What Ark knows IC, and noone else as of yet is the evidence (strangulation, no violence) which points to the likely conclusion that she hung herself through depression, and so if the present had been handed to her earlier then it'd have prevented her.
So Ark's thirst for knowledge is indirectly responsible for her suicide.
Also I'm pretty suprised everyone else is fairly deadpan about, but I guess they wouldn't have the same direct sense of guilt.
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Lily stance on this makes perfect sense. Jack just has his mad scientist gene telling him to cut open that specimen and see what's inside, and his virtue of Justice telling him to get to the bottom of this. So while there's some internal conflict, he definitely want's to examine the corpse.
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The Engineer: a master of mechanical, uh, mastery. Robots and stuff.
I doubt she had any companions. She killed herself out of loneliness, and outside of Equinox Road the True Fae are usually just Changelings with really high exp. They had nothing close to Apokolypsi 5 and whatever uncountable dice pool Santa has when checking The List, let alone checkin' it twice.
I'm with Dorren / Ark on this one, we screwed up bad and she killed herself without the friend. No True Fae or Changeling behind this.
Alari's position makes sense if you've
1) Read the Changling rulebook
2) Assume that the police will do a full investigation rather than correctly deduce that it's a suicide and close the case.
But Lilly hasn't read the rulebook, and OOC I imagine the police can correctly deduce a suicide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AyeGill
Jack just has his mad scientist gene telling him to cut open that specimen and see what's inside
And now we see why she's a Grimm Navigator and not a Stunnan or Scholastic not that Grimm dosn't cause it's own issues.
Last edited by The Kings Raven : 04-14-2011 at 01:06 PM.
Alari's position makes sense if you've
1) Read the Changling rulebook
2) Assume that the police will do a full investigation rather than correctly deduce that it's a suicide and close the case.
Actually, the real reason Alrai is here is so that he can pick up the Genius the Transgression PDF file. The Mystrium wants to print it out and bind it so they can put it with the rest of the nWoD Rulebooks they keep on their shelves.
I'm not sure how many splat's actually have read their own rulebook, but Moochava did recently imply most Geniuses have.
Alari isn't going to find his quest very hard, quite the opposite: Geniuses publish their rulebook online. The only problem is that the IC rulebooks are considerably less clear than the OOC one to anyone who's idea of physiscs isn't utterly bonkers. Here's* part of the Navigator Organon (A foundations manifesto/history of sorts though this one teaches Skafoi)
* I'm not kidding, it's quoted in the PDF as one of the documents all most new Navigators are given as their primer on Skafoi, Lilly's almost certainly read it but I haven’t and wouldn't be able to start roleplaying it so I'm keeping it OOC for now.
It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
Sir Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirian
He may secretly be the World's Greatest Detective, but I think that the average person in the DC Universe thinks of Bruce Wayne as the World's Worst Skier.
I'm not sure how many splat's actually have read their own rulebook, but Moochava did recently imply most Geniuses have.
Alari isn't going to find his quest very hard, quite the opposite: Geniuses publish their rulebook online. The only problem is that the IC rulebooks are considerably less clear than the OOC one to anyone who's idea of physiscs isn't utterly bonkers. Here's* part of the Navigator Organon (A foundations manifesto/history of sorts though this one teaches Skafoi)
* I'm not kidding, it's quoted in the PDF as one of the documents all most new Navigators are given as their primer on Skafoi, Lilly's almost certainly read it but I haven’t and wouldn't be able to start roleplaying it so I'm keeping it OOC for now.
Okay... as part of the consensus (No really, he actually was a professor of physics) Alrai is officially convinced you are all nuts or using very elaborate code.
And shouldn't that section be for a bardo or from a unmada? It has been proven wrong.
They will arrive by first post in the morning, 9 o'clock.
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It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
Sir Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirian
He may secretly be the World's Greatest Detective, but I think that the average person in the DC Universe thinks of Bruce Wayne as the World's Worst Skier.
Okay... as part of the consensus (No really, he actually was a professor of physics)
Around here who isn't? 1 in 3 Geniuses has a PhD or equivalent (2 in 3 say they do).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exthalion
Alrai is officially convinced you are all nuts or using very elaborate code.
The first, definitely the first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exthalion
And shouldn't that section be for a bardo or from a unmada? It has been proven wrong.
No:
Bardo's are created when people believe in something before it gets proven wrong. It's the energy of all those people changing their minds that create a Mania Storm. Hardly anyone believes in Time Cube so it's not likely to create a Bardo.
All Geniuses build Wonders on theories at the Time Cube level of sane, the difference is that a non-Unmada knows these theories are gibberish and that they don't apply to anything except the Wonder itself. An Unmada thinks the theory is actually accurate. This is also why a lot of non-Unmada Geniuses tend to ham up their theories, sure you could come up with a ridiculous symbiotic retro-viral pill but it's just so much more fun to come up with a theory of essential biological life-force that boils down to wiring people up to lightning rods to cure cancer.
One of you other Geniuses remind Lilly that time travel is a very very bad idea.
Someone also remind Lilly that you have the dead body of little girl just lying on the ground in a public place, and that you really should decide what to do about that.
