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Old 01-09-2011, 03:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Psyren
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Default Psionics Unleashed - How Psionics Works in Pathfinder

Psionics Unleashed - how Psionics works in Pathfinder

*UNDER CONSTRUCTION* (this note will be removed when the update is complete.)

10/25/12
When I wrote this guide almost 2 years ago, not only was my understanding of Pathfinder much more limited, but several important changes/errata have been made to the material itself since then. As such, there are a number of revisions I'm going to be making to improve the accuracy, readability, and overall quality of this guide.

More than any other subsystem in D&D, Psionics has been my passion (as my username may indicate) since its 3.5 revision. (To be clear, I was a fan of the concept since before then, but it wasn’t until 3.5 that the quality of WotC’s crunch was on par with the idea.) Though Paizo has yet to come up with their own, first-party version of the system in Pathfinder, I was very happy to find that the talented and dedicated designers at Dreamscarred Press (DSP) were willing to carry the torch to this new environment in their stead. To date, I’ve pre-ordered Psionics Unleashed, Psionics Expanded and Ultimate Psionics from them (supporting their kickstarter for the latter), and consider every penny well-spent. As such, I feel I am in a comfortable position to evaluate the overall quality of DSP’s design.

My verdict? The quality is stellar. Pathfinder raised the gameplay bar considerably, delivering solidly on the “3.5, but better” desires that many of us 3.5 fans had, and earning their place as a solid household name in tabletop gaming. This left DSP with high expectations to meet; though they are third-party publishers for this system, it is my opinion that their material is every bit as good - and in fact better in several places - than the primary source offerings for Pathfinder.

But much has changed - both grand and subtle - between 3.5 and PF, and not just where psionics is concerned. As a result, I put this guide together to help lovers of psionics like myself - and perhaps even those playgroups that are just wondering what the fuss is all about - understand what exactly has changed between the two versions and what they’ll need to keep in mind as they go forward into introducing or reintroducing psionics to their campaigns.

Special and copious thanks go to Saph for granting me permission to reference the excellent 3.5/Pathfinder Handbook. Please read Saph's guide before this one (if you haven't already) for general tips on how 3.5. differs from Pathfinder; it is assumed that you will be, if not versed in this information, at least exposed to the differences going forward.

As I mentioned at the start of the previous iteration of this guide, there's always a chance I'll get something wrong, or need to provide clarification around a given point or recommendation. If so, please feel free to chime in and let me know your feedback - whether positive or constructive.

Without further ado - the handbook.

Last edited by Psyren : 10-25-2012 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Overhaul
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:16 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
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Default Re: Psionics Unleashed - how Psionics works in Pathfinder

Reserved #1

Last edited by Psyren : 10-25-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
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Default Re: Psionics Unleashed - how Psionics works in Pathfinder

2. Intro



As with Saph's handbook, the purpose of this guide is to answer two main questions:

1. What’s changed?

2. Is it any good?


If you were a fan of psionics in 3.5., the answer to the second question is thankfully "yes!" The Dreamscarred Press folks know what they're doing where psionics is concerned. In true Pathfinder tradition, the races and classes have all been overhauled, such that going 1-20 in a base class is now very viable. Prestige classes still exist, but you will no longer feel as though you’re missing out by not taking one.

The answer to the first question, meanwhile, is a bit more complex. For most people, I envision it to be "more than you know, and less than you think." There are some changes that caught me by surprise; furthermore, it’s important to be as aware of what hasn’t changed, and why, as what has. But don't feel overwhelmed - this is still, at it's heart, the psionics system that fans know and love.

Enough preamble - let’s open our minds!

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Old 01-09-2011, 03:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
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Default Re: Psionics Unleashed - how Psionics works in Pathfinder

3. General Changes - Races, Skills, Feats

Races

As with Core Pathfinder, the psionic races are all much stronger than their 3.5. equivalents. The "net bonus" rule of thumb is still in effect - namely, that all player races should have a net stat bonus of +2. (This generally either means that they get +2 to any one stat, or +2 to two different pre-set stats with a -2 to a third stat.) The Pathfinder removal of LA from player races has been applied to these guys as well. A summary of the stat changes follows:

Spoiler


In addition: all of these races, rather than simply getting an innate PP reserve of varying size, get Wild Talent as a bonus feat. Moreover, this version of Wild Talent automatically converts to Psionic Talent if they take levels in a psionic class (even if they multiclass into one at some point after first level.) These feats are identical to their XPH versions.

