Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]

[MeeposFire]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

That... doesn't make sense.

Yeah, there are dancing mongoose, raging mongoose, time stands still, wolf fang strike, and girallon windmill flesh rip. However, if your disciplines are tiger claw and diamond mind(really cool fluff), than it's great. But I'll change it anyway.

Most of what you list are boosts not strikes and some are not full round actions or attacks.

Dancing mongoose, raging mongoose, and girralon windmill all are boosts not strikes and none of those are required to be used with a full attack (though with the windmill you would want to),

Wolf fang strike is a standard action that makes two attacks. It neither has two weapon penalties (though it has its own special penalties) nor does a full attack.

Time stands still is correct though. It is a full round action to make two full attack actions.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by MeeposFire

Most of what you list are boosts not strikes and some are not full round actions or attacks.

Dancing mongoose, raging mongoose, and girralon windmill all are boosts not strikes and none of those are required to be used with a full attack (though with the windmill you would want to),

Wolf fang strike is a standard action that makes two attacks. It neither has two weapon penalties (though it has its own special penalties) nor does a full attack.

Time stands still is correct though. It is a full round action to make two full attack actions.

I didn't say they were full attacks or strikes, I just meant these are the one you use your off-hand weapon for.

Also, a weapon from Pathfinder:

Halfling sling staff: this is great, it costs one feat, and you get more damage, more range, and the ability to treat it as a club in melee, however, it requires a move action to reload.

[MeeposFire]

I think I got confused by quickly using my mouse slider as an earlier post you said full attacks and then in a later post you listed those attack so I confused them together as being these are all full attack strikes. Woops.

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Halfling sling staff: this is great, it costs one feat, and you get more damage, more range, and the ability to treat it as a club in melee.

Move action to load?

Garbage. If you're burning a feat for a ranged weapon, make it a bow (great bow, most likely).

[Boci]

Originally Posted by Greenish

Move action to load?

Garbage. If you're burning a feat for a ranged weapon, make it a bow (great bow, most likely).

Isn't there a yuanti bow that allows melee attacks as well?

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Greenish

Move action to load?

Garbage. If you're burning a feat for a ranged weapon, make it a bow (great bow, most likely).

Not so much if you're a PF Halfling, since they can get weapon familiarity and can knock it down to a free action reload as a racial trait, but that's neither here or there since we're talking 3.5, so agreed, should be purple for 3.5 games.

I say purple as slings (and staff slings) don't cost extra money to apply your strength bonus to, unlike almost every nonmagic bow out there, so if all you're going to use it for is as a backup ranged weapon, slings are a happy medium between bows and thrown weapons.

[Greenish]

Originally Posted by Boci

Isn't there a yuanti bow that allows melee attacks as well?

Yuan-ti Serpent Bow, Secrets of Xen'drik page 136. Requires an EWP though, so if you can get martial weapons from a dip, a swordbow or an elvencraft bow are probably better options.

[Jade Dragon]

Alright, I looked on realmshelp and found agile shield fighter. My reaction: then , I thought TWFing applied to shield bashing, and it would make sense if it did.

Also, found overwhelming assault, it is terrible.

[Draz74]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Alright, I looked on realmshelp and found agile shield fighter. My reaction: then , I thought TWFing applied to shield bashing, and it would make sense if it did.

You can use TWF with a shield bash, yes. There are two reasons Agile Shield Fighter is better for a shield-user:

• no Dex 15 prerequisite (which is nice for heavy-armored types)
• a heavy shield, which doesn't count as a light weapon, doesn't give additional attack penalties.

The downside is, no ITWF or GTWF available. Then again, my characters are always too feat-starved to spend feats to get extra attacks that will probably miss, anyway.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Draz74

You can use TWF with a shield bash, yes. There are two reasons Agile Shield Fighter is better for a shield-user:

• no Dex 15 prerequisite (which is nice for heavy-armored types)
• a heavy shield, which doesn't count as a light weapon, doesn't give additional attack penalties.

The downside is, no ITWF or GTWF available. Then again, my characters are always too feat-starved to spend feats to get extra attacks that will probably miss, anyway.

I don't really care about the dex, but you have a good point about heavy shields.

Also, Elfin, I think you're underrating attack and AC bonuses, because they never age. See, each face on a D20 is worth five percent, so, for example, a +4 bonus is always an extra twenty percent chance to hit, a +1 is always an extra five percent chance to hit, and so on.

