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Old 11-17-2010, 01:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Person_Man
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Default [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

This is a class that I've previously posted, rewritten, play tested, rewritten, and then play tested some more. Arguskos PM'd me and mentioned that he might wish to include it in his (awesome) homebrew campaign setting, so I figured I should update it again and repost it for feedback.


Magitech Templar - Mark X



Creative Commons Image from this talented artist.

d12 hit die

Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (except tower shields).

Class Skills: Appraise, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana, Architecture and Engineering, Religion), Profession, Spellcraft, Swim.

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Intelligence modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.


Level BAB Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st + 1 + 2 + 0 + 0 Magitech Armor, +1 Enhancement Bonus
2nd + 2 + 3 + 0 + 0 Magitech Upgrade
3rd + 3 + 3 + 1 + 1 Armor Sentience, Armored Sense Upgrade
4th + 4 + 4 + 1 + 1 Magitech Upgrade, Imbue Armor
5th + 5 + 4 + 1 + 1 Armor Expertise, +2 Enhancement Bonus
6th + 6 + 5 + 2 + 2 Magitech Upgrade
7th + 7 + 5 + 2 + 2 Armored Sense Upgrade
8th + 8 + 6 + 2 + 2 Magitech Upgrade
9th + 9 + 6 + 3 + 3 Armor Expertise, +3 Enhancement Bonus
10th + 10 + 7 + 3 + 3 Magitech Upgrade
11th + 11 + 7 + 3 + 3 Armored Sense Upgrade
12th + 12 + 8 + 4 + 4 Magitech Upgrade
13th + 13 + 8 + 4 + 4 Armor Expertise, +4 Enhancement Bonus
14th + 14 + 9 + 4 + 4 Magitech Upgrade
15th + 15 + 9 + 5 + 5 Armored Sense Upgrade
16th + 16 + 10 + 5 + 5 Magitech Upgrade
17th + 17 + 10 + 5 + 5 Armor Expertise, +5 Enhancement Bonus
18th + 18 + 11 + 6 + 6 Magitech Upgrade
19th + 19 + 11 + 6 + 6 Armored Sense Upgrade
20th + 20 + 12 + 6 + 6 Magitech Upgrade, Armor Transcendence

Class Abilities:

Magitech Armor: At 1st level you gain a suit of magic armor from your church (or family, clan, king, or other organization as appropriate for your character). You may choose any type of armor that you are proficient with. It is of masterwork quality, but is otherwise typical of armor of that type. At your option and expense, you may request that the armor be made of special materials, or that it include armor spikes or other mundane additions (hidden sheaths, heraldry) as long as they are normally capable of being added to such armor, and you pay the full cost associated with the improvements. At any time you may return to any church of your order, and they will provide you with the facilities needed for you to repair, improve, or enchant it, though you must still pay for materials and other associated costs.

At 1st level your Magitech Armor has a magical +1 enhancement bonus to it’s Armor Class. This increases by an additional +1 every four levels thereafter (+2 at 5th level, +3 at 9th level, +4 at 13th level, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level). A Magitech Templar may choose to increase the enhancement bonus of his Magitech Armor's Armor Class through the normal enchantment processes for magical armor at his own expense if he wishes. However, Magitech Armor may never have an enhancement bonus to it's Armor Class higher than the Magitech Templar's effective character level (all class and prestige class levels + level adjustment + racial hit dice) divided by 4 (rounded up). A Magitech Templar may also choose to add up to +5 bonus worth of other magical enchantments (Acid Resistance, Fortification, Invulnerability, Shadow, etc) to his Magitech Armor at his own expense.

The cost of improving the enhancement bonus to Armor Class and adding any other enchantments to your Magitech Armor is calculated separately from the enchantment bonus to Armor Class gained by taking levels of Magitech Templar. For example, if you wanted to add Light Fortification (a +1 bonus) to your +1 Magitech Armor, it would only cost 1,000 gp (the cost of a +1 enchantment), and not the 3,000 gp it would normally cost to improve +1 magic armor to +2 magic armor.

