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Homebrew Design Roll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.

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Old 11-14-2010, 03:13 AM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Igneel
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Default Wyrmfire Disciple [WIP/PEACH] 3.5 Base Class

Wyrmfire Disciple
Spoiler

Image found in Paizo.com. Warning: Somewhat large.

-Abilities: Constitution helps with adding more health since the Wyrmfire Disciple can go into melee and with increasing its Breath Weapon saving throw. Charisma is useful for the few Invocation saving throws, Frightful Presence and additional use of their healing power. Strength aids with their melee battle skills using their natural weapons or manufactured weapons.
-Alignment: Within 1 step of their choice of Totem dragons.
-Weapon & Armor Proficiencies: Proficient in the use of Simple and Natural Weapons (such as the Claws, Bite, and Tail attacks they gain through class levels), and no armor and shields. Armor causes Arcane Spell Chance Failure, unless specially crafted, which is why they prefer to rely on their Scales over manufactured armor.
-Hit Dice: d10

LevelBase Attack BonusFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecialAuras KnownInvocations Known
1st
+0
+2
+0
+2
Draconic Aura +1, Draconic Weapons (Claws), Draconic Scales, Touch of Vitality, Totem Dragon, Least Invocations
1
1
2nd
+1
+3
+0
+3
Breath Weapon 1d6
1
1
3rd
+2
+3
+0
+3
Draconic Adaptation
2
2
4th
+3
+4
+1
+4
Draconic Weapons (Bite), Natural Armor +1
2
2
5th
+3
+4
+1
+4
Draconic Aura +2, Draconic Wings
2
2
6th
+4
+5
+2
+5
Touch of Vitality (Remove Conditions), Lesser Invocations
3
3
7th
+5
+5
+2
+5
Draconic Aura Range Increase
3
3
8th
+6/+1
+6
+2
+6
Draconic Weapons (Tail), Natural Armor +2
3
4
9th
+6/+1
+6
+3
+6
Breath Weapon Range increase
4
4
10th
+7/+2
+7
+3
+7
Draconic Aura +3, Draconic Wings (Improved)
4
4
11th
+8/+3
+7
+3
+7
Greater Invocations
5
5
12th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Draconic Weapon Increase, Natural Armor +3
5
5
13th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Draconic Aura Range Increase, Draconic Adaptation (Share with allies)
5
6
14th
+10/+5
+9
+4
+9
Frightful Presence, Commune with Dragon Totem
6
6
15th
+11/+6/+1
+9
+5
+9
Draconic Aura +4, Draconic Wings (Superior)
6
6
16th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Breath Weapon Range Increase, Natural Armor +4, Dark Invocations
7
7
17th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Totem Dragon Skill Bonus
8
7
18th
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
Draconic Aura Range Increase
8
8
19th
+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Dragon Apotheosis
9
8
20th
+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Draconic Aura +5, Natural Armor +5, Draconic Wings (Perfect)
9
8
-Skill Points: (4+Int modifier per level, x4 at first level): Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (any; individually), Search, Spellcraft, Survival, Use Magic Device, along with any added from Totem Dragon

Class Abilities:
Spoiler
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"Words ought to be chosen with greater care then either clothing or weaponry. For they can last much longer than the former, and cut deeper than the latter."

-Doomraga's Revenge by T.A. Barron

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Last edited by Igneel : 11-14-2010 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:15 AM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Igneel
Ogre in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 
In a cave w/piles of gold
Gender: Male
Default Re: Wyrmfire Disciple [WIP/PEACH] 3.5 Base Class

~Under Construction for Alternate abilities/extra stuff~

Mechanics of Transformation
Spoiler


Ex-Wyrmfire Disciples:
Spoiler


-Alternate Abilities:
By the Dm's consent, a Wyrmfire Disciple can choose to use variants of their powers. By choosing to use a variant the player chooses to replace certain powers a normal Wyrmfire Disciple would have access to. Some variants are only able to be taken by disciples of certain alignments, breath energy, or even the origin of the dragon totem. The following lists different variants for Totem Dragons, Damage Reduction for the Dragon Apotheosis, and Frightful Presence.

Spoiler

=======

Fluff
Spoiler
__________________
Avvie by the awesome Ceika

"Words ought to be chosen with greater care then either clothing or weaponry. For they can last much longer than the former, and cut deeper than the latter."

-Doomraga's Revenge by T.A. Barron

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====
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Last edited by Igneel : 11-14-2010 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:19 AM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Igneel
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 
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Gender: Male
Default Re: Wyrmfire Disciple [WIP/PEACH] 3.5 Base Class

Changelog/Authors Notes:
Spoiler
__________________
Avvie by the awesome Ceika

"Words ought to be chosen with greater care then either clothing or weaponry. For they can last much longer than the former, and cut deeper than the latter."

