Let's Play GenGame II: [Message redacted enjoy GenCola]

[Mewtarthio]

Originally Posted by BRC

(In fact, some people intentionally hold off on spawning their Lieutenant, instead picking up a Servant, Squire, or Follower in one of their lands, and designating them, though this cuts down the types of troops your mechanofortress can create, so few people do it).

You obviously haven't played recently. These days, you just need an Evil Overlord on your team and you can swap out your lieutenants with no downtime. You get all that crucial early-game Mechanofortress production with all the benefits of recruiting from the Lands.

...Yeah, that "Price of Failure" ability might be thematic, but it sure is overpowered.

[Ascension]

Price of Failure overpowered? Hardly. Not when every use of the skill has a chance to spawn a Plucky Band of Rebels. No Evil Overlord can stand against a Plucky Band!

[BRC]

Originally Posted by Mewtarthio

You obviously haven't played recently. These days, you just need an Evil Overlord on your team and you can swap out your lieutenants with no downtime. You get all that crucial early-game Mechanofortress production with all the benefits of recruiting from the Lands.

...Yeah, that "Price of Failure" ability might be thematic, but it sure is overpowered.

I don't have Virtues and Villainy, but I've gone up against an Evil Overlord before. Overusing Price of Failure makes your minions have a very low Loyalty stat. If you've been using Price of Failure, and a Lieutenant is forced to retreat, or fails to complete a task you've given them, they're loyalty drops like a rock. This is especially true if they fill a Lieutenant slot you vacated by using Price of Failure
I was playing a Spy recently in a 4v4, the other team had an Evil Overlord. We forced one of their lieutenants (An Inkquisitor they created once they got tired of our Cunning Conspirator( one of my Favorite Genres!)/ Mindbender shenanigans) to retreat. His loyalty dropped so low that I was able to get him to go Turncoat without even bribing him, and he brought half of their Squid army with him.

[Mewtarthio]

Originally Posted by BRC

I was playing a Spy recently in a 4v4, the other team had an Evil Overlord. We forced one of their lieutenants (An Inkquisitor they created once they got tired of our Cunning Conspirator( one of my Favorite Genres!)/ Mindbender shenanigans) to retreat. His loyalty dropped so low that I was able to get him to go Turncoat without even bribing him, and he brought half of their Squid army with him.

Seeing as like 90% of all Inkquisitors come with the Fanatical (Divine) tag, he was probably just in a Crisis of Faith at the time. They're pretty vulnerable to those. I don't even bother with them, but I hear some guys like to rig them up with killswitches (if you do it right, the game registers it as an environmental death; hardly a pleasant experience for you, but better than a Turncoat).

Though, yeah, you shouldn't use it too often. Maybe twice a game: Once when you know enough about the team that you can make an intelligent choice of lieutenant, and again when it's late enough that Loyalty won't come into play.

[HypoSoc]

Originally Posted by BRC

You see, Shadowbears have both the Bear and Shadowed subtype.

I'd like to point out that Shadow Bears are from the original GenGame, and subtypes didn't appear until GenGame II, Guns and Grenades (Way back when they numbered the expansions, so its not a surprise you don't remember). Shadow bears still use the original code, as seen in this DrWutson exploit (If you don't have time to watch, a Light Shaman to cast Glory Blaze on the Shadow Bear Minion, which can't be done on shadows, as part of a Mimic, Cyclops, Bear Combo). So essentially, Shadow Bears are just dark-colored bears with a light weakness.

However, you can still make them a Green Bearet if you get a Shadow Knife. I wonder if SM already unknowingly picked one up?

SM: Place TORCH in last INVENTORY SLOT to DECLOAK the invisible SHADOW KNIFE for CADDYBEAR

[NotAEvilToaster]

NO NO NO! This is horrible! We don't want a Green Bearet! We need someone to cover SM's weaknesses! A swordfighter needs a long ranged, magic user as a Servant! I always lose my matches if i use a Green Bearet! All we need to do is find the RING OF GROOM and RING OF BRIDE, and we can upgrade him to a RINGBEARER. As long as he can throw his rings, or get them onto a finger of an enemy, he should be able to cast BEHAVIORAL and TRANSFORMATIONAL curses!

