Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

[Draz74]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Heavy mace: it's the hardest weapon to sunder, and it's damage is fine, but it has a worse crit than the martial weapons.

Morningstar: no, it's a cheap heavy mace that's easy to sunder.

Morningstar is arguably better than Heavy Mace; it may be easier to sunder, but it also overcomes more Damage Reduction types.

Not that most Warblades should ever consider using either of them.

[navar100]

Originally Posted by Hawk7915

Devil's advocate: Why is Vital Recovery red while Improved Toughness gets black? True Vital Recovery is reactive but as a primary frontliner in most campaigns, you only need to Vital Surge once a day to have it provide more HP than Improved Toughness (assuming you are pure, or mostly pure, Warblade obviously). If you have a standard four encounters it's a ton of bonus healing which saves your cleric or druid resources. Also, it is always at least equal to Crusader strike and quickly gets better (1d6+1 averages to 4; Vital Recovery heals 4), especially because instead of chewing up a maneuver readied it provides healing when you refresh your other, better maneuvers.

I'm not arguing that Vital Recovery is particularly great or anything; a non-human Warblade probably has better ways to spend their 7 feats. I just don't think it's unplayably awful for someone looking to mooch a bit of extra survivability out of their build (at least Purple, maybe Black). Then again, I haven't played Warblades at really high levels so maybe at 10+ you just never need to recover maneuvers anymore?

I like Vital Recovery. At low levels it's like a free potion of Cure Light Wounds. At mid levels it's a free potion of Cure Moderate Wounds. I think a crusader benefits more from it than a warblade because of steely resolve, but it's still nice to have. It helps a warblade more if you use Punishing Stance since the -2 to AC will matter over time.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Draz74

Morningstar is arguably better than Heavy Mace; it may be easier to sunder, but it also overcomes more Damage Reduction types.

Not that most Warblades should ever consider using either of them.

What has DR/piercing other than spearblock armor? Besides, the heavy mace is a solid choice, cause the worse crit is one less damage roll, and that's if you succeed on the threat roll.

More sword rack stuff:

Light pick: meh, better with the keen property, but still not very good.

Spear: the damage is low for a two handed weapon, but it makes up for it in flexibility, as it can be thrown or braced against a charge.

Dwarven urgrosh: meh, it's worse than a spear, and sucks up a feat(if not two). However, if you're a dwarf, and have weapon familiarity, it's much better.

[Runestar]

What has DR/piercing other than spearblock armor? Besides, the heavy mace is a solid choice, cause the worse crit is one less damage roll, and that's if you succeed on the threat roll.

Raksasha comes to mind, though its kinda moot if you aren't also using a holy weapon.

As the frost spell from PHB2 grants dr magic piercing.

Though as a warblade, you do have a few ways of overcoming dr, from mountain hammer to shards of granite.

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

More weapons for the sword rack.

Halberd: a fine weapon, it has the trip ability. Much better for battlefield controllers without improved trip.

Flail and heavy flail: like the halberd, these are much better for battlefield controllers without improved trip.

I'm not sure any non-reach weapons come of as gold for battlefield controllers. Reach is the king.

Which reminds me:

Guisarme. Trip & reach, short'n'sweet. The basic reach weapon unless/until you grab EWP for Spiked Chain.

Glaive. Reach and slightly better damage than the other martial reach weapons. Okay, but the special abilities with the others are probably better.

Ranseur. Reach and disarm bonus. Disarm isn't the best technique ever, but against other medium humanoids it can do okay. Reach means an enemy without a reach weapon of her own won't be able to claim the AoO trying to disarm normally provokes.

Lance. Reach. Much better for a mounted combatant, but don't wield it in one hand even if you could.

[Essence_of_War]

Tetsuko - Wandering Ronin

An example of how to build a flavorful and mechanically useful samurai type character using ToB. There are a large number of ways to PO a character like this, but I've made some deliberate sacrifices for utility and also to demonstrate how low the "optimization ceiling" is for ToB characters to still be useful.