-Doomraga's Revenge by T.A. Barron

Extended Homebrew Signature
====
Playing
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Last edited by Igneel : 11-24-2010 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:10 AM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Igneel
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Default Re: Wyrmfire Disciple [WIP/PEACH] 3.5 Base Class

Posting this from another thread, as a way to be sure to save these suggestions, and as a shameless BUMP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Antigamer View Post
Igneel:
-Touch of Vitality:
"For every 5 points of your healing ability you expend you can cure 1 point of ability damage or remove the dazed, fatigued, or sickened condition from one individual.
For every 10 points of your healing ability you expend, you can remove the exhausted, nauseated, poisoned, or stunned condition from one individual.
For every 20 points of your healing ability you expend, you can remove a negative level or the blinded, deafened, or diseased condition from one individual."

Does this mean you can heal 5 hp and remove the sickened condition, or expend the ability to heal 5 hp and instead remove sickened?
I would put the ability damage at 10 hp rather than 5 hp.

Expend 5/10/20 for curing a condition/ability damage/etc, just like the Dragon Shaman's version from PHB2.
Hmm... I guess I could move ability damage to 10 rather than 5...


-Breath Weapon (Su):
"You may temporarily change this energy to that of a different totem as a move action, lasting for one minute or until you change it again, after which time your breath weapon reverts to the default, or till you take another move action to change it again."

Access to all energy types as a breath weapon at 2nd level is a bit much. Maybe every couple of levels he gains another to switch between? And he shouldn't gain the energy type opposed to its totem dragon.

Interesting point. Originally I was thinking along the lines of the Dragonfire Adept's version of being able to pick what breath weapon effects you want (1 @ 2nd, another at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th) But I was thinking along the lines of the Dragonborn of Bahamut's breath weapon, which you can choose what energy to deal. I know it was one of the most complained things that you basically had to choose a totem that dealt a energy type that you could use in the later half of a game for the Dragon Shaman.

Another thing was that I didn't want to tread on the DfA's strongest breath weapon effects (Slow, Tiamat fivefold, & Bahamut disintegrate.) Course I was also thinking about incorporating other Deitific dragon breaths like Tamarya for a healing, or Falazure for negative energy, etc

I might put up a ruling on the opposing element (fire-cold, acid-electricity, etc).


Also, you're a tad front-loaded at level one. I'd switch Draconic Weapons (Claws), Draconic Scales, or Touch of Vitality to level 2.

I was worried about that.... I think that I could move either Draconic weapons (claws) or Touch of Vitality back one level. Scales seems more important at first since they don't get an armor.

-Draconic Scales (Ex):
A free armor bonus 6+1/3 your class level, with no movement penalty, no spell failure %, to a class that has no armor proficiencies, is too strong, especially for 1st level. That needs to come down, possibly just have the whole score be based off levels. I think it should only grant resistance to your totem dragon's energy as well.

Hmm... I was trying to base this somewhat on the class feature replacement for heavy armor wearers... maybe I need to change something. Maybe a spell failure & movement penalty, but they gain armor casting like the Duskblade?

What I'm afraid of with scaling with level is that at 1st level, yes they would get +6 to AC, but by lvl 20 they'd be getting a +12. Not including Natural Armor, and Dex that's a 22 AC. As opposed to your suggestion (if I'm reading right) of +1 at 1st, +20 at lvl 20. Not good at the beginning for a melee-style character, but better by the end.

Another thing I thought about was giving it an Imbue Enchantment like the Draconic Weapons, but with armor enchantments/advancing (getting a magical +1-5 modifier for example). Would that work?

Resistance: Funny... I thought I mentioned that it was to your totem...?


-Imbue Draconic Weapon:
8 hours of concentration, or 8 hours of sleep?

Sleep would probably be better, kinda based the text off of the Soulknife's version. Any suggestions on enchantments (outside of Flaming, Shocking, Acidic, etc)?

-Dragon apotheosis
"his maximum age is removed. The Wyrmfire Disciple still dies from old age."
I sense a contradiction.

Monk and Druid have something along these lines if I recall. I'll think about how to re-write it as to make it clearer to understand....

On invocations:
Baleful Geas: Is extremely, extremely powerful. Geas should never be a standard action.
Io's Call: Seems...useless?
Energy Immunity: Needs a 1 at a time clause.
Roar of Changing: Needs nerfing, Baleful Polymorph at will is not a good idea.