[BRC]

Originally Posted by NotAEvilToaster

NO NO NO! This is horrible! We don't want a Green Bearet! We need someone to cover SM's weaknesses! A swordfighter needs a long ranged, magic user as a Servant! I always lose my matches if i use a Green Bearet! All we need to do is find the RING OF GROOM and RING OF BRIDE, and we can upgrade him to a RINGBEARER. As long as he can throw his rings, or get them onto a finger of an enemy, he should be able to cast BEHAVIORAL and TRANSFORMATIONAL curses!

I'm sorry, but there are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.
1) While not a magic user, the Green Bearet is great at long ranges. Their primary weapons group is firearms remember. Give him that automatic killgun and he'll provide all the ranged support we need!
2) We don't have a mechanofortress, which will really slow down our ability to get minions. One of the main factors you have to consider when choosing a Lieutenant is what units they let you produce, in this case, Green Bearets (Technically Caddybear would become a Green Bearet Commander, it's just easier to say Green Bearet when talking about a lieutenant, people generally understand what you mean). A Ringbearer dosn't unlock any new unit types, it just provides some benefits to the ones you have, and currently, we don't have any. They make decent Servants, but I wouldn't waste a Lieutenant slot on one. Also, Green Bearets are one of the few units types that don't need to be produced at a mechanofortress or keep. It's expensive, but we can get a squad of them anywhere we want by using their Bearborne Infantry ability. We're going up against a bigger force anyway, being able to get a couple elite ranked units in the right spot is going to be huge.
3) Ringbearers provide terrible long-ranged support, they're accuracy sucks since they have to get it on their finger. They have their uses, but you need to get them really close if you want to be sure.
4) We don't have either of those rings, and no way to get them. We already have the Automatic Killgun to turn him into a Green Bearet. I thought they patched Shadowbears, but even if they didn't ,considering the zone there is a very good chance a Shadowknife snuck it's way into our inventory.
5) Of all the bear types in the game, Shadowbears are perhaps the type least suited for Ringbearers. They dislike light and have a weak charisma stat.
6) Making him a Ringbearer means there is a high probability he would get back into Politics, after we worked so hard to rid him of that disgusting hobby.

[HypoSoc]

Originally Posted by BRC

1) While not a magic user, the Green Bearet is great at long ranges. Their primary weapons group is firearms remember. Give him that automatic killgun and he'll provide all the ranged support we need!

While I support what you are saying, I need to point out that the AUTOMATIC KILLGUN is a close-to-mid-ranged gun, as it has a spray. I suggest he receives that for plowing through enemies, and then focus on getting a HUNTING SEASON for long-ranged sniping. Before you say minions can only have one weapon type, I'd like to point out he is a CaddyBear Minion. If you don't remember Gengame: Games and Ghouls, the Caddy ability allows for one weapon for each range, with only a minuscule weapon switch time.

So, what should his melee be? I'm thinking the Razorback.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by HypoSoc

While I support what you are saying, I need to point out that the AUTOMATIC KILLGUN is a close-to-mid-ranged gun, as it has a spray. I suggest he receives that for plowing through enemies, and then focus on getting a HUNTING SEASON for long-ranged sniping. Before you say minions can only have one weapon type, I'd like to point out he is a CaddyBear Minion. If you don't remember Gengame: Games and Ghouls, the Caddy ability allows for one weapon for each range, with only a minuscule weapon switch time.

So, what should his melee be? I'm thinking the Razorback.

Mod range should serve our purposes just fine. We don't want him getting too far away from SM.
Also, he's a Lieutenant, so he gets more weapon options anyway. Here, Let me pull up the relevant parts of the Green Bearet statblock from Genwiki

Name: Green Bearet Commander
Requirements: Bear type, Stealth ability.
Unit type: Green Bearet
Recruitment: Few Bear units gain the Stealth ability, so it's difficult to create a Green Bearet Commander. The usual method is to hire one from a Mercenary's Camp. If you do get a Bear type unit with Stealth (From, say, a recruited Shadowbear, the Biomancer's Skill Transfer, a Combat Commando's "Lead By Example", or a Warlord's Advanced Training ability), appointing them your Lieutenant and giving them any Tech 3 or higher Firearm will transform them into a Green Bearet Commander.