Magitech Armor is more powerful then a regular magic item. It cannot be supressed with Dispel Magic or similar effects. Only an an Antimagic Field and areas of "dead magic" suppress it's abilities, rendering it mundane masterwork armor until the magic suppression ends. When suppressed by an Anti-Magic Field or similar effect, you also lose any abilities gained from Magitech Upgrades, Armor Sentience, and Armored Sense Upgrade. As Extraordinary abilities, benefits gained from Armor Expertise and Armor Transcendence are unaffected by Antimagic.

If your Magitech Armor is ever stolen or destroyed, you must go on a special quest determined by your church (the DM) to prove your loyalty and competence, and they will replace it free of charge. When replaced, it will contain any upgrades, magical enhancements, and other improvements that you have accumulated and invested in it up to that point. If you ever willingly sell or give away your Magitech Armor, you are cast out from your church and may not take additional levels of the Magitech Templar class. All Magitech Armor abilities and Magitech Upgrades only function for the Magitech Templar for which it was created. No one else, including other Magitech Templars, may use them.


Magitech Upgrade (Sp): At 2nd level and every even level thereafter you gain a new ability with your Magitech Armor. These abilities function only while you wear your Magitech Armor.

Unless otherwise noted, if a Magitech Upgrade effect allows a Saving Throw the Save DC = 10 + 1/2 your Magitech Templar level + your Intelligence bonus. For the purpose of duration, bypassing Spell-Resistance, or any other similar calculation, your caster level is equal to your Magitech Templar level and your primary caster attribute is Intelligence.

Feats which can apply to spell-like abilities, such as Ability Focus and Quicken Spell-Like Ability, can be taken to improve Magitech Upgrades. Each time you take such a feat it only applies to a single Upgrade of your choice - thus Ability Focus could improve the Save DC of your Frost Missile attacks, but would not apply to the rest of your Upgrades unless you took the feat multiple times. For the purpose of qualifying for such feats, your Magitech Upgrades are exempt from caster level and spell level requirements.

Also unless otherwise noted, you may only choose each Upgrade once. Each time you gain a Magitech Upgrade, choose one of the following:

Spoiler


Armor Sentience (Sp): At 3rd level your Magitech Armor gains sentience. Your armor has an Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores equal to 10 + 1/2 your Magitech Templar level. It does not possess a Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution score, and is entirely dependent upon the wearer for movement. Your armor capable of speech, vision, hearing, and empathy - the wearer feels urges and sometimes emotions from the item that encourage or discourage certain courses of action. Your armor speaks Common, and may gain additional languages and Skills as detailed in the Armor Sense Upgrade (see below).

Your armor's alignment matches your alignment at the time you gain this ability, and shares the beliefs of your church (or whatever group granted you your armor). Your armor has an Ego Score of 10 + your Magitech Templar level. As you gain levels it becomes more powerful, but it also becomes more insistent that you follow the alignment of your church.

If the Magitech Templar's ever takes an action that significantly breaks with their alignment, a personality conflict occurs. The armor attempts to wrest control of the Magitech Templar's mind. The Magitech Templar must make a Will saving throw (DC = Armor's Ego). If the Magitech Templar succeeds, he is dominant. The armor's alignment changes to match the Magitech Templar alignment (if it changed as a result of his actions) and it does not challenge the Magitech Templar on actions related to that specific matter again. If he fails, the armor is dominant. Dominance lasts for one day or until a critical situation occurs (such as a major battle, a serious threat to either the item or the character, and so on). Should an item gain dominance, it resists the character’s desires and demands concessions as detailed under the Intelligent Item rules.

Any character whose alignment does not correspond to that of the armor one negative level if he or she so much as picks up the item. Although this negative level never results in actual level loss, it remains as long as the item is in hand and cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells). This negative level is cumulative with any other penalties the item might already place on inappropriate wielders. Items with Ego scores (see below) of 20 to 29 bestow two negative levels. Items with Ego scores of 30 or higher bestow three negative levels.


Armored Sense Upgrade (Sp): At 3rd level you gain the ability to share senses with your Magitech Armor. You may use your Magitech Armor's ability to perceive the world. This allows you to replace your Listen, Spot, or other Skill check with your armor's Skill check if you choose to do so, using your armor's Skill ranks and Wisdom or Intelligence bonus in place of your own. You may also use your armor's Darkvision, Blindsight, or other special senses in place of your own. Your armor does not receive any bonuses or take penalties to any Skill check that would not effect a construct (sleeping, mind affecting effects, morale bonuses, etc).