I also think you're totally underrating vital recovery compared to improved toughness, because improved toughness gives you an extra hit point per hit die, while vital recovery heals hit points equal to hit dice plus three every time you recover maneuvers.

A feat, if you'd rather get weapon finesse instead of combat expertise, agile riposte is at least as good than karmic strike, as you don't take an AC penalty, but you can only use it if an enemy misses you.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Also, Elfin, I think you're underrating attack and AC bonuses, because they never age. See, each face on a D20 is worth five percent, so, for example, a +4 bonus is always an extra twenty percent chance to hit, a +1 is always an extra five percent chance to hit, and so on.

Not quite true, as at some point there's diminishing returns for every plus at a given level. After you hit a certain point at your current level of play, having a higher AC or higher attack bonus doesn't do anything for you, except perhaps to be used with Power Attack. Even then, that sometimes signals DMs to raise attack and AC bonuses, which is BAD for the rest of the party, who're more likely to get killed that way.

I also think you're totally underrating vital recovery compared to improved toughness, because improved toughness gives you an extra hit point per hit die, while vital recovery heals hit points equal to hit dice plus three every time you recover maneuvers.

It only works once per encounter, though. You have to also be hurt at that time for it to be worthwhile, stipulations Improved Toughness doesn't have, as you just have those extra hit points, no questions asked.

A feat, if you'd rather get weapon finesse instead of combat expertise, agile riposte is at least as good than karmic strike, as you don't take an AC penalty, but you can only use it if an enemy misses you.

While true, it's also out of Dragon, which isn't exactly a common source or necessarily open to every table. Making a Handbook is usually towards benefiting the most people and Dragon gets the least face time out of any source, especially considering a lot of these feats and other things have a swinging pendulum for a sense of balance, so that doesn't help get them onto more game tables, either. Unfortunate, I know, as there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, it's just not necessarily the best source of comparison with other published material.

[Suichimo]

Any ranking for maneuvers/stances outside of the Warblade's group? I wanted something beyond the normal stuff for Warblades so I picked up Flame's Blessing and Windstride so far.

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

It only works once per encounter, though. You have to also be hurt at that time for it to be worthwhile, stipulations Improved Toughness doesn't have, as you just have those extra hit points, no questions asked.

How does it work outside of combat though? If you're considered to be refreshing your maneuvers while not in combat, if you use them outside of combat that is, you could be doing all of your own healing and lessening that strain on your group.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Suichimo

How does it work outside of combat though? If you're considered to be refreshing your maneuvers while not in combat, if you use them outside of combat that is, you could be doing all of your own healing and lessening that strain on your group.

I suppose this is quite true, as the 1/encounter bit could certainly restore you slowly to full, though you could do it only once per minute, as I'd imagine it would have the same time stipulations that using maneuvers has. If you got the time, then sure, it could work.

Still, it's not great in-combat healing, it's an extra that's like a second wind, so YMMV.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

It only works once per encounter, though. You have to also be hurt at that time for it to be worthwhile, stipulations Improved Toughness doesn't have, as you just have those extra hit points, no questions asked.

A free cure spell once per encounter that scales with level is still better because, while improved toughness gives you extra hit points, that's also more hit points to heal, at the very least, they're equal.

While true, it's also out of Dragon, which isn't exactly a common source or necessarily open to every table. Making a Handbook is usually towards benefiting the most people and Dragon gets the least face time out of any source, especially considering a lot of these feats and other things have a swinging pendulum for a sense of balance, so that doesn't help get them onto more game tables, either. Unfortunate, I know, as there's a lot of good stuff in there as well, it's just not necessarily the best source of comparison with other published material.

I don't have a single copy of dragon magazine, I got that off realmshelp. There should really be a link to that in the feats section.

Also, I found a great loophole for the weapon aptitude class feature, it works for any feat that affects a single weapon, right? Well, EWP affects a single weapon! So basically, you can wake up and decide which weapon you want to be proficient with that day!

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

I don't have a single copy of dragon magazine, I got that off realmshelp. There should really be a link to that in the feats section.

Realms Help is more of an unspoken resource that's slightly frowned on by the mods. I'd rather not force the issue either way, y'know?

Also, I found a great loophole for the weapon aptitude class feature, it works for any feat that affects a single weapon, right? Well, EWP affects a single weapon! So basically, you can wake up and decide which weapon you want to be proficient with that day!

