Arts and CraftsThe place to talk about stick figure avatars, graphic design, fan art, or any application of the visual arts and creative writing--or just to show off your latest masterwork!
18.03.2013: ...and the abovementioned overhaul never happened. Chronic case of lazybones. Just check the last page first and go through the rest if you want to see the progress, okay?
So, some of you may have seen my work in the Arts & Crafts Showcase thread. Since then i have gotten my hands on some better materials and feel like starting a thread for my work. Here we go:
Here are some more pictures, both of the finished figurine & WiP pics:
Pictures of the finished figurine:
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The figurine is ~15 cm tall, and was crafted from air-hardening modelling clay in two phases, 1.)the main figurine & 2.) the third eye.
So, comments/critique ? I am trying to decide whether to make figurines of other characters, Touhou & not, so if there is some character you would like to see a figurine of, chime in .
Huh, the face could use more work, but other than that pretty impressive. (I presume that's purely dough?)
Almost, there is a florist's wire framework inside:
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1st rule of clay-like materials: they don't support their own weight. Ever . The wire is also responsible for the weird pose, as i misjudged the leg lenghts a bit. but other than that, yes, purely modelling clay.
As for the face, well yeah. Deciding to simply paint it on at the end was a mistake, i'll have to practice making faces .
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Originally Posted by Dr.Epic
Not bad. Wish I knew the character you were making. The face looks a little rough. Still good though.
Um, the links after the first two pics? Precisely for that purpose .
Though it was not made after any specific picture in particular, as it is rather hard to find good and consistent reference pictures for touhou characters.
In this case i believe there is no source on where the vein going over her left shoulder is supposed to go, so i set it at the lower back.
This was also my first time working with this particular brand of modelling clay, so there were a couple of learning experiences* on the way .
Also, i'll add some info to the main post.
edit: *specifically, the stuff i used is much, much lighter than common clay, so it can support itself much better. I had initially assumed i'd need wire-frame for the fingers and the eye-veins, but those turned out to be unnecessary. Detrimental, in fact. Also, most similar materials are hard to reattach after separation, which turned out to not be the case here.
This was also my first time working with this particular brand of modelling clay, so there were a couple of learning experiences on the way .
Also, i'll add some info to the main post.
I have a book somewhere about making miniature clay figures. If I can find it, I'll give you the title.
First things first, a thank you to Domochevsky, Dr.Epic, Cogwheel and Associate for the positive feedback .
Updatewise, i'm looking to make a new figurine every two weeks or so. One weekend to build and another to paint. With an overwhelming majority of the suggestions (1/1) , the next one will be Suwako Moriya, from Touhou. I've already started working on it and will probably have it built sometime tomorrow. If there is interest in pics of the unpainted figurine, let me know*.
Also, the next one after Suwako is still undecided, so if anyone has a suggestion, post away !
I'd prefer Anime-style characters as i want to practice the style, but if you'd rather see a dragon,
a dragon is fine too .
Also, these are technically not 'new' but here are some pics of the figurine i use for my avatar:
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It was made from the left-overs from the first one, as i can't really leave air-drying clay laying about.
And yes, it is Touhourelated as well , specifically a chibification of the character in the second pic, Keine Kamishirasawa.
*Though i feel it's worth pointing out that the paintjob is what makes or breaks(eyes) the final figurine, so an unpainted one can be a bit lackluster.
It's awesome. I'd really like to make some figurine as well. What kind of clay do you use again? since it's air drying, do you really have to work very fast? and what's about its consistency when it's finished, I mean, can you actually say... use it as a mini for your game for example?
Thats quite a few questions you have there.
But thanks . I'm a bit busy at the moment, but expect an extensive answer to be edited into this post within 1,5 h or so. There is a reason i picked this name, you see.
Edit:Alright, 'ere we go. Spoilered for lenght:
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Originally Posted by Fri
What kind of clay do you use again?
Buh, i went and obscured the label with the wire .
I used Ebenhard Faber's Air Drying clay:
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but i suppose any light clay would handle similarly.
Like i said, I actually haven't worked with the this stuff much. Satori was my first foray with it.
It heavily subverts most of the limits of common clay, but chances are there is some drawback i have yet to stumble upon .
I made a spare hand to test its limits with actually:
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As you can see, you can saw, file and whittle it, sort of like very soft wood. The fingers on that are approximately 2mm thick, but have to be bent rather forcibly to snap them,
though once it gives, it cracks. I have tossed it at the wooden floor from a height of ~1,5m, so unless you have some strange gaming habits, it should survive use as a mini.
Though i haven't tossed a painted piece at the ground, i can barely imagine the case ever coming up .
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Originally Posted by Fri
since it's air drying, do you really have to work very fast?
The air drying is something to keep in mind, yes. Generally, finish a section before moving onwards, since once its dry that's pretty much it. If there is a strange angle or some other flaw, it will be a pain to fix afterwards.
It can be kept pliable by regularly applying water to it, and this particular mass allows sticking fresh mass to already dried mass, as long as both surfaces are wet.
Though i'm not 100% sure on how well that works out, Suwako is going to be my test dummy for that actually.
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Originally Posted by Fri
I'd really like to make some figurine as well
Now, how much experience you have with clay/similar? What sort of figurine do you have in mind?
Though im not sure if im the best person to ask for tips, my methods were often at odds with the teachers ideas back in Arts class.
Still, i recommend you get yourself some mass of the non-drying variety and fiddle around with it a bit. I like to 'sketch' my works out first, see if its feasible before i pop open the perma-drying stuff. Besides, if i did everything from perma-mass, id be swimming in them figurines by now .
As far as use as gaming minis goes though, that depends heavily on scale. Patchy here* is ~7,5cm high, and about as small as i can go before i start to lose detail something severe. So for most tabletop games, stuff like giants, golems**, dragons, maybe mecha.
Those are doable for me. As i suck at knifework. Patchy there was made 100% by hand.
So for anything smaller than that, i have no clue
*Yay for a better camera & non-blurry pics :
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Now, if i hadn't taken a pic with the hat off, would you know how much of a mess the hair is underneath ? Also applies to the Taokaka i posted in Arts & Crafts showcase, underneath the coat's collar, her neck is a mess.
**Here's something i made a while back, when i hadn't even considered posting stuff online. Excuse the dust :
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So livin' up to (hopefully only the latter part of) my name?
Further questions are very much welcome , it's good to see such enthusiasm and interest. Lets me ramble on about what i know .
Edit2: Ach, missed my mark by about 1h ? Terribly sorry about that. In my defense though, new pics!
They are a bit rushed, but i need to know if taking this approach would allow me to leave the Uncanny Valley without further casualties, or if im just digging myself in deeper .
The one on the right seems quite alright to me at least. But im biased anyway .
I really like the figurine you said you never considered putting on the internet (dusty, etc). It just plain cool. Personally I think the couple non-human ones look best. Of course that makes perfect sense.
We see human's every day and we subconsciously know every little detail of what a human looks like. Thus it is a lot easier to find flaws in replicas of humans, whether that be a painting sculpture, etc.
In comparison if you make some sort of made up creature, nobody will criticize the little details because we don't know what those details would actually be. Do you know how big a chimera's eyes are?
So I guess what I'm saying is that your doing quite a good job considering the challenge your faced with. Keep it up.
We see human's every day and we subconsciously know every little detail of what a human looks like. Thus it is a lot easier to find flaws in replicas of humans, whether that be a painting sculpture, etc.
In comparison if you make some sort of made up creature, nobody will criticize the little details because we don't know what those details would actually be. Do you know how big a chimera's eyes are?
Quoted for much truth.
The human face is the main factor in whether the art is good or not. The same goes for hands really. Disjointed fingers are a good way to ruin an otherwise perfectly good work .
Thats why i am trying to pick subjects where i can't just bypass those issues.
Practice makes perfect, afterall .
If i bypass them, i can do some nifty stuff, as Jean-Eric Ville'n from the Dark Knights guild PR department is here to help me illustrate :
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Took me about 1h 15min to make, so there are some visible seams and flaws like on the right side bracer. Its ~10cm tall, 12 at the tips of the horns.
Thank you, It was really helpful. I'll try to get myself on some clay after I finish my current assignment.
Actually in my opinion, to leave uncanny valley, you should try to stylize more, not try to be more realistic. Make it more cartoonish, make it over the top, things like that. Sure, you could try to make things more realistic, but it's what actually make things fall into uncanny valley.
Actually in my opinion, to leave uncanny valley, you should try to stylize more, not try to be more realistic. Make it more cartoonish, make it over the top, things like that. Sure, you could try to make things more realistic, but it's what actually make things fall into uncanny valley.
Yeah, its a frustratingly fine line to walk. While leaving the face featureless and painting XD on it would be worth a few s, it doesn't do such a good job on more serious figurines .
But something like making the eyes taller, the pupils/iris larger and the head in general a bit bigger might achieve the desired effect ?
Also, took a look at your art. Nice. Do you mind if i do a sketch figurine based on it at some point in the future? Specifically, im thinking Grey Fowl from page 1 in a fight-scene/faceoff with something suitably eldritch-horrory.
Or do you have plans of your own for that ?
Edit: One more thing (/uncle), i could do some step-by-step pic series about how i do stuff, if there is any interest.
Like How-to-make-a-d00d-inna-trenchcoat and stuff. Anyone interested in that?
Yeah, its a frustratingly fine line to walk. While leaving the face featureless and painting XD on it would be worth a few s, it doesn't do such a good job on more serious figurines .
But something like making the eyes taller, the pupils/iris larger and the head in general a bit bigger might achieve the desired effect ?
Something like that I guess, but I won't know since I haven't tried it. But I think guides on how to stylize things/make cartoony drawings would work here too.
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Also, took a look at your art. Nice. Do you mind if i do a sketch figurine based on it at some point in the future? Specifically, im thinking Grey Fowl from page 1 in a fight-scene/faceoff with something suitably eldritch-horrory.
Or do you have plans of your own for that ?
Of course not
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Edit: One more thing (/uncle), i could do some step-by-step pic series about how i do stuff, if there is any interest.
Like How-to-make-a-d00d-inna-trenchcoat and stuff. Anyone interested in that?
Great. I'll see about getting the first series made & up around monday/tuesday.
I still have to finish Suwako today, shes otherwise done but the Headless Horseman impression of hers is getting old .
If it turns out okay-looking even unpainted, i might put up pics in this post, but no promises.
Edit:Alrighty then, here you go:
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The angle of the pic is purposefully obscuring the face , as i feel it needs to be painted first.
Still i'm happy with how the proportions and pose turned out . The fact that she is balanced enough to not need propping up is nice too.
A dynamic "I'mma kick your ass!" battle-stance is much more interesting than the neutral standing pose Satori has.
So yeah, whoever was the poor fool to piss off both Suwako and her Hat is in for some pain .
Edit: added a second pic, as the first one doen't convey the pose all that well and makes her look kinda fat at the waist .
Edit2: links for reference. Yes, another Touhou character. http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Suwako <- wiki on character, main reference. http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=...view&id=490042 <- used as reference. http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=...view&id=485170 <- used as reference.
I see what you mean now. The legs were the first thing made, and the knees seemed to be a bit too low, so i bulked them up upwards which caused the sideways bloat you can see on the right knee of the 2nd pic.
I filed it down, so it should look more natural now, though new pics aren't an option at the moment. Tomorrow maybe. What else is off about the knees?
Also, yeah Suwako is child-like in stature, i added links to the post to the pics i used for reference.
that's amazing. Dynamic pose is really the next step for any art after you get fairly satisfied with your basic. And I didn't actually notice the ball-ish knee before he pointed it :p.
Can't wait to see it colored. What paint do you use again?
I use Games Workshop's/Citadel's paints. The thing is, i wouldn't actually recommend them . I use them because i'm familiar with them and know how they work from painting ~300+ miniatures with them. GW likes to charge through the nose for their paints .
I'd say anything used to paint models/miniatures would do a fine job. One thing that is sorta needed beyond basic colors is a premade fleshcolor. It is SO much easier to just adjust one with white/black than to mix it from scratch each and every time. So google for some mini-painting guides and see what they recommend, maybe ask the guys at the Warhammer painting thread.
Remember the pic-series-thingy? Here we go (spoilered for lenght):
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When i'm making something without a wire frame, i generally start with a relatively uniform lump of mass like this. Any seams, airpockets, errant dog biscuits and other inconsistencies need to be worked out at this point, or they will haunt you afterwards. There is a reason clay is beaten silly before it is worked .
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Now since i'm going for a humanoid, i divide the mass into two equal proportions down the middle. It is advised to keep the mass in one piece as much as possible. Trying to connect two pieces of an arm at the elbow will just have them fall apart at the most inopportune moment. Generally, if it is supposed to support any weight whatsoever (including its own), don't try to split & connect.
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Now i divide the lower portion into two portions for the legs. I do this by simply pushing it thinner at the middle, so that the mass moves apart to the sides. This allows it to stay connected on the inside.
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Next up, arms & head are divided into from the upper upper portion. This is a good point to estimate whether there is enough mass for all limbs, as adding any later won't work. If there is insufficient mass, either add mass to the lump in the first step, or scale the plans down a bit and reproportion the mass.
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Excess mass however is not an issue, as it can be simply pushed onto an extremity and
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snipped off. Now i work out the legs:
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The left one had about the right amount of mass reserved for it, so the right one gets a serious case of Clown's Foot and
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SNIP it goes. The bulkiness above the knee was meant to represent baggy trousers later on, but was covered by the coat. Oh well.
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I took a moment here to give this guy the generic GruntFace(tm). It wont dazzle anyone with the detail, but it is good enough when facial features aren't the aim of the practice. The eyebrows are surprisingly expressive, though.
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Moving on to the actual coat. The thing is, there is no coat . Just a bunch of borders and seams masquerading as one. No big secret there, though?
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The sleeves are created by takiing a piece of mass, making a string out of it and pressing the string flat into a strip. This is then wrapped around the arm and smoothed over from one side onto the arm.
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I've marked the arm with a knife to show where the seam is. Hard to tell otherwise if it is properly done, no?
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The same technique works for boots, collars etc., pretty much any border of clothing where one part goes over the other.
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Now i'm no longer sure if he is doing car maintenance or gearing up for an elvis impersonation . So lets get him the long coattail that defines the outfit:
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Again with the same type of technique as used on the sleeves, though with loose-hanging parts like capes & such it is important to make them quite a bit longer than the hanging portion, so as to have the attached portion divide the weight over a larger area.
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With the coattail made and a sheet added to connect the coattails to the collar, our generic Grunt is ready to go get his ass kicked by the Action-Hero-of-the-Week or catch an artillery shell with his face. Genre-dependant, really:
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So, in the interest of making this more helpful, any suggestions/questions?
The same principles apply to pretty much anything with limbs,wings, etc. An european-styled dragon would have a maybe 2-1 or 3-1 front-back split, depending on the wings and the tail.
The proportions of the division depend on whether the final fig would be top(the golem)/bottom(a centaur) heavy.
The only thing this fails me on are spiders. Getting the legs to be thin enough to look right, as well as strong enough to support the body .
I'll probably have time for another series sometime next week, so suggestions for the subject are very much welcome.
Also, i'd like to remind everyone that a new 'main' figurine gets started on friday 15th, so i'd like some suggestion for that by then .
IMO fruits are like the football of arts: 'heres a ball, go chase it around the field' / 'heres a bunch of bananas, draw a pic of it.' It's only interesting if you already like sports/art, but does a poor job of inspiring people to exercise/draw. /idle musings
Alright, this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncoherentEssay
Grey Fowl in a fight-scene/faceoff with something suitably eldritch-horrory.
Its up. The original idea snowballed a bit (avalanched, one could say), but turned out to be an interesting experiment. Here we go:
It hasn't finished it's coffee, so we won't bother it further for now.
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"Twenty long, cold years in this forsaken city..."
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"Twenty years idling for this hat. All worth it, though."
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Guest appearence: Hapless Bystander (deceased)
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***Blood-curling scream***
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Dashing to the rescue, Grey Fowl rounds the corner and...
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...
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...
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*winds back*
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*toss*
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*Block*, *thud*
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"This..."
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"This...is..."
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"This!"
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"Is!"
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"Unforgivable!"
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*Theme Music Powerup*
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*Wittily-Titled PAWNCH!*
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*Sneaky Thrust Kick*
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*Over-the-Top Finisher*
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*Didn't stand a chance...*
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"Alas, poor nameless civilian! If only i had ben here in time..."
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"hmm....?"
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...
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Afterword:
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A pseudo-black&white superhero movie spoof? Sure, why not ! It's not high art, but it was fun to make. Fun fact: Grey Fowls head was the same throughout, but he went through 4 bodies from posing wear&tear. I had a flash of insight, as the head is the most recognizable part and thus the easiest one to spot inconsistancies on, i decided to keep it around. It also made the final frame possible .
I considered putting the text in as subtitles in the pics, but decided against it, as the risk of beeing too cheesy/not cheesy enough is rather high . If someone feels like doing an alternate-dialogue version of it, feel free to sub them in.
The original idea was to have a frog-perspective "holy cow, that thing is huge*" shot of the monster, with Fowl in the foreground to show that, yes it is big. This was to be followed up by a "i'mma fight it anyway" frame leading into a PAWNCH frame.
However, making something big enough AND capable of supporting itself turned out unfeasible . I had to pick the angles for the supporting arms pretty carefully as it was.
So then i decided to lenghten the intro by showing a victim. Then i got the idea to frame it like a movie, which led to the full intro. Avalach'd is an apt decription of the process, really.
Something that got cut out in the planning was a few blooper frames, like whiffing an attack, stopping to catch a breather and tripping over. The third was almost caught on camera though, as Fowl toppled backwards through the scenery when i was taking the axekick picture . I felt that the 'Incompetence' scenes would be out of place and would dilute the delicious Cheese & Ham .
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I see the hat as more of a 'might as well not let it go to waste' case, though with no view of its contents, alien brainslugs aren't exactly out of the question .
Besides, i can't stay mad at the hat, the numerous RAEGstorms hats have caused in the Team Fortress 2 playerbase have been simply delightful to observe, and i don't even play the game . Hats are serious business, afterall .
Oh, right. Heres a pic of the inspiration for the monster: Guardian of Xel'lotath
from a semi-obscure Gamecube horror game Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem.
So yeah, not an original creation, just tribute to one of my favorite games.
I recommend looking up an LP on youtube to anyone who likes eldritch horrors.
Edit: *fixed a hilarious typo.
Edit2: Also, anyone else feel like like chiming in? Comments/critique/requests?
Alright, since the 'open vote' doesn't provoke much response, here's what i'll do.
Recognize this guy?
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Notification: this is a 1,5 h 'sketch' figurine.
If you think he deserves a full detailed-and-painted figurine to be made of him, post a 'yes' or something that amounts to it.
If you have no idea who the hell this guy is, i'm sure you can find a fellow poster willing to tell you out there .
If he gets, say, 5 votes 'yes', he's up next on friday 15th. Otherwise, i'll pick something else. (1/5) So, voting doesn't work .
Suggestions are still welcome, and will be up for later weekends .
I see the hat as more of a 'might as well not let it go to waste' case, though with no view of its contents, alien brainslugs aren't exactly out of the question .
Besides, i can't stay mad at the hat, the numerous RAEGstorms hats have caused in the Team Fortress 2 playerbase have been simply delightful to observe, and i don't even play the game . Hats are serious business, afterall .
I know, it was tongue in cheek :p
And on the suwako one, Nice! And really well done details as well. Well..except for the face, it's kinda scary. Here's my suggestion that might be able to salvage it a bit. What if you paint some rather bold eyeline on eyes. You know what I mean? And lose the nose a bit, Manga style isn't really big on nose (pun really unintended).
And it's not really squeaky, if you know again what I mean. Can you finish it more or it's the medium's weakness? I remember back then when I do gipsum and clay they always ask us to sandpaper it like crazy until it's squeaky. Do you use base paint?