At 3rd level and every four levels thereafter, you gain one Armored Sense Upgrade. These abilities improve as you gain Magitech Templar levels, and function only while you wear your Magitech Armor. You may not choose the same Armored Sense Upgrade more than once. If an Armored Sense Upgrade effect allows a Saving Throw, the Save DC = 10 + 1/2 your Magitech Templar level + your Intelligence bonus. For any other effect that requires it (such as duration or overcoming Spell Resistance), your caster level is your Magitech Templar level, and your primary caster attribute is Intelligence.

Choose one of the following upgrades to your armor:
Spoiler



Imbue Armor (Sp): At 4th level you gain the ability to enchant your Magitech Armor, even if you do not know the spells required to do so. This ability functions like the Warlock's Imbue Item ability, except that it may only be used on to improve your Magitech Armor, and its armor spikes, Power Fist, and Repeating Crossbow (if your armor possesses those Upgrades). The Magitech Templar may make a Craft (Armorsmithing) Check (DC 15 + required spell level) in place of any required spell or Use Magic Device check. This ability only replaces the spellcasting and feat requirements for enchanting - you must still pay the full xp and gp costs. This ability allows you to continue to improve your Magitech Armor (and certain Magitech Upgrades which depend on your Magitech Armor’s enhancement bonus to it’s Armor Class) more easily, even if you later take levels of a class or prestige class other then Magitech Templar.



Armor Expertise (Ex): At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, choose any one of the following benefits. You may choose the same benefit multiple times, and the benefits stack with the benefits from special materials or other Magitech Templar class abilities, including itself:

Spoiler



Armor Transcendence (Ex): When you are wearing your Magitech Armor, you transcend your mortal form and take on many of the characteristics of a Construct. You gain immunity to poison, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects. You are not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain. You are not at risk of death from massive damage. You maintain all of the other features of living beings – you still count as the same type of creature, still have a Constitution score, can be resurrected, and you are still effected by mind affecting effects. You also are not immune to sleep, fatigue, and exhaustion effects unless you have taken the Dauntless Upgrade, and must still breath unless you have take the Underwater Adaptation Upgrade.


Adaptation: Warforged Magitech Templar: Warforged Magitech Templar need not take the Unarmored Body feat in order to wear Magitech Armor. Instead, they may simply designate their armor plating as Magitech Armor. If they do so, it gains all of the normal benefits of Magitech Armor. They may also benefit from feats which modify their armor plating, such as Adamantine Body or Darkwood Body. However, if they use the Transmutation Upgrade to change the type of material that their armor plating is made of, it negates the benefits of any armor plating feats that they have taken until they choose to change it back. For example, if a Warforged Magitech Templar with the Adamantine Body feat used the Transmutation Upgrade to change their armor plating to Mithril, he would cease to gain the benefits of it being Adamantine.

Last edited by Person_Man : 05-06-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
arguskos
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
This is a class that I've previously posted, rewritten, play tested, rewritten, and then play tested some more. Arguskos PM'd me and mentioned that he might wish to include it in his (awesome) homebrew campaign setting, so I figured I should update it again and repost it for feedback.
Looking good there, P_M.

And I appreciate your kindness in giving permission for inclusion of it in my campaign setting, I'm really hoping to find a slot for it that will work well, since it's a great piece of work.

I just thought of something, what about the following cases:
-An illithid MT, do their tentacles count as arms for the purposes of Armor Upgrades (specifically, the Repeating Crossbow/Power Fist ones?)
-If you are non-humanoid and take one level of Magitech Templar, do you gain appropriate armor, despite the absurdly increased cost?
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Last edited by arguskos : 11-17-2010 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Proven_Paradox
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

When I started reading this, I figured it would have similar problems with the Monk--all defense and no offense leads to a weak class. At this point I am pleasantly surprised: you've done a lot to mitigate that.

I would like to see some way for this class to serve more of a protector's role. As is it's a well armored warrior that can't do anything to prevent harm to his allies. This is a problem that pervades 3.5 for any kind of heavy armor class, I know, but this class especially seems lacking without it. Perhaps a line of armor upgrades that allow the Templar to provide Shield Other.


Anyway. The Steam Gnomes of my setting just got a hell of an upgrade.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Pyromancer999
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Excellence.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:14 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Kilbourne
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Is there a facet of this class that allows the Magitech to sleep in their armor, so as to avoid losing all of their class abilities when surprised at night? I remember armor taking several minutes to don, even when assisted.


EDIT: Just wanted to let you know that I think this class is great, I'm immediately going to convert it to Pathfinder so I can give it as an option to my players, should one of their characters die. Also, hopefully I can play as this class when we switch out to a new GM.

Last edited by Kilbourne : 11-18-2010 at 02:31 AM. Reason: Clarity
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:02 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Fizban
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilbourne View Post
Is there a facet of this class that allows the Magitech to sleep in their armor, so as to avoid losing all of their class abilities when surprised at night? I remember armor taking several minutes to don, even when assisted.
There are tons of dirt cheap ways to do this with magic out of pocket, otherwise you could use light armor, Sectioned Armor from the Planar Handbook (which can be reduced to medium or light), or use the Transmutation ability to change your armor into light armor when you go to sleep.

Speaking of the Transmutation ability, I have nothing but praise for it. Fax isn't wussing out with any "one of three specific metals" crap. It's a class ability that lets you turn your armor into anything, so that's exactly what it does. If it's in the campaign setting, it's legit. Bravo.

Anyways. I like all the different armor abilities, and while I would usually want the ability to keep upgrading one over and over, the fact that you can't do that is a nice meta-balance. Since there isn't one super-ability that is always better than the others once upgraded, you aren't forced to take one over the others to be "optimized enough." The 1d4 round cooldown also ensures more of a scaling benefit if you take more than one blasty ability, since it gives you a limitation to overcome (not having an ability available every round -> always having one available).

One ability that I don't like is the Alchemical Ability. Potions suck, and the only thing you're getting is the ability to brew them yourself and avoid an AoO when you should never be drinking potions in combat. I would either improve it to a swift action to use a slotted potion (comparable to a number of feats and class abilities around), or make it special and uncap the level limit so you can have more high level toolkit ability. I would also want to let the Repeating Crossbow ability count as a normal Light Crossbow for prerequisites, simply because there are several feats and abilities that discriminate against repeaters.

I could go for some clarification on how to determine the price of upgrading your armor with +X abilities, and how one replaces a Clockwork Companion. I'd normally figure the cost would be determined separately from the class bonus, adding the class bonus on top afterward (such that no matter what level you are, the cost is the same). As for replacing the CC, probably a day's work with some scrap metal, or maybe a modest price (Animal Companions are free after all). I also wonder if you could take the Ability Focus feat for one of your armor upgrades. They're listed as class abilities, so between that and my desire to do so I would naturally assume yes
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:58 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Kilbourne
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
There are tons of dirt cheap ways to do this with magic out of pocket, otherwise you could use light armor, Sectioned Armor from the Planar Handbook (which can be reduced to medium or light), or use the Transmutation ability to change your armor into light armor when you go to sleep.
I could go for some clarification on how to determine the price of upgrading your armor with +X abilities, and how one replaces a Clockwork Companion. I'd normally figure the cost would be determined separately from the class bonus, adding the class bonus on top afterward (such that no matter what level you are, the cost is the same). As for replacing the CC, probably a day's work with some scrap metal, or maybe a modest price (Animal Companions are free after all). I also wonder if you could take the Ability Focus feat for one of your armor upgrades. They're listed as class abilities, so between that and my desire to do so I would naturally assume yes
You're right, missed that one. Also the Dauntless ability, no longer needing sleep.

Also looking for some more information on those things you asked for as well, so consider this a +1
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

This is awesome, and I need to read this more-in depth as soon as I get some sleep.

Iron Man Paladin Pic = Win
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:52 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Person_Man
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

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Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
And I appreciate your kindness in giving permission for inclusion of it in my campaign setting, I'm really hoping to find a slot for it that will work well, since it's a great piece of work.
Glad I could be of help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
I just thought of something, what about the following cases:
-An illithid MT, do their tentacles count as arms for the purposes of Armor Upgrades (specifically, the Repeating Crossbow/Power Fist ones?)
Tentacles are not arms, so I would say no. And in the illithid's particular case, it seems like the tentacles would be way too small to hold something like a crossbow or a power fist. However, just picturing it is hilariously awesome. If I wanted an NPC to have Power Fist tentacles, I would probably just give it to them. And if a PC really wanted to spend 4 of it's 10 possible Upgrades on it, it's not like it would be unbalanced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
-If you are non-humanoid and take one level of Magitech Templar, do you gain appropriate armor, despite the absurdly increased cost?
Yes, you gain the appropriate armor regardless of your race. Keep in mind that gp costs vary wildly. There are some treasures that are horrifically over priced, and I believe that non-humanoid armor is one of them.

Think of it this way - the best armor a level 1 Magitech Templar can theoretically get at level one is +1 Mechanus Gear (Manual of the Planes pg 69), which is +10 AC, +0 Max Dex bonus. Depending on your Dexterity and whether or not you care about Skills effected by your Armor Check penalty, you might choose to go with something lighter. But unless you're paying for Mithral out of pocket, at best you're getting a total of +11 to your AC. Everyone else in your party is buying Chainmail or something lighter (or finding it in one of their first encounters). Given reasonable Dex scores, they probably have +7ish to AC. So essentially your first level class ability is that you get +4ish to AC. A non-humanoid benefits a bit more, since he probably won't find his Chainmail or whatever by just killing a random orc. But having to suffer through a his first couple of levels with sub-par AC isn't game balance, it's a design flaw.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Proven_Paradox View Post
I would like to see some way for this class to serve more of a protector's role. As is it's a well armored warrior that can't do anything to prevent harm to his allies. This is a problem that pervades 3.5 for any kind of heavy armor class, I know, but this class especially seems lacking without it. Perhaps a line of armor upgrades that allow the Templar to provide Shield Other.
Hmm. That's a good idea. However, I'm having a hard time visualizing how armor could be used to Shield Other. I'll try and think something up. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilbourne View Post
Is there a facet of this class that allows the Magitech to sleep in their armor, so as to avoid losing all of their class abilities when surprised at night? I remember armor taking several minutes to don, even when assisted.
As Fizban helpfully pointed out, there are several ways. The Dauntless Upgrade was specifically written to address this point, in fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilbourne View Post
EDIT: Just wanted to let you know that I think this class is great, I'm immediately going to convert it to Pathfinder so I can give it as an option to my players, should one of their characters die. Also, hopefully I can play as this class when we switch out to a new GM.
I'd be happy to post a Pathfinder version of the class. Is there anything I'd need to convert besides the Skills and how the Bull Rush/Trip/etc checks are resolved?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
One ability that I don't like is the Alchemical Ability. Potions suck, and the only thing you're getting is the ability to brew them yourself and avoid an AoO when you should never be drinking potions in combat. I would either improve it to a swift action to use a slotted potion (comparable to a number of feats and class abilities around), or make it special and uncap the level limit so you can have more high level toolkit ability.
When I play tested this ability I loaded up on potions of Delay Poison, Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil, and Cure Serious Wounds, and it was very handy. Normally it's a Move Action to draw a potion, and a Standard Action to drink it. The Upgrade reduces that down to a single Move Action. Given the fact that lots of his blasty abilities are Standard Actions, this Upgrade let me drink a potion and blast in the same round. I don't want to give the Magitech Templar a huge buff-bot action advantage by making it a Swift Action or allowing him to create potions of Polymorph. But I am open to tweaking the ability. I'll have to rethink it and see what I can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
I would also want to let the Repeating Crossbow ability count as a normal Light Crossbow for prerequisites, simply because there are several feats and abilities that discriminate against repeaters.
I was not aware of that. The change has been made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
I could go for some clarification on how to determine the price of upgrading your armor with +X abilities, and how one replaces a Clockwork Companion. I'd normally figure the cost would be determined separately from the class bonus, adding the class bonus on top afterward (such that no matter what level you are, the cost is the same). As for replacing the CC, probably a day's work with some scrap metal, or maybe a modest price (Animal Companions are free after all). I also wonder if you could take the Ability Focus feat for one of your armor upgrades. They're listed as class abilities, so between that and my desire to do so I would naturally assume yes
Those are excellent ideas. I'm AFB right now, but when I get home I'll clarify the abilities.


