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Old 08-10-2011, 08:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #331
Saintheart
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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Node Magic sounds sweet. If the spells available have to be thematically linked, and you want to have them fit with the Thornwaste badlands where the lion fortress is located, you could work in Wall of Sand (is it 3rd or lower?), maybe Fireball, perhaps some enervation or dessication-related spells?
The wording of Champions of Ruin is actually RAW wide enough that as a DM you could just about put anything in there: it says the spells granted by nodes are "usually" linked by "theme", like "undead" or "darkness", so you could do just about anything if you wanted to come up with a convoluted theme or justification. But as far as I can see, it's utterly unrestricted. I sort of went with a "illusion/your eyes deceive you" kind of theme, and so I've picked Blood Wind, Glitterdust and Displacement. Wall of Sand is druid 4, which I think is the lowest level you can get it, and that one's on my spell list already. The Archivist handbook should be your first stop if you take this option, mostly because the node turns you into a limited archivist on these functions.

Remember, too: if you make the node class 4, you get 4 spells of 4th level or lower. And so on: class 5 for 5 spells of 5th level or lower. Going to a class 6 node (which CoR does say has never been discovered, but theoretically exists) surely has to be as high as the Ghostlord could ever need: adding 6th-level sorcerer/wizard spells to the druid spell list is just insane against an 8-9th level party, even before you get to the fact the node then allows you several metamagic feats piled on top of one another without having to spend a single high level slot. Consider a Maximised Fell Drain'd magic missile cast out of level one druid slots. That's the level of insanity you get to.

To be honest, I've actually hit the point where I think I can pull my punches somewhat: class 3 node allows you, as a 12th level caster and assuming you've got Maximise Spell (or, as in my campaign, a houserule that allows you to emulate feats on spending an action point) then you can cast Maximised Flame Strike at ECL 15 out of fourth level spell slots: 90 hitpoints of damage, which against a level 8 (as my characters are) party is potential for a TPK.

EDIT: Also, if it weren't already apparent, the RHOD Handbook now comes with imagey goodness and captions of pithiness! (Thtop teathing, I wath born with thith... )

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Old 08-10-2011, 10:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #332
Saintheart
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Double post, but I also had another thought which I'd open for discussion, related to how to keep the party from fighting the Ghostlord at all. Call it "the good guy option":

This is still a half-formed idea at present, but another option for the whole scene is to add a further twist by making the Ghostlord a reformed lich with a Chaotic Good alignment (or even possibly a Lawful Neutral alignment).

Zarl under this story has well and truly suffered: he did enjoy being a lich at first, even creating some of the undead that now inhabit the stone lion -- but came to regret it as he realised what he'd lost, what he'd become, and what he'd done. Therefore his mission changed: he would not trouble the world anymore, but remain in seclusion and contemplation on his sins.

Rather than the stone lion being his home of ultimate evil, it is a fortress built to secure one thing: the Heart of the Lion, which Zarl knows will be used for great evil if it's removed. Zarl therefore has become the Heart of the Lion's guardian; it is his atonement for his dark deeds over his life. The undead he commands are to protect the artifact, not himself as such. He's become fairly addled as a result: he will not allow evil clerics near the artifact, but neither will he allow a good or neutral cleric to try and destroy the artifact, because he is still serving his penitence to the nature gods. The party offering to destroy him also doesn't appeal since it would end his guard over the artifact prematurely. He's been given to know by the gods that when the diseased tree in his chambers blooms and lives again, his curse will be lifted and his watch over the artifact will end.

This worked until the Red Hand stole his phylactery. He was given the ultimate in Hobson's Choice: either make us a few undead and get your phylactery back, or watch us destroy it, and thus you, and then take the Heart of the Lion for us to make it ourselves. Zarl therefore is close to completing his work for the Hand.

This might well prevent a good-aligned party fighting him, since his purposes are noble and he is, in fact, a slave to the Red Hand, not even a semi-willing participant.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #333
ka_bna
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

That sounds like a nice trick, I might use that in my campaign. It changes the setting from "bad guy in dungeon" to "poor fellow with big powers suffering from responsibility".
By giving him a shot at redemption, and by letting the party know the artifact will be destroyed in the end, no rational party would want to destroy him, except for XP.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #334
AlexanderRM
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Hi there, I've been running Red Hand of Doom for my group, and it's been going... OK?... thus far. I'm interested in continuing with something after this in the same universe, mostly in the interest of maintaining continuity (which my group has been *awful* at thus far, we've gone through a ton of setting resets and arbitrary character swaps).