Y'don't say?

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

Realms Help is more of an unspoken resource that's slightly frowned on by the mods. I'd rather not force the issue either way, y'know?

Okay, fine.

Y'don't say?

You already figured that out?

[true_shinken]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

You already figured that out?

That's the oldest Warblade trick ever. It was discovered before ToB was published.

[Suichimo]

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

I suppose this is quite true, as the 1/encounter bit could certainly restore you slowly to full, though you could do it only once per minute, as I'd imagine it would have the same time stipulations that using maneuvers has. If you got the time, then sure, it could work.

Still, it's not great in-combat healing, it's an extra that's like a second wind, so YMMV.

So are the ever popular Wand of CLW and Lesser Vigor. Really its stuff like an actual Heal or a Healing Belt that you're going to be using in battle anyway, for healing that is. Sublime characters are basically at full health in between combat with this.

[Amphetryon]

Originally Posted by Suichimo

So are the ever popular Wand of CLW and Lesser Vigor. Really its stuff like an actual Heal or a Healing Belt that you're going to be using in battle anyway, for healing that is. Sublime characters are basically at full health in between combat with this.

A Wand of CLW is unlikely to be a necessary, integral part of your early-game build, though. The stances you choose, on the other hand, are.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by true_shinken

That's the oldest Warblade trick ever. It was discovered before ToB was published.

So WotC is fine with it? WOOHOO!

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Amphetryon

A Wand of CLW is unlikely to be a necessary, integral part of your early-game build, though. The stances you choose, on the other hand, are.

It's a feat, not a stance, and it scales with level.

[Lateral]

Meh, Weapon Aptitude was meant to only work with things like Weapon Specialization or Weapon Mastery, but it works by RAW. There's no real reason why a DM shouldn't allow it, since it really isn't all that powerful a combo. Sure, you can carry around a bunch of extra exotic weapons, but at low levels you might not be able to afford all of them, and there's no way you'll be able to give decent enchantments to that many weapons at higher levels.

@V: There are so few Exotic weapons worth the feat that it's not exactly unbalancing in any way.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Lateral

Meh, Weapon Aptitude was meant to only work with things like Weapon Specialization or Weapon Mastery, but it works by RAW. There's no real reason why a DM shouldn't allow it, since it really isn't all that powerful a combo. Sure, you can carry around a bunch of extra exotic weapons, but at low levels you might not be able to afford all of them, and there's no way you'll be able to give decent enchantments to that many weapons at higher levels.

Yes, but it means that if you get an exotic weapon and wanna switch to a different exotic weapon, you didn't waste any feats.

[Amphetryon]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

It's a feat, not a stance, and it scales with level.

I'd say a feat is worth more to a character than 750GP, personally.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Amphetryon

I'd say a feat is worth more to a character than 750GP, personally.

What part don't you understand about "scales with level"? And besides, the wand will run out of charges.

[Reynard]

Once per encounter healing of a max of 23hp is goddamn terrible.

Warblades get a d12 hit die. Even with no con and average hp per level, you're still only going to be healing a 6th of your total hp. This is not worth a feat.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Reynard

Once per encounter healing of a max of 23hp is goddamn terrible.

Warblades get a d12 hit die. Even with no con and average hp per level, you're still only going to be healing a 6th of your total hp. This is not worth a feat.

And improved toughness is?

[Suichimo]

Originally Posted by Reynard

Once per encounter healing of a max of 23hp is goddamn terrible.

Warblades get a d12 hit die. Even with no con and average hp per level, you're still only going to be healing a 6th of your total hp. This is not worth a feat.

With the exception of giant heals like, well, Heal, in-combat healing is usually looked down upon from what I've read on forums and the like. Using this out of combat seems pretty good.

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

And improved toughness is?

Neither are. I'd rate them about the same in the uselessness scale.

Originally Posted by Suichimo

With the exception of giant heals like, well, Heal, in-combat healing is usually looked down upon from what I've read on forums and the like. Using this out of combat seems pretty good.

But a wand of any healing spell. It's worth it more than this is.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Reynard

But Buy a wand of any healing spell. It's worth it more than this is.

fixed that for ya.

And again, WANDS RUN OUT OF CHARGES. Besides, healing a sixth of your hit points every encounter isn't bad.