Improved Monster Classes IV (Closed)

[Gorgondantess]

Well, this is my 2nd thread as the... Leader? of this project. I think we're going much more for quality over quantity than in the previous threads, so let's make sure every last monster is perfect.

Introduction
As you may know, 3.5 allows you to play monsters as PCs, but with a cost: LA and RHD.

However, most monsters out there weren't designed for player use, and end up with fat LAs to keep the players away from powerfull abilities like greater teleport at will.

Plus, monsters with higher HD than CR also aren't very usefull for players.

And then, the players have to deal with many of their monster abilities don't improving with leveling up.

In this thread, we'll pick up popular monsters and re-design them to be useable by players, so that they can play any monster with CR X by level X. I'll acomplish this by:
-Adjusting RHD to always match the player's level to so as not to punish/reward them against level dependent abilities.
-Reducing huge ability bonuses and natural armor.
-Making monster special abilities HD dependent so they keep increasing.
-Cut down most abusable abilities to keep the power level in check. No stuff like at will teleport at level 5.


Monster classes building guidelines.
I've edited a few of these to be more lenient- in general, if you're making the monster, you deserve some leeway. My additions are in bold.

Spoiler

0-Put your monster class into a post of his own, statistics spoilered, spoilered comments below and a non-spoilered picture above everything, monster name in bold. Put the ability descriptions by order they're gained and their names italized, the monster HD, skills and class features should be bolded. Use other monsters as guidelines.

1-Number of levels of the class=CR of the monster (or CR increase on case of template-classes). This is as simple as it gets. If the monster is epic CR then you can cut it down to 20 levels, though it's still okay to go into epic if you'd prefer- in that case, though, it's generally a good idea to give all of its important abilities by pre-epic. If the monster is less than CR 20 and you feel inspired then you can do some extra levels for some kind of "paragon" or "lord" monster with completely custom abilities- include these in a different statblock.

2-If it's not an undead or construct, then ignore the basic monster saves, skills, proficiencies and BAB progression. Use your own judgement to determine these- a huge, hulking outsider shouldn't have good reflex saves, etc. The more and/or better abilities, the worse saves/skills/BAB/proficiencies the monster should have.
As for BAB: if a monster is very strong but not skilled, it should have a strength bonus every level and 3/4 BAB. If it is skilled but not strong, it should have more scant strength bonuses and full BAB. However, if it feels lacking, it's always okay to give both full strength bonuses & full BAB. After all, melee needs nice things too.

2a-If it's an undead or construct, no good fort or reflex saves, 2+int skill points per level and no class skills. Generally- exceptions are possible, but you have to have a really good reason. This is for balancing the powerful traits of those creature types. Constructs get average BAB and bad will saves and undead get bad BAB and good will saves. Ditto.

3-Monster classes remove any base race advantages at first level. Template classes do not. Take in acount this so 1st level of the monster class can be better than 1st level of most classes because you're sacrificing your race, roughly worth two-three feats.

4-Base natural armor on Con modifier. The default is Nat armor=Con modifier. Stronger monsters can have something like X+Con modifier (keep X low though), or half Con modifier. Undeads and constructs should base it on Str. For "smart" or "spellcaster" monsters you may make the Nat armor based on a mental score instead, but if it is fullcasting, don't use its spellcasting ability for natural armor.

5-Ability score increases shouldn't be more than +1 to any score in any level. You may take exceptions to this at 1st level in certain cases. No ability score penalties unless you have a really good reason.

5a-Speaking of which, try to base each monster class in two stats, three at max. Don't go around giving bonus to every one of the six stats, players really don't need it and it clogs up the class. If you feel like a monster should be smart, it's preferable to simply give it more skill points than Int boosts. Ability score bonuses should directly relate to the class- if the class doesn't use intelligence (other than for skill points), don't give it an intelligence bonus. If it doesn't use charisma, don't give it a charisma bonus. Etc.
Generally, constitution is always okay to give, as is strength for a melee class or dexterity if it's applicable.

5b-Extra scores should only be used if the monster is gaining minor abilities or has bad base statistics (low Bab, saves, no proefeciencies, no hands).

6-Break down the monster abilities into separate groups, figure out the levels on which it would be fair for them to be available to a player, then distribute them through the monster levels so you gain something nice at every one. No dead levels, no levels where you only get ability scores. Period.

6a-Flying should only come at 4th level, unless you're a handless monster without ranged attacks, or anything crippling along those lines. Growth can come online as early at level 3, but it's preferable at 4th level or higher.
See Hyruda's Wyvern's Leathery Wings ability if you feel you need some sort of flight before 4th level.

6b-Melees deserve nice things. Casters deserve bad things. DR should be equal to half your HD (except for really tough monsters like the iron golem, and even then it should be 1/2 HD initially, equal to HD later). SR should be 11+HD, or 10+HD+Ability score for monsters that are really supposed to be anti-casters like the Rakasha.
If you feel the need for fullcasting on a monster, pare down the abilities. A lot. Generally, casting equal to the class levels minus one is the rule, but otherwise is certainly possible.

7-Make sure that most of the monster abilities scale with HD. DCs should always be 10+1/2 HD+stat (usually charisma or constitution) and the monster should gain more uses when it gains more HD. Yes, HD, not monster levels.

7a-Try to put in synergies with other classes, like the ogre mage's ability to gain extra caster level and higher level spells when it multiclasses. And again make several (but not all) of the abilities scale with HD and not necessarily monster class level (except for the strongest abilities).

Do not, however, use synergies with classes unavailable on the srd.

7b- Use At-Will SLAs very, very cautiously. Generally, the only times they should be used are if it is vital to the class, and not spammable.

7c-SLAs should sometimes auto-upgrade to stronger versions when the player reaches a certain HD. The prime example of this is Dispel Magic upgrading to Greater dispel magic at 11 HD, Summon monster X becoming X+1 every other level, or teleport becoming greater teleport. This should only be used for SLAs that become considerably weaker after a certain level. Dispel magic for example is capped at +10 CL so it stops growing after you reach 10 HD.

8-Compare with base classes. If it is as powerful as a rogue or barbarian or ranger, kick it up a notch: if it's as powerful as a druid, you've gone a little too far.
Generally, the dragons are a good balance point, while the tarrasque, anthropomorphic animal or ghaele are as powerful as you should get.

8a-Compare with other monsters here of the same type/role. Naztharune Rakshasa is the base "roguish" monster for example.

9-If a certain monster has several versions (like the different age categories of each dragon), then it's ok to combine them all on the same class, but abilities of each "stage" of the monster should be gained at the apropriate level/CR. For example, the dragon classes grow at the levels corresponding at the CRs the actual monsters. On the other hand, the dragons get their best SLAs earlier because they wouldn't be much usefull if only gained at epic levels.

10-Faster than linear progression/low quadratic. Each level should give more than the last one, even if just a little.

10a-Don't be afraid to make custom abilities if the original monster doesn't have enough to fill all levels (check out the giants, harpy, or iron golem as prime examples of this). Keep them creative, in theme for the monster and fun, not necessarily powerfull. One simple idea is to allow the monster to partially ignore immunity to his main combat tactic. Also, granting choices such as the iron golem's upgrades or the harpy's song is always nice.

10b-On the same vein, monsters with really powerfull abilities should receive custom penalties/reductions, that are reduced as the character grows. The ghost, being undead and ethereal must carry his body around. The vampire must drink blood to fuel his powers. The Medusa's gaze starts weak and then improves until it reaches full power.

Thread Guidelines (will be periodically updated):

Spoiler

0: Please, please, please use proper spelling & punctuation. It makes things easier on all of us. Thank you.



Note: if I'm being a grammar nazi, please tell me, and I'll stop.

1: Post one class at a time: don't post a new monster while your first one is still being critiqued. This is a guideline, not a rule. If you have a monster you want to post and I'm being slow

2: Always question me. I'm fallible, and I'm a busy person. If I tell you to do something and you disagree with it, say so and why, and I'll listen to it without bias.

Beginners: for your 1st class, it's probably best to try something 3-8 levels long, with lots of balanced, flavorful abilities. Please don't cobble together a convoluted epic level class and expect me to critique it and revise it with much expediency.

Monster Class Building Rules & Helpful Tables & Stuff to quote:

Spoiler

Monsters that don't normally have spellcasting but are generally mystical and have SLAs- such as a succubus, or ogre mage, or other similar creature- should have the following multiclassing option:

A (Monster) who multiclasses into a (Arcane or Divine or Specific) spellcasting class can count his (Monster) levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and geting new spell slots. So for example, a (Monster) (#) who took (#2) level(s) of (Spellcasting Class) could choose to have CL (#+#2), get (X spells per day/spells known/see Marraenoloth for an example). He wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a (Spellcasting Class #) however. He would get the (1st level ability(s), if any), but (Monster) levels wouldn't count for it.

Were-X building guidelines.


Growth modifiers

Spoiler

Base Size	New Size	AC & Attack Bonuses*	Space*	Reach (Tall/Long)*	Ave. Size Incr.	Ave. Weight Incr.	Grapple Mod.	Hide Mod.
Fine	Diminutive	-4 (size)	+½’	+0’/+0’	+6”	+1/2 lb.	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Diminutive	Tiny	-2 (size)	+1½’	+0’/+0’	+9”	+5 lbs.	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Tiny	Small	-1 (size)	+2½’	+5’/+5’	+18”	+36 lbs.	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Small	Medium	-1 (size)	+0’	+0’/+0’	+3’	+240 lbs.	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Medium	Large	-1 (size)	+5’	+5’/+0’	+6’	+2000 lbs.	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Large	Huge	-1 (size)	+5’	+5’/+5’	+12’	+8 tons	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Huge	Gargantuan	-2 (size)	+5’	+5’/+5’	+24’	+80 tons	+4 (size)	-4 (size)
Gargantuan	Colossal	-4 (size)	+10’	+10’/+5’	+48’	+200 tons	+4 (size)	-4 (size)

Kudos to the formerly uncredited Zeta Kai for the table.
No you don't gain extra stats just for growing. It's not even listed on the table.
Your natural weapons damage increases one die size for each size increase though.

FAQ:

Spoiler

No ability penalties?
Nope. Generally.


Do I need to take all the levels or can I just take what I want and then go to other class?
Just like a normal class, you can leave a monster class at any level and then even come back later if you wish. You aren't allowed to mix different monster classes together, however, except for PrCs, though sometimes it's interesting to combine them (with DM consent, of course). For example, in a gestalt game, I've seen a succubus/erinyes.

What's this lose all racial bonus thingy?
Basicaly, these classes count as both initial race and class, so you can't be an human/ogre mage. You're just an ogre mage.


What's the Caster Level for the SLAs?
Unless otherwise specified, the Caster level for any SLAs is equal to your total HD.

Help! I'm taking a 1 or 2 level monster class and can't tell if it's BAB 1/2 or 3/4! (For the purposes of fractional BAB).
Unless otherwise noted, an undead has 1/2 BAB, while all other classes/templates have 3/4 BAB.

Link to 1st thread
Link to 2nd thread
Link to 3rd thread

[Gorgondantess]

Monster List
Kudos to Niezck for great formatting greatness.