Build:

Spoiler

Tetsuko - Wandering Ronin
Human Paragon 2/Warblade18
Base Stats: Str 16 Dex 13 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 9 Cha 8
(Boost the hell out of strength to maximize your charges)

Human paragon is to get adaptive learning and a bonus feat. If you're playing with PF type skills, choose your adaptive skill to be perception. If not, Listen is a strong choice and fits well with the finely tuned senses trope of the samurai.

Feat Progression:

Spoiler

HumanPara1 - Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Prof.
HumanPara2 - Imp. Unarmed Strike
Warblade1 - Imp. Bull Rush
Warblade2 -
Warblade3 -
Warblade4 - Leap Attack
Warblade5 - Improved Initiative,
Warblade6 -
Warblade7 - Shock Trooper
Warblade8 -
Warblade9 - Quick Draw,
Warblade10 - Adaptive Style
Warblade11 -
Warblade12 -
Warblade13 - Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit
Warblade14 -
Warblade15 -
Warblade16 - Close Quarters Fighting
Warblade17 - Blind-Fight
Warblade18 -

Maneuvers:

Spoiler

Here's one example to shoot for:
1 - Moment of Perfect Mind (DM, Counter)
2 - Wall of Blades (IH, Counter)
3 - Iron Heart Surge (IH,-)
4 -
5 - Iron Heart Focus (IH, Counter)
6 - Moment of Alacrity (DM, Boost)
7 - Quicksilver Motion (DM, Boost); Finishing Move (IH, Strike)
8 - Adamantine Hurricane (IH, Strike); DNB (DM, Strike); Lightning Throw (IH, Strike)
9 - Strike of Perf. Clarity (IH, Strike); Time Stands Still (DM, Strike)

Stances:

Spoiler

Stances:
1. Leading the Charge
2. Punishing Stance
3. Hearing the Air
4. Stance of Alacrity

Skills:

Spoiler

You should have something like 161 skill points by 20th level, and you gain 7 skp/level more or less uniformly. Obviously you want to boost whatever your adaptive skill is, I chose listen. Other important skills are given in the handbook, but I'd be sure to nab at least 15 ranks in tumble and 5 ranks in balance. There are some useful skill tricks to consider also.

1. Back on your feet - go from prone to on your feet as an immediate action
2. Extreme Leap - get extra distance on a charge
3. Nimble Charge - Awesome, you can charge over difficult terrain!
4. Listen to This - not very mechanically useful, but helpful given your listen ranks
5. Twisted Charge - Frees up a maneuver so you don't need to take bounding assault.
6. Never Outnumbered - if you're pumping intimidate anyway, this is a good choice.

I chose the feats to get Shock Trooper charging online as quickly as possible while also having room for a bunch of utility feats. I think that it is fine to take Reflexes and Robilar's at the same level as long as you take them in the correct order. Only thing of dubious utility might be Adaptive Style/CQF. You could cut those to pick up Imp. Sunder and Combat Brute to have an awesome post-charge followup. Makes you perhaps a little less well rounded though.

You have a mix of powerful strikes, amazing boosts, and effective counters.
MoPM is basically non-negotiable for having up all of the time. Otherwise ready 2-3 strikes, and fill in the rest with counters and boosts. Adamantine Hurricane is only necessary when you think you'll be facing down a hoard. I'd ready something like:
1. Time Stands Still
2. Strike of Perfect Clarity
3. Quicksilver Motion
4. Moment of Alacrity
5. Wall of Blades
6. Moment of Perfect Mind
You have two amazing strikes, 2 useful boosts, 2 very useful counters.
It is kind of annoying to blindfold yourself, so I'd spend most of my time in
hearing the air, and switch to stance of alacrity if there is a chance to need to use two counters a round.