Thank you for the kind words and suggestions everyone. I'll be incorporating them into the class some time today. Any additional feedback is most welcome.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:06 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
Proven_Paradox
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

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Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
Hmm. That's a good idea. However, I'm having a hard time visualizing how armor could be used to Shield Other. I'll try and think something up. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions?
Shield Other was just off the top of my head. It's already producing flamethrowers and ice missiles, so visualizing can be "it's just magic."

If you don't want to go that route (understandable) there are still other ways. I'm thinking perhaps an armor upgrade that allows one to incorporate a shield into one's armor or something that starts one down the 'protector' line--a tower shield without the attack penalties would be badass, just off the top of my head. Perhaps include a way to take attacks in place of adjacent allies. Higher level abilities could be something like counting the Templar as a wall that blocks line of sight/effect, making it so allies can literally use him as mobile cover (the Templar is still target-able as normal, of course). Maybe if he has the protector upgrades as well as some of the mobility upgrades, he can take an immediate action to move X squares and push allies out of the range of an attack to take the blow instead.

Last edited by Proven_Paradox : 11-18-2010 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:48 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
togapika
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

But...but...but.... Warforged Warlock....
Awww....
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Kilbourne
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

I adjusted to PFRPG myself, it's actually very simple. If you'd like to do it yourself as well, there is a free pdf on the Paizo website, right here. It's free, I think all you need to do is register at Paizo to grab it.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:16 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Fizban
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

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When I play tested this ability I loaded up on potions of Delay Poison, Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil, and Cure Serious Wounds, and it was very handy. Normally it's a Move Action to draw a potion, and a Standard Action to drink it. The Upgrade reduces that down to a single Move Action. Given the fact that lots of his blasty abilities are Standard Actions, this Upgrade let me drink a potion and blast in the same round. I don't want to give the Magitech Templar a huge buff-bot action advantage by making it a Swift Action or allowing him to create potions of Polymorph. But I am open to tweaking the ability. I'll have to rethink it and see what I can do.
Hmm, I didn't think of it that way. I know a lot of people use Potion Belts or just handwave the action to draw a potion, which is why I didn't consider it a useful part of the ability, but it is a significant advantage in that situation. Mostly I saw that most of the other abilities that were similar to feats or magic were also a bit better, so it encouraged taking the armor one if you really wanted to focus on it. The potion making didn't seem any better than if a spellcaster just took Brew Potion and bought a potion belt, so my reaction was to beef it up. You're right about them turning into buff monsters though, with a swift action I'd expect them to be throwing down a spell every round once they've got the cash, which is less than desirable.

It occurs to me that I forgot potions are normally a standard action, so yes that is a bonus. >.<
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
NineThePuma
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Subscribing. Still love it. Trying to build some characters with it now.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:08 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
LunarWolfPrime
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Love it!

Do you have a epic progression in the works?

An if it where me making this I would add feats that give extra upgrades, but make it to where you have to be at least lvl 10 to take them.

Looks at Krimm Black Leafs feats in his HB thread.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:23 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

This is awesome! One of the coolest classes ever! Also, where'd you get the pic, anyways?
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:18 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Fizban
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

I have a couple more questions/suggestions: what about letting them choose Armored Attack for the Power Fist or Repeating Crossbow instead of Armor Spikes? The Iron Golem class in the Improved Monster Classes thread gains a similar ability to upgrade one of his built in weapons, and having that big juicy die roll on your bow/fist is a nice way to make it unique. Also, what happens if you take Armored Mobility while also having a feat like Armor Specialization, or Heavy Armor Optimization, which only works with a heavier armor? I'm pretty sure rules-wise you'd lose the benefit of your feat, so I'd want to add a "whenever it would benefit you" clause to let people keep their feat benefits. And finally, did you notice that you're giving the armor double it's relevant ability modifier on skill checks by giving them extra ranks? They're also going to have very low modifiers due to stat penalties, and there are a couple places where it sounds like you forgot that you set their stats equal to the class level.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

I'm kind of enderwhelmed by the current power level.