From what I see on your works, I'm starting to think that face might be too much of a bother in this medium. I think it might be better if you do minimal things on face. I mean, just make the general form of the head, and paint the face rather than sculpt it.
I know . Best jokes are those that are batted back & forth a dozen times, so that any poor fellow to walk onto the scene is utterly baffled by whatever is going on. A complex discussion on the role our head-wear overlords play in modern ethics would be just the ticket.
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Originally Posted by Fri
... face ...
Ah, yes my eternal nemesis. Still, its better than Satori's, right? Right ? I'll see if outlining the eyes with darker shade of skin helps any.
Edit: and now i'm really dissapointed with myself .
What's wrong with the eyes?
No reflections, that's what. Thats why they look so utterly soulless and dead, not even a mandatory spot of white. Seriously, how did it take me this long to notice ? I'll have to grab some shiny varnish or something for it at some point. Here we go:
Old:
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New:
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What really gets me is how this should have been obvious if i actually looked AT the eyes of the refence pics, instead of just their shape and size in proportion to the head .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri
And lose the nose a bit, Manga style isn't really big on nose (pun really unintended)
The nose is almost as small as it goes, though. I'll have to try to make it smaller or maybe even go without entirely. I still have some leftover mass to practice with, though i'll have to go grab more for the next figurine.
Or i could make Akagi next .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri
And it's not really squeaky.
That would be the tiny seams on the hat, right? It's partially a weakness, though one that can be worked with. Fixing the seams by filling them in tends to create new ones at the edges you see. Since Suwako was made over a much longer time period than Satori, it has more 'layers'. Sandpapering could remove the seam, but also risks exposing an older one. Paint also has a nasty tendency to highlight seams, crevices and other blemishes .
It would be very helful if you could list any visible seams from the pictures . Scratch that, i'll just focus on final polish on the next one. It was a bit unreasonable a request.
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Originally Posted by Fri
...paint the face rather than sculpt it...
Satori.
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Originally Posted by Fri
And more kamina is always good.
Only 4 more to go then.
Edit: and some new content :
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Originally, i was thinking of just posting it by itself in a new post, but the joke would be maybe a bit too meta, potentially even spam if it's not funny enough.
The troll is modeled after Runequest trolls, with their snout-like noses. RQ was my introduction to RPs, and i like their troll design.
You can blame it on that link .
A bit slimmer and sleeker in design than the inspiration*. Still not sure if it looks all that much like a mecha.
*The linked video showcases a mecha-ization of the Touhou character Utsuho Reuji made from Gundam mecha miniatures. I'm stupid enough to try to build something similar from scratch at some future point, this sketch is sort-of testing whether it's a reasonable goal to aim for .
I also have something i made after i got sick of making those disembodied practice heads:
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Oh hey, moar Touhou. Who'd have guessed ? Patchouli Knowledge making her second appearence, still not as a full figurine. Made from the leftover materials from Suwako.
Still, nobody has made any other suggestions, and Touhou forces me to practice faces(eyes), hands, hair and overcomplex clothing.
All things i have little experience with, so it's good practice .
IMO the eyes are looking a bit better, though making them more of a 'rounded-square' in shape would probably help.
I keep the hats separate from the figurines, so shenanigans can be had:
Edit: noted and applied . No more subspoilers from now on. I just have some semi-compulsive organizing tendencies .
Edit2: I just realised there's pretty much nothing in the pics to give you guys a sense of scale. The height doesn't really tell much, not everyone keeps a tapemeasure handy. So here's Patchy in my palm. Her head is about the same size as the others, so that should give a good idea of their size.
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*Mandatory "It's too dangerous to go alone, take this!" joke here*
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? I am trying to decide whether to make figurines of other characters, Touhou & not, so if there is some character you would like to see a figurine of, chime in 
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. The wire is also responsible for the weird pose, as i misjudged the leg lenghts a bit. but other than that, yes, purely modelling clay.
, specifically a chibification of the character in the second pic, 
? Also applies to the Taokaka i posted in Arts & Crafts showcase, underneath the coat's collar, her neck is a mess. 
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