Hmm reading Rob's replies, I get the impression that its not so much "you have complained about the comic on my website, go elsewhere!", but more similar to same reasons we can't bring up the comic update schedule or morally justified threads on giantitp.
Mamely, it creates a big mess for the moderators, we can't solve those problems by talking about them, and it has a tendency to degenerate into a flytrap for extremists - ala Downwitherf, or into a big flamewar with people for and against erfworld.
I do understand people want to offer constructive criticism, so how about the following solution? People with suggestions for the update schedule email Rob privately with their advice, on the understanding that Rob is free to ignore or not respond - after all he must get tons of email everyday, on all kinds of topics and levels of civility.
Meanwhile anyone who is banned from the ERf forums email Rob to politely ask for their account to be reinstated, on the understanding that they don't talk about the update schedule etc in the forums - simply because of the reasons above, and email Rob directly if they have any suggestions.
As for anyone who simply feels frustrated, why not drop the comic for while and come back later? You could also write out an email expressing your feelings, but wait a couple of days before sending it to check it wasn't just born of the moment.
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Meanwhile anyone who is banned from the ERf forums email Rob to politely ask for their account to be reinstated, on the understanding that they don't talk about the update schedule etc in the forums - simply because of the reasons above, and email Rob directly if they have any suggestions.
Can't speak on the other stuff, however I was banned for saying thing similar to what you just wrote, however because it was in a thread that rob disliked, my account was completely deleted off the board. Every thing that I had ever put forward or speculated (not much, but it was a four year span of attention), gone. Notably, when I did just this, he informed me of this and that nothing could be done to fix the situation.
Maybe my memory's going. I remember Rob (who did dip in on the forums now and then) seeming a bit annoyed about it at times but overall being pretty good about the whole thing. Lumping in the people who are passionate (or, let's be fair, bored) enough to seriously analyze and pick apart the world he created and passionate (or, let's be fair, bored) enough to go stir-crazy asking for more... lumping those people in with trolls and taking out the good people with the bad makes me a bit sad inside. Following it up with a statement that he doesn't care about fairness or rules and will, in fact, ban someone for being reacted to badly is just adding insult to injury.
I think the difference is that these criticisms hit him a lot deeper. When someone complains about the plot, he can laugh it off because he knows the overall direction of the story and because he can see that most fans are enjoying it.
Laughing off criticism of this long delay is a lot harder, because he knows it's a damn shame it's happening, all else aside. I'm sure he didn't want Erf to take such a long break either. He can't say "oh, they're just missing the point" because at least part of him agrees with the basic idea that it's a pity Erf's updates have been stopped for so long.
First: Please behave and don't get this thread closed. I need a place where I can complain.
Second: the whole mess with the Erf-forum is sad. And since I don't am a good writer, I can't make a good strip slay from these twopages. You know, the story of king Banhammer and his doomed bubble kingdom where he allowed only yeasayers.
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Last edited by Sweetie Welf : 05-23-2012 at 01:30 PM.
Hmm reading Rob's replies, I get the impression that its not so much "you have complained about the comic on my website, go elsewhere!", but more similar to same reasons we can't bring up the comic update schedule or morally justified threads on giantitp.
Would be fine if that was the rules he declared. The problem here is that he did not. Erfworld rules for example allows political and religious discussion (is that the same as morally justified?) and the schedule complaints has always gone in the part of the forum marked "Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion." (my bold).
Essentially, the rules as used has gone from "discuss anything, but in a civil manner" to "Step over the invisible line and you get deleted. I won't tell you where it is." And it is a pity, because that was a debate happy but civil community that just got nuked from orbit.
My impression for what it is worth is that Rob is stressed out (probably been for a long time) and has reached the stage of fast and really poor decisions with the inability to back down. This includes giving poor reasons for his actions, like rules-lawyering his own rules to claim that their is no change in policy. And at this stage of being stressed out you can not hear complains with the assumption of good faith, everything is going to sound like "Bla bla bla, you suck! Bla bla bla."
If I am right then there is not much anyone can do about it. (If you are a close personal friend, you might want to invite him for beverage and discussion on how to solve the situation but I am going to go ahead and assume that those in this thread are not.) Constructive criticism will not reach the target, call for boycotts will reinforce the impressions that it is haters out to get him etc. Someone in this thread hoped that some of those who gave most to the Kickstarter should talk to Rob (since Rob wrote that something about those that contribute much deserve to be heard more), I think that would come across as "I gave you 2000 dollars, now do as I say!" so that would just be written of.
So we can just as well chill and hope things will work out. Otherwise it is a pity, it was a promising story.
Tl; dr for stressed out writers: Bla bla bla, you suck! Bla bla bla.
Someone in this thread hoped that some of those who gave most to the Kickstarter should talk to Rob (since Rob wrote that something about those that contribute much deserve to be heard more), I think that would come across as "I gave you 2000 dollars, now do as I say!" so that would just be written of.
You can't buy Rob for 2.000 USD. You need at least 5.000 USD for that according to the Kickstarter reward list. And you can make him cosplay as Wanda in slutty outfit for 10 grands.
Btw, here my own case of "don't know if sad or funny" (bolding by me):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erfworld kickstarter
Thanks, everyone, for supporting Erfworld so far. And if you find that you can't afford to donate, remember that you can do a lot for the project just by telling other people about it. Wish us Luckamancy, we'll need it. :)
Unfortunately we learned from one of the Book 0 updates that luckamancy only shifts good results, and for luck at one point there is bad luck at another one. With the Kickstarter project making several times the amount that was aimed for, what does this promise for the Erfworld project?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Blade
50% analysis, 40% jokes, 10% depression
In about half an hour I'll regret what I wrote above. But right now I think it's funny.
It's not really difficult to tell the difference between "this is bad business/moderation practice and makes for bad PR" and "you're a terrible person and should be made to live on the street." D:
Honestly, as someone who has been with the comic from the beginning, ever since the first... six I think comics went up at once, the whole debacle with the nuclear moderation is kind of heartbreaking to hear about. So this is going to be a bit long, sorry.
I mean, people always complained. Oh sweet marmalade did they complain, and on certain occasions so did I. There were complaints and criticism from Hawaii to Kansas starting more or less the second Erfworld hit the GitP page. People complained about Parson not immediately picking up on all the mechanics, about basically every character (except Scarlet), about more or less every twist and turn in the whole of Book 1. Why isn't Parson rolling over everyone like a katamari, why is Jillian or Stanley anything, why does Wanda get shot, why is Charlie so overpowered, etc etc.
And then in Book 2 too. So and so is carrying the idiot ball, and here's a page-long essay on why not being privy to the reader's information and viewpoint makes this character temporarily braindead for the purpose of driving the plot forward. And so on and so on.
I hear ya. I fell in love with the story that first day and followed it since. I've never had any complaints about the quality of content and never nitpicked it apart like quite a few of the diehards did. That's the main reason I stopped bothering with webcomic forums in the first place.
Quote:
Maybe my memory's going. I remember Rob (who did dip in on the forums now and then) seeming a bit annoyed about it at times but overall being pretty good about the whole thing. Lumping in the people who are passionate (or, let's be fair, bored) enough to seriously analyze and pick apart the world he created and passionate (or, let's be fair, bored) enough to go stir-crazy asking for more... lumping those people in with trolls and taking out the good people with the bad makes me a bit sad inside. Following it up with a statement that he doesn't care about fairness or rules and will, in fact, ban someone for being reacted to badly is just adding insult to injury.
I mean, the point of rules is one of security: that you can learn and follow them and be basically okay. There's a reason the rule of law has been deemed superior to the whim of man, after all! So, uh, basically, seeing Rob declare himself tinpot dictator of all things Erf (even though he always had absolute power) is a real bummer. I could take the long and lengthening delays, the glacial pacing even when updates were happening, but this is too much.
Sorry Erf, I'm out, I don't care any more. As far as I'm concerned, Parson conquered the world, learned that wasn't what was important to him and went home determined to make something of himself.
I got room in my boat for you. At the risk of another warning, people have every right to complain when they give money and updates dry up. It's bad business and downright shady.
I got room in my boat for you. At the risk of another warning, people have every right to complain when they give money and updates dry up. It's bad business and downright shady.
Complaining about bad business is one thing. What was in #849 in this thread went past any reasonable standard of complaining, past most *unreasonable* standards of complaining, and graduated into wishing ill upon people that were once-removed from the issue.
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Last edited by TheEmerged : 05-24-2012 at 08:28 PM.
You can't buy Rob for 2.000 USD. You need at least 5.000 USD for that according to the Kickstarter reward list. And you can make him cosplay as Wanda in slutty outfit for 10 grands.
Had forgotten about that. Maybe a group that did not care about beanies and such should have pooled their resources and forced him to spend the time they bought to do webcomics.
Not that it - if my guesswork is right - would have helped or anything.
I haven't followed erfworld awhile. Check me on this: The reason for the hiatus is that the person who did his illustration became horribly sick and he's been waiting for her to come back online before major work on the comic resumes.
Is what I've just said incorrect? Has the situation changed?
Anyone who has been following Erfworld for the last few months can probably see that something is wrong. I have been trying to avoid talking about it, because it's a very difficult and deeply personal matter.
What's happening is that Xin's mother is gravely ill. Since this summer, we have been hoping that various tests, treatments and surgeries would improve her outlook and she could begin recovery. But that's an emotional roller coaster which is still at full speed. All during this crisis, Xin has taken on round-the-clock care for her mom and new duties for the rest of her family and their business, all while trying her best to continue to illustrate the comic.
In short, she's pretty much going through Hell.
Well, we're at a stopping point at the end of Issue 2, and it's not fair to ask her to continue like this. So I'm saying a word worse than "boop" here, which is "hiatus." Book 2, Issue 3 will not begin until Xin is ready.
Given this, I can understand why Rob might be a bit upset when people pester him about the update schedule. Whether that means the bannings in question are justified or not, I am not competent to say because I haven't frequented their forum in months. Nor, I suspect, is that a topic our there is no mind control citizen! diligent and hardworking mod team would welcome here.
Wait, how did the words I meant to write turn into that? They're better than I thought!
A bit more than that. Xin's mother became sick (and died? Don't remember) and it was impacting the update schedule. So Rob let Xin take off to recover, while Rob decided to do text-only updates during the hiatus for a sorta prequel novella. Assuming that it was only issues with Xin's personal problems that slowed things down before and no need for coordination with another person, this should result in faster updates. This turned out not to be the case, as the pace slowed down to its old plod. Then Rob had a successful Kickstarter program for a voiced rendition of the comic and website upgrades, after which the text updates pretty much slowed down further and then stopped all together. At this point, people started to complain and rant, at which point Rob started banning people. Most recently, he's announced that nothing new is happening until Book 3 starts (which he did give a date for sometime this summer).
But between the Hiatus and the Drama, this can't be good for business.
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I haven't followed erfworld awhile. Check me on this: The reason for the hiatus is that the person who did his illustration became horribly sick and he's been waiting for her to come back online before major work on the comic resumes.
Is what I've just said incorrect? Has the situation changed?
There may be some complaining about the lack of main comic updates, but I think most people have seen that blog post and are willing to accept that delay without grumbling too much. However, if you read the full details of that blog post you should notice something about a prequel novel, aka "Book 0", aka "Inner Peace Through Superior Firepower", that he said he'd be posting as pure text in the mean time with a MWF update schedule. Lack of updates on that is what all the recent complaints have been about.
Unfortunately the following news to the one posted above says that Xin's mother died on October 24th 2011.
I'm sorry for Xin.
I think she's a very good cartoonist and I hope she will have a good career in her future.
Possibly far away from people uncapable of working professionally in their chosen job.
Unfortunately the following news to the one posted above says that Xin's mother died on October 24th 2011.
I'm sorry for Xin.
I think she's a very good cartoonist and I hope she will have a good career in her future.
Possibly far away from people uncapable of working professionally in their chosen job.
Er she hasn't stopped drawing for Erfworld - the comic resumes on the 6th of June
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Most recently, he's announced that nothing new is happening until Book 3 starts (which he did give a date for sometime this summer).
But between the Hiatus and the Drama, this can't be good for business.
Minor thing, it is Book 2, part 3 that is starting. After investing in the hard cover of book one (another project where promises were made and not kept if anyone is keeping count) I decided to wait until all three books were inevitably compiled into a single cover, possibly with some bonus stuff.
Interestingly enough, the end of book 2 part 1 was two years ago almost to the day. My decision to wait has saved me twenty two bucks over the course of the time it has taken parson to fail to walk through two portals.
Complaining about bad business is one thing. What was in #849 in this thread went past any reasonable standard of complaining, past most *unreasonable* standards of complaining, and graduated into wishing ill upon people that were once-removed from the issue.
Yeah, but I wasn't talking about that, nor did I do that.
Unfortunately the following news to the one posted above says that Xin's mother died on October 24th 2011.
I'm sorry for Xin.
I think she's a very good cartoonist and I hope she will have a good career in her future.
Possibly far away from people uncapable of working professionally in their chosen job.
Okay, I misread that and typed up a response to what I thought it said. After rereading it, I see that my... indignation was misplaced, and I'm sorry for venting it at you.
Anyway, while it was misapplied, what's in this spoiler is directed to anyone who says that Xin or anyone else in general should "get over it" or anything in regards to a relative's death.
Although I don't exactly appreciate the constant crap-slinging in Rob's direction, I'll be tactful and not mouth off.
Spoiler
Yes, because it's completely impossible that something else has happened to her in the mean time, and that we're simply not talking about it because it's her business and not our place to talk about it. Couldn't possibly be that.
Also, even not talking about her private business, have you considered that sometimes death in the family causes more than just being sad, and has stuff like dealing with other grieving relatives, and dealing with the deceased's estate? Also, I've learned through personal experience that you get to plan their funeral unless you pay even more money to pay someone else to do it. So yeah, big flipping surprise that there's more to dealing with a dead relative than putting their body in a sack, chucking in over the walls of the municipal dump, and crying for 15 minutes at the nearest restaurant!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doran
Er she hasn't stopped drawing for Erfworld - the comic resumes on the 6th of June
Xin's also been going back and doing art for all the pages of Book 0 that didn't have art, upon release; Rob just hasn't been making a news post on the site every single time. But there have been notifications over Facebook.
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Okay, I misread that and typed up a response to what I thought it said. After rereading it, I see that my... indignation was misplaced, and I'm sorry for venting it at you.
Anyway, while it was misapplied, what's in this spoiler is directed to anyone who says that Xin or anyone else in general should "get over it" or anything in regards to a relative's death.
Although I don't exactly appreciate the constant crap-slinging in Rob's direction, I'll be tactful and not mouth off.
Spoiler
Yes, because it's completely impossible that something else has happened to her in the mean time, and that we're simply not talking about it because it's her business and not our place to talk about it. Couldn't possibly be that.
Also, even not talking about her private business, have you considered that sometimes death in the family causes more than just being sad, and has stuff like dealing with other grieving relatives, and dealing with the deceased's estate? Also, I've learned through personal experience that you get to plan their funeral unless you pay even more money to pay someone else to do it. So yeah, big flipping surprise that there's more to dealing with a dead relative than putting their body in a sack, chucking in over the walls of the municipal dump, and crying for 15 minutes at the nearest restaurant!
Xin's also been going back and doing art for all the pages of Book 0 that didn't have art, upon release; Rob just hasn't been making a news post on the site every single time. But there have been notifications over Facebook.
While I do not disagree the least with what you said about family, I'd like to remind you that we have focused our anger and disappointment (and in some cases, hate) at Rob. Even HateGuyFrom#849 solely directed at Rob. And Rob, as nice a guy he is, has to endure the crap that's thrown at him. Remember: he is getting an advance of 3.000 USD every month from his readers (or at least the tools within them) to write comics. Even if it's only revenue and not gain since it's supposed to be traded for comics and merchandise, it's a lot. Especially since ad revenue covers the running costs of the website, and (afaik) shipping costs still need to be paid in actual money. And for that money he produces very few output.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Blade
50% analysis, 40% jokes, 10% depression
In about half an hour I'll regret what I wrote above. But right now I think it's funny.
While I do not disagree the least with what you said about family, I'd like to remind you that we have focused our anger and disappointment (and in some cases, hate) at Rob. Even HateGuyFrom#849 solely directed at Rob. And Rob, as nice a guy he is, has to endure the crap that's thrown at him. Remember: he is getting an advance of 3.000 USD every month from his readers (or at least the tools within them) to write comics. Even if it's only revenue and not gain since it's supposed to be traded for comics and merchandise, it's a lot. Especially since ad revenue covers the running costs of the website, and (afaik) shipping costs still need to be paid in actual money. And for that money he produces very few output.
Yes, that's why I redacted and apologized for the statement; I could have just deleted the post, as it was my post and was the latest in the tread, and pretended it never happened, but I made a mistake and I own up to my mistakes.
As I said, my post was originally typed up in response to something I read incorrectly, not due to any ambiguity in meaning. The error was wholly on my part.
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While I do not disagree the least with what you said about family, I'd like to remind you that we have focused our anger and disappointment (and in some cases, hate) at Rob. Even HateGuyFrom#849 solely directed at Rob....
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please do not discussed banned posters or their scrubbed comments.
However, in the interest of factual correctness, post #849 contained a terrible claim that Rob's family should suffer and die horribly, and other posts by that poster contained violent, expletive-ridden comments about supporters of Erfworld and disinterested third-parties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf
And Rob, as nice a guy he is, has to endure the crap that's thrown at him.
That may be true, but it's not completely true here. Personal insults against other posters, even infrequent ones, are strictly prohibited.
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Yep. Got three pages, first is done. (Second is being re-done, third might need to be re-done pending on changes in the second) Getting the laptop back from the repair shop tonight, and then we're gonna bug Rob :D
Eeh...not as good as some as a good deal of the earlier stuff. Easing us back into it maybe? Certainly don't feel compelled to check for updates periodically anymore.
Well, looks like tomorrow is "Will be returning to regular updates on June 6" Day. I'm not completely holding my breath, but I hope I don't have to move Erfworld into my "does not care" pile.
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