So what can you do with a character like this? In a party, he can take on the role of a primary melee damage dealer. He can charge for huge damage, skirmish with DM/IH maneuvers, and defend allies with combat reflexes and Robilar's Gambit. He isn't a tripper, but you can see how you could move 1 or 2 feats around to give him that ability and customize for your own favorite purposes. In a solo game, he has access to enough skills to be useful in social settings, boldly work through combat encounters, and generally be a lot of fun playing a wandering samurai/ronin. I envisioned this guy as a wandering samurai, so I picked Exotic Weapon Proficiency so that he could use a bastard sword in one or two hands. Early in his career, weapon and shield is actually quite efficient, later on, when charging is turned on, try to find an animated shield or ditch the shield entirely.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Greenish

I'm not sure any non-reach weapons come of as gold for battlefield controllers. Reach is the king.

I don't like reach, unless you can also attack adjacent foes, like the the spiked chain can.

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

I don't like reach, unless you can also attack adjacent foes, like the the spiked chain can.

You don't have to like it, but even though reach & near is ideal, when forced to pick one or the other, reach is better for battlefield control, and for most other purposes too.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Greenish

You don't have to like it, but even though reach & near is ideal, when forced to pick one or the other, reach is better for battlefield control, and for most other purposes too.

Actually, I just figured out how to get both, wear a spiked gauntlet or armor spikes!

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Actually, I just figured out how to get both, wear a spiked gauntlet or armor spikes!

You don't say.

[Jade Dragon]

Not much damage though.

[Uhtred]

I just discovered this thread and wish I'd found it months ago when my friend started his campaign, although I'm not sure I would have changed my build. I built a Centaur Fighter who just took his first level of Warblade (his Fighter levels half-stack with his Warblade level for purposes of Initiator level! YUSSS!!!) and I don't regret a thing. At level 11 he's well on his way to being one of the most versatile and powerful warriors I've ever seen, and I'm a little disappointed to see the feats in the Weapon Focus tree getting pooped on. With Weapon Aptitude (And, more importantly, the Aptitude enchant outlined in ToB) those feats can apply to literally any weapon I use for an hour (the hour isn't necessary with the enchant. :P) so that "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword" feat that I took at the very beginning so I could dual-wield it with a heavy spiked shield have officially come into their own. I recently enchanted that bastard sword with Aptitude, Metalline, and Morphing, so not only can that sword be any weapon in its size range, but the EWP feat will apply to it, along with Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Focus apply to it. That means that while dual-wielding (I have Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity) instead of taking -2/-2 penalties, I get a +1 BONUS with that first attack. When I put Aptitude on my shield (it has Bashing and Animated already) It'll be a +1 on BOTH. Metalline means it'll be made of whatever material suits me, also. Combine that with my Tiger Claw Dual-Wielding Maneuvers and my Bracers of Quick Striking and once I get to Supremacy (Which will apply to both shield and sword) I will be VERY, VERY mean. :)

[Jade Dragon]

Uh... ambidexterity isn't in 3.5.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Uh... ambidexterity isn't in 3.5.

Which is to say that Ambidexterity got rolled into Two-Weapon Fighting, so you have a free feat slot, sir or madam.

[Jade Dragon]

More sword rack stuff:

Net and bolas: excellent for battlefield controllers, otherwise don't touch these.

Trident: Better for battlefield controllers, but there are better choices whether you are one or not.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

More sword rack stuff:

Net and bolas: excellent for battlefield controllers, otherwise don't touch these.

Trident: Better for battlefield controllers, but there are better choices whether you are one or not.

Nets are awesome since they are a touch attack, and thus you don't need the EWP.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse

Nets are awesome since they are a touch attack, and thus you don't need the EWP.

It takes longer to fold it up for another use without EWP though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Err I don't have the book handy and I am too lzay to look up in the SRD but I am sure they are cheap enough to have some spare ones even at lower level.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse

Err I don't have the book handy and I am too lzay to look up in the SRD but I am sure they are cheap enough to have some spare ones even at lower level.

They're 20 gp, so you can get one or two more.

More sword rack stuff:

Spiked gauntlet: not good unless you either wield a reach weapon or do THFing and have wolf fang strike, in which case it's much better(unless you have superior unarmed strike). However, if you don't have that, you're still always counted as being armed. This is Much worse if you have quick draw and don't do the reach or THFing thing.