This change is fantastic. It's like every psionic race gets a bonus feat, AND stat adjustments, AND racial abilities (I'll cover those in a bit), all for 0 LA. Pathfinder did a great job of moving us all away from "Human" as the knee-jerk race choices for everything. Sure, Wild and Psionic Talent aren’t the greatest feats around, but they’re still free and better than what we had before.

Skills

System Changes

See Saph's guide - the same changes to the underlying system apply here.

New Skills

Perhaps I should just say "new skill." Autohypnosis has come back, but has some changes from its XPH version. Psicraft and UPD have been removed/rolled into Spellcraft and UMD, respectively. This is an expansion of the transparency rules in the 3.5 SRD, as those skills did not previously cover psionics.

The book does state that you can reinstate these separate skills if you wish, but recommends that you do so as part of the broader Psionics Is Different campaign variant, rather than psionics and magic being transparent with respect to powers but not skills. For the sake of simplicity, I will assume transparency as the default situation in this guide and my recommendations.

Autohypnosis changes:

Spoiler


Feats

This being Pathfinder, feats are now earned more quickly over a characters career (every odd level rather than the regular progression.) See Saph's handbook or the PFSRD for more.

With Pathfinder's greater number of feats, the continued existence of feat taxes (like Psionic Meditation, which is unchanged) is less onerous.

Item Creation

In keeping with UMD and Spellcraft taking over for UPD and Psicraft, the item creation feats have also been combined. Craft Dorje, Imprint Stone and their ilk are gone. Instead, Craft Wand is used to make Dorjes, Craft Staff to make Psicrowns, Scribe Scroll to make Power Stones etc. The only true psionic item creation feats that remain separate are Scribe Tattoo and Craft Cognizance Crystal.

I'll cover the feats in greater detail later as well.

Last edited by Psyren : 10-25-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Psyren
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

4. Races (Detailed)

The following apply to all psionic player races in Pathfinder:

- 0 LA: PF's best change. Don't drag the humans down; raise the nonhumans up!

- Wild Talent: As I mentioned above, psionic races simply get Wild Talent as a bonus feat rather than having an innate PP reserve. At any point that you take levels in a psionic class, this becomes Psionic Talent instead.

- Psionic Aptitude: When leveling in a psionic class, any of the main psionic races can, instead of gaining a hit point or skill point, gain a power point instead. Given that one power point is roughly worth 5 hp (Vigor), for the vast majority of psionic race/class combinations this is the best option available. Combined with the above, plus Pathfinder's increased number of feats and bonus feats, you can get a truly impressive number of power points with little investment. (This option effectively makes every psionic race a Kalashtar.)

Blues

Spoiler


Dromites:

Spoiler


Duergar

Spoiler


Elans

Spoiler


Half-Giants

Spoiler


Maenads

Spoiler


Ophiduans

Spoiler


Xephs

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-01-2013 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
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5. The Classes (Base)

As with core Pathfinder, the psionic classes have gotten stronger than their 3.5. versions. In addition to gaining additional class features, these features tend to scale with or otherwise be improved by class level, making PrCing out more of a trade-off.

Psion

Spoiler


Psychic Warrior

Spoiler


Soulknife

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-13-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

5. The Classes Continued (Wilder + PrCs)

Wilder

Spoiler


Prestige Classes
Just when you thought, after that last section full of juicy class features, that it would be easy to stay in your base class, you come here only to find that the PrCs have been upgraded too. And they are more fun than ever. Hey, no one said building a character had to be easy

In the original version of this guide, I was unfamiliar with the class skill system in Pathfinder and so made some judgments that appear confusing in retrospect. In a nutshell - in PF, you get all the benefits of a given skill being a class skill with just one point in it; so even if a given skill isn’t a class skill for a PrC, that doesn’t actually matter the way it did in 3.5. This is why, for example, many of these PrCs don’t have Autohypnosis, and some are even missing Knowledge (Psionics) - they don’t need them, because all the base classes have those skills already.

Random note: Cerebremancer, Slayer, Psion Uncarnate, Psionic Fist, Thrallherd and War Mind get massive props from me for having better artwork than the WotC versions in the XPH.

Cerebremancer

Spoiler


Elocater

Spoiler


Metamind

Spoiler


Psion Uncarnate

Spoiler


Psychic Fist

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-07-2013 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

5. The Classes Continued (Remaining PrCs)

Phrenic Slayer

Spoiler


Pyrokineticist

Spoiler


War Mind


Thrallherd

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Old 01-09-2011, 03:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Psyren
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Post Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

8. The Powers

Pathfinder made some noticeable changes to the powers from the XPH. Many of the changes were subtle; holes were plugged through which optimizers might have otherwise escaped; other powers were given augmentation options that did not previously exist, allowing them to scale better; and some were simply renamed to get away from "X, Psionic: as X, except as noted here." Some were quite drastic alterations, such as the merging of two or more existing powers into one. While I'll review all the powers here, I'll spend more time of course on the ones that changed - those that didn't, I'll simply flag as being identical to their XPH version and move on.

General Changes

This is not an exhaustive list - as more occur to me I may update it.
  • As stated earlier, elemental powers no longer let you choose the damage type on the fly (unless you are a kineticist.) You must instead choose your "default" energy type, and can change it only when you gain psionic focus (or temporarily when you surge, if you're a wilder.) I have warmed to this change, as in 3.5. there was little reason not to be a Wilder rather than a Kineticist if all you wanted to do was blast.
  • There are now two exceptions to the "psionics have no components" rule:
    1. Crystals: Three powers (Bend Reality, Reality Revision and Incarnate) have had their XP costs replaced with GP costs. These are represented in the default fluff by needing specially treated or cut crystals that focus your psionic power, and are burned out once you manifest. An adaptation exists that lets you dispense with crystals (even psicrystals) entirely if your campaign wishes - replacing them with other materials, like special thought-focusing incense, or phials of refined ectoplasm etc. - but the gp cost remains the same. Psicrystals can be replaced with things like dolls of the character, ectoplasmic homunculi etc. Though DSP did their best to keep the system totally component-free (and did a fantastic job imo), balancing every single effect without gp costs no doubt proved difficult - particularly for such an open-ended effect as Reality Revision. It does make a certain amount of sense that such a powerful ability would require outside help.
    2. Purely Mental Actions: All Psionic Powers are purely mental actions, just as they were in D&D. However, it has been clarified that powers that require you to subsequently touch the target, point your finger etc. need you to be able to move (i.e. not paralyzed or bound) first. This is not a full-on somatic component, merely a clarification that you still can't, say, Feat Leech someone (requires a touch attack) if they have your arms manacled behind you. Similarly, powers that involve speaking (e.g. Compelling Voice) will work while silenced/gagged, but probably won't be very effective. Though maybe your allies can gather something from you appearing in their heads saying "Mmmrph mmrph!!!"
  • Negative levels no longer affect your ability to manifest powers - this includes your power points, powers known, and the maximum you can spend on a power (since your ML is also unchanged.) This is in keeping with Pathfinder's rule that negative levels don't affect spellcasters' casting abilities either. The other penalties (reduced attack rolls and saves, etc.) are just as they are in Pathfinder. Your effective ML is also decreased - this affects variables such as ability to overcome PR, power durations etc.
  • "Talents": In addition, some of the lower-level powers on this list have what I'll call a "cantrip option." Reminiscent of 3.0's Talents (psionic cantrips), these powers have an option that lets you manifest them free of charge, but usually (though not always) disables their other augmentations. To manifest them this way you must typically expend psionic focus.

    Here is a nice trick though - unlike the "Discipline Talents" from the Psion section, which work much the same way, manifesting these powers with the cantrip option does allow you to apply Metapsionic feats to them.

