The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment

[blackjack217]

Okay I guess we can leave that up to whoever makes the cr 1 monster (if we make one). Also does the Word Archon use true-naming? Because if it does...

[Eldan]

Doesn't mean it has to suck.

Or we could just keep the name and give it "Word of..." spells.

[blackjack217]

I thought the true naming mechanic itself was horribly broken.

[The Tygre]

Right. So I guess as project... manager? Task master, maybe? Whatever. I've got a rough sketch for a syllabus;

Mission Statement: The goal of the Gates of Heaven project is to provide extensive and detailed information on the Seven Heavens of Celestia and its residents. We strive to do so with quality and respect to material both old and new.

Contents:

The Seven Heavens
The History of Heaven
Heaven as it stands
- Lunia
- Mercuria
- Venya
- Solania
- Mertion
- Jovar
- Chronias
Within each will be detailed;
* Residents
* Geography
* Notable locations
* Information on the ruler
* What the plane represents
* Other notable features
Eldan has already set up an excellent template with his introduction to Lunia.

The Hebdomad
The History of the Hebdomad
The Hebdomad as it stands
- Barachiel
- Domiel
- Erathaol
- Pistis Sophia
- Raziel
- Sealitel
- Zaphkiel
Each member will be dealt with individually, detailing;
* Personal history
* Appearance
* Domains/Fortresses/Realms/What have you
* Servants
* Personality/Mind-set/Etc.
* Servants
* Rivals/Enemies
* Allies
* Maybe a plot hook at the end?
Sir Chivalry on Barchiel

The Powers
Organized by their masters

The High Castes
- Principalities
- Authorities
- Virtues
- Dominions
- Crowns
The Archon High Castes by Iamyourking

The Archons
- Archon society
- Life cycle
- History not correspondent with Heaven or the Hebdomad
- New archons/ Variant archons
- Relations with other outsiders
- Rebels, outcasts, and the fallen
- Asuras
- Influence and actions on the material plane

For DMs
- Celestia in your campaign
- New monsters (non-archon celestial residents)
- What celestia is and what it means
- Plot hooks
- NPCs

For Players
- Classes (New bases, PrCs, and variants)
- Feats
- Spells
- Equipment
- Races
The Blessed Soul/Celestial Warlock by blackjack 217

What do you guys think so far? Most of the stuff towards to bottom could probably be cut. I say we need to focus on Heaven, the Hebdomad, and the archons first and foremost.

For a general feel of what we're looking for, enjoy this fine, inspirational literature;
Gates of Hell
Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead

[Eldan]

I think there's plenty of player material already, so we should mostly focus on actually getting heaven some fluff.

I also asked the Planewalker people for help, there's a few gigantic infodumps there I'll have to work through this week.

Edit: I think I should just link it here. As usual, Rip dug up some great stuff:
http://www.planewalker.com/forum/lunia-more-information

[Iamyourking]

The Asuras probably don't warrant their own section, they can just get a mention in the section for revised Archons. Also, I didn't see my project in there; where does it fit in?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Originally Posted by blackjack217

Okay I guess we can leave that up to whoever makes the cr 1 monster (if we make one). Also does the Word Archon use true-naming? Because if it does...

One of its versions will; just like there are seven lantern archons, I'm planning for multiple word archons.

[The Tygre]

Originally Posted by Iamyourking

The Asuras probably don't warrant their own section, they can just get a mention in the section for revised Archons. Also, I didn't see my project in there; where does it fit in?

The Archon High Castes? Personally, I'd put them in with Powers and Principalities section, but if you like we can put them in the Archons general section.

[Iamyourking]

Ok, I got the false impression that the Powers section was for non-Hebdomad unique archons in a similar fashion to the Dukes of Hell; obviously my High Castes wouldn't fit in there or the general Archon section.

[blackjack217]

Pair'O Dice we have some stuff up now can you update the first post to reflect this?

[Sir_Chivalry]

Here's the fluff.

Expanded Barachiel Fluff [The Gates of Heaven]

[blackjack217]

ignore this post

[The Tygre]

Originally Posted by Iamyourking

Ok, I got the false impression that the Powers section was for non-Hebdomad unique archons in a similar fashion to the Dukes of Hell; obviously my High Castes wouldn't fit in there or the general Archon section.

Quite right, and that was what I meant by the Powers. My impression was that High Archons were like the Dark Ministry in GoH; powerful individuals, but not quite unique. We could place the High Castes between the Principalities and the non-uniques, maybe?

Also, we might want to look into editing in an index post for threads and projects on the first page somewhere.

[Iamyourking]

The Principalities are the lowest of the High Castes; I had the hierarchy envisioned as Common Archons, High Castes (Principalities, Authorities, Virtues, Dominions, Crowns), Powers (In this case being the leaders of the High Castes and top lieutenants to the Hebdomad), the Hebdomad.

[The Tygre]

Okay, so the Hierarchy is;

The Hebdomad
The Powers
The High Castes (w/sub-divisions)

Nice, clean three sections to divvy up. We have the High Castes follow the Powers.

[blackjack217]

Where do the champions fit in?

[Iamyourking]

They would be either be part of one of the Hebdomad's staff or with the common Archons. You should probably keep in mind that the "champions" given in the BoED are not actually very powerful and that many of those who have some glimmer of strength are Angels and therefore not part of the hierarchy at all.

Which reminds me, what is our stance on LG angels? My original plan put Solars, Planetars, and Throne Archons on roughly the same stratum of power, with eligibility to earn promotion to Principalities, and Astral Devas on par with Trumpet Archons.

[Jaerc]

In the next week or so I'll try to get a post up postulation some of my overarching thoughts about Celestia and adding insight from my understanding of the Dicefreaks Cosmos' and Planescape's veiws take on Lawful Good.

In the meantime I'm open to answering questions, and minor (under 500 words) writing assignments of all stripes.

Though I am up to my eyeballs in personal and freelance design projects, I'd like to step into an advisory position for this project if that suits The Tygre. My most relevant Celestial credential is writing for A Light From On High.

[The Tygre]

More than enough of a credential. I could always use an extra hand.

[Jaerc]

Where should I start? And is there a post somewhere with links to all the Gates of Heaven threads yet?

[Iamyourking]

So far we have:
the Hebdomad: Here
The important non-unique Archons: Here
The Blessed Soul, a celestial version of the warlock: Here
and Lunia: Here

If you want mechanics, the important Archons and the Blessed Soul are the place to go. Otherwise, try the Hebdomad or Lunia.

[Eldan]

Okay, before we go on, I'd like some help deciding which Archons mainly belong where in the hierarchy and on which layer, so I can include them in the write-ups of the relevant planes.

Between Lunia and the Outside: Trumpets, since they are messengers, often go outside and are associated with Barachiel, the ruler of the first layer.
On Lunia: Lantern Archons: I'll connect the Lanterns to the stars of Lunia in my Lunia fluff.
Between Lunia and Mercuria: Here, we need some kind of first-line defender. Warden Archons, if nothing better comes up.
On Mercuria: Hound Archons. They are a good fit for Domiel.
Between Mercuria and Venya: ?
On Venya: Word Archons? Earathol is the clearest caster of the Hebdomad, so I guess throwing the caster archons here fits.
Between Venya and Solania: Owl Archons? Both Ascetic and Seer are connected to Wisdom, which Owls symbolize
On Solania: No Archon really says "Asceticism" to me.
Between Solania and Mertion: ?
Mertion: Swords or Justice Archons, see below
Between Mertion and Jovar: Sword Archons, if Justice Archons go one level down.
Jovar: Warden Archons are a good fit for Sealtiel, but they also make good first line defenders on Lunia.
Between Jovar and Chronias: Throne Archons? They are the highest caste, so they could easily get the highest level.

All canonical archons I know are assigned. We need at least four more types.

Wikipedia mentions a "Justice Archon" and a "Hammer Archon", both of which I don't know. The Justice Archon might be a very good fit for Raziel.

[hamishspence]

Yup- Justice Archons are relatively low-powered, winged, humanoid, and a little overzealous. They favour the paladin class.

Hammer Archons are associated with dwarves and stone.

In Psionic Power there is also a psionic archon- might with a little refluffing fit the ascetic?

[Eldan]

A Psionic archon is an interesting idea, at least. It fits asceticism well, and yet I'm not aware of any other psionic outsider. It clashes a little with the theme normally given to them, and yet seems a good idea.

I'm writing up a little more Lunia fluff at the moment.

[hamishspence]

It may have been designed to be the LG counterpart to the Cerebrilith demon in Expanded Psionics Handbook.

[Selah]

Hi,

Since almost everyone reading this doesn't know me, a brief introduction. I'm one of the 'old bloods' from Dicefreaks (pretty sure that was how we were referred to early in this thread).

Not that it should matter at all, but I'm not here to try and stop this project. :) Nor am I here to try to direct it. In my more active years, I was one of the three main authors of the Gates of Hell, and I was the project director of A Light from on High while it was active. Unfortunately, as I've gotten older and family has come along, I've simply lost the time and inclination to do the same level of work I once did.

I've dropped in to let you know that I'm happy to act as a consultant (to some extent) if that is wanted. If it isn't, that's fine too. I certainly don't believe you need my help to do a great job.

So let me know, one way or the other.

[Eldan]

Nice to hear that!

Well, you most likely have more experience with these projects than most of us do, so any advice would be very welcome. I must say, though, that I never really looked into A Light from on High, so maybe I should do that for inspiration...

[blackjack217]

So many new people. cool!

[Selah]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Nice to hear that!

Well, you most likely have more experience with these projects than most of us do, so any advice would be very welcome. I must say, though, that I never really looked into A Light from on High, so maybe I should do that for inspiration...

Well, ALfoH was never close to being finished. And, from what I've read so far here, I doubt that the cosmological changes being considered would be used in this.

As an example: archons, eladrin and angels were all combined into a single race of angels, and angels were split into seven choirs. While this affected more than just the Celestia you are considering, I figured it was a good example of the large changes the project considered.

Oh, and the Virtues of Heaven were designated in DF cosmology as the rulers of Celestia. They were beings of similar power to the Lords of the Nine, with overall lordship going to an avatar of the Supreme Virtue. As in Hell, that avatar was not understood to be an avatar, nor was the Supreme Virtue actually known of by most.

There's a little bit of stuff posted at DF relating to the ALfoH project that might be worth mining for information.
The fall of Eblis (talks about Metatron in the story below)

The old kerubim template (Duke of Hell equivalent)

The old seraphim template (arch-devil equivalent)

Unity of Light (article regarding the creation of solars and the lesser choirs of angels - also discusses the sefirot, who would be an equivalent of the malefircarim creatures used in Gates of Hell - i.e.ancient Baatorians equivalent)


Merkabah cherubim (NG equivalent of ancient baatorian; could be adapted or used as inspiration)

Q&A: Who Rules the Heavens? (has names and portfolios that DF would have used for the rulers of Celestia, plus others)


Some kerubim names and titles as potential inspiration

The Celestial Compact (the opposite of the Blood War)


Also, look up each of the layer names in this index.

Let me know what questions you have, if any.

[Eldan]

Ah, yes. That seems like the kind of change I wouldn't agree to.

Or rather, I would fight anyone tooth and nail who would claim that my beloved Eladrin belong to the same kind of creature as those stick-up-the-behind Archons.