General Exalted Discussion: There's a God for that! Except for Sorcery, of course.

[Jokasti]

If you don't know what Exalted is, get it, play it, cherish it, love it, PbP it, and marry it. You can ask questions here. Here are some good quotes. There are better ones, but I can't find them right now.
If you do know Exalted, this is a place for, as you may or may not have gleaned from the title, General Exalted Discussion. Discuss the Dawn Solution, current recruiting games, the upcoming Sidereals errata book, or the societal implications of Yozis in modern-day American culture, or whatever, man.

[The Rose Dragon]

I hate the Ebon Dragon.

You know why I hate the Ebon Dragon? Because his descriptions are consistently at odds with each other. He is often written as the ultimate villain and the most magnificent bastard of all Yozi Realm (which should obviously be Szoreny and not the Sol-damned Shadow of All Things), when his powers are those of a classical antihero. He is a coward, he lacks virtue, he has no motivation or grand goal other than to get out of jail where he's, comparatively speaking, been only for about a week. Those make him the antithesis of a hero, not the opposition of one. Heroes should be opposed by villains, not antiheroes, and Ebon Dragon is the greatest antihero and loser in the setting.

And when he is portrayed as this all-knowing all-successful beast who you should bow down and start worshiping because he is just that good, I die a little inside out of sheer rage.

Thankfully, they have stopped portraying him so, but still.

[Kyeudo]

The Ebon Dragon's Charm Set as it exists was written to mimic the Solar Larceny Tree for a group of anti-heroes. It's not a very good representation of who the Ebon Dragon should be (they are okay, as he is the Shadow of All Things), but all the further Charms (namely the Ink Monkeys material) I've seen for him don't feel quite right for someone who is supposed to be the ultimate bastard out there.

He's the Ebon Dragon, master of temptations. He's supposed to find the darkest desire of your heart, offer it to you if you'll only betray the things you love most dearly, convince you that he'll most certainly come through on the deal, then leave you crying on the floor when he walks away and leaves you with nothing but the terrible realization that your unmaking was ultimately your own hand, your fall the result of your own weakness.

Yes, he is also the mustache-twirling villain, but people forget that in those old westerns, the mustache twirling villain didn't steal the family farm. He bought it from you. Sure, he forced you into poverty by poisoning the cattle and blighting the crops, but there wasn't a gun to your head when you signed the deal. Now, when he carries off the love interest and ties her to the railroad tracks just to mess with the hero, that's a different story, but people seems to think it perfectly alright for the Ebon Dragon to have mind control Charms. How can he practice his hobby of turning people into their own worst nightmares if they can just write it off as "It wasn't me doing it! It wasn't my fault!"

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon

I hate the Ebon Dragon.

Ah, I see you've figured out the point, then. No one is supposed to like the Ebon Dragon. I would say anyone who supposedly "Likes" the Ebon Dragon is either lying about it to be contrary or just doesn't get it.

He's a bit like Shinji from Evangelion. The entire point of his existence as a character, even outside the game itself, is to be hated. He embodies everything you shouldn't want to be. Even the most blackhearted villain looks at him and goes "Wow, you're a pathetic and disgusting creature."

And yet, just like Shinji, he has crazy phenomenal power, which really drives the hatred home.

I think they did a good job portraying him that way.

[The Rose Dragon]

Originally Posted by Xefas

Ah, I see you've figured out the point, then. No one is supposed to like the Ebon Dragon. I would say anyone who supposedly "Likes" the Ebon Dragon is either lying about it to be contrary or just doesn't get it.

I don't hate the Ebon Dragon as a character, though. I hate him as a storytelling device. He is just badly written for what he is supposed to be.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon

I don't hate the Ebon Dragon as a character, though. I hate him as a storytelling device. He is just badly written for what he is supposed to be.

What he's supposed to be isn't a magnificent bastard. He's just supposed to be "A bastard". Just look at his act of villainy for reducing Infernal limit. He blesses you for forcing someone into a marriage in which they're unhappy.

Wow.

That's something that's probably not going to help you out. It's not a tiny puzzle piece in a grander scheme. It's not subtle manipulation that will eventually pay off in a big way. It's just making an insignificant person unhappy for the rest of their life. It's not madness or bloodrage or anything, it's just a moderate misery that will grate on that person and make life unpleasant for them and those around them.

That is what the Ebon Dragon is. He's evil in the most pathetic and inglorious way possible. And I think he's fabulously written in that respect. I'm glad they did that instead of just another hyper-intelligent grandiose magnificent bastard villain, of which there are plenty now in every kind of fiction.

[Kyeudo]

Originally Posted by Xefas

He's a bit like Shinji from Evangelion. The entire point of his existence as a character, even outside the game itself, is to be hated. He embodies everything you shouldn't want to be. Even the most blackhearted villain looks at him and goes "Wow, you're a pathetic and disgusting creature."

I actually like Shinji. He's a deep character, mostly incapacitated by his severe issues with his father and with being close to anyone, yet he has a core of strength that is worthy of Solar Exaltation whenever it comes out. If only his childhood had been different, who knows how awesome he could have become.