Without further ado:
(R) = Renamed XPH Power, for easy identification of those.
(N) = New power (same reason).
Buffs are blue.
Nerfs are red.
The color of a power's name gives its overall ranking relative to its XPH version. This may be due to changes specific to the power itself, or general differences between PF and 3.5.

A

Spoiler


B

Spoiler


C

Spoiler


D


Spoiler


E

Spoiler


F

Spoiler


G

Spoiler


H

Spoiler


I

Spoiler


K

Spoiler


L

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-20-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

M

Spoiler


N

Spoiler


O

Spoiler


P

Spoiler


Q

Quintessence: Unchanged

R

Spoiler


S

Spoiler


T

Spoiler


U

Spoiler


V

Spoiler


W

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-18-2013 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Reserved #10, feel free to post away
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

I'll be listening. Would like to know what they are like from others to better make a judgement.
Will you be listing how they might be better and worse than XpH?
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

I'm just wondering if the Soulknife has been salvaged or if I'm better off with a Psychic Warrior still.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
I'll be listening. Would like to know what they are like from others to better make a judgement.
Will you be listing how they might be better and worse than XpH?
Overall the classes are better, and certainly the races are better. Some leaks have been plugged in the powers (notably Bestow Power and Feat Leech, among others) to cut down on some of the exploits so lovingly detailed in Kalaska's Psionic Tricks handbook. And some just plain work now that didn't before (hai2u, Metaconcert!)

But all in due time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
I'm just wondering if the Soulknife has been salvaged or if I'm better off with a Psychic Warrior still.
Oh, it has been salvaged But whether you are better off with a Psywar depends on your personal preference. Psywars are still stronger, simply because gish melee > non-gish melee. That's a law of 3.5. that has not changed here.

But if you're asking "can the Pathfinder Soulknife hold its own now?" The answer is an emphatic yes.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
I'm just wondering if the Soulknife has been salvaged or if I'm better off with a Psychic Warrior still.
The new Soulknife is awesome. Twin Strike is cool, Furious Charge is amazing, new Psychic Strike is amazing. I think the new Soulknife is probably the best class for a dual-wielder ever written in d20. Ok, maybe I'm going too far.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
Oh, it has been salvaged But whether you are better off with a Psywar depends on your personal preference. Psywars are still stronger, simply because gish melee > non-gish melee. That's a law of 3.5. that has not changed here.

But if you're asking "can the Pathfinder Soulknife hold its own now?" The answer is an emphatic yes.
Excellent. I can pull out one of my favorite characters, EVAR, again, a Thri-kreen Soulknife/Nomad, and have him do more than make the Prince of Persia look like a jumping chump.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
The new Soulknife is awesome. Twin Strike is cool, Furious Charge is amazing, new Psychic Strike is amazing. I think the new Soulknife is probably the best class for a dual-wielder ever written in d20. Ok, maybe I'm going too far.
You might not be wrong. Dual-wield doesn't actually have that much good support, at least not contained in a single class. You can make it good by pulling across like seven sources, but there isn't really a single thing you can hand to somebody and say "You want to dual-wield? Here, use this, you'll be alright." Especially not a base class (Tome of Battle classes are a tolerably close imitation, tho.)
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
You might not be wrong. Dual-wield doesn't actually have that much good support, at least not contained in a single class. You can make it good by pulling across like seven sources, but there isn't really a single thing you can hand to somebody and say "You want to dual-wield? Here, use this, you'll be alright." Especially not a base class (Tome of Battle classes are a tolerably close imitation, tho.)
(Mystic) Ranger does it pretty well and it's a base class, but you need splatbook support to get the good spells.
And even then, Unleashed Soulknife does it better.
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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there isn't really a single thing you can hand to somebody and say "You want to dual-wield? Here, use this, you'll be alright."
Well, there's Revenant Blade.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Psion breakdown finished. Whoo, that took a while! For those of you waiting with bated breath for Wilders and Soulknives, not to worry - they are coming
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

Okay, So far, reading part 1:
Only Cons so far
Skills nerfed (authohypnosis mostly as fear/poison benefits require additional roll).
No longer energy powers on the fly (with Kinecist/Wilder exception).

Hmm, so Astral Construct wasn't nerfed like Complete Psionics? That is a relief.