I've been thinking of running a planar adventure, mostly because I recently got the Planar Handbook and a lot of this stuff sounds *awesome*, but we'd also be about the right level to start it, and it could roughly match up with the end of RHoD and continuing to fight Tiamat (maybe the boundaries between planes could only be fully restored by going to the other end of the portal and sealing it there as well, and for some reason the PCs have to go to some other places before doing that?).

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd strongly prefer to do a published adventure rather than having to write my own, mostly because school is just about to start and I really will not have the time to write one. If there are any good planar adventures out there (even if they have nothing at all to do with fighting Tiamat), or really anything that's good for continuing on from the Red Hand of Doom, that'd be quite helpful.
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Old 08-27-2011, 08:13 AM   Top  -  End  -  #335
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

There's a little section on this at the end of the Handbook, but, in short: Expedition to the Demonweb Pits sounds just what you're looking for. You want planes? How about Sigil as your home base of operations? I've heard some good things about this as a nice segue from RHOD, especially if you go with an ending of "the planar rift implodes and you all find yourselves ... somewhere..."
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #336
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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There's a little section on this at the end of the Handbook, but, in short: Expedition to the Demonweb Pits sounds just what you're looking for. You want planes? How about Sigil as your home base of operations? I've heard some good things about this as a nice segue from RHOD, especially if you go with an ending of "the planar rift implodes and you all find yourselves ... somewhere..."
Does sound fitting, but after looking for downloads today I noticed one tiny problem- it's for levels 9-12, while RHoD is either for 5-10 or 6-12, depending on which source you look at (the encounters certainly wind up consistently around CR 12; our party is already ECL 8-9 with the Ghostlord's lair almost finished, with the exception of the Ghostlord). Depending on which one of them it winds up as, the PCs might enter the adventure at the appropriate level for the final encounters.

Can anyone say what level the RHoD adventure will actually tend to end at, or if not, any recommendations on upping it in power or on any other planar adventures that would fit?
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #337
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Major Plot Question (What's a DM to do):

My group is in Rhest. Their alignment is mostly Neutral with a few Good members. I figure they will win the battle pretty easily, and grab the phylactery.

I know for a fact they try try to destroy it the round they find it! It is the kind of thing they will do. I don't know how to handle the situation if that happens. What should I do about the Ghostlord?
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #338
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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Originally Posted by monkey3 View Post
Major Plot Question (What's a DM to do):

My group is in Rhest. Their alignment is mostly Neutral with a few Good members. I figure they will win the battle pretty easily, and grab the phylactery.

I know for a fact they try try to destroy it the round they find it! It is the kind of thing they will do. I don't know how to handle the situation if that happens. What should I do about the Ghostlord?
Do they understand that it's being used to blackmail a lich into throwing, essentially, an entire other army into the fight?

You could reinforce this with some information in Rhest that details how they're going to get reinforcements from the ghost lord such that just ganking him wouldn't remove them from the battle, if you really want them to try to work the getting him to stop helping the horde angle.

Disguising the nature of the phylactery initially, so that it's a magical curio at first might be necessary to further leverage that.

Additionally, if they're the type that might try it on, if you haven't set phylacteries in too much stone in your setting, you could make it so that possessing/using/wearing one would allow one to feel any powerful emotional states that the lich was experiencing. And fear/anxiety and the weird feeling of mortality may also be enough to get them to realize that it's an angle they can play.

Otherwise, if they're going to be dead set on ganking the ghost lord anyway, you could have it be that he's a load bearing boss and the control and/or existence of the forces he's sent to the Red Hand depend upon his or the heart of the lion's continued existence.

So they may have to deal with some berserk ghost lions and bone drinkers on their way back to civilization and for a bit afterward, but at least those things won't be actively aiding the horde.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #339
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Wow, still keeping up with this thing. Now that's a good OP. This post assumes the DM does responsible things like include the dirty handbook fixes.

