General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[Drascin]

Well, if you want my opinions...

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Mario - Solar. He's the main man, he's pretty much gotta be. Besides which, fire flower = Blazing Solar Bolt? Invincibility Star = Perfect defense with Valor flaw?

Yeah, pretty much. Has some pretty nifty Athletics stuff.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Luigi - Solar, low Valor score.

I'd say Lunar. He's much more given to the weird stuff (see his Final Smash, which basically a Deep Wyld Zone), plus Lunars are forever cursed to being second-bananas... just like Mr. L is.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Yoshi - Lunar?

Yoshis seem to be a race of very intelligent (and tenacious, and in fact really quite badass) animals. I say either ascended animals or beastmen of some kind, allies to Mario and his people.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Toads - We weren't sure whether the toads would be mortals, or if you would equate the Mushroom Kingdom to the Realm, and have the Toads be Terrestrials. If this is the case, then I'm really a bit hazy on where Peach fits in.

Even equating with the Realm, they're the Mortals anyway. Okay, maybe we could stretch the Toad Brigade as Terrestrials, but most are just mortals.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Princess Peach - The Scarlet Empress?!?! (Probably not, we just couldn't figure her out.)

...well, she IS top-tier in Melee...

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Rosalina (Galaxy) - Sidereal. No question here.

Yeah. Funny thing then, though, is that this means in the Marioverse it's the Sidereal the one that has the power to make the universe explode and call for a re-do, while the Solar just jumps around being a hero. Still, I imagine the Bureau would dance in little circles if they got their hands on the Observatory.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Goombas - Extras? Weak First Circle Demons?

Koopa troops - First circle demons, probably.

Boos - Spirits, ghosts.

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Bowser - Not sure with him, either. 3rd circle demon? Deathlord? Primordial?

Too alive and temperamental to be a +5 Ghost like Deathlords are, I'd say. I wouldn't know where to put him either. Funny thing is Bowser's record of successes is more impressive than most Deathlords, and he's still considered a joke villain

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Wario - Abyssal, probably.

Infernal by a mile. Not actually evil, just selfish, has freakish strength and is known to transform weirdly for powers.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Waluigi - Abyssal

WAAAAAAAA (that is how Waluigi shows approval)

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Geno (Legend of Seven Stars) - Sidereal

Well, he does have the star association, but his powers are more in the vein of GENO DESTROY than anything (he's kind of broken damagewise, really). Maybe he got some pretty broken Sidereal Martial Art on hand.

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

Haunted Mansions - Shadowlands

Could work.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Mario is a Zenith and Luigi is a Heretical Scourge. Yoshi is a Wyld-mutated intelligent claw strider.

Octavian Bowser is a Second Circle demon, and his minions are the First Circle demons he's created.

Toads are mortals, and Princess Peach can vary pretty wildly in between games. In some, she's a ronin, in others, she's barely more then an extra.

Boos are ghosts, yeah. Wario is a Slayer. Dunno about Walugi. Fawful is a Defiler with Solar circle sorcery.

Hm. This could be a fun campaign.

[Cyborg Mage]

If Peach is Her Redness, then that officially makes Daisy Mnemon. Although relatively equal (maybe) in fan following, Peach gets more appearances and is generally more prolific in the Mario series. Let's just ignore the whole genetics thing there. And another thing- Peach is constantly being kidnapped by (usually) Bowser, and was once nearly married to him. Ring a bell?

[Lix Lorn]

Bowser's too nice to be the ED.

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by Drascin

Too alive and temperamental to be a +5 Ghost like Deathlords are, I'd say. I wouldn't know where to put him either. Funny thing is Bowser's record of successes is more impressive than most Deathlords, and he's still considered a joke villain

Interesting thing; I was reading a set of author quotes, and one of them really caught my interest.

Spoilered here if you don't want to follow the link:

Spoiler

Lea Sheppard On Deathlords;
In lieu of typing up some long thing that boils down to "A lot of stupid crap has built up around the Deathlords since the 1e corebook, and you should ignore most of it," I'll just say a lot of stupid crap has built up around the Deathlords since the 1e corebook, and you should ignore most of it.
Yes, they can betray the Neverborn, because that's within the set of behaviors characters that occupy their niche in the setting should be able to engage in. If the rules say they can't, the rules were written wrong. The Deathlords are the thirteen dark scheming would-be rulers of a weird gothic fantasy setting that exists parallel to the normal mythic pulp fantasy setting of Creation.
(Underworld needs to be re-written so it's a weird gothic fantasy setting that exists parallel to the normal mythic pulp fantasy setting of Creation, consisting of all the non-modern stuff from Wraith and all the gothic fantasy tropes that don't quite fit perfectly into Creation proper.)
They're thirteen tragic, puissant, horrible rulers caught in the memory of their past glory. They should scheme and plot and fight to hold temporal power over the Underworld instead of doing the job the Neverborn set them to do, which was doom the world. They should actually be bad at, and disinterested in, their assigned task. If you read their writeups in the 1e Abyssals book, it's clear they were. The Lion and the Princess moped; the Eye and the Lover ****ed around; and Dowager and the Bishop pursued insane, doomed schemes; the Mask blew his wad early and tipped the setting off to the Deathlords' existence; the Walker did something generically mysterious; and the Bodhissatva actually ran a nation for PCs to run around in and have Underworld-themed adventures. Not a single one of them looked like an actual credible threat to the setting, unless you, the ST, wanted to single one out as the center of your campaign's plot. All the rest of them do is waste resources in order to exercise temporal power over the Underworld, in pathetic attempts to recapture the glory of their past.
(Deathlords need to be restatted so they need to waste huge resources in order to exercise temporal power over the Underworld instead of just each being able to solo the whole thing like they can right now.)
Clearly this is not what the Neverborn want them to do.
If Resonance ****s this up, then maybe they shouldn't be statted as uber-Abyssals with a Resonance track. Just make 'em powerful ghosts with a bunch of custom Arcanoi.
(Arcanoi need to be re-written from the ground up.)
…
What I am advocating here is a back-to-basics approach to the way the setting works — first you figure out what role a given NPC was clearly written to fill in the narrative tapestry of the game, and then you figure out how best to represent that through setting elements. The Deathlords have been grossly mishandled, rendered basically unable to fulfