I think you folks are overlooking something. The setup was NOT for Statley being dead, but for for how Charlie found out. I there is something bigger comeing up here.
Well sure, but Don didn't need to say that explicitly that Slately was croaked for us to know Charlie had found out. The Arkendish and Bunny's line would've been enough.
I have a feeling (small feeling) that that'll be the subject of Retconjuration at some point.
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The setup was NOT for Slately being dead, but for how Charlie found out.
Also, this gives a chance for Charlie to slip, as in revealing that he has information that he shouldn't have.
That would allow JS and/or Transsilvito to come to the conclusion that Charlie can tap into the spy-bats and/or thinkagrams.
And reach that conclusion independently from GK or MK
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I think you folks are overlooking something. The setup was NOT for Statley being dead, but for for how Charlie found out. I there is something bigger comeing up here.
I know that, but it made that reveal regardless. As said before they did not have to reveal it then and it is a reveal that would have been better placed with the current page.
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This way, the discerning reader gets to feel smart for figuring out 1) he was right about Slately and the double, 2) that Bunny controls the bat via Thinkamancy, and that 3) Charlie can tap non-call Thinkamancy links (see also: the eyebooks) and possibly even normal calls (see also: Maggie's insistence on hiding her call within the G-strings of a normal call rather than just calling)
But we don't know that 3 is true. In fact, I don't believe it is. We have no evidence that Charlie can tap into a bat's natural thinkamancy the way he can other forms of thinkamancy.
(We also don't know how much influence he actually has over the eyebooks, or whether he's actually able to intercept messages over them. Parson presumed he could and decided to be cautious, but we've never had any indication that Charlie could do anything but use them to communicate.)
Even if he could, the eyebooks are not natural thinkamancy. Remember, an overlord's knowledge of his side is also natural thinkamancy. If Charlie can tap natural thinkamancy, he knows essentially everything -- everything seen by every single scout, the entire composition of every single side, etc. This seems unlikely.
Last edited by Aquillion : 09-14-2012 at 12:35 AM.
But we don't know that 3 is true. In fact, I don't believe it is. We have no evidence that Charlie can tap into a bat's natural thinkamancy the way he can other forms of thinkamancy.
Not per se, no, but I wouldn't put it past him and the Arkendish to be able to do that.
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Originally Posted by Aquillion
(We also don't know how much influence he actually has over the eyebooks, or whether he's actually able to intercept messages over them. Parson presumed he could and decided to be cautious, but we've never had any indication that Charlie could do anything but use them to communicate.)
But the chat function, which Charlie explicitly hijacked, was the only part of the eyebooks that were Thinkamancy. The notes, the drawings, the Hamstard panels, etc. were all Jack's domain, Foolamancy (see also Jack's upgrade to the eyebooks), and thus impervious to Charlie's all-seeing eye. I will admit, however, that we don't know whether Charlie could (or cared to) access the other conversations used through the eyebooks, but if he could that would support my theory about his powers.
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Originally Posted by Aquillion
Even if he could, the eyebooks are not natural thinkamancy. Remember, an overlord's knowledge of his side is also natural thinkamancy. If Charlie can tap natural thinkamancy, he knows essentially everything -- everything seen by every single scout, the entire composition of every single side, etc. This seems unlikely.
But Don's knowledge of the bat does not equal Don's knowledge of what the bat sees. That is Bunny's domain. I can't find the exact page, but when Tramennis leads the Jetstone army into Spacerock, Don says "When the battle starts, I want you to send that bat's [said bat hanging from the top of the tower] view to everyone in here." This implies, to my mind, that Bunny was sharing the view with Don out of Duty. My point being that it seems to be a closer link to the Thinkamancer than to the Ruler. Of course, a lot of this depends on what Charlie says in the upcoming update, and what (if anything) he lets slip.
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Well, it's mostly academic, since I think we can all agree that Charlie knows that the king is a duplicate now (they wouldn't have cut to that panel of the Arkendish right as it was said, otherwise.) The exact way he learned it isn't really so important at the moment.
Well, it appears as if Jetstone has a few options now to avoid being manacled at end of turn with Slately dead. Provided that a ditto'd King cannot designate a heir...
1) Go barbarian. Charlie would put them on contract to provide Upkeep until they reach Charlescomm units to transfer their captive Decrypted Archon, then provide enough schmuckers to start a new side in their former capital. This seems the most likely scenario.
2) Join with Transylvito, again under contract with Charlie until such time as the Decrypted Archon is delivered.
3) Join a further side, again sponsored and dictated by Charlie.
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From what I understand, If Slatley's double cannot designate an heir then there is nothing they can do when he pops away. A barbarian side is a side with a ruler but no city, like Jillian's side before she rebuilt FAQ. Normally if a ruler doesn't have an heir when he croaks then those in the field are disbanded (like with Unaroyal) and those in cities are frozen until they are captured or croaked (which is what Parson was worried about when Stanley fled Gobwin Knob in Book 1).
Under normal conditions a ruler with no designated heir dieing, means it is game over for that side. Creating a double of your ruler seems to bend that rule.
Of course, if a ruler's double is enough to keep a side alive it stands to reason that it is enough to designate an heir. Though I could be wrong on that.
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Last edited by Lizard Lord : 09-15-2012 at 02:54 AM.
From what I understand, If Slatley's double cannot designate an heir then there is nothing they can do when he pops away. A barbarian side is a side with a ruler but no city, like Jillian's side before she rebuilt FAQ. Normally if a ruler doesn't have an heir when he croaks then those in the field are disbanded (like with Unaroyal) and those in cities are frozen until they are captured or croaked (which is what Parson was worried about when Stanley fled Gobwin Knob in Book 1).
Under normal conditions a ruler with no designated heir dieing, means it is game over for that side. Creating a double of your ruler seems to bend that rule.
Of course, if a ruler's double is enough to keep a side alive it stands to reason that it is enough to designate an heir. Though I could be wrong on that.
I'd say it's enough. Slately (referring to the double) still seems to have an Overlord's abilities (such as sensing all of the units under his control - he doesn't seem to have noticed anything different) and if the city has gone neutral then why does everyone still have Jetstone livery when we know a neutral city gets blank banners?
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I'd say it's enough. Slately (referring to the double) still seems to have an Overlord's abilities (such as sensing all of the units under his control - he doesn't seem to have noticed anything different) and if the city has gone neutral then why does everyone still have Jetstone livery when we know a neutral city gets blank banners?
Double-Slately is close enough to the real thing for the world to accept that his side still has a Ruler, and good enough to duplicate the accessories Ace made for him. I would be a bit disappointed if he can, so far, do *everything* Slately could do except designate an Heir, so I want there to be some other reason this revelation is going to suck for Jetstone.. perhaps creating an Heir is not an instant title/ability change, and some wrinkle in the order-of-operations for unit cleanup means the Double spell is going to end before Tramennis actually becomes Heir, even if Charlie does honor the bounty on that Archon.
Charlie may be calling with a different offer, however - maybe he has a way to keep the Double active past the usual limits of such a spell.
Double-Slately is close enough to the real thing for the world to accept that his side still has a Ruler, and good enough to duplicate the accessories Ace made for him. I would be a bit disappointed if he can, so far, do *everything* Slately could do except designate an Heir, so I want there to be some other reason this revelation is going to suck for Jetstone.. perhaps creating an Heir is not an instant title/ability change, and some wrinkle in the order-of-operations for unit cleanup means the Double spell is going to end before Tramennis actually becomes Heir, even if Charlie does honor the bounty on that Archon.
Charlie may be calling with a different offer, however - maybe he has a way to keep the Double active past the usual limits of such a spell.
Hey, here's a thought! Maybe he's gettin da sadness because he just found out he's dead and what's left's got maybe a turn or two to live! That would be TERRIBLE to learn!
... Or, taking the archon's statement into account possibly a double can't spend shmuckers.
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Jillian was a bit of a sub from the start it seems. (Big surprise)
Lots of punny names in this one including Lord Vitaly Important of Frenemy (I thought the Wolverine one was best though). So Wanda got some payback there at least.
After this I wonder how much Wanda knew about Jillian ahead of time and how much she knows about things off Erfworld. The cemetary/headstones are one thing, but an angel, that's pushing it. I really can't tell if Wanda is trying to do here. Break Jillian to get info about Faq. Test Jillian in some way. Learn about Jillian as a person or help her in some way. Or a combination of these.
Jillian was a bit of a sub from the start it seems. (Big surprise)
Lots of punny names in this one including Lord Vitaly Important of Frenemy (I thought the Wolverine one was best though). So Wanda got some payback there at least.
After this I wonder how much Wanda knew about Jillian ahead of time and how much she knows about things off Erfworld.
Even if Jillian's only giving small snippets of info, if Wanda can tell what's the truth and what's a lie, then she could probably peace those smaller bits into a larger story. And that's assuming Jillian isn't getting trauma-induced amnesia.
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The cemetary/headstones are one thing, but an angel, that's pushing it. I really can't tell if Wanda is trying to do here. Break Jillian to get info about Faq. Test Jillian in some way. Learn about Jillian as a person or help her in some way. Or a combination of these.
Induce stockholm syndrome, perhaps? Get her more willing to speak with her? There was a pretty famous case where a group of hostages (In Moscow, i believe?) fought off the police while the people that held them at gunpoint for days escaped.
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Remember that Wanda is out to destroy Haffaton from within. I'm not sure how she will do that and maybe she don't know either. But an heir from another kingdom...could open up possibilities.
What if Wanda defected to this new kingdom? Would she take all her uncroaked with her? Would a massive fight break out between the uncroaked and whatever Haffaton has left? Would a critically weakend Haffaton be swamped by enemies from all sides? Seems likely.
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Sems to me that Wanda would want to make very sure Haffaton was toast and personally destroy out a certain caster of theirs. Or at least be on hand to witness it. Just weakening Haffaton does not seem like enough.
Appearing as several different villains....very subtle Charlie.
I find it more sutle - and telling - that as the call progresses the King morphs into a pawn.
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Yeah, but right before THAT he actually DOES become a king chess piece.
The progression into a chess piece starts before that, as he first loses his color, then becomes increasingly stylized with the radish on his crown assuming the traditional cross shape. Losing that is only the final stage. From the very beginning the symbolism is that he's becoming merely a piece in Charlies game rather then his own.
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I think this is really showing that Charlie is VERY scared of Parson.
And possibly from Stupidworld as well, as he used the word "kill" rather than "croak". All of the villain signamancy he's putting off there could be another sign, however Erfworld does seem to naturally show us all sorts of punny things like that anyhow...
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I think this is really showing that Charlie is VERY scared of Parson.
What makes you think Charlie is being honest with his pawn? After all we have yet to see how Charlie proposes to achieve his objective but telling Slately "Simple, we kill the Fatman" beyond just being yet another pop-culture reference makes a whole lot more sense telling him "Simple, you sacrifice your side so I can capture Hamster and his magic bracer."
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How does Charlie know that Slately's the double? The old "You just told me" gag? Some artifact we're not aware of?
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