I didn't read all of the OP, but about the optimizing party of 8 or 9 thing ... rather than redo all this why not:

1. half the starting ECL and xp gain (so ECL 3 ending around 10)
2. double all monster numbers and statics values: (HD, HP, initiative, speed, AC, Grapple, damage, reach, special qualities' numbers, saves, stats discluding their ripple effects, skills, spell DCs, spells slots, etc) except where it would cause difficulty for the DM (space, spell known, highest level cast, inventory, feats, etc)

A quick calculation of the first battle revealed that ECL 3 for a party of 8 or 9 sounds about right, since all encounters should be 'overpowering.'

I'm curious about your thoughts of the quick fix against a fairly optimized large par
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #340
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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Originally Posted by AlexanderRM
Can anyone say what level the RHoD adventure will actually tend to end at, or if not, any recommendations on upping it in power or on any other planar adventures that would fit?
Really depends where you start the party at. Start them at level 6 and barring shenanigans they should be around 11 when it finishes. Start them at 5 and they should finish around 10. If you need them to gain a couple of levels before they start the next phase, appear an overly generous DM and just handwave it that "you spend the next few months cleaning up the Red Hand with the armies of Brindol, and gain another level and WBL in the process." Done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey3
My group is in Rhest. Their alignment is mostly Neutral with a few Good members. I figure they will win the battle pretty easily, and grab the phylactery.

I know for a fact they try try to destroy it the round they find it! It is the kind of thing they will do. I don't know how to handle the situation if that happens. What should I do about the Ghostlord?
Coidzor's suggestions are good. One thought is to change the note from Ulwai to something a bit more of a clue by four -- imply that the Ghostlord is really only helping them because he's being forced to, as he's a reformed lich. That might stop the phylactery-smashers in the party or it might not.

If all else fails, look at the consequences. It's not that catastrophic to the Vale at large. On the RHOD text, the Ghostlord throwing in with the Red Hand has the following consequences:
(1) The players can't earn 5 VP.
(2) There'll be a fourth wave -- the bonedrinkers -- in the Streets of Blood encounter.
(3) They'll be facing the Ghostlord and Kharn together in the climax of the Battle of Brindol.

Item (1) can be easily mitigated. If the party's been doing all the right things thus far, they won't be far off the 40 required VP for victory at Brindol (in fact, on my campaign, once the party breaks the alliance between Zarl and the Red Hand, they theoretically don't need to kill anything other than Kharn -- they've got their 40 points.) But 5 VP's nothing considering how Brindol itself is going to be a target-rich environment: Abithriax, Skather, putting out fires, and killing Kharn well and truly compensate for not breaking the alliance. And this doesn't take into account the VPs available from double-tapping Ulwai and/or Varanthian themselves.

Item (2) only makes the Streets of Blood encounter a bit harder. If they've done the right things at Rhest they won't be facing greenspawn razorfiends, and on open ground, especially with a cleric, lesser bonedrinkers ain't impressing anybody -- particularly when you consider that by this point in the adventure the party will have gotten a level or two on where they were "supposed" to encounter the little buggers.

Item (3) is the issue that needs most consideration. But even then it only takes 5 minutes of thought. If your objective is to have the party win against Zarl, the easiest solution is to run the RHOD Ghostlord as written when he's at Brindol. Don't pump him up as suggested in my handbook. He's much more likely to get vaporised that way. Remember, this is not an undead druid the party would be facing, it's an undead blighter. Blighters suck as druid PrCs -- no summoning, in particular -- and being a lich only increases the suck because you no longer have to target him with strikes that get through his natural armor or armor -- you only need touch attacks while using a Healing Belt to do him damage, or indeed the Staff of Life to blast him down to 1 HP. And that's without even considering the mindblowing array of undead-unfriendly spells like the Light of Venya line that clerics get easy access to.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:55 AM   Top  -  End  -  #341
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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Wow, still keeping up with this thing. Now that's a good OP. This post assumes the DM does responsible things like include the dirty handbook fixes.

I didn't read all of the OP, but about the optimizing party of 8 or 9 thing ... rather than redo all this why not:

1. half the starting ECL and xp gain (so ECL 3 ending around 10)
2. double all monster numbers and statics values: (HD, HP, initiative, speed, AC, Grapple, damage, reach, special qualities' numbers, saves, stats discluding their ripple effects, skills, spell DCs, spells slots, etc) except where it would cause difficulty for the DM (space, spell known, highest level cast, inventory, feats, etc)

A quick calculation of the first battle revealed that ECL 3 for a party of 8 or 9 sounds about right, since all encounters should be 'overpowering.'

I'm curious about your thoughts of the quick fix against a fairly optimized large par
If the assumption here is to double all the monster numbers, as in 6 hobgoblins in a fight rather than 3, then that's one thing.

If the assumption is to simply double all their stats, I don't know that it would necessarily make a difference, though I'd be interested to see the result. The reason being that 3.5 is subtitled "Caster Edition". When you have a party of 8 or 9 which includes more than one caster of either divine or arcane type, they can control the fight even if it involves large numbers. I don't put a lot of stock in ECL and CRs any more, WOTC's calculations are so wacky in some instances it's better to just eyeball it. Once a caster finds a good option -- "Just hit again and again with Glitterdust" -- then he can keep on doing that while his fellow casters go to more impressive stuff "Holy Smite! Holy Smite! Holy Smite!"

Another point to raise is that if you basically Zerg Rush the party with mass numbers of opponents, you take the risk of mainlining XP to the party because the challenge ratings of the encounters are raised. Hobgoblins aren't CR 1/4 kobolds, they're 1/2 or more. This means the party levels up faster and they outstrip the level structure of the module in any event. You also double the booty after each fight: most of it will be vendor trash, but one masterwork weapon will still net you 150 gp at a major settlement, and there's a lot of masterwork weapons out here. Your players melting down the Zerg's short swords +1 to build ever-more-powerful magical weaponry and equipment is a very real possibility if you're not going to be a total bastard towards the players on purchase of equipment.

Solo monsters are still screwed in this scenario, too. Raising saves does address this to some extent, but in those instances the party simply shifts to defending its casters and large-magazine spell options like sorceror. And raising saves, absent SR, also doesn't do a lot to spells like Downdraft which are save-and-still-suck. It also doesn't help big solo monsters because with 8-9 players they're hopelessly outclassed on the action economy. Your players don't even have to wait for a spell to be cast in that instance; if they're in large numbers and they're optimised, a party of 8-9 is perfectly capable of dishing out 100-150+ damage in one round -- ubercharging is a very big component of this sort of damage count at these levels. The train is already pretty difficult to stop, and as your clerics and mages close in on level 10 and fifth level spells it just rolls faster and faster.

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Old 08-31-2011, 09:41 AM   Top  -  End  -  #342
monkey3
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try to give more hints as to the usefulness of the phylactery as a diplomatic tool. Given this group of people, I am giving it a 90% of them destroying the thing. My next worry is what to do if they go off to kill the Ghostlord. Clearly he is not meant as an opponent, and TPK is on the horizon...
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #343
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Wouldn't really help with the loot issue, but it seems like ad-hoc or chapter-based leveling/XP would be the only way to keep things right level-wise. And IIRC, it does at least lend itself fairly well to a few places as natural level-up points for that kind of treatment.

But considering the nature of the module, unless they've got an artificer with a dedicated wright in a hole working on things, the only place they're going to be able to get anything is right before the battle of brindol, and maybe on their way to Rhest.

So having a lot of vendor trash loot and going above WBL isn't necessarily going to result in power creep.

Depends a lot on the players and the nature of item availability though, I'll admit.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #344
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

I meant both options (1 and 2).

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with mass numbers of opponents, you take the risk of mainlining XP to the party because the challenge ratings of the encounters are raised. Hobgoblins aren't CR 1/4 kobolds, they're 1/2 or more. This means the party levels up faster and they outstrip the level structure of the module in any event. You also double the booty after each fight
I was assuming rough WBL but double the treasure for double the players seems about right and
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half the starting ECL and xp gain
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Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
Solo monsters are still screwed in this scenario, too. Raising saves does address this to some extent, but in those instances the party simply shifts to defending its casters and large-magazine spell options like sorceror. And raising saves, absent SR, also doesn't do a lot to spells like Downdraft which are save-and-still-suck.
Downdraft is less a problem because (assuming a fail) the monster is only half as effected (x2 hp). If these buff forces wizard -> sorc and cleric -> favored soul, then this is a good thing.

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It also doesn't help big solo monsters because with 8-9 players they're hopelessly outclassed on the action economy. Your players don't even have to wait for a spell to be cast in that instance; if they're in large numbers and they're optimised, a party of 8-9 is perfectly capable of dishing out 100-150+ damage in one round -- ubercharging is a very big component of this sort of damage count at these levels. The train is already pretty difficult to stop, and as your clerics and mages close in on level 10 and fifth level spells it just rolls faster and faster.
I am aware of all points but I'm not sure how it means the buffs given are unable to handle the increase in players. After all chargers would be a problem even if it is 4 players with no changes. Also remember that players would have to manage those combos at otherwise half the usual ECL. Chargers are still doable low level, but consider the ease of the arms race for the DM vs the player. Same goes for higher level spells even moreso (4 players with 4th level spells > 8 players with 2nd level s
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #345
AlexanderRM
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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Really depends where you start the party at. Start them at level 6 and barring shenanigans they should be around 11 when it finishes. Start them at 5 and they should finish around 10. If you need them to gain a couple of levels before they start the next phase, appear an overly generous DM and just handwave it that "you spend the next few months cleaning up the Red Hand with the armies of Brindol, and gain another level and WBL in the process." Done.
Hmm. That advice is fine for gaining levels, but the party is supposed to start EttDP at level 9- when they'll end RHoD at level 11 (and there are only 3 PCs, so it might even wind up at 12th level), so I'll need to actually lower their level. I'd have to either hit them with some negative energy (which would be unpredictable b/c of the fortitude saves) and then prevent them from getting access to Greater Restoration (which would be easily available in Sigil, among other places) for several months so they can't get cured, or to kill each PC twice. Neither of those will reduce their WBL as much, either.

Hmm... that made me think though, what if I energy drained them, and got them to go to Sigil to get it restored, then (through DM fiat making Greater Restoration harder to do, or maybe these lost levels are really special) the only NPC they can find to do it makes them do a quest hook before he restores them? And that quest hook either lasts the whole adventure, or for some other reason they can't get their levels restored until they finish the adventure? I really like that idea.
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Though, unfortunately one of my PCs is saying he'd still really rather not go back to 9th level after getting to 11th, regardless of the means, which I suppose I can understand, so it would really be good to find another way to do this, or another adventure or something.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:56 AM   Top  -  End  -  #346
Saintheart
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

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I meant both options (1 and 2).

I was assuming rough WBL but double the treasure for double the players seems about right and

Downdraft is less a problem because (assuming a fail) the monster is only half as effected (x2 hp). If these buff forces wizard -> sorc and cleric -> favored soul, then this is a good thing.

I am aware of all points but I'm not sure how it means the buffs given are unable to handle the increase in players. After all chargers would be a problem even if it is 4 players with no changes. Also remember that players would have to manage those combos at otherwise half the usual ECL. Chargers are still doable low level, but consider the ease of the arms race for the DM vs the player. Same goes for higher level spells even moreso (4 players with 4th level spells > 8 players with 2nd level s
I'm not trying to shoot down the idea, and it does sound like it's worth a try. At the very least you could walk into the Marauder Attack at the start of the campaign with this approach and see how the party fares. If they get steamrolled, you know you're going too hard.

I'm only pessimistic about it, I guess, because of the experience with 8 players on "as expected" RHOD levels. It's basically two parties' worth of resources at once, except economies of scale start to kick in since a single party only has one arcane source of debuffery available while two parties' worth of players results in two arcane spells per round: it raises the effectiveness of casters by an exponential degree.

The other thing to bear in mind is that doubling the hitpoint total does allow the monster to survive double the period of time it otherwise would, but that still gives you two rounds of fighting rather than one. Unless the solo monsters have a credible way to repel and prevent contact with multiple melee opponents reliably and impede their movement or options all on one initiative count, a party of 8-9 players is still going to lay out multiples of ten in hitpoint damage per round. A big solo monster might lay out one attacker in a round, but if he's got four opponents laying out similar damage at once that's still 75% of the group's effectiveness getting through his defences. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:25 AM   Top  -  End  -  #347
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Well, there's always coming up with some nifty words to hang in the air after killing part of a god and then getting blasted by the death throes, and them, say, being blasted back in time by several weeks rather than erased from existence or some other way to explain them being deleveled in an exotic means that would require them to do a bit more than the standard greater restoration.

Or have them level drained and blasted into the future.

Both of those would require good delivery and/or handle player checks though, I imagine.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:38 AM   Top  -  End  -  #348
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Greetings,
I've just completed the Red Hand of Doom module with my group, and I've created a series of extra roleplaying events throughout the adventure. And I thought I could share it with you guys.

I ran a modification of this module with a group of 16-19 Level Characters, so I'm not going to post the entire conversion. This is rather some parts of the adventure I found boring or insufficient, and remade or fleshed out.

The first part is when the party is visiting Starsong Hill, and gets to make a performance check to earn the respect of the elves. I thought this was a bit dull, so I created a system for making the performance a bit more interesting. I told the group the rules together then gave them 30min to each prepare their own "show".

Tiri Kitor Performance

Spoiler


The second part is preparing Brindol for war. The adventure provided a detailed map of the city as well as descriptions of various interesting sites in Brindol. So I took the liberty of creating a lot of mini-quests associated with many of these locations (Use the Brindol Map).

The Calm Before the Storm

Spoiler



The third part is during the War Council in Brindol, I found this part very dull, and almost a copy of the meeting in Drellin's Ferry. I decided to change the entire thing into a more strategical concept. I also decided to add a few allies that the PCs managed to get for the war. (Some of which are from earlier adventures, these should of course be changed to fit those of your own party).

A few of the entries here in this and the next part refers to some of my PCs and their allies, so I'm going to name them so that you can easily change them to fit your own campaign.

PC: Daren Dresden (Human, Beguiler/Mind Bender)
PC: Sarah Dariah (Human, Duskblade/Cleric)
PC: Alderon Zeul (Human, Crusader)
PC: Tyronne Ryn (Half-Elf, Rogue)
PC: Mudd (Half-Orc, Barbarian)
NPC: Rualiss (Eladrin, from the King of the Trollhaunt adventure)
NPC: Silverwing/Argentum Alarum (Silver Dragon, from my mod of WPM)
NPC: King Blam (Kobold king, from the Silver Skeleton adventure)
NPC: Melina Prisius (Ruler of the entire Elsir Vale, from Manifesting, a Tale)
NPC: Eludecia (Succubus Paladin, from the Silver Skeleton adventure)
NPC: Aisaphra (Marilith Demon, from the the Silver Skeleton adventure)

Deployment

Spoiler


The fourth part is actually in very strong union with the fifth part. The fourth part still takes place at the war council, where the PCs get to team up with NPCs to form battle squads, this is an attempt to put the PCs in focus a bit like sergeants in the fight. Each one the leader of a highly specialized squad of fighters, taking on special missions (described in the fifth part), and then finally teaming up again for the final fight against Kharn.

Combat Tactics

Spoiler



The fifth part is an upgraded version of the battle of Brindol, where the different companies take on missions around the city. This part assumes that the battle has begun and that each PC is linked through a telepathic bond (Rary's Telepathic Bond, or similiar) with Lord Jaarmath, who administrates everything in the battle. The battle is divided into serveral "Levels" to help put a timeline of the battle, and make the PCs end up together for the final battle. This part also includes suggested soundtracks for every mission, "status reports" from Lord Jaarmath after every Level, as well as a few text to help build the battle like atmosphere.

The Final Stand


Spoiler



The sixth and final part is an upgrade of the Victory Points system.

Victory?

Spoiler

Last edited by SL1 : 09-04-2011 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #349
Saintheart
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

That's one beautiful piece of work, SL1. I would be very proud to start incorporating elements, if not its entirety, into the RHOD handbook.
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #350
SL1
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Thanks. I hope it will inspire or give some DM ideas for their own group. I've made quite a few "upgrades" to adventures, because normally I'm not happy with the standard ones, and I feel that if you want to run a serious RP Group you need to be satisfied with the adventures. Either way, if you got any questions, or need help with anything, you can just give me a PM.
Also feel free to check out our forum:http://battlebrothers.se/forum/index.php

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Old 09-08-2011, 11:06 AM   Top  -  End  -  #351
Jair Barik
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Hmmm
At the moment I am thinking of how to restat Ozzy.
At the moment I'm thinking of adding a level of wizard (transmuter) on top of him, swapping out a potion for a scroll of scintillating scales and dropping the familiar for the abrupt jaunt class feature. For feats he will get an extra one for 12HD and I am thinking probably metabreaths. Now this way he gets some casting without having to go large and a panic button in case things get hairy from the get go. Finally one of the options I was thinking is that I might give him improved grapple and its prerequisite feat. If the players do go to the air to wail on him in melee rather than legging it he will attempt to grapple a threatening PC and then nose dive into the bottom of the gorge leaving it till the last moment before escaping the grapple/feather falling himself.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:24 AM   Top  -  End  -  #352
Saintheart
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More detailed thoughts later, but: Practiced Spellcaster for a start. Level of wizard means he gets a CL 5 or better, which is going to be handy if he's engaging in direct debuff action. Having him be able to cast Dispel Magic via scroll would be handy, too, simply to scare up the party that reliably goes to the air via Fly spells and the like.

Second, options that address the deficit in the action economy. Whether he's Large, Medium, or Small, he's a solo monster that doesn't hide behind his buddies. That means the party will focus fire on him or hit him with save-or-lose-oh-hey-you-lose-anyway spells.

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Old 09-08-2011, 11:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #353
Jair Barik
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Was thinking practiced spellcaster but then it occured to me that most spells he'd be using it would just up the duration on (mage armour and resistance are the main ones that come to mind). He gets a boost to his will save from the class. If the party proves to be very optimised and slaughtering things up to that point I may up him to wizard lvl 3 in which case some baleful transposition could be funny by having him cling to the side of the bridge and attempt to drop a PC down the gorge. Action economy I don't think I will go giving him ridiculous extra actions but by focusing on some buffs to his breath/debuffs caused by his breathe weapon that should mix things up a little.
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Old 09-08-2011, 06:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #354
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My suggestion is to simply advance ozzy by 1 age category. One issue I have with the dragons in general is that they seem quite anemic fighters, more content to engage in hit-and-run tactics than engage the PCs directly. Not say this is not effective, but kinda wimpy, IMO.

The young version is just cr5, and hardly expected to be a decent challenge for a group of PCs who should be at least lv6 by the time they encounter it.

This bumps him up to large (though at cr8, the cr bump seems quite dramatic), and nabs him 1st lv spells, though I am not sure how useful that would be.

I dunno, if still too weak, maybe tack on a template like fiendish?
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Old 09-08-2011, 06:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #355
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it does sound like it's worth a try.
You are trying to be fair and so will I.

On the economy of scale, the only thing to worry about is resource pooling for crafting. It is a legitimate concern, but so is crafting anyways :) Perhaps an extremely coordinated eight player party might be able to better cover their bases, but if they do that kudos to them. I'd allow it.

On the action economy its still 1 for 1 (since the single monster battles now have 2 such monsters) except where AOE kicks in. Make sure the extra numbers aren't clumped too h
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #356
Saintheart
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You are trying to be fair and so will I.

On the economy of scale, the only thing to worry about is resource pooling for crafting. It is a legitimate concern, but so is crafting anyways :) Perhaps an extremely coordinated eight player party might be able to better cover their bases, but if they do that kudos to them. I'd allow it.

On the action economy its still 1 for 1 (since the single monster battles now have 2 such monsters) except where AOE kicks in. Make sure the extra numbers aren't clumped too h
Fair points. The only observation I'd make for the single monster battles having 2 rather than 1 is that you still have a deficit in the action economy since notionally 4 players take on 1 target while the other 4 take on the second target. That's the problem with solo monsters: even with a default size party, they're outgunned on the action economy by a margin of 4 to 1.

It also occurs that it's not easy to control how many players take on one target at a time. Rationally a party of 8 should be using all of their abilities on one target at a time rather than split into two groups of 4 and fighting both monsters at the same time. If they focus their fire as a party of 8, they could take one (say) dragon down in the first round. They might have a party member critically injured or killed, but rationally there'll still be 7 standing to stabilise or outright heal, following which they focus their fire on the second dragon, again likely bringing it down in a round or so on sheer damage output. In two parties of 4 a loss of one person is a loss of 25% of their options or damage output. In short: given the choice, the advice "don't split the party" is perfectly rational (from an economic and mathematical standpoint.)

Again, just observations. Hopefully they'll assist in defining your tactics; as far as I can see nobody's really done what you're proposing to do, which means at the very worst it could provide another option for people to follow. Let us know what the results are?
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #357
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My suggestion is to simply advance ozzy by 1 age category. One issue I have with the dragons in general is that they seem quite anemic fighters, more content to engage in hit-and-run tactics than engage the PCs directly. Not say this is not effective, but kinda wimpy, IMO.

The young version is just cr5, and hardly expected to be a decent challenge for a group of PCs who should be at least lv6 by the time they encounter it.

This bumps him up to large (though at cr8, the cr bump seems quite dramatic), and nabs him 1st lv spells, though I am not sure how useful that would be.

I dunno, if still too weak, maybe tack on a template like fiendish?
Armchair quarterbacking, but I think they're designed as piddling weak to account for inexperienced parties. I'm pretty agnostic on CRs anyway, especially given some of the hilarious analyses done on the forums regarding the supposed CRs of some MM 2 creatures. Even at large size, Ozy's still a big solo monster who doesn't have a lot of cover or options to work with other than closing to range and breathing. I actually wonder whether a level in sorcerer is a better way to go; he's not really meant to be versatile outside one fight, and being able to spam Blood Wind at least means he doesn't have to come down to melee range in order to thump people.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #358
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Armchair quarterbacking, but I think they're designed as piddling weak to account for inexperienced parties. I'm pretty agnostic on CRs anyway, especially given some of the hilarious analyses done on the forums regarding the supposed CRs of some MM 2 creatures. Even at large size, Ozy's still a big solo monster who doesn't have a lot of cover or options to work with other than closing to range and breathing. I actually wonder whether a level in sorcerer is a better way to go; he's not really meant to be versatile outside one fight, and being able to spam Blood Wind at least means he doesn't have to come down to melee range in order to thump people.
As I understand it, many adventures like this out of the box are for not just inexperienced parties but also new DMs. I pretty much started with this adventure myself, and ran it out of the box for a new party, and whomped them. several times over, though never to an actual tpk.

also, IIRC ozzyrandion(this is the green one, right?) is not solo, but has a couple hounds and something like 10 goblins to reinforce him with archery support(as listed, I'm sure people tweak this since archery sucks).
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #359
Saintheart
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As I understand it, many adventures like this out of the box are for not just inexperienced parties but also new DMs. I pretty much started with this adventure myself, and ran it out of the box for a new party, and whomped them. several times over, though never to an actual tpk.

also, IIRC ozzyrandion(this is the green one, right?) is not solo, but has a couple hounds and something like 10 goblins to reinforce him with archery support(as listed, I'm sure people tweak this since archery sucks).
True on all counts, but when it comes to Ozy, the fact he's more or less ordered on the text to strafe the party with a breath weapon and he's a lot faster in movement means he winds up presenting a big flying target to the party. The hobgoblins would be more meaningful if he stayed behind them and cast or something, but as it is, they don't block the party from hitting him and, as you say, archery doesn't provide substantial interdiction to make it worth the party staying back in the trees. (In fact if they do stay in the trees they're more effective against Ozy since they then get bonuses to their Reflex saves from the cover, thus weakening the effectiveness of Ozy's breath weapon.)

Horses for courses, though. RHOD's okay if everyone's relatively new to D&D and they don't know how to optimise or harness the game's mathematics from a tactical perspective. It's trying to make the monsters sterner stuff that this handbook is about.
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:21 AM   Top  -  End  -  #360
Zilter
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Default Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!

Heyooo, I'm just about to start up another RHoD now. You may recall I told you about this some months ago. Doesn't matter. I can't remember what I said either. Anyway, I'm going to tell you a bit about it now, whether you care or not. :)

The characters have been made, and they are:

Half-Orc Barbarian 6
Elf Sorceror 6
Human Monk 5/Drunken Master 1
Whisper Gnome Rogue 6
Gnome Druid 6
Dwarf Paladin 6

Everyone except the paladin are completely new to the game. Having new players is much fun, because they usually think outside the box.
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