Weapon Types: Green Bearet Commanders can carry 1 Heavy weapon and 1 Light Weapon, 2 Standard weapons, or 1 Standard weapon (usually an Assault Rifle, Sniper Rifle, or SMG) and two Light Weapons (Usually a Pistol and Combat Knife). As Bear type units, they retain their Claw attacks, however the Green Bearet Commander gains no special bonuses with Claw attacks.
Green Bearet Commanders cannot use ranged weapons below Tech 3 or melee weapons above Light.

The Caddy ability should give him even more room, at least enough for a light melee weapon even if we have 2 Standard ranged (Like the Killgun and a Sniper rifle)

[NotAEvilToaster]

That was pre Servants and Salutations, the current version of the RingBearer can cast through throwing rings, or with a good enough recipie, make other Magic rings, such as The Ring Of Holy Judgment. Also, the Rings Of Bride And Groom are easily obtained by having two of your players unlock the SS Courtship, where they are a pittance at the shop. With All female players though, BH will need to use Disguise: Male to purchase the Ring of the Groom though.

Also, A little trick, Naming your Green Bearet John Templeheat allows them to use Heavy Melee weapons, with a bonus.

((You better get that reference.))

[The Dark Fiddler]

Originally Posted by NotAEvilToaster

Also, A little trick, Naming your Green Bearet John Templeheat allows them to use Heavy Melee weapons, with a bonus.

Pfft, you still believe that? Jeez, it was proven a few months ago that names have no effect on the stats of your character, servant, lieutenant, or anything. I bet you still believe that holding your sword up and getting struck by lightning boosts you by five levels, and that kicking somebody into a bottomless pit while punctuating your sentences incorrectly will get you suave, or your class's equivalent.

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by The Dark Fiddler

and that kicking somebody into a bottomless pit while punctuating your sentences incorrectly will get you suave, or your class's equivalent.

What?!? Of course not! It gets you Action.

[NotAEvilToaster]

[message Redacted: Enjoy Gencola]

[The Dark Fiddler]

Originally Posted by NotAEvilToaster

Ah, but the most recent expansion, Names and Titles, released one month ago, added that functunality.

You mean the one they already pulled off the shelves?

[Mewtarthio]

Originally Posted by NotAEvilToaster

[MESSAGE REDACTED--ENJOY GENCOLA!]

...That was an amazing bottle of GenCola that I just drank! Did you not get that e-mail? Did you never find it strange that your opinion of the beverage GenCola is not one of worshipful admiration, indicating that you are clearly suffering from an advanced mental disease?

[BRC]

Actually, I heard that Gencola is available in twenty delicious flavors! However, it was very easy to Enjoy Gencola (If you named a Servant, got the bonus, you could change the name and keep the bonus. If you changed it back, you would shed pounds while keeping that same great taste with Gencola Lite), so they scrapped the whole thing and wrote it off as an april fool's prank.

[flabort]

Heh. Green bearets? You guys are still fixated on those little death machines?

If SM manages to convince MG to apply the Heavy Heaver enhancement to some power armor, and give it to the shadow bear, he can become a Grizzly Gunner, which in itself is underpowered and overall worthless, but he'll then be able to become a Flaming Firer, which comes with a brand new Rocket Revolver, not to mention amazing fire-based casting. All that, and he still won't have become a lieutenant yet, leaving him free to become a Green bearet commander as well. All those stacked bonuses, various abilities, and awesome weapons is very Tasty, just like GenCola!

He'll be able to carry two heavy weapons at once, not to mention three standards and two lights as well. With Grizzly Gunner, not only would his gunning be astounding, he'd also be able to use scraps and other "useless loot" to upgrade his weapons. Since he's got Caddy, it also lets him shoot two standard weapons at once.
Flaming firer, while it doesn't grant swipecasting, does grant him bullet-casting, which, as you may guess, is well worth it for the fact that he can cast melee range spells, and shoot the guy Who isn't drinking Gencola, hitting him with the spell.
Not to mention whatever else MG could put in his power armor. If she mounts guns on it, He'd be able to upgrade the armor itself!
This is proved to be quite powerful, if you take a look at this section of DrWurston's guide, where he covers most of the uses and exploits of power armor. unfortunately, he hasn't once enjoyed the sweet, sparkling GenCola!