It's a very nice implementation, but you don't get as many actual abilities as a warlock and those abilities are generally both weaker and have a cooldown. I'd presonally like to see either the blast damage going up a notch or some feats to mitigate the recharge times. I'm also inclined to think that a 3/4 BAB, additional upgrade slots and then some buffing abilities [strength increases or enhancement bonuses to attacks].

That said, Repulsor ray is great, it's just not going to work at all often below 20th level...even with 10 dice, the average is only 25... that's a 10ft shift
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:11 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

I think I just had a Nerdgasm.
This is the best Power-Armor class I've seen yet. Better than the engineer, and more versatile than the chozo warrior. Good job.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

I advise renaming Craft Magic Arms and Armor to Imbue Armor, as to avoid confusion over the name due to the fact it does not work like the feat does.

Though really, Magitech intruiges me and the picture is hilarious and great, so this definitely interests me.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
Person_Man
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

OK, made several updates and clarifications:
  • Clarified that the cost of improving your Magitech Armor is calculated separately from the enchantment bonus you gain from class levels (making it a lot cheaper), and put a +5 cap on non-enhancement bonus to AC enchantments, so that you can't get Epic armor pre-epic.
  • Made the Magitech Armor immune to Dispel Magic and similar effects (but not Anit-Magic Field), bumping up the power level a little.
  • Clarified that feats which apply to Spell Like Abilities may be applied individually to Armor.
  • Clarified that it if your Clockwork Animal Companion is killed or you want to replace it, it takes 24 hours, a facility that can make magical armor, and 500 gp.
  • Increased the number of potions that can be stored in your armor with the Alchemy ability from a max of 5 to a max of 10. Having thought more about it, I think it's important to keep the action down to a Move Action and to not uncap the spell level that can be kept in potions. But increasing the number of potions your armor can hold should allow you to plan ahead for a large number of contingencies.
  • Added the Interpose Upgrade. It allows you to block line of sight so that you can protect allies standing behind you. As Proven_Paradox opined, tanks are only useful if you can get enemies to attack you and not your squishy allies. This should help you accomplish that, without stepping on the Knight's niche (Test of Mettle/Aggro) or the Cleric/Paladin niche (Shield Other).
  • Renamed Craft Magic Arms and Armor to Imbue Armor.

Fizban, I rewrote the above before seeing your newest post. Expect another update soon.

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. Will continue to polish the class, and additional commentary is always welcome.
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:31 AM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Fizban
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Ten potions in reserve usable as move actions along with the ability to brew your own should be useful enough for a good while, probably till 10th at least, and none of the abilities are exactly late-game breakers so it's in line with the rest. I like allowing meta-SLA feats for armor abilities, that's something I didn't think of. The only problem is that now the armor abilities need an effective spell level and caster level to determine when you can take them. Or you could make them exempt from those requirements, which seems fine to me since they don't replicate full power spells.

I like the Interpose idea, but I'm unconvinced that a a single 5' cube is going to limit enemies very effectively. Ranged attacks and spells only have to sidestep a little bit to get past, and tall enemies can just attack over you. In an enclosed space you could block lines of attack, but in an open room they can still just walk around you. I don't know what else to do with the ability other than making it duplicate parts of existing builds. Maybe extend the range to all squares within 5 feet? This would let you block a solid 15' (or 20' when large) span, enough to block off more than a narrow hallway, and forcing enemies to actually go around you rather than just eat the attacks of opportunity to get to the squishies. This would allow you to turtle up in a corner and force enemies to target the Templar, which may sound overpowered, but compared to a wall spell with arrow slits I'm not sure it's that bad. Actually, that could use some clarifcation too: you mention both line of sight and line of effect. Do you block one, the other, or both? I'm sure you know it's a serious distinction.