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It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
Sir Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirian
He may secretly be the World's Greatest Detective, but I think that the average person in the DC Universe thinks of Bruce Wayne as the World's Worst Skier.
Before I posted this IC I wanted to check that Lilly actually knows of a chrononaught at Secret Navigator HQ, otherwise it dosn't make much sense.
Quote:
For a moment Lilly looked very frustrated, then she took a long swig and just looked determined. "Right, I'm off to see about a time machine." This of course meant she had to go speak to the Navigators, individually the Navigators were fine but put enough of them in an organisation and they were frustrating enough that Lilly was annoyed before she'd even left the pub.
Well, no. They did have their annoying side, but it tended to be about official things and even then you had to interact with them first. The real reason was that Lilly was mad and simply didn't think of asking for help when she could be self reliant in twenty or so years. That's the problem with being both mad and smart, it means you are very good at rationalising your mad perspective.
(I have discovered the joy of rationalising things that I didn't think of OOC as Lilly being mad.)
If Lilly does find a Time Machine we'd still need to get a fake corpse from somewhere (not the morgue!). It's a pity we lost our Progenitor.
And it seems you know more about Paradoxes than me EvilDMMk3. Care to help me with the theory, I didn't think it would make much difference the longer we waited.
Last edited by The Kings Raven : 04-21-2011 at 01:10 PM.
If Lilly does find a Time Machine we'd still need to get a fake corpse from somewhere (not the morgue!). It's a pity we lost our Progenitor.
And it seems you know more about Paradoxes than me EvilDMMk3. Care to help me with the theory, I didn't think it would make much difference the longer we waited.
Could we use the real one? Or would that vanish is puff of causality if we tried it?
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The longer you wait, the more that the you that is you will have diverged from the you that you remember. If you do it now then you wont have actually come to the bar or planned to use time travel. If you wait until you can build your own, you might not even have ever decided to build your own (because you never had a reason). Best to change your past as soon as possible after the event.
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It is a contraction of Evil DM Mark 3. I don't know why why so many have difficulty with a standard contraction but there we are. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
Sir Terry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirian
He may secretly be the World's Greatest Detective, but I think that the average person in the DC Universe thinks of Bruce Wayne as the World's Worst Skier.
Could we use the real one? Or would that vanish is puff of causality if we tried it?
It would definitely cause a time loop paradox:
1) Lilly finds the corpse in the tree.
2) Zevchen takes the corpse back in time then puts it in the tree.
1) Lilly finds the corpse in the tree.
2) Zevchen takes the corpse back in time then puts it in the tree.
See the infinite loop. It might actually work, it would just be a paradox that worked. Best not to risk it.
Last edited by The Kings Raven : 04-21-2011 at 01:28 PM.
1) Lilly finds the corpse in the tree.
2) Zevchen takes the corpse back in time then puts it in the tree.
1) Lilly finds the corpse in the tree.
2) Zevchen takes the corpse back in time then puts it in the tree.
See the infinite loop. It might actually work, it would just be a paradox that worked. Best not to risk it.
Yeah, but if we take Susie back to the future, she never commits suicide, thus no corpse.
One other thing that occured to me. What if we haven't found Susie's actual corpse? What if we just found the doppleganger she was replaced with for her durance, and she's still alive. It might be good to consult an actual changeling in order to make sure we got everything right.
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The longer you wait, the more that the you that is you will have diverged from the you that you remember. If you do it now then you wont have actually come to the bar or planned to use time travel. If you wait until you can build your own, you might not even have ever decided to build your own (because you never had a reason). Best to change your past as soon as possible after the event.
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding on what we're planing to do. The goal is to find the faerie girl and bring her into the future, then put a fake corpse in the tree for our past selves to find. We're being careful to make sure we don't actually know if we found a real dead body or a fake one.
That way even after we've gone back in time and saved her, our past selves will still find a body, still decide to get a time machine, and still turn into our present selves
P.S. you never said if Lilly knows a Navigator with a time machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indalecio
Yeah, but if we take Susie back to the future, she never commits suicide, thus no corpse.
Good point!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indalecio
One other thing that occured to me. What if we haven't found Susie's actual corpse? What if we just found the doppleganger she was replaced with for her durance, and she's still alive.
In that case we save the life of a Fetch rather than a Changeling. Either way we're still saving the life of a fully sentient little girl. Job well done :)
I wouldn't want to look too closely though. We might prove that she isn't a fake from the future and cause a paradox.
Last edited by The Kings Raven : 04-21-2011 at 01:36 PM.
In that case we save the life of a Fetch rather than a Changeling. Either way we're still saving the life of a fully sentient little girl. Job well done :)
Fetch was the word I was looking for. Who may have been killed by Susie herself in order to take her place. Thats going to be a real mess to sort out. Do fetches disintegrate or something when they're killed. It might be a non-issue then.
Quote:
I wouldn't want to look too closely though. We might prove that she isn't a fake from the future and cause a paradox.
Yeah you could getting into trouble for knowing too much, and from knowing too little.
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Re: For Science! Test Group A
not that Grimm dosn't cause it's own issues.
