Fun Down On the Farmpunk: Join in!

[cheezewizz2000]

Originally Posted by dsmiles

I've seen this word before. I think the Toon RPG used it as a Charisma-like stat.

Well, it was either that or Cojones. They mean effectively the same thing. Mightyness could have been used, but didn't seem... cool enough. Moxie is a possibility, but that's used by KoL as a dex/cha-like stat.

Originally Posted by dsmiles

On the topic of potions/booze/whatever, what about the selling of "Snake Oil," to be made/sold by the rogue-types. Maybe it could have booze-like effects, at a lower power level and/or shorter duration. A Lesser version of the potion, as it were.

I'd like to see snake-oil go from completely useless in the city to the equivalent of potions of heal out in the wild.

[Eldan]

Lookin' good on the booze.

So, as always, commuting gives me a lot of time to think (when I don't fall asleep). A few things come later. However, here's one thing:

The Talent system.
Basically, if we use an E6 system, that means every class gets only three talents. That's, well, a little boring.

So, two suggestions.
1) E7 system. Not much of a change in general strength, but classes get three bonus feats and four talents.

2) Scaling talents. Here's how:
Generally, every talent gives a new ability, not just a mechanical bonus, because those are boring and are better handled in other ways. Every talent has three levels: Basic, Improved, Mastered.
At level 1, you choose one basic talent. (1 basic) At level 3, you choose a second basic talent, and increase one of them to improved (1 basic, 1 improved). At level 5, you choose two more talents, and increase another one to improved (2 basic, 2 improved). At level 7, you gain one new talent, increase another one to improved, and one improved one to master (2 basic, 2 improved, 1 master).

So, talents would look like this (simplified Stranger talent):

Burning Eyes

Basic: You can use a swift action to demoralize opponents with the intimidate skill, instead of a standard action.
Improved: As a move action, you can demoralize all opponents within 60 feet instead of just one. You can demoralize a single opponent for 1d6 rounds, instead of a single round.
Master: As a move action, you can make an intimidate check against a single opponent to either make them panic for 1d6 rounds or immobilize them, making them unable to move. They can make a will save (DC 14+your charisma modifier) to resist.

[cheezewizz2000]

I really like that system. If it's the only source of character abilites, then there needs to be no penalties for multiclassing. A level 2 character with 2 classes will have 2 basic abilities, but won't get an improved one until level 4 and will never get a master ability. 7 levels with 7 classes means a character has a lot of very basic options, but nothing outstanding. Here are some example hobilities that might work (they, of course, only work if the hobo has had some moonshine):

Hobilities

The Willies
Basic: The hobo can detect the presence of people who work for the guv'ment or the administration as a free action within a 10' radius. He may not tell direction, number, or power. It feels like he just got sober all of a sudden. Creepy.
Improved: The hobo can give a good hiding to members of the guv'ment or the administration. He adds his spunk (charisma) bonus to attack rolls and his hobo level to damage. He may do this a number of times per day equal to his hobo level + his spunk bonus.
Master: The hobo can now detect exactly who works for the guv'ment or the administration as a free action within a 20' cone. Any critical hits he rolls against them automatically confirm.

That's my train
Basic: The hobo can utter the words "that's my train". A train will conviently pull up at the nearest station within the next ten minutes. The hobo will only make it in the nick of time and will have to run along side it to get on it, requiring a DC 13 tumble check. Guards are likely to try to stop him if they see him. If he is at a station with no train, there will conviently have always been one there that he didn't spot.
Improved: When the hobo says "that's my train", the train that pulls up to the nearest station will need to fill its water tank. The hobo will make it in enough time to get on comfortably before it pulls away. Guards are still likely to stop him if they spot him.
Master: When the hobo says "that's my train", the train that pulls up to the nearest station needs to fill its water tanks. The station guards are drunk, and the guards on the train are too tired to check the cargo carriages.

[Eldan]

Our first monster.


Also, Gunman abilities:

Two-hands
Basic: The Gunman can hold and fire a one-handed firearm in each hand, as if they had the two-weapon fighting feat, but without the -2 penalty for two weapons.
Improved: The Gunman can reload one-handed weapons even if his offhand isn't free.
Master: The Gunman can fire a single shot from one weapon in his main hand and one from his off-hand as an attack or standard action, with no penalty.

[ChumpLump]

Not terribly keen on the line 'The Hobo will never make it on time.' Right now it seems to make the... thing... less powerful, to the point of useless.

[cheezewizz2000]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Two-hands
Basic: The Gunman can hold and fire a one-handed firearm in each hand, as if they had the two-weapon fighting feat, but without the -2 penalty for two weapons.
Improved: The Gunman can reload one-handed weapons even if his offhand isn't free.
Master: The Gunman can fire a single shot from one weapon in his main hand and one from his off-hand as an attack or standard action, with no penalty.

I'm not seeing the difference between basic and master. Are you saying that at basic, they can HOLD two weapons and attack with one with no penalty and at master they can attack with both at no penalty?

For basic, I'd just say that they are given the two weapon fighting feat for free and at master remove the penalties to attack when using two firearms. I like improved though. Failing that, for master, allow them to use two handed weapons in one hand. Twin double-barrelled shotguns, anyone? And no worries reloading, either...

Originally Posted by ChumpLump

Not terribly keen on the line 'The Hobo will never make it on time.' Right now it seems to make the... thing... less powerful, to the point of useless.

Came across wrong. I mean he makes it just as the train pulls away, so he has to run alongside a little to get in. Edited for clarity and elaboration.

[Eldan]

On master they can attack with both as one action.

Two-weapon fighting allows you to fire two weapons as part of a full-attack action. Master allows it as a single action, say after a move.

[Eldan]

How about a magic item:

Named Bullet

There's a bullet out there with your name on it...

A named bullet is a silver bullet which adds +1 to hit and damage. Furthermore, it has the name of a specific person inscribed on it. Against that person, it has a critical chance of 16-20/x3 (or that of the base weapon, if it is better), and adds +4 to critical hit confirmation.

[Mulletmanalive]

I really like the core themes here. I'm hoping that the sense of alevolence in the city conception can be tempered by the whimsey and good humoured contempt i've seen in series where good'ol'boys are confronted by people from the cities.

I'm waiting on the crunch before i have a more in-depth oppinion, simply because i'll be judging your success based on my farm hand's ability to get adice from his hog about wooing Betty Lou and my Good'ol'boy Rascal's ability to dodge john q lawman in his pony trap with go-faster-stripe and its ability to jump broken bridges...

[cheezewizz2000]

How many abilities should we aim for per class? They can pick and chose up to 5 as they level, so should we aim for 8-10 trees for flexibilitiy? This means 24 to 30 different abilities per class. I'm not complaining, it's just an observation.

[gkathellar]

E7? Not E9?

I like the scaling talents idea, although I don't see why we have to stand by d20 Modern/Saga's talent-every-other-level scheme. Why not a talent every level, a bonus feat every even-numbered level, and a talent improvement every odd-numbered level starting with 3rd?

Also, I was sketching out some basic ideas for talent "trees" as they were - what kinds of talents each class would be able to get, working under the assumption that each class would have four trees. The question marks mean I couldn't think of anything to fill a slot. I'll post them in a spoiler.

Spoiler

Wilderness Man - Uniquely familiar with the Wild and its dangers, the wilderness man uses physical power and hard-earned cunning to be the ultimate survivor.

Bunyan Tree - Achieving unsurpassed strength and power.
Terrain Tree - Using the land to one's advantage effectively.
Brute Tree - Forceful melee combat, armed and unarmed.
Herbalism Tree - Knowing the dangers and uses of plants.

Gunman - An adaptable crack shot with lightning-fast reflexes, the gunman uses deadly weapons and tactical knowledge to turn the space between him and his opponents into a hailstorm of lead.

Ownership Tree - Owning and maintaining guns.
Sniper Tree - Accuracy, firing at great distance, etc.
Tactics Tree - Cover, ambushes, teamwork, etc.
Gunfighter Tree - Adaptability and lightning reflexes.

Engineer - Experts in whatever crafts they study, the engineer is a master of building, repairing and taking things apart, putting their creations to any use they can imagine.

Quickpunk Tree - Spit-and-chicken wire style improvisation.
Slikkerpunk Tree - Machines, factory and steam technology.
Hammerpunk Tree - Forging, carpentry, solid construction.
Farmpunk Tree - Agriculture, chemistry and land-knowledge.

Doctor - Trained in the art of medicine, the doctor is a font of scientific and esoteric knowledge about the living body, healing, injury and organic processes.

Physick Tree - The many tools and uses of modern medicine.
Anatomy Tree - Knowing one's way around living bodies.
Medicine Tree - Folk remedies, powers like blood-stopping.
?

Priest - Gifted with driving faith in a religion, god or similar ideal, the priest is a pillar of spiritual fortitude whose religiosity gives all the more strength with which to face the darkness.

Exorcism Tree - Locating and banishing spirits and powers.
Preacher Tree - Inspire allies with word and deed alike.
Conviction Tree - Call on desperate strength when in need.
Sacrament Tree - Creating and using "blessed" objects.

Vagabond - Drifting through the world's back-corridors with naught but grit and wisdom, the vagabond is a mystic and vagrant, made enlightened to civilization's mysteries by living at its edges.

Railway Tree - Knowing the rails and their peculiar magic.
Drunkenness Tree - Gain extraordinary effects from whiskey.
Forgotten Tree - Indoctrination into society's forgotten sectors.
Lint Tree - Always having just the right thing in your pocket.

Gangster - Whether a genuine criminal or simply possessed of unseemly skills, the gangster is a rough-and-tumble character more than capable of surviving on the wrong side of the law.

Brawling Tree - Dirty fighting and improvised weapons.
Coercion Tree - Intimidation, persuasion, public appearance.
Underworld Tree - Contacts and knowledge of criminal life.
Automotive Tree - Skill with cars and driving them.

Stranger - Touched by a powerful supernatural entity, the stranger is possessed of mysterious powers and the devil's own luck to aid them in their times of need.

Beguiling Tree - Manipulating the minds of other creatures.
Fortune Tree - Creating and giving luck, both good and bad.
Omens Tree - Recognizing, repelling and calling bad signs.
Resilience Tree - Inhuman endurance and healing ability.

Rascal - Roguish and capable of overcoming any challenge with wit and cunning alone, the rascal has a conman's silver tongue, a card cheat's hands and a something something something.

Gambling Tree - Bluff, trick and cheat through any competition.
Charlatan Tree - Make anyone believe anything they're told.
Prestidigitation Tree - Fast hands and faster eyes.
Foolhardy Tree - Benefit beyond reason from insane risks.

[Eldan]

I'd rather have more than four trees for most classes, really. But the basic ideas are solid.

I thought about E7 for now, but there's no reason why we can't go higher.

[gkathellar]

A tree would be made up of several scaling talents, mind.

[Vaynor]

Have you considered using Keith Baker's Gleaner? I think it would fit pretty well in this setting.

(Apologies if this has already been posted, I haven't read the thread)

[cheezewizz2000]

Ok, so instead of coming up with 8-10 talent trees for each class, howabout 4 unique trees for each class, and some common trees that any class can take.

Common trees could include:
Music
Fighting (simple maneuvres to use in melee)
Shooting (trick shots)
Athletics (running faster, jumping further etc)
Agility (dodging attacks, irregular charges)
Sneaking (roguelike abilities, bonuses to hiding)
Spotter (avoiding suprise rounds, bonuses to spot checks)

Cuts down on work, and means less "throwaway" trees that will inevitably be created just to fill space.

[gkathellar]

Would those be talents, or feats? If talents are meant to be selectable class abilities, it seems like feats would be generally accessible tricks and bonuses. Not sure, though.

[Eldan]

Most of those would be done via feats, I'd assume.

[IcarusWings]

I think it would be better to, instead of making loads of trees, make the trees longer and less of them, so that a character can specialize. After all, if an Engineer wants to only do Farmpunk, they don't want to have to take some Slikkerpunk talents as well just due to the fact that they have too little talents.

[gkathellar]

I was thinking maybe 5 talents per tree? That way, your farmer character could get all the Farmpunk talents, spend all your talent improvements on Farmpunk, and pick up a couple of Hammerpunk and Quickpunk talents (both of which fit elements of the "farmer" archetype). Or you could multiclass to wilderness man, and pick up some terrain/herbalism talents.

[IcarusWings]

Originally Posted by gkathellar

I was thinking maybe 5 talents per tree? That way, your farmer character could get all the Farmpunk talents, spend all your talent improvements on Farmpunk, and pick up a couple of Hammerpunk and Quickpunk talents (both of which fit elements of the "farmer" archetype). Or you could multiclass to wilderness man, and pick up some terrain/herbalism talents.

With the way people seem to be talking about the system, characters will only get four talents (as it is E7 or 9), and while five talents would technically be enough. I'd still prefer it if there was more choice in a tree (upping it to 8-12 would be the best IMO)

[Admiral Squish]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to get involved now. I've already got like eight projects, but NO, you guys had to go make some kinda awesome ameripunk setting and I simply cannot resist. Thanks a lot, guys...

[Eldan]

No problem


Anyway. I think I've seen too much Supernatural, lately (thanks, Tribble. Been some time since I've seen a good TV series), but:

Rocksalt Slug

This slug is filled with rocksalt instead of lead shot. These slugs bypass damage reduction as if they were magical. Furthermore, any creature with fast healing or regeneration shot with Rock salt loses that ability for 24 hours (however, if it is killed during that time, it can still regenerate the next day).
To creature without DR/magic, however, the rocksalt slug only deals half damage.

[Science Officer]

For reference, SWSE has 4 talent trees for each class, with an average of 5 in each. Of course, this is just the core book. Splatbooks probably bring it up to around 5-6 talent trees with maybe around seven on average.

Of course, only base classes follow the talent, feat, talent, feat, talent,... pattern.

Prestige classes could have a talent every level (and no bonus feats), or fewer talents and more bonus feats.

Also, found this while digging around wikipedia. I'm sure there's a few of those somewhere out in the wild...

[Eldan]

Awright...

Trout-fur coat

This warm coat is made entirely from the hides of the furry trout and, therefore, extremely warm. It gives a +4 save against all effects of cold or wet weather, but a -4 on all saves against warm weather when worn.

[gkathellar]

Originally Posted by Science Officer

For reference, SWSE has 4 talent trees for each class, with an average of 5 in each. Of course, this is just the core book. Splatbooks probably bring it up to around 5-6 talent trees with maybe around seven on average.

Of course, only base classes follow the talent, feat, talent, feat, talent,... pattern.

Prestige classes could have a talent every level (and no bonus feats), or fewer talents and more bonus feats.

A model we can, of course, deviate from as much as we want.

Originally Posted by Science Officer

Also, found this while digging around wikipedia. I'm sure there's a few of those somewhere out in the wild...

Basically though this post is just an excuse to go nuts over how awesome you are. Axehandle hounds are my new favorite cryptids.

[Eldan]

We also need a farmer/lumberjack talent called "Wild Tales". I don't care what it does, we just need it.

[dsmiles]

Originally Posted by Eldan

We also need a farmer/lumberjack talent called "Wild Tales". I don't care what it does, we just need it.

I think "Tall Tales" would be more authentic for the Ameripunk lexicon. But, yeah. Gotta have it!

[Morph Bark]

Originally Posted by gkathellar

A model we can, of course, deviate from as much as we want.

Definitely. Another possibility is to have slight variations on the model for each class, as with 3.5's Generic Classes from Unearthed Arcana, though of course with more variations due to more classes.

[Science Officer]

Tall tales you say?

Spoiler

"Now at that par-ticler juncture I had been out in yonder desert for nigh on four days. And I must say, I was rather powerful thirsty. Luckily I found a river running through a slot canyon.

Any y'all ever seen a box canyon afore? They're about as wide as a man is tall and the walls are higher than any big city buildings. Weave through the mountains where a river's worn them out. Like a' said beautiful, all a-painted in blacks, browns, and red by the desert varnish.

Now, as my eyes was wandering, taking in the scenery, I saw some mighty peculiar scratchings in them canyon walls. I'd wandered pretty far into this canyon, the shade and water had had an effect on me, you might say. If I recall, I may have even taken a siesta right there. But those carvings on the cliff shur as heck woke me up.

See, those were the work of the Natives. Every lunar cycle or summer solstice or the devil if I know when, their medicine men go up on their sacred mountains or cliffs or canyons or whatnot and carve and paint on the rock. Pictures of they gods and all manner of strange symbols. Now these are strange enough to give me the willies in any situation, but right then I was five days out in the wild, exhausted, sunburnt, half-starved, and half a mile up some Natives' sacred canyon. I tell you, I turned round and ran out of their.

But just then as I turned I saw, off in the distance, a cloud of dirt rising up to the sky. Them Natives must'a found my tracks, saw them leading here, and got awful mad about it. Now, I reckon there couldn't ha' been less than fifty of them by the sound they was making. This was mighty unfortunate, seeing as I had all of two bullets.

My only hope was to scare them off. Maybe, just maybe, I was so far out in the Wild that these Natives ain't a never heard of gunpowder before. As the warband came closer, I raised my gun, aimed all careful-like and squeezed the trigger. Nothing. That gun had served me on the frontiers all my life and never jammed before. The natives rushed closer, they were getting real loud. I could see their faces. Mad as nest of hornets, every one of them.

I loaded my other bullet. My heart beating fit to beat the band, I raised it once more, said a prayer, and fired again. This one went. I tell you, the look on their faces, well, it ain't fit to describe. But they didn't stop riding towards me, nosirree.

So there I was, at the mouth of the slot canyon, nothing but cliffs behind me and a whole hundred of furious Natives in front of me, six days walk from civilization, no food, no water, and no bullets."

"How did you get out, mister?"

"I didn't. They kill't me."

I apologise for mangling dialects, I'm Canadian (though I have been south a few times).

[Shyftir]

I think its time for me to poke in a small suggestion that leads a more talented person to come up with a whole set of mechanics that rock, but I can't for the life of me think o' nuthin' right now.

Maybe we ditch levels and just have various talents/feats that can be taken based on your original arch-type including rules/feats for adding another arch-type?

This way instead of leveling you just get. "Legend Points" which you spend on increasing your legend (i.e. abilities)

Then have certain talents/feats only available to people with a certain amount of "Legendary status" (number of Legend points accumulated).

Just some ideas.