Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XVI

true_shinken · 12-02-2010, 06:56 PM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XVI. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59pm CUT on Friday, December 10th 2010 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, true_shinken. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, since it breaks anonymity.

Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.

Spoiler

NAME OF ENTRY

Level	Class	Base Attack<br>Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities

Code

Spoiler

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)

Spoiler

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

This week's special ingredient is:
Dungeon Master Guide's Assassin!
We will have trophies for 1st through 3rd places, as well as a special trophy for honorable mention. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez optimiser!

Judges
Kesnit
Grynning
Cieryn
Daragos Kitsune
Quietus

Contestants
Amphetryon
Thurbane
Akal Saris
OMGPonies
TerrickTerran
Kelb_Panthera
Private-Prinny
Tvtyrant
Escheton
BoonL
Xiander
Tam_OConnor
gbprime
Pelfaid
Devmaar
Fax Celestis
BG
dextercorvia
mangosta71
d13
Saint Riddley
Zonugal
WinWin
Amechra
BugBearTrap
Fearan
T G Oskar

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
Iron Chef V: War Chanter
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
Iron Chef XII: War Mind
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master

Dusk Eclipse · 12-02-2010, 07:23 PM

T^T you had to select my favourite PRG class from the DMG... the week I just CAN'T even think on competing didn't you?

Guess I'll sit back as an spectator one more time.... oh well, at least by the end of the week I'll get some awesome ideas for my next assassin

Kesnit · 12-02-2010, 07:25 PM

Wow, such a basic class. :)

A small part of me wants to sign up as a contestant. However, I know I am awful at optimization. (Hey, I LIKE melee classes...) So I am jumping in to judge again.

My judging criteria...

Spoiler

Originality
I tend to look at each entry based on their own merit, rather than compare each to another. If two entries use the same base class, but go about them differently, they won't lose Originality points from me. If the entries are similar, they will. Multiple builds that all use the same "trick" will be marked down.

Power
I stole this from a previous judge, but it sums up my point of view. "Power comes down to, quite simply, how the build would fare in a mid-power campaign." I am not an min-maxer, and I do not play with min-maxers. I'm used to thinking of PCs as they are seen in many of the D&D books - where characters of different types of classes work together to get the job done.

Elegance
I REALLY dislike dipping, which I define as taking 1-2 levels of a base class. (Exceptions to that are if a PrC requires Class A 1/Class B 5, or something to that extent.) I am a little more open to taking 1-2 levels of a PrC, especially in a competition like this where it is expected 10 levels of another PrC will be taken. However, excessive "dipping" of PrCs will also lose Elegance points.

On the flip side, I like a good story. A lot of "strange" class changes and combos can be "overlooked" if the contestant can provide a logical reason for them. Also, I am aware English is not everyone's first language, and if a contestant feels they were marked down because they could not adequately explain their concept, I am willing to reevaluate my analysis of their Elegance. (Note I did not say I will automatically increase their score, but if informed, I will give it a second look.)

As a heads-up, an extremely powerful PC will be marked down if, in my view, it would not work well as a member of a mixed party. (Mixed party defined as "not all PCs are pure casters.") That is not to say any Tier 1 PC will lose points, as they can be built in a way to help (rather than replace) the rest of the party.

Use of Secret Ingredient
The point of this competition is the Special Ingredient, so obviously it should be the focus. Competitors will lose points if they use less than 9 levels of the SI. (I'd prefer to see all 10, but sometimes, things just cannot be helped.) The fewer levels of the SI, the more points I take off.

Beyond that, how well the entire build fits in with the SI. If I feel the SI is tacked on only because it is the SI, I will mark down.

Amphetryon · 12-02-2010, 07:31 PM

Y'all just pencil me in as a contestant every time by now, right?

Competing.

Thurbane · 12-02-2010, 07:44 PM

Right...I'm determined to get an entry in this time. Put me down as a contestant!

Akal Saris · 12-02-2010, 07:48 PM

Yay! My favorite core PrC makes its appearance at last! I've actually used assassin in one of my builds here already

This will be awesome though - I fully expect at least half a dozen poison-using builds that I can then add to my poison users' guide! Get to it people!

Also, I'll release a full list of 3.5-legal classes & PrCs with Death Attacks shortly. I've been working on it for a while now, and I think it will help contestants who are interesting in optimizing that aspect of the assassin.

QUESTION: There are 2 known variants of the assassin - the Avenger and the Psionic Assassin in Secrets of Sarlona. In the interest of more varied competition, can these two variants be used in place of the standard assassin?

true_shinken · 12-02-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akal Saris

QUESTION: There are 2 known variants of the assassin - the Avenger and the Psionic Assassin in Secrets of Sarlona. In the interest of more varied competition, can these two variants be used in place of the standard assassin?

Psionic Assassin is a real variant and it's acceptable. Avenger is a different PrC altogether, so that's a no.

Dusk Eclipse · 12-02-2010, 07:54 PM

What about the Mind's Eye Psychic Assassin? I am not sure if it is different from the Secrets of Sarlona one, but I think it has some merits.

true_shinken · 12-02-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse

What about the Mind's Eye Psychic Assassin? I am not sure if it is different from the Secrets of Sarlona one, but I think it has some merits.

It's also a different class, like the Avenger.

Dusk Eclipse · 12-02-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by true_shinken

It's also a different class, like the Avenger.

Should have figured it out, when it called manifesting level as a pre-req...

OMG PONIES · 12-02-2010, 08:23 PM

Geez, the ONE core PrC I didn't have a basic idea for...I think I've got one now, though. Put me down as a contestant.

Zeofar · 12-02-2010, 08:28 PM

Umm... Maybe I'll compete?

Grynning · 12-02-2010, 08:47 PM

Awww...I was hoping for Arcane Archer, I had a really good idea for it. I was actually going to compete! I do like Assassin though.

Anyways, for this one, put me in my customary judge's chair. I'll post criteria when I get back from eating.

TerrickTerran · 12-02-2010, 09:33 PM

I wouldn't count on me finishing a build, but I'll try it. I've got a few ideas anyways.

Kelb_Panthera · 12-02-2010, 10:09 PM

I've been watching these for a while. I'd like to give it a shot as a contestant.

Akal Saris · 12-02-2010, 10:13 PM

Glad to have you join Kelb :)

Private-Prinny · 12-02-2010, 10:13 PM

I'm tentatively in. I'll see if I can cook up anything. I have no expectations to win with Akal competing.

Especially since the secret to his success is- *is poisoned by Akal*

Tvtyrant · 12-02-2010, 10:16 PM

I might be in? I know exactly what I want to do but I don't know if I have time to do it in. Finals and all that jazz.

Akal Saris · 12-02-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private-Prinny

I'm tentatively in. I'll see if I can cook up anything. I have no expectations to win with Akal competing.

Especially since the secret to his success is- *is poisoned by Akal*

And the most important rule is: Never go in against a Sicilian when Death is on the line!!

gbprime · 12-02-2010, 11:04 PM

Contestant slot for me as well, please.

Kelb_Panthera · 12-02-2010, 11:11 PM

Question: nowhere in the assassins class feature descriptions does it say that he can cast his spells in any kind of armor without incurring arcane spell failure. The bard's ability to cast in light armor is described in his armor and weapon proficiencies, not the description of his spell-casting; which is relevant because the assassins spell-casting class feature is specifically described as working like the bard's spell-casting. Can an assassin cast in light armor, or not?

Thurbane · 12-02-2010, 11:14 PM

Almost exactly the same question came up with the Vigilante's casting in another Iron Chef.

I think the final decsion was that it could be read either way.

Escheton · 12-02-2010, 11:47 PM

I am so in!

Draz74 · 12-02-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akal Saris

I've actually used assassin in one of my builds here already

Me too ... and I won.

I think that excuses me from this Round.

I don't have time IRL to compete anyway ...

FishAreWet · 12-03-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

Question: nowhere in the assassins class feature descriptions does it say that he can cast his spells in any kind of armor without incurring arcane spell failure. The bard's ability to cast in light armor is described in his armor and weapon proficiencies, not the description of his spell-casting; which is relevant because the assassins spell-casting class feature is specifically described as working like the bard's spell-casting. Can an assassin cast in light armor, or not?

honestly I feel that it is intentional for them to be able to

Escheton · 12-03-2010, 12:14 AM

I tend to see assasins more as gentleman killers. Not stooping to wear the armor of warriors, for it is beneath them. As such they are unable to cast in it.

Akal Saris · 12-03-2010, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draz74

Me too ... and I won.

I think that excuses me from this Round.

I don't have time IRL to compete anyway ...

I only got 2nd place with my assassin =(

Jumilk · 12-03-2010, 03:57 AM

Very special trophies in progress...
Shin likes the idea!

Kesnit · 12-03-2010, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escheton

I tend to see assasins more as gentleman killers. Not stooping to wear the armor of warriors, for it is beneath them. As such they are unable to cast in it.

I always saw them as "Rogues with extra stuff," so could cast in light armor, but nothing heavier. *shrug*

BooNL · 12-03-2010, 06:29 AM

Hmm, the Assassin...

This one'll be quite difficult. The assassin is a very niche character and I'm curious to see if anyone can break the standard mold. I'm afraid most builds will look the same.

Regardless, I might be in as a contestant. I can't make any guarantees of finishing, but I'll try.