Sickle: more damage than the dagger, and trip as well, excellent for a battlefield controller who dual-wields.

[Uhtred]

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

Which is to say that Ambidexterity got rolled into Two-Weapon Fighting, so you have a free feat slot, sir or madam.

I was confused about Ambidexterity too, since I couldn't find it in any of the books, but figured it was in, like Sword and Fist or something. My DM told me that using my heavy, spiked steel shield to bash was the equivalent of a martial one-handed weapon and ruled that if I intended to use it in combination with the bastard sword I would need to take Ambidexterity in order to bring the off-hand penalty down to -2. If Ambidexterity got rolled into Two-Weapon Fighting, which says my off-hand weapon has to be light in order to get penalty down to -2, then I have to switch out Ambidexterity for Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (Complete Warrior), which says I can use a one-handed weapon instead of a light one and still only take a -2 penalty.

I also find that despite expressing strong views in regards to the Weapon Focus Feat tree that run counter to the ones expressed in this thread, making a strong argument for their versatility in a Fighter/Warblade combo build, it's the presence of Ambidexterity that gets commented on.

Also, I'm a sir.

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Spiked gauntlet: not good unless you either wield a reach weapon or do THFing and have wolf fang strike, in which case it's much better(unless you have superior unarmed strike).

Spiked Gauntlet means being armed practically all the time, and offers a nice platform for weapon enhancements such as Warning (once you got the money for such utility).

Originally Posted by Uhtred

I also find that despite expressing strong views in regards to the Weapon Focus Feat tree that run counter to the ones expressed in this thread, making a strong argument for their versatility in a Fighter/Warblade combo build, it's the presence of Ambidexterity that gets commented on.

Well, what do you want to hear? "Good job on blowing three feats for +2 attack/damage with a single type of weapon"?

[Uhtred]

My point is that with the incredibly underrated Aptitude enchantment combined with the Weapon Focus feats I have now, instead of just having +3 AB, +6 to damage to one weapon, I can have it for ALL OF THEM. Heck, with Weapon Aptitude as a class feature, if I know I'm facing something that's immune to slashing damage or whatnot I can practice for an hour and transfer that to a different weapon if I want. Once I get Supremacy, I'll be looking at a +5 to any attack that isn't my first attack, a +4 vs being disarmed, a +1 to AC, and being able to wield my weapon in grapple at no penalty, and being able to perform a full attack while grappled with the chosen weapon, which, with Aptitude, will be all of them. It's a +1 enchantment. It's stupid NOT to put it on everything I own.
I was just pointing out that with a Warblade, the Weapon Focus tree isn't as wasted as it is on a fighter because it adds new layers of versatility to an already incredibly versatile warrior. If I were building a character that was focusing on dealing one kind of damage and one kind of damage only, it wouldn't be worth it. However, my Centaur has been built to be a very adaptable warrior that can adjust to any of the messed-up combat situations our DM is fond of throwing us into now we're past level 10, and Weapon Aptitude and it's accompanying enchantment is, I feel, a far more valuable asset to a well-rounded warrior than it's given credit for.

[MrRigger]

Personally, I prefer Transmuting (+2 weapon enhancement) from the MIC for bypassing Damage Reduction, rather than having to guess what my DM is going to throw at me.

MrRigger

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Uhtred

My point is that with the incredibly underrated Aptitude enchantment

Aptitude weapon is underrated? Which forums have you been reading?

Originally Posted by Uhtred

combined with the Weapon Focus feats I have now, instead of just having +3 AB, +6 to damage to one weapon, I can have it for ALL OF THEM.

WF, WS & GWF give you +2 to attack and damage. GWS would boost that to +4 to damage. That's quite a few feats for the privilege of paying more money for your weapons.

Originally Posted by Uhtred

I was just pointing out that with a Warblade, the Weapon Focus tree isn't as wasted as it is on a fighter because it adds new layers of versatility to an already incredibly versatile warrior.