And also: Powerful Build upgrade? You know it's awesome.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:38 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
Nanoblack
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Perhaps another way to go at the protect squishies would be a new line of abilities extending from the deflection ability (though I would prefer a new ability that just gives a deflection bonus to armor class). You could give all allies (I'm thinking adjacent, but within threat range would work also) a deflection bonus equal to half of yours by spreading your shield out. At the same time they would also be covered by a shield other effect.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Another round of updates:
  • Increased the Energy Resistance provided by Energy Shield from twice the Enhancement bonus to your AC (max 10) to four times the Enhancement bonus (max 20). But now it only applies to one energy type at a time. This also adds a new synergy between Energy Shield and Transmutation, in that you can change your Energy Resistance and Armor Type (red dragon scale for Fire, black for Acid, etc) as needed, although doing so in the middle of combat is inefficient.
  • Added Extend Shields upgrade, which allows you to extend your Energy Shield to all allies within 10 feet as an Immediate Action. This should be very handy for protecting them against Fireballs and dragon breath and whatnot (especially in dungeon, when people clump together), as long as you can guess what type of energy your enemy is going to use beforehand.
  • Increased the bonus provided by the Power Jump ability from two times to four times the enhancement bonus to your Magitech Armor’s Armor Class, making it more useful (and a viable alternative to just taking Propulsion for flight, especially if your build depends on Leap Attack and/or Tiger Claw maneuvers).
  • Increased the benefit of taking Propulsion multiple times, in case you really just want to Fly fast.
  • Speed bonus now scales.
  • Improved Spider Climb to make it match that of a monstrous spider, and added immunity to Entangle.
  • Changed how damage is calculated on the Explosive Energy, Flame Thrower, Frost Missile, Flame Thrower, Repulsor Ray, and Water Cannon. They now deal more damage at low levels and the damage is based off of the enhancement bonus to your Magitech Armor’s Armor Class. Thus they are now worthwhile options at low levels, and they're not wasted upgrades if you choose to multi-class. Though it is noteworthy that the Save DC is based on your Magitech Templar level, giving you an incentive to go Magitech Templar 20 (or to max out your Int).


Changes were significant enough that I upgraded the class to Mark VIIII. Here's the old Mark VIII Armor if you'd liked it better, or want to compare (sorry I had to put it here - I was limited on the number of characters I could use in each post).

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Will be making yet another round of changes to address comments soon. (Thanksgiving got in the way of my writing)

Last edited by Person_Man : 11-27-2010 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:59 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
NineThePuma
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

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Changes were significant enough that I upgraded the class to Mark VIIII.
Mark IX, kthnx bai.

Sorry, roman numeral errors really jar me. ^^ I'll look at the changes in a second.

EDIT:

Out of curiosity, can you enhance your armor magically in a separate (more normal) enchantment process in addition to the class boosts?
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Fizban
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

I think the Water Cannon might have got nerfed in that last update. It only hits one target for a maximum of 5d6 with a knockback effect.

Was wondering how scaling off the enhancement bonus was supposed to be multiclassing friendly, and re-read this sentence:
"However, Magitech Armor may never have an enhancement bonus to it's Armor Class higher than the Magitech Templar's effective class level (all class and prestige class levels + level adjustment + racial hit dice) divided by 4 (rounded up)."
I think you meant Effective Character Level there. That does make the class a lot more multiclass friendly, indeed.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:19 AM   Top  -  End  -  #27
arguskos
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

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Mark IX, kthnx bai.

Sorry, roman numeral errors really jar me. ^^ I'll look at the changes in a second.
There are known period examples of IV and IIII, as well as IX and VIIII. We today tend to believe that IV and IX are the strictly correct versions, but that's not actually true, as they people of the time seem to be a little more lax about it. Personally, I like IIII and IX, but that's just me.

/historyminor
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:40 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
NineThePuma
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Period correct vs "modern correct" and I go modern. IX is the more frequently viewed and easier read. While VIIII is just as understandable, it is also momentarily confusing to most. Hence my response, tho you ARE right.

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Old 11-28-2010, 03:43 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
arguskos
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

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Period correct vs "modern correct" and I go modern. IX is the more frequently viewed and easier read. While VIIII is just as understandable, it is also momentarily confusing to most. Hence my response, tho you ARE right.

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Well, the point is more that there IS no period correct depiction of 4 and 9 in Roman numerals, in fact, there's quite a bit of debate as to what the Romans themselves would say when asked. Besides, I just like nitpicking on stuff like that.

Like I said, in this case, I personally prefer IX anyways. Any excuse to use "X" in a class title.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:54 AM   Top  -  End  -  #30
NineThePuma
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Default Re: [3.5] Magitech Templar - Iron Man

Looking over this, the armor's enhancement could totally be sacred/profane =O
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