Spoiler

A

Abishai - Gorgondantess
Aboleth - by Oslecamo
Achaierai - by Gorgondantess
Air elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Allip - by Temotei
Anaxim - by Draken
Androsphynx - by Oslecamo
Angel of Decay - by Draken
Annis Hag - by Hyudra
Anthropomorphic Animal - by Oslecamo
Aranea - by Oslecamo
Arcadian Avenger - by Zemro Shivic
Arcanaloth - by Frog Dragon
Arrow Demon - by Cogidubnus
Astral Construct - by Sciencepanda
Astral Stalker - by Fyrebyrd/Oslecamo
Awakened Monstrous Crab - by Flabort
Awakened Skeleton - by Oslecamo

B

Balor - by Oslecamo
Beguiler - by AustontheGreat1
Beholder - by AustontheGreat1
Blink Dog - by AustontheGreat1
Brain in a Jar - by Draken
Bralani - by BelGareth
Bugbear - by Crafty Cultist

C

Centaur - by Oslecamo
Cheshire Cat - by Geckoking
Cloud Giantvby Hyudra
Coatlvby Kobold-Bard
Cornugon - by Gorgondantess

D

Daeva - by Gorgondantess
Death Drinker - by Oslecamo
Death Knight - by monkman
Djinni - by Oslecamo
Displacer Beast - by Hyudra
Doppelganger - by Oslecamo
Dracotaur - by monkman
Dragonne - by Oslecamo
Dream Larva - by Magicyop
Drider - by I_Am_An_Undead/Lix Lorn
Dryad - by Bodez/Oslecamo
Duergar - by Jallorn

E

Earth Elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Entomber - by Gorgondantess
Entropic Reaper - by Crafty_Cultist
Erinyes - by Oslecamo
Ettin - by Temotei

F

Firbolg - by Oslecamo
Fire Elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Flind Gnoll - by Gorgondantess
Force Golem - by Gorgondantess
Forest Troll - by Volt
Fire Giant - by Hyudra
Frost Giant - by Hyudra

G

Gelatinous Cube - by Kobold-Bard
Ghaele Eladrin - by Oslecamo
Ghost - by Oslecamo
Ghoul - by CraftY_Cultist/Oslecamo
Githzerai/Githyanki - by Chumplump
Glass Golem - by Cogidubnus
Gloom - by Oslecamo
Gnoll - by Oslecamo
Goristro - by Monkman
Gray Jester - by Oslecamo
Green Hag - by ChumpLump
Grimlock - by Oslecamo
Griffon - by AustontheGreat1
Gynosphynx - by Volt

H

Harpy - by Hyudra
Hell Hound - by Crafty Cultist
Hill Giant - by Hyudra
Hound Archon - by Oslecamo
Hook Horror - by Frog Dragon
Hydra - by Oslecamo

I

Imp - by Hyudra
Iron Golem - by Gorgodantess

J

Janni - by Kobold-Bard

K

Kaorti - by Crafty Cultist
Kuo-Toa - by Hyudra
Kython - by Crafty_Cultist
Kython, Impaler and Slaymaster - by Crafty Cultist
Kython, Slaughterking - by Crafty Cultist
Kyton - by ChumpLump

L

Lantern Archon - by Volt
Leonal - by BelGareth
Lillend - by Oslecamo

M

Marilith - by Oslecamo
Marrutact - by Gorgodantess
Marraenoloth - by Gorgondantess
Medusa and Choker - by Oslecamo
Mimic - by Sciencepanda
Mind Flayer - by Oslecamo
Minotaur - by Oslecamo
Mephit - by Hyudra
Mezzoloth - by Frog Dragon
Movanic Deva - by Oslecamo
Mummy - by Oslecamo
MurderJack - by FlickerDart/Oslecamo

N

Nashrou - by Makiru
Nerra - by Draken
Nimblewright - by Temotei
Nixie - by Oslecamo
Nycaloth - by Frog Dragon
Nymph - by Bodez

O

Ogre Mage - by Oslecamo
Ogre - by Hyudra
Owlbear - by Kobold-Bard

P

Pegasus - by FirebirdFlying
Phasm - by Oslecamo
Phoelarch - by AustontheGreat1
Phoenix - by Oslecamo/AustontheGreat1
Pit fiend - by Oslecamo
Pixie - by Aranii
Planetouched - by Gorgodantess
Pseudo-Dragon - by Kobold-Bard
Psionic Mindflayer - by Gorgondantess

Q

R

Rakshasa - by Oslecamo
Rakshasa, Naztharune - by Gorgondantess
Ravid - by Kobold-Bard
Red slaad - by Oslecamo
Redcap - by Draken
Reptilians - by Gorgondantess
Reth Dekala - by Gorgondantess
Roving Mauler - by Makiru
Rukanyr - by Makiru
Rust Monster - by Kobold-Bard

S

Sahuagin - by Crafty Cultist
Salamander - by Oslecamo
ScorpionFolk - by Frog Dragon
Sea Hag - by ChumpLump
Shadowperson - by AustontheGreat1
Shaedling - by Monkman/Gorgondantess
Silthilar - by AustonTheGreat1
Slaad - by Trenelus
Son/Daughter of Silence - by Oslecamo
Soulspark - by Niezck
Succubus - by Oslecamo
Spell Weaver - by Winter King
Stone giant - by Hyudra
Sverfineblin - by ChumpLump

T

Tarrasque - by Oslecamo
Tengu - by Oslecamo
Thri-Kreen - by Oslecamo
Titan - by Kobold Bard
Treant - by Niezck
Troll - by Oslecamo
Tsochar - by Oslecamo

U

Ulitharid - by Oslecamo
Unicorn - by FirebirdFlying

V

Valkyrie - By Niezck
Vargouille - by Oslecamo
Vasuthant - by Oslecamo
Vrock - by Gorgondantess

W

War Troll(prc) - by monkman
Water Elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Wight - by Crafty Cultist
Wild Hunt - by Oslecamo
Will-O-Wisp - by Kobold-Bard
Winter Wolf - by Frog Dragon
Wyvern - by Hyudra

X

Xill - by ScionoftheVoid

Y

Yuan-ti - by Oslecamo

Z

Zelekhut(inevitable) - by Oslecamo
Zern - by AustontheGreat1

Therianthropes:

Spoiler

Wereconstrictor - by ChumpLump
Werecheetah - by ChumpLump
Wereleopard - by ChumpLump
Werelion - by ChumpLump
Wererat - by ChumpLump
Werespider Hunter - by ChumpLump
Werespider Weaver - by ChumpLump
Weretiger - by ChumpLump
Wereviper - by ChumpLump

In Need of Overhaul:Werebear
Werehydra
Werelizard
Wererhino
Werewolf

True Dragons:

Spoiler

Blue Dragon - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon - by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon - by unknown
Golden Dragon - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon - by un_known
Red Dragon - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon - by Oslecamo
Styx Dragon - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
White Dragon - by un_known
Wing Dragon - by Oslecamo

Templates:

Spoiler

Evolved Undead - by Gorgondantess
Feral Creature - by Niezck
Gravetouched Ghoul - by Hyudra
Half-Celestial - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Dragon - by Oslecamo
Half-Fey - by Kobold Bard
Half-Fiend - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Golem - by Oslecamo
Half-Illithid - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Troll - by flabort
Horrid Monster - by Hyudra
Lich - by Crafty_Cultist
Monster of Legend - by Hyudra
Saint - by Magicyop
Spellwarped creature - by Frog Dragon/Oslecamo
Unholy Scion - by Monkman
Vampire - by Oslecamo
Winged Template - by Niezck

Monster Class Feats

Spoiler

Brains over Brawn:
Prerequisite: Natural armor based off of a certain ability score modifier.
You lose your natural armor: in return, you gain an insight bonus to AC equal to one mental stat's modifier of your choice. If any class ability would increase your natural armor in the future, it increases your insight bonus to AC instead.

Improved Monster Power:
Your HD (not class level) is considered one higher for the purposes of determining the abilities of one monster class of your choice.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. It can be stack up to 2 times per monster class, and can also be taken for multiple different monster classes.

[Gorgondantess]

The waiting list isn't perfect, but here it is. Note that requests will go on the waiting list much more efficiently if you PM me as opposed to posting here.
Waiting List:

Spoiler

Avoral
Battle Dragon
Barghest
Concordant Killer
Metalmaster
Mohrg (MM)
Nightwalker
Protean Scourge
Various Other Dragons
Various Monsters from FF

Requests from Gorgondantess (too busy to make 'em now, but if YOU make them, you get cookies!)
Joystealer
Splinterwaif
Verdant Prince

New Releases!:
Water Elemental Rounding off the last of the elementals with my personal favorite.
Shadowperson For all your stealth/intrigue needs!
Arcadian Avenger Making TWF decent since 2010.
Cheshire Cat"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad."
Valkyrie - Sonic clappin' good.

[Magicyop]

Miscellaneous Lists (defunct)

Unfinished Monsters

Spoiler

Monster	Endorsements	Suggestions	Original Post Date	Notes
Elder Treant			10/03/2010	Abandoned
Thunderbird			10/05/2010	Abandoned
Malebranche			10/16/2010	Abandoned Salvaged By Starsign
Dwarf Ancestor			10/18/2010	Abandoned
Black Dragon	Kyuubi Magicyop		10/19/2010
Lammasu		Gorgondantess Magicyop ChumpLump	10/19/2010
Purple Worm		Gorgondantess	10/21/2010	Endorsed
Bleakborn	Magicyop ChumpLump		10/23/2010
Brass Golem		Magicyop ChumpLump	10/24/2010
WereScorpion		Magicyop ChumpLump	10/27/2010
Gargoyle		Gorgondantess Magicyop ChumpLump	10/27/2010
Maug		Magicyop ChumpLump	10/29/2010
Wereraptor		Gorgondantess Magicyop ChumpLump	10/30/2010
Death Knight	Magicyop	Zemro Shivic Gorgondantess ChumpLump	10/31/2010	Revised Class
Osyluth (Bone Devil)			10/31/2010	Abandoned
Illurien		Gorgondantess	11/04/2010
Shade		Gorgondantess ChumpLump	11/04/2010
Half-Elemental	Magicyop Rumel	ChumpLump	11/07/2010
Warforged Charger	Magicyop TheGeckoKing ChumpLump	Gorgondantess	11/07/2010
Were-elephant		Magicyop ChumpLump	11/11/2010
Gerivar			11/12/2010	Abandoned
Warforged Octopus		Magicyop	11/13/2010
Ragewalker		ChumpLump	11/14/2010
Anarchic Creature		Gorgondantess Magicyop ChumpLump	11/14/2010
Living Spell	Lix Lorn mootoall TheGeckoKing DythTheKobold ChumpLump		11/14/2010	Originally By ChumpLump Endorsed
Valkyrie	Magicyop FishAreWet ChumpLump Lix Lorn DythTheKobold	Gorgondantess	11/15/2010	Endorsed
Solamith	mootoall Magicyop	ChumpLump	11/16/2010
Awakened Tyrannosaurus			11/24/2010
Shocker Lizard			11/27/2010
Were-Shocker Lizard			11/27/2010
Werespider (Weaver)			11/29/2010
Werespider (Hunter)			11/29/2010
Werebear			11/30/2010
Animated Object			11/30/2010
Ultroloth			11/30/2010
Thorn		Monkman	12/1/2010
Grell			12/2/2010

How To Use: The links are either a link to the endorsement, or to the suggestion. Just click it to find the post. If there is other information you'd like me to add to an entry, post or private message me.

What are you waiting for? Get out there and endorse/critique some monsters!

Dibs List

Spoiler

Hagumemnon(Protean): Magicyop
Nightwalker: Rumel
Half-Golem Revision: ChumpLump
Garngrath: Makiru
Gulthir Devil: Makiru

How To Use: Don't make a monster if someone has called it in this list. If you really want to make the monster and it seems someone has kept a tight grip on it for a while without doing anything, check with them first, and if they fail to say that they still intend to make the monster, it will be removed from the Dibs List.

Other Content

Spoiler

Therianthropy Rules
Multiple Natural Armor Bonuses

How To Use: These are links to miscellaneous information that you may need to know when using or making Monster Classes. If necessary, more info will be added next to the links.

[Magicyop]

Featured Monster: Bleakborn
Draining heat from the world to fill a bottomless pool of eternal chill.

This monster is unfinished, something it should not be! Whenever you have some time, take a look at whatever monster is currently featured, and give your thoughts on it. If you like it, help out this creature! Give it an endorsement! If you don't, say what you'd like changed. Let's work together and see the above monster on the finished list soon.

[Lix Lorn]

Great tentacley one=best nickname ever.

[Niezck]

New thread can has spell-checked and neatened monster list? I'll do it if you like, it always just annoys me how badly formatted it is

Also, as I said in the previous thread, the Valkyrie has been updated with your suggestions oh great tentacley one.

@Magic: Way ahead of ya

[Crafty Cultist]

My Bleakborn class Has been under finished for a while, so Could I get some feedback or endorsements about it please?

[Magicyop]

If it's alright with everyone, I'm going to add to the miscellaneous lists is a "Featured Unfinished Monster". Essentially, my pick of a monster which has been unfinished for far too long, and which has been lacking on critiques or endorsements. And what we'll do is all pitch together and try to get the featured monster ready to be added to the finished list. Does that sound okay with everyone?

[Gorgondantess]

Originally Posted by Niezck

New thread can has spell-checked and neatened monster list? I'll do it if you like, it always just annoys me how badly formatted it is

I've tried neatening it up by dividing into a few categories- true dragons, lycanthropes, and now templates. I've also tried to standardize a few other things. Sadly, if I tried hitting it with a spellcheck, I'd get a mass of red squiggles- 90% of the monsters aren't in the dictionary. If you notice any glaring errors, do tell.

Also, as I said in the previous thread, the Valkyrie has been updated with your suggestions oh great tentacley one.

En maneuvers:
I'd like to make a standardized maneuver system, like we have the spellcasting multiclassing system. If you don't have a problem with the reth dekala's maneuver system, use it. If you do have a problem with it, then tell me and we can discuss it.

If it's alright with everyone, I'm going to add to the miscellaneous lists is a "Featured Unfinished Monster". Essentially, my pick of a monster which has been unfinished for far too long, and which has been lacking on critiques or endorsements. And what we'll do is all pitch together and try to get the featured monster ready to be added to the finished list. Does that sound okay with everyone?

The Great Tentacle-y One demands that you do just that.

[Crafty Cultist]

I've just noticed that Kaorti is in the template list for some reason. While kaorti are created by a transformation, they are still lose their racial traits, so the class is a regular monster class rather than a template.

[Gorgondantess]

Originally Posted by Crafty Cultist

I've just noticed that Kaorti is in the template list for some reason. While kaorti are created by a transformation, they are still lose their racial traits, so the class is a regular monster class rather than a template.

No idea what you're talking about.

Update the featured monster, by the way.

[Magicyop]

Originally Posted by Gorgondantess

No idea what you're talking about.

Update the featured monster, by the way.

Hah! Excellent. See, the featured monster works!

Studies show that 100% of monsters which end up on the featured list are put up within 1 day. True story. For now.

[Gorgondantess]

Originally Posted by Magicyop

Hah! Excellent. See, the featured monster works!

Studies show that 100% of monsters which end up on the featured list are put up within 1 day. True story. For now.

More precise studies show that 100% of monsters on the featured list are put up within 5 minutes!

[Niezck]

Well I just fixed a few of the links (some were to thread pages, others to posts within the thread rather than seperately, etc. I've also standardized the "by X" system. Contributed by X is now "by X/Oslecamo" (or whoever updated it) and every person is stated, rather than it just being assumed it's the thread creator if not stated. Plus the odd spelling mistake has been fixed (along with the countless entries of "Gorgondantress" )

Tell me what you think.

Spoiler

A

Abishai - Gorgondantess
Aboleth - by Oslecamo
Achaierai - by Gorgondantess
Air elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Allip - by Temotei
Anaxim - by Draken
Androsphynx - by Oslecamo
Angel of Decay - by Draken
Annis Hag - by Hyudra
Anthropomorphic Animal - by Oslecamo
Aranea - by Oslecamo
Arcanaloth - by Frog Dragon
Arrow Demon - by Cogidubnus
Astral Construct - by Sciencepanda
Astral Stalker - by Fyrebyrd/Oslecamo
Awakened Monstrous Crab - by Flabort
Awakened Skeleton - by Oslecamo

B

Balor - by Oslecamo
Beguiler - by AustontheGreat1
Beholder - by AustontheGreat1
Blink Dog - by AustontheGreat1
Brain in a Jar - by Draken
Bralani - by BelGareth
Bugbear - by Crafty Cultist

C

Centaur - by Oslecamo
Cloud Giantvby Hyudra
Coatlvby Kobold-Bard
Cornugon - by Gorgondantess

D

Daeva - by Gorgondantess
Death Drinker - by Oslecamo
Death Knight - by monkman
Djinni - by Oslecamo
Displacer Beast - by Hyudra
Doppelganger - by Oslecamo
Dracotaur - by monkman
Dragonne - by Oslecamo
Dream Larva - by Magicyop
Drider - by I_Am_An_Undead/Lix Lorn
Dryad - by Bodez/Oslecamo
Duergar - by Jallorn

E

Earth Elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Entomber - by Gorgondantess
Entropic Reaper - by Crafty_Cultist
Erinyes - by Oslecamo
Ettin - by Temotei

F

Firbolg - by Oslecamo
Fire Elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Flind Gnoll - by Gorgondantess
Force Golem - by Gorgondantess
Forest Troll - by Volt
Fire Giant - by Hyudra
Frost Giant - by Hyudra

G

Gelatinous Cube - by Kobold-Bard
Ghaele Eladrin - by Oslecamo
Ghost - by Oslecamo
Ghoul - by CraftY_Cultist/Oslecamo
Githzerai/Githyanki - by Chumplump
Glass Golem - by Cogidubnus
Gloom - by Oslecamo
Gnoll - by Oslecamo
Goristro - by Monkman
Gray Jester - by Oslecamo
Green Hag - by ChumpLump
Grimlock - by Oslecamo
Griffon - by AustontheGreat1
Gynosphynx - by Volt

H

Harpy[/list]- by Hyudra
Hell Hound - by Crafty Cultist
Hill Giant - by Hyudra
Hound Archon - by Oslecamo
Hook Horror - by Frog Dragon
Hydra - by Oslecamo

I

Imp - by Hyudra
Iron Golem - by Gorgodantess

J

Janni - by Kobold-Bard

K

Kaorti - by Crafty Cultist
Kuo-Toa - by Hyudra
Kython - by Crafty_Cultist
Kython, Impaler and Slaymaster - by Crafty Cultist
Kython, Slaughterking - by Crafty Cultist
Kyton - by ChumpLump

L

Lantern Archon - by Volt
Leonal - by BelGareth
Lillend - by Oslecamo

M

Marilith - by Oslecamo
Marrutact - by Gorgodantess
Marraenoloth - by Gorgondantess
Medusa and Choker - by Oslecamo
Mimic - by Sciencepanda
Mind Flayer - by Oslecamo
Minotaur - by Oslecamo
Mephit - by Hyudra
Mezzoloth - by Frog Dragon
Movanic Deva - by Oslecamo
Mummy - by Oslecamo
MurderJack - by FlickerDart/Oslecamo

N

Nashrou - by Makiru
Nerra - by Draken
Nimblewright - by Temotei
Nixie - by Oslecamo
Nycaloth - by Frog Dragon
Nymph - by Bodez

O

Ogre Mage - by Oslecamo
Ogre - by Hyudra
Owlbear - by Kobold-Bard

P

Pegasus - by FirebirdFlying
Phasm - by Oslecamo
Phoelarch - by AustontheGreat1
Phoenix - by Oslecamo/AustontheGreat1
Pit fiend - by Oslecamo
Pixie - by Aranii
Planetouched - by Gorgodantess
Pseudo-Dragon - by Kobold-Bard
Psionic Mindflayer - by Gorgondantess

Q

R

Rakshasa - by Oslecamo
Rakshasa, Naztharune - by Gorgondantess
Ravid - by Kobold-Bard
Red slaad - by Oslecamo
Redcap - by Draken
Reptilians - by Gorgondantess
Reth Dekala - by Gorgondantess
Roving Mauler - by Makiru
Rukanyr - by Makiru
Rust Monster - by Kobold-Bard

S

Sahuagin - by Crafty Cultist
Salamander - by Oslecamo
ScorpionFolk - by Frog Dragon
Sea Hag - by ChumpLump
Shaedling - by Monkman/Gorgondantess
Silthilar - by AustonTheGreat1
Slaad - by Trenelus
Son/Daughter of Silence - by Oslecamo
Soulspark - by Niezck
Succubus - by Oslecamo
Spell Weaver - by Winter King
Stone giant - by Hyudra
Styx Dragon - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Sverfineblin - by ChumpLump

T

Tarrasque - by Oslecamo
Tengu - by Oslecamo
Thri-Kreen - by Oslecamo
Titan - by Kobold Bard
Treant - by Niezck
Troll - by Oslecamo
Tsochar - by Oslecamo

U

Ulitharid - by Oslecamo
Unicorn - by FirebirdFlying

V

Vargouille - by Oslecamo
Vasuthant - by Oslecamo
Vrock - by Gorgondantess

W

War Troll(prc) - by monkman
Water Elemental - by AustontheGreat1
Wight - by Crafty Cultist
Wild Hunt - by Oslecamo
Will-O-Wisp - by Kobold-Bard
Winter Wolf - by Frog Dragon
Wyvern - by Hyudra

X

Xill - by ScionoftheVoid

Y

Yuan-ti - by Oslecamo

Z

Zelekhut(inevitable) - by Oslecamo
Zern - by AustontheGreat1

Lycanthropes:

Spoiler

WereBear - by Crafty_Cultist
WereHydra - by flabort/Oslecamo
WereLizard - by un_known
WereRhino & Werewhathaveyou - by ChumpLump
WereSnake and WereRat - by ChumpLump
WereSpider - by ChumpLump
WereWeasel, WereShark and WereBas - by ChumpLump
Werewolf - by Crafty_Cultist

True Dragons:

Spoiler

Blue Dragon - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon - by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon - by unknown
Golden Dragon - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon - by un_known
Red Dragon - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon - by Oslecamo
White Dragon - by un_known
Wing Dragon - by Oslecamo

Templates:

Spoiler

Evolved Undead - by Gorgondantess
Feral Creature - by Niezck
Gravetouched Ghoul - by Hyudra
Half-Celestial - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Dragon - by Oslecamo
Half-Fey - by Kobold Bard
Half-Fiend - by Crafty_Cultist
Half-Golem - by Oslecamo
Half-Illithid - by Crafty Cultist
Half-Troll - by flabort
Horrid Monster - by Hyudra
Lich - by Crafty_Cultist
Monster of Legend - by Hyudra
Saint - by Magicyop
Spellwarped creature - by Frog Dragon/Oslecamo
Unholy Scion - by Monkman
Vampire - by Oslecamo
Winged Template - by Niezck

[Gorgondantess]

...Wow. You did that fast.
I actually preferred to remove mine & Os's names entirely, but your way is cool too. The reason for this is simply I don't care if I get the credit, really.
Note that I also moved the templates to their own group, something I should've done a long time ago.

[Niezck]

Templates done.

Also, there were so many alphabetical mistakes in that it was hilarious. For a start, it went J L K M

[ChumpLump]

Werespider has been Overhauled.

I would request that the following Therianthropes be edited on the list to match their new names.

Werespider (Hunter)
Werespider (Weaver)
Weretiger
Werelion
Wereleopard
Werecheetah
Wereviper
Weresnake

As well as removing the following until re-posted

Wereweasel
Wereshark

Featured Monster
I love this idea.

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

How often do you get told you're awesome? Not often enough, thinks Lix.

I do what I can. Thanks.

Edit
Oooh and I love the more organization.

[Magicyop]

Originally Posted by Niezck

Templates done.

Also, there were so many alphabetical mistakes in that it was hilarious. For a start, it went J L K M

Don't forget to put in the Shadowperson, which was just added to the list.

Also, we have a new featured monster.

[Mystic Muse]

I like the new monster list. So much easier to navigate.

Hey Gorgon, I have a suggestion on the last thread. Put in somewhat big letters not to post there on the first post too, preferably at the top. One of the other threads was locked because somebody didn't see the very last post.

[TheGeckoKing]

Firstly, I'm gonna call dibs on the Ultroloth, because It's been on the list for ages, the Black Dragon and the T-Rex look done to me, the Cheshire Cat just need more endorsements and maybe The Grammah Hammah, and I was recently reminded on how cool Ultroloths look.

Also, I can't see anything wrong with the Arcadian Avenger, so I hereby endorse it.

[AustontheGreat1]

Okay...

Half Elemental

Water Spout changed to flowing form which grants bonuses to escape artists checks. Thats it for him.

Ragewalker

I removed the bit that I didn't like from Ragewalker. I'd really like to know what anyone thinks about the Capstone. It still needs a second level ability.

Shadowperson

The scaling bit removed from Telepathic Awareness.

Lastly, I like the Cheshire Cat and it only needs one more, so I Endorse it.

[Betropper]

Whoops, sorry for not posting for a while, a bunch of work and stuff.

I'm going to edit the Wereraptor sometime tonight.

[ChumpLump]

Originally Posted by AustontheGreat1

Lastly, I like the Cheshire Cat and it only needs one more, so I Endorse it.

Mmm, Small thing...giving endorsements based on 'it only needs one more' is bad practice. If you like it an think it's perfect, that's a good reason to give an endorsement. I don't think you're giving this endorsement soley based on this 'need,' but your sentence reads as if its one of the reasons. It should not be.

[AustontheGreat1]

Originally Posted by ChumpLump

Mmm, Small thing...giving endorsements based on 'it only needs one more' is bad practice. If you like it an think it's perfect, that's a good reason to give an endorsement. I don't think you're giving this endorsement soley based on this 'need,' but your sentence reads as if its one of the reasons. It should not be.

Your right, I assure you it isn't the primary reason. I completely read the class before endorsing it and couldn't find anything I disagreed with.

[ChumpLump]

Multiple Bonuses to Natural Armor

Spoiler

A lot of Creatures here could get some crazy high Bonuses to Natural Armor Through Templates. In my own system I have written up this solution to that problem, and I propose to add it to the project. If the project doesn't mind the crazy high Bonuses to Natural Armor, ignore this proposal

If a creature gains natural armor bonuses from multiple sources treat them as The following chart.

Base Natural Armor	Extra Natural Armor	Results
1/2 Con Mod	1/2 Con Mod	Full Con Mod as Natural armor Bonus
Anything higher than 1/2 Con Mod	1/2 Con Mod	+1 Nat. AC
Full Con Mod	Full Con Mod	1.5 Con Mod
Anything Higher than Full Con Mod	Full Con Mod	+2 Nat. AC
1.5 Con Mod	Anything higher than Full Con Mod	+3 Nat. AC

Creatures that gain Natural Armor from more than one monster class, that specify different Ability Scores as the base for their Natural Armor Class use whichever Ability Score is higher to derive both Natural Armor Classes, and Uses the Chart Above.

A Chumps Twopence:

Spoiler

Added in a MANAS caveat.
Edited Wording for Bonuses To Natural Armor

[mootoall]

Originally Posted by Magicyop

Featured Monster: Arcadian Avenger
Uphold the power of Law, and defeat all those who try to upset the rightful balance.

This monster is unfinished, something it should not be! Whenever you have some time, take a look at whatever monster is currently featured, and give your thoughts on it. If you like it, help out its creature! Give it an endorsement! If you don't, say what you'd like changed. Let's work together and see the above monster on the finished list soon.

Body of Silver

Spoiler

An Arcadian Avenger loses all other racial traits and becomes an outsider with the following characteristics:
•30ft Base land speed
•Darkvision 60ft
•Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons
•Additionally Avengers are proficient with any light or one-handed exotic weapon of their choice,
•Proficiency with light and medium armour, but not with shields
•Automatic Languages: Celestial and Common
•Natural Armour bonus equal to her Con mod
An Avenger has the Lawful subtype, and also recieves the extraplanar subtype while not on her native plane, The Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia.

Hokay, so, seems pretty normal, but leaves a bit open for cheese. Just struck me that you could dip this for proficiency in Gnomish Quickrazor and, as I'll point out later, free, scaling TWF. This makes an excellent dip for a factotum, as you get free TWF Gnomish Quickrazor Sneak Attack Iajutsu Focus of DOOOOOOOM. However, nothing really to complain about.

I think that, as incentive to keep taking the class, it does need stat bonuses.

Avenger's Armaments

Spoiler

An Avenger recieves Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat at first level. Avengers with six levels in their racial class are granted Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat while those with both six levels in this class at as Base Attack Bonus of +11 or higher receive Greater Two-Weapon Fighting.

Additionally while wielding a slashing weapon in each hand she takes penalties for fighting with two weapons as though her off-hand weapon was light. She applies her full strength bonus to damage with her off-hand weapon rather then the normal one-half.