-Baleful Geas: Invocation from DfA that I have always had to ask a DM how it is ruled (Spell-like ability/Invocation state standard action, but Geas is a 10 min). Have been thinking about either substituting it with something closer to a Domination spell, letting a DM choose which casting time, or just erasing it from the list all together.
-Io's Call: Draconic version of Warlock's Call (Cityscape Warlock invocation). There is a use for it once you get to Epic, since there is a epic feat (which I plan on reproducing) that replaces the damage, and allows it to be used on other planes and such. Course it is also on the possible chop block since without the feat it is next to useless.
-Energy Immunity: Another typo that I thought I mentioned your suggestion.
-Roar of Changing: Another Warlock invocation. I didn't really change it outside of the name. I guess I could try to nerf it somehow...
Thanks for all the tips Anti. Alot of it was things that I was worried about, and now I know that I'm not the only one. I will work out these problems as I get time when my internet access isn't so wonky.

====
Edit
Going to put up proposed changes here so that I can edit later in the morning/day when I get a chance to do so.

Quote:
Also, proposed changes for some of my class features-

Scale Change:
* +3 Base AC + 1/3 class level (+3 @ lvl 1, +9 @ lvl 20) + Enchantments (+1 @ lvl 5, +5 @ lvl 20)= +5 @ lvl 5, +14 @ lvl 20
* Resistance to base energy damage of totem 5 @ 5th, 10 @ 10th, 15 @ 15th, etc

Breath Weapon Change:
* 3 possible elemental damage (Base energy + 2 [can't have opposing element]), Base first, 2nd energy 2-3 lvls later, 3rd energy 2-3 lvls later.
* Possibly add pool of Status effecting breaths for player to choose (Sleep, Slow, Paralysis, Weakening, etc)?

Age Wording:
"The Wyrmfire Disciple does not use the dragon aging categories, instead retaining the standard aging category for characters. However the Wyrmfire Disciple no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties he may have already incurred, however remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the wyrmfire disciple still dies of old age when his time is up."
__________________
Avvie by the awesome Ceika

"Words ought to be chosen with greater care then either clothing or weaponry. For they can last much longer than the former, and cut deeper than the latter."

-Doomraga's Revenge by T.A. Barron

Extended Homebrew Signature
====
Playing
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Last edited by Igneel : 11-24-2010 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:15 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
gkathellar
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Default Re: Wyrmfire Disciple [WIP/PEACH] 3.5 Base Class

I don't know how much the class can be evaluated until you revise the auras. As it stands, Chambers' marshal/warlock-based aura system is incompatible with the setup for auras you have presented. So either you need to change them or use the auras from one of the other Dragon Shaman fixes floating around the forum (like this one).

Assuming a fairly standard power level for auras ... it looks like it might be kind of overpowered. It's still tier 3, but it's at the really high end of tier 3, especially at early levels. A level 1 wyrmfire adept is significantly better and more useful than a level 1 warblade, and that's a problem.
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Igneel
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Default Re: Wyrmfire Disciple [WIP/PEACH] 3.5 Base Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
I don't know how much the class can be evaluated until you revise the auras. As it stands, Chambers' marshal/warlock-based aura system is incompatible with the setup for auras you have presented. So either you need to change them or use the auras from one of the other Dragon Shaman fixes floating around the forum (like this one).
I have to agree with you on this. I am currently working out a way to fix this, but may be forced to revert to how the Dragon Shaman goes about it. But I'm determined to get them to work, especially once my laptop is fixed so that I can work on this full-time. I also thank you for the link.

Assuming a fairly standard power level for auras ... it looks like it might be kind of overpowered. It's still tier 3, but it's at the really high end of tier 3, especially at early levels. A level 1 wyrmfire adept is significantly better and more useful than a level 1 warblade, and that's a problem.
I have noticed this, and am working on editing it. Currently I'm thinking about moving the Claws and Touch of Vitality to a different level (minimum of lvl 2?) so that they at least have to use Simple weapons to begin with.
Or is this about the Auras/Invocations? Either way, I thank you for your helpful pointers and will continue working on my first homebrew to my fullest.
=====
Alright, since I took the initiative to print out my class so that I could have a hard copy I've been doing some thinking/editing for possible things to make it somewhat more balanced.

Edits/Proposal Ideas
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__________________
Avvie by the awesome Ceika

"Words ought to be chosen with greater care then either clothing or weaponry. For they can last much longer than the former, and cut deeper than the latter."

-Doomraga's Revenge by T.A. Barron

Extended Homebrew Signature
====
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