Not really. +X to attack or damage is hardly what I'd call "versatility", and having to pay more or spend time in addition to taking several feats (which warblade do not gain too many of) for more of the same is hardly that awesome.

[Uhtred]

Ah. I just looked it up in PH1, and you're right. IDK, I still think that getting to Supremacy is worth it, and that having Supremacy apply to every weapon I wield is going to be handy. But we are in a VERY high-gold campaign that centers around a magical craftsman who enchants and creates at a discount since we work for him, and we make an average of 45,000 gold on a single job, so I don't actually mind shelling out for every last ounce of AB and Damage I can deal out. In our group, my having a +31 AB at 11th level has saved our asses A LOT. But I agree that if our campaign had less gold in it, and our DM wasn't allowing us access to every enchant ever at a discount, I would re-think my "Aptitude Everything Initiative."
Plus I mentioned I'm a multiclass Fighter/Warblade, so I got every feat a fighter gets through eighth level and therefore have most everything worth having and could afford the feats. I guess if you don't have any levels of fighter then it's worth it not to burn the feats. As it is, I'll never be higher than a 10th level Warblade, although I can use maneuvers like a 14th level Warblade thanks to my Fighter levels half-stacking.
And Transmuting sounds MEAN! It's only a +2? What's the catch, it only functions three times a day?

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Uhtred

And Transmuting sounds MEAN! It's only a +2? What's the catch, it only functions three times a day?

The "catch" is that it only starts working after you've hit a target with DR once.

And your homebrew-centaur fighter/warblade hugely over WBL mixing 3.0 and 3.5 feats is perhaps less than representative of warblades in general.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Greenish

Spiked Gauntlet means being armed practically all the time, and offers a nice platform for weapon enhancements such as Warning (once you got the money for such utility).

But Gauntlets are cheaper and you'll often have them free with your armor, anyways. The only advantages I see to having a Spiked Gauntlet is if you want to threaten or if you want a piercing weapon available. You can enchant gauntlets as magic weapons just fine.

Originally Posted by Uhtred

As it is, I'll never be higher than a 10th level Warblade, although I can use maneuvers like a 14th level Warblade thanks to my Fighter levels half-stacking.

I'd think it'd be higher in your case, as shouldn't MHD also advance your IL?

[Uhtred]

I just talked to my DM and he said absolutely it does, and it takes me from an IL 14 to an IL 15 and therefore access to 8th level maneuvers. If I continue to dual-wield, then Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip sounds very, very attractive, especially with a crazy AB like I have. I have three attacks in a full attack, six while dual-wielding, thanks to Bracers of Quick Striking, hit almost all the time, and the rend damage from six consecutive attacks is high enough that I'll really mess up boss monsters when we face them. Of course, I won't get it until 20th level, in which case my BAB progression will be 20/20/10/5/20, so will probably be looking at six landed hits anyway.

[Reynard]

I'm actually a fan of the Discipline Weapon magic enhancement in ToB. As Warblades tend to be quite focused around a couple of schools, they can often get the full bonuses every round.

[Jade Dragon]

More sword rack stuff, noncore weapons will have book listed(one of the books is the pathfinder advanced player's guide, this does not mean weapons from it are unbalanced). Sources: pathfinder advanced player's guide(PAPG), complete warrior(CW), races of stone(ROS), races of the wild(ROTW).

Simple:

Spoiler

Gauntlet: no, spiked gauntlet is better, as you're treated as armed when using one.

Brass knuckles(PAPG): nooooo, same deal as the gauntlet.

Battle aspergillum(PAPG): useful against evil outsiders and undead, otherwise, give it a miss.

Cestus(PAPG): exactly the same as the spiked gauntlet, but has a better threat range, is a monk weapon, and if you're unarmed strike damage is higher than the weapon's damage, you deal your unarmed strike damage. Better[/ if you either have a reach weapon or do THFing and have wolf fang strike. However, you take a -2 to attack with a weapon held in that hand.

Wooden stake(PAPG): um... yeah, a wooden stake, nearly useless against everything but vampires(although if you beat your foes with just a wooden stake, you're gonna get a lot of respect from NPCs).