Beginning at third level any slashing weapon she wields is to be considered magic. Then at sixth they are considered aligned with an alignment matching her own.

Ah, this is how TWF should work, a single scaling feat. Unfortunately, a good amount of my games do work like that, and I find that's a fairly common fix. So, essentially, with games like that I'm getting ... a single bonus feat. Boooooring. Maybe give them a fancy weapon that they can choose? One that scales enchantments with HD? Starts Masterwork, becomes Axiomatic, Flaming, Colliding, Wounding, etc, with the player getting to choose and customize with thematic bonuses? Make it unenchantable except via HD advancing, and let it keep the TWF, so in one hand it gets its own special weapon, and in its other it gets a regular one?

Blade Rend

Spoiler

Starting at second level, an Arcadian Avenger who delivers a hit with both her main and offhand weapon can deliver a twist of her offhand weapon, dealing an additional 1d6+Str mod damage. This damage increases by 1d6 for each additional 3HD, reaching 7d6+Str mod damage at 20HD.

This may occur multiple times in the same attack round, but each iteration requires that she deliver a fresh hit with both her main weapon and her offhand weapon.

Blade Rend is fun. I like this.

Chosen Implement (Ex):

Spoiler

Upon reaching third level an Arcadian avenger chooses a single one-handed or light slashing weapon she is proficient with. While wielding this weapon in both your main and off hand you receive a shield bonus to your Armour Class equal to your HD/4 rounded down. If she has or later obtains the Two-Weapon Defence feat the shield bonus from this ability stacks with that received from the feat.

As she increases in power, her prowess with this chosen weapon increases. At 8HD the penalties for fighting with two of this weapon decreases to -1/-1, at 13HD the penalty disappears entirely.

Ah, this I like, getting rid of the stupid penalties with TWF. But give them a bonus for it anyway. At some level, make TWF as good as using a Two-Hander.

Arcadian Movement (Ex):

Spoiler

Upon reaching fourth level an Arcadian Avenger's wings finally become strong enough to bear her aloft. She gains a flight speed equal to her base land speed with good maneuverability.

Flight is nice, but should it be the only thing it gains at this level? I mean, it's fine if it is, but maybe it should get another minor goodie.

Elude Chance (Su):

Spoiler

Beginning at fifth level an Arcadian Avenger can avoid the uncertainty of chance by tapping directly into the power of law and her home plane. As an immediate action up to HD/2 times per day an Avenger can treat the result of her next melee attack or saving throw as if the result of the die roll were 10.

Fun! But it'd be funner if it had an even better chance of hitting, via STR boni, etc.

Avenger's Wrath (Ex):

Spoiler

Avenger's of sixth level have learned to focus their rage and anger into a powerful force. Any time she scores a critical threat against any enemy threatening one of her allies, she automatically confirms it.

Additionally the Avenger gains the pounce ability, allowing her to make a full-attack at the end of a charge (or dive).

That's ... kinda underwhelming for a capstone. I mean, pounce is nice, but I can get it for a one level dip. And how often are you gonna be making crits? No, I think it should be more unique, unless my suggestion about a unique weapon gets the choice of the Keen enchantment.

[Gorgondantess]

Originally Posted by mootoall

Hokay, so, seems pretty normal, but leaves a bit open for cheese. Just struck me that you could dip this for proficiency in Gnomish Quickrazor and, as I'll point out later, free, scaling TWF. This makes an excellent dip for a factotum, as you get free TWF Gnomish Quickrazor Sneak Attack Iajutsu Focus of DOOOOOOOM. However, nothing really to complain about.

Actually, I advised the single exotic weapon choice. If using a quickrazor would be broken, well, even without that they could get it by spending one feat. Giving things you could just as easily get with a feat is almost never broken.

I think that, as incentive to keep taking the class, it does need stat bonuses.

I actually agree. They look nice.

Ah, this is how TWF should work, a single scaling feat. Unfortunately, a good amount of my games do work like that, and I find that's a fairly common fix. So, essentially, with games like that I'm getting ... a single bonus feat. Boooooring.

We don't work off of houserules here. If you're going to houserule TWF to be better, then you should houserule this ability to be better.

Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing

Firstly, I'm gonna call dibs on the Ultroloth, because It's been on the list for ages, the Black Dragon and the T-Rex look done to me, the Cheshire Cat just need more endorsements and maybe The Grammah Hammah, and I was recently reminded on how cool Ultroloths look.

Also, I can't see anything wrong with the Arcadian Avenger, so I hereby endorse it.

That's not how Ultroloths look.

That's how Ultroloths look. If Diterlizzi has done it, then it's the official image.

[Jallorn]

I must say, I recently built a were-character, and I came here to look at the classes, and was quite disappointed, enough to use the template instead. I recognize that a universal were-template would be difficult, but maybe one that goes by base animal HD or something? Dunno, just an idea.

Oh, specifically what I was disappointed about the current ones was that I had some difficulty figuring them out. They might be better than I thought, but I just don't get how some of the features work.

[Gorgondantess]

Originally Posted by Jallorn

I must say, I recently built a were-character, and I came here to look at the classes, and was quite disappointed, enough to use the template instead. I recognize that a universal were-template would be difficult, but maybe one that goes by base animal HD or something? Dunno, just an idea.

Oh, specifically what I was disappointed about the current ones was that I had some difficulty figuring them out. They might be better than I thought, but I just don't get how some of the features work.

It's pretty much the only thing here that the base monster could be considered better than the monster class one, I'll admit. Here is more flavor and level efficiency than simplicity and buckets o' stat bonuses. Hell, I even prefer the base lycans. That's okay, though- the base lycans are pretty good. It's one of the reasons I'm taking a laissez-faire approach to the therianthropes- I want them to be good, but it's not the main focus, because frankly, we don't need lycan monster classes.
Anyways, if you have complaints, take them up with the chumpmaster.
Also, chump: you say you want the therians updated on the list. Could you make something I can copy/paste?