The Ebon Dragon, however, doesn't have a redeeming feature. He is spineless, cowardly, fickle, and uncaring. He is the antithesis of Virtue. He is inhumanly smart, capable, and dangerous, yet he applies these traits equally to random acts of petty spite and grand schemes that results in the downfall of nations. In a way, he is everything that an Exalt strives not to be.

The Ebon Dragon does good only by accident. He can be said to be the architect of his own destruction, as he is currently trapped in Malfeas because he insisted upon the creation of the Unconquered Sun and the gifting of mortals and gods alike with free will. He gave seemingly good reasons for both, but in the end his only motivation for doing so was so he could have someone to oppose and someone to corrupt.

[The Rose Dragon]

Also, Jokasti told me to post a link to my recruitment thread here.

So, link.

It's called the Scarlet Dawn and it's about the celestial bodies suddenly turning crimson after one Calibration and the Scarlet Empress returning two weeks later, and the implications thereof.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Kyeudo

He's the Ebon Dragon, master of temptations. He's supposed to find the darkest desire of your heart, offer it to you if you'll only betray the things you love most dearly, convince you that he'll most certainly come through on the deal, then leave you crying on the floor when he walks away and leaves you with nothing but the terrible realization that your unmaking was ultimately your own hand, your fall the result of your own weakness.

Well that's just bad design. I mean, there's only so many people whose deepest darkest desires being fulfilled wouldn't be invalidated if they had to kill those they loved most.

I mean, seriously, if your deepest, darkest desire is, say, to try out something inventive with your girlfriend, it's kinda self-defeating to kill her in order to do so.

So that necessitates that his power is actually to make you an idiot.

Which, actually... would make him a badass relative to everyone else in the setting.

[Toptomcat]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Well that's just bad design. I mean, there's only so many people whose deepest darkest desires being fulfilled wouldn't be invalidated if they had to kill those they loved most.

I mean, seriously, if your deepest, darkest desire is, say, to try out something inventive with your girlfriend, it's kinda self-defeating to kill her in order to do so.

So that necessitates that his power is actually to make you an idiot.

Which, actually... would make him a badass relative to everyone else in the setting.

You lack imagination. The ideal Ebon Dragon thing to do here is not to *kill* your girlfriend, which would be of little use in tempting you and would reduce the possible total misery in the situation by a factor of two. It would be to give you the ability to convince your girlfriend to try out your inventive thing and not tell you that it's actually a mind-control power of the worst sort that's specifically designed to ensure that there's a tiny part of her looking out from deep inside of her and hating you for compelling her to do it.
Or, rather more crudely, to promise you a love potion and give you Rohypnol.

[Morph Bark]

So far, my tabletop RPGs have been extremely limited: 3.5, Star Wars Saga Edition and 4E. Once my DnD group gets a little tighter and more into roleplaying together, I hope we can expand to other games sometime, and Exalted is certainly at the top of the list, closely followed by games like Vampire and the related ones, and Call of Cthulhu.

Looking through those quotes in the OP´s link though... perhaps I should first go with Call of Cthulhu and then Exalted, slowly upping the scale.

[FelixG]

The game won me over when one of the first things it tells you to watch to "get into the mood" as it were is Kung Fu Hustle! I love that movie!

Also i love playing robots so, alchemicals are right up my ally.

[Delusion]

Currently only able to ST this, but I am looking Graceful wicked masques book and playing fairfolk is looking reaaally interesting.

But I wonder if they are able to survive in solar game since they seem to lack defensive charms that work outside the wyld.

[Rhyvurg]

They may be the possibly weakest celestial level exalt, but Alchemicals are just awesome. Solars can fly, sure. But Alchemicals get rocket boots. Or, if you don't take the charm tree that far, they can double jump. And I can't stress enough how useful their no-muss no-fuss telekinesis charm is. Their beam weapons do need motes to activate, but they have a number of advantages over their mundane counterparts. Alchemicals are your go-to guys for the Star Wars fanboy in all of us. Also, Thousandfold Courtesan Calculations and Hyperdexterous Tentacle Apparatus. That is all.

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by M-Bark

So far, my tabletop RPGs have been extremely limited: 3.5, Star Wars Saga Edition and 4E. Once my DnD group gets a little tighter and more into roleplaying together, I hope we can expand to other games sometime, and Exalted is certainly at the top of the list, closely followed by games like Vampire and the related ones, and Call of Cthulhu.

Looking through those quotes in the OP´s link though... perhaps I should first go with Call of Cthulhu and then Exalted, slowly upping the scale.

Nah... Exalted first.

Remember, they're very different games. CoC is horror.

...it's hard to run a horror campaign in Exalted when you have perfect defenses.

[Drascin]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Well that's just bad design. I mean, there's only so many people whose deepest darkest desires being fulfilled wouldn't be invalidated if they had to kill those they loved most.

I mean, seriously, if your deepest, darkest desire is, say, to try out something inventive with your girlfriend, it's kinda self-defeating to kill her in order to do so.

So that necessitates that his power is actually to make you an idiot.

Which, actually... would make him a badass relative to everyone else in the setting.

This is a game where basic mental stability costs a lot more, points wise, than a fully equipped mecha. There's not going to be a shortage of shortsighted idiots for ol' Ebony to take advantage of .

[The Rose Dragon]

Originally Posted by Drascin

This is a game where basic mental stability costs a lot more, points wise, than a fully equipped mecha. There's not going to be a shortage of shortsighted idiots for ol' Ebony to take advantage of .

Because as we all know, no mentally stable man would ever build a functional warstrider.

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by Drascin

This is a game where basic mental stability costs a lot more, points wise, than a fully equipped mecha. There's not going to be a shortage of shortsighted idiots for ol' Ebony to take advantage of .

[Rhyvurg]

Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon

Because as we all know, no mentally stable man would ever build a functional warstrider.

Of course not, that way lies madness.

[Jokasti]

Originally Posted by horngeek

Nah... Exalted first.

Remember, they're very different games. CoC is horror.

...it's hard to run a horror campaign in Exalted when you have perfect defenses.

Play mortals in Gem and then tell me Exalted isn't a horror game.

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by Jokasti

Play mortals in Gem and then tell me Exalted isn't a horror game.

Well, apart from that.

Originally Posted by Rhyvurg

Of course not, that way lies madness.

<.<
>.>

Given that Lookshy uses warstriders quite a bit, I feel justified in doing this.

Spoiler

{{For those who don't get it, Lookshy is often said to be the Creation equivalent of... well. The image says it, really.}}

[The Rose Dragon]

Originally Posted by Jokasti

Play mortals in Gem and then tell me Exalted isn't a horror game.

Ah, Gem. It is such a shame you never survive. You have all sorts of cool stuff, and people still want to destroy you anyway.

[Rhyvurg]

Trashing Gem is like the hobby of the exalted. I swear, every game I play in, as soon as we get a little XP and travel becomes fast and easy, we always end up in Gem, and it gets blow'd up.

[Gametime]

Originally Posted by Kyeudo

I actually like Shinji. He's a deep character, mostly incapacitated by his severe issues with his father and with being close to anyone, yet he has a core of strength that is worthy of Solar Exaltation whenever it comes out. If only his childhood had been different, who knows how awesome he could have become.

There's a popular theory on TV Tropes that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is basically an attempt to put someone with Shinji's characteristics into a more supportive and optimistic setting.

Similarly, FLCL is an attempt to put Shinji into an even more bizarre setting.

[tonberrian]

There's probably room for a Sidereal game about an overworked group of Siddies keeping Gem from imploding until its fated time. I'd play that if their charmset was fixed.

[Jokasti]

Originally Posted by tonberrian

There's probably room for a Sidereal game about an overworked group of Siddies keeping Gem from imploding until its fated time. I'd play that if their charmset was fixed.

Man, I love siddies. I would play in that game so hard.

[Terraoblivion]

Actually if i remember correctly then Poison Fish did in fact play that game once. Or perhaps he ran it, i can't really remember.

[SurlySeraph]

OK, I don't know Exalted well so bear with me.

What is the Great Curse? What does it actually do? I know the Primordials put it on the Exalted as revenge for overthrowing them, and it makes Solars have tragic flaws, Sidereals have BEST IDEAS EVER when they get together in groups, and Lunars have... poor self-control, I think. Is it more complicated than that, has its specific wording been spelled out anywhere, and does it affect Alchemicals, Dragon-Blooded, and Abyssals? I assume it doesn't apply to Infernals because they serve the Primordials.

[golentan]

Originally Posted by SurlySeraph

OK, I don't know Exalted well so bear with me.

What is the Great Curse? What does it actually do? I know the Primordials put it on the Exalted as revenge for overthrowing them, and it makes Solars have tragic flaws, Sidereals have BEST IDEAS EVER when they get together in groups, and Lunars have... poor self-control, I think. Is it more complicated than that, has its specific wording been spelled out anywhere, and does it affect Alchemicals, Dragon-Blooded, and Abyssals? I assume it doesn't apply to Infernals because they serve the Primordials.

Actually, it was the Death curse of the Neverborn. It basically boils down to "You Suck, and will suck harder" and was intended to visit suffering and madness upon the exalted and creation in vengeance simply to spite the people who killed them.

Lunars kind of get excessive with animalistic natures, BTW. Alchemicals have no curse: the first of them were built well after the war, and so unless and until they get in on a primordial kill they're pretty much in the clear. Abyssals and Infernals have had the curse removed, but replaced by Torment and Resonance so that their patrons have a handle in their nose to yank around at will. Dragon Blooded have the weakest part of the curse, but they still suffer it.

[Coidzor]

Y'know, a thought occurs.

With the 100K+ lost dragonblooded floating around the setting via conservative number crunching and the plethora of lost artifacts just whizzing around the cosmos all willynilly, the gross dereliction of their duty... maybe the dragonblooded are just really forgetful? Or at the very least, cursed to always lose things, like their warstrider keys (but not too terribly effected because they remember to have spares. In the warstriders. <_< >_>)....