So far so good.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:06 AM   Top  -  End  -  #22
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Racial analysis is done. Color coding: Blue = better, Black = Neutral, Red = Worse. (Though as with all things my rankings are open to debate.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
Okay, So far, reading part 1:
Only Cons so far
Skills nerfed (authohypnosis mostly as fear/poison benefits require additional roll).
No longer energy powers on the fly (with Kinecist/Wilder exception).
What made it more annoying was it was a stealth nerf, like how WotC tried to slip that Astral Construct thing past us and then give us back our own abilities with a mediocre PrC

It's not really that big a deal, but given that many of psionics' disadvantages vs. magic remain (I'm looking at you, stacking metamagic) we didn't need to lose any more of what we had just to make a single discipline look better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
Hmm, so Astral Construct wasn't nerfed like Complete Psionics? That is a relief.
Believe me, that was one of the first things I checked All looks well on that front though.
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:02 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

You'll want to fix the bullet point list for the Half-Giant. Also,

Quote:
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[size="4"][*]Their Energy Ray is now 1/2 HD manifester level, rather than being stuck at 1. Yeah! (Though it's still 1/day. Boo.)
It was never stuck at manifester level 1.

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Psi-Like Ability: 1/day—energy ray. A dromite always deals the kind of energy damage that its chitin has resistance to (for example, a dromite who has resistance to cold 5 deals cold damage with its energy ray). Manifester level is equal to ½ Hit Dice (minimum 1st). The save DC is Charisma-based.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Quote:
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(Dromite quote)

It was never stuck at manifester level 1.
I corrected that, but the SRD actually says "Manifester Level 1st" which is where my mistake came from. The correct text (which you quoted) comes from the XPH. I think that's an error on Jans' part.

When I get a breather (I'm currently at work) I'll update the Psywar.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:05 AM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Rasman
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

I LITERALLY just bought this book and was wondering last night if they had changed/nerfed/buffed the Psionic classes or not. It's like you knew...you...knew...I'm watchin you...srsly...can't wait for you to update this more, especially since we have a Soulknife in our PF party right now and I'm sure he'll want to convert over to this stuff REAL soon
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:15 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Greenish
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
[*]Giant Blood - they now count as both Human and Giant, similar to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. Able Learner anyone?
What does Able Learner do in PF?
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Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
[*]Natural Sailors: Bonuses to Swim and Profession (Sailor) of all things (Why would a PC need that? Just hire a ferryman ) They can also move around on a ship deck more easily, with Climb and Acrobatics bonuses on boats. Random, but a buff's a buff.
At least in 3.5, Profession (Sailor) was one of the most useful professions for a PC (granted, still not a great investment). Otherwise, seems to fit their new seafarer image.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
[*]Their Burst is now a swift action to activate - a phenomenal buff. Fire it off and double move!
Wasn't it free action in 3.5?


Anyhow, really nice handbook, and I love what they've done to blues.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:27 AM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Ferrin
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

Whoa, really curious to see what they changed with wilders. Love the new psion goodies at least!

I don't mind the energy focus change so much, it's more flavorful this way. What about psionic feats though? That's matters almost as much as the classes themselves.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
FMArthur
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

This is almost too tangental to even talk about, but I'm curious about why Elans (formerly) being Aberrations made getting into Beholder Mage easier? I thought Aberration type's greatness was just about Alter Self shenanigans and immunity to spells whose names end in Person. PAO doesn't do anything beneficial for being the same type as the new form, and neither do Mind Switch or Metamorphosis.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:06 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
true_shinken
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

I was initially distrustful of the new Soulknife, but Psyren convinced me to look at it with different eyes and I must say it's awesome.

About xeph burst, as Greenish, I always thought it was a free action. I just checked the SRD, though, and it's a supernatural ability with no action listed, so it would be a standard action. It's weird, I always always thought it was a free action.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Dusk Eclipse
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Default Re: Pathfinder Psionics vs. XPH Psionics - A Handbook

I am looking with interest, at this one; I might not have converted to PF but if it buffs the Soul Knife (one of my favourite classes fluff-wise) then I need to see it.

And ophidians seems to be the kind of race I would like.
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