[Draconi Redfir]

i still say we hunt down the RUNED SHADOWBEAR and beat him, thus granting him his runes, which we can apply to CB to make HIM a RUNED SHADOWBEAR. then we can undergo all these fancy-shmancy lutenent shenanigans. only have even more awesome bonuses and stats!

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Gicko

i still say we hunt down the RUNED SHADOWBEAR and beat him, thus granting him his runes, which we can apply to CB to make HIM a RUNED SHADOWBEAR. then we can undergo all these fancy-shmancy lutenent shenanigans. only have even more awesome bonuses and stats!

Or possibly skin the RUNED SHADOWBEAR and make him into a KICKASS LONGCOAT for SM, which'll grant her AWESOME bonii for LONGCOAT synergy!

[NotAEvilToaster]

The runed Shadowbear should be finished with Random Requiem, As If i remember, the effect of the Random Requim on it has a 50% chance of turning it into a [MESSAGE REDACTED: ENJOY GENCOLA] Even though that monster shouldnt exist yet, and it drops the [MESSAGE REDACTED: GENCOLA COMES IN 50 AMAZING FLAVORS] Which is just FANTASTIC!

[Draconi Redfir]

Anyone else find it strange how [MESSAGE REDACTED ENJOY GENCOLA!] has become a meme within the boards, but not the comic itself?

[Arbane]

Originally Posted by Gicko

Anyone else find it strange how [MESSAGE REDACTED ENJOY GENCOLA!] has become a meme within the boards, but not the comic itself?

Nah. There's only so much they can fit in the comic, and we haven't had many conversations lately.

[AgentPaper]

The conversations that take place here are, in both my and domo's opinion, an integral part of the comic. While I wouldn't go so far as to say they are 100% canon, the line is thin and easily crossed.

For example, the power five mentioned quite often (DrWutson, Nowucme, MasterMined, 2SMKNBRRLES and Siryessir) I can confirm are part of canon. I can't say anything about when or if they will show up in-comic, but they exist.

[Zain]

Right, well I tend to lurk and Observe when it comes to Gengame, however I've seen that Green Bearet really tends to work better for mid to long range, compared to A ringbearer, however I think that MG may be able to make grafts, depending on how she got the class, I mean, if she unlocked it in Gengame XII, grafts and Grenades, then she can, and it would allow is to make him a Cybear if/when we meet up with her latter

[HypoSoc]

Originally Posted by AgentPaper

For example, the power five mentioned quite often (DrWutson, Nowucme, MasterMined, 2SMKNBRRLES and Siryessir) I can confirm are part of canon. I can't say anything about when or if they will show up in-comic, but they exist.

SQUEE!

[averagejoe]

The Mod They Call Me: Fan Comics is where this thread belongs, I think.

Please return to your scheduled fun activities. Enjoy Gencola.

[Flickerdart]

See, look what not updating has wrought.

[Fawkes]

Wait, this wasn't in Fan Comics?

[Mewtarthio]

> Domo & Paper: Include mildly self-aware reference to this change in next update

Originally Posted by Zain

Right, well I tend to lurk and Observe when it comes to Gengame, however I've seen that Green Bearet really tends to work better for mid to long range, compared to A ringbearer, however I think that MG may be able to make grafts, depending on how she got the class, I mean, if she unlocked it in Gengame XII, grafts and Grenades, then she can, and it would allow is to make him a Cybear if/when we meet up with her latter

Um... No offense, but how often do you play machinists, or really any tech-focused engineering class? Tech grafts are a huge source of Singularity, and you'll be playing it pretty close to the limit in most games. You can't afford any superfluous Singularity in the late game, and adding a graft to a lieutenant just isn't worth it.

Granted, for this game, it might not matter so much. Without a Mechanofortress, MG won't be building any of the high-Singularity minions any time soon (certainly not before somebody takes Castle Bane, at any rate).

[averagejoe]

Another neat thing about Green Bearets is that they allow you to form a Special Bear Service, which can eventually grow into a Royal Bear Force. Once you have a structured bear military unit, you can produce Ursa Majors to lead your troops in battle. A bear military is generally difficult to create, and because of this most people just go with Ursaknights, Bearserkers, and other melee bear types. However, a Special Forces is, in my opinion, no doubt what's needed to fight a superior foe, as in this situation. If you can get a squad of Gorillas and teach them Gorilla warfare, all the better.