Bayonet(PAPG): NO, you're not gonna be using a crossbow!

Boar spear(PAPG): same as the regular spear, but can't be thrown. Instead, if you brace it against a charge and hit, then you get a +2 to AC against the charge.

Martial:

Spoiler

Sword cane(PAPG): you're supposed to keep your weapon visible, not pretend to be an old man!

Bardiche, Bec de Corbin, Glaive-guisarme(PAPG): these are all decent, the Bardiche is good if you face monsters who use sunder,the Bec de Corbin is good if you use sunder, and the Glaive-guisarme is good against mounted opponents.

Bill(PAPG): less damage than most polearms, but it gives a +1 AC when fighting defensively or using total defense, is useful against mounted opponents, and has the disarm ability.

Lucerne hammer(PAPG): now this? This is where it's at! More damage than the average polearm, brace, and a bonus to sunder medium and heavy armor!

Light hammer: never, get a throwing axe or shortspear instead.

shortspear: not much damage, but versatile.

Throwing axe: not good unless you want to dual-wield and be versatile, if you do that, the ultimate combination is this and a flail.

Exotic:

Spoiler

Swordbreaker dagger(PAPG):NO, if you want the disarm and sunder bonuses, pick up a two handed weapon, and that's not just against blades.


Falcata(PAPG): better than the bastard sword, but it's usually not worth a feat.

Khopesh(PAPG): eh, typically not worth it, if you want trip, wield a flail.

Temple sword(PAPG): same as the Khopesh, except it's a monk weapon and costs more.

Gnome hooked hammer: only slightly better than the warhammer and sickle combo.

Chain spear(PAPG): why are you spending a feat on this when you would be more effective with a shortspear and flail?

Mancatcher(CW and PAPG): um... no.

Lasso(PAPG): same as the net, but it takes less time to get it ready for another use, plus it's way cheaper. Only problem is it's easier to escape from. Like the net, it's much better for battlefield controllers, and you shouldn't touch it otherwise.

Foot spike(ROTW): NOOOOO, unless you're playing a raptoran and convince you're DM to treat them as martial weapons.

Elven lightblade and Elven thinblade(CW and ROTW): not bad, but not worth a feat either.

Elven courtblade(ROTW): um... why didn't they just put this into the falchion? It's affected by weapon finesse, however, so for finesse fighters, this is much better.

Lynxpaw(ROTW): seriously, how many subpar weapons can WoTC make? Just look at the stats once, and tell me, with a straight face, that this should cost a feat. I dare you.

Dwarven warpike(ROS): this is hands down the best polearm there is, with 2d8 damage, x3 crit, and the trip ability. If you're a dwarf, there's just no reason not to get this.

Gnome tortoise blade and dwarven buckler-axe(CW and ROS): not much worse than improved buckler defense, but since only dancing mongoose, raging mongoose, time stands still, wolf fang strike, and girallon windmill flesh rip are for TWFers, you probably don't want it. However, if your disciplines are diamond mind and tiger claw(cool fluff about balance, by the way), it's much better.

Gnome swordcatcher(ROS): better than the swordbreaker, but like I said for that, just get a two handed weapon.

Goliath greathammer(ROS): the better critical equates to one extra damage roll, unless you're playing a goliath and manage to convince your DM to give you weapon familiarity, get a greataxe.

Throwing hammer(ROS): not worth the feat.

Dwarven double spear(ROS): no, not worth a feat.

Scourge(CW): NO, flail is better and doesn't cost a feat.

Dire pick(CW): same problems as the bastard sword.

Double hammer(CW): listen to me, one point of damage isn't worth a feat.

Greatspear(CW): if you want this, just get a greatsword with the throwing enchantment. However, there are some spear only feats, and this is the only spear that's not a simple weapon.

Lajatang(CW): monk weapon, 'nuff said.

Heavy poleaxe(CW): get a dwarven warpike.
.
Warmace(CW): not worth both a feat and an AC penalty.

I'll add more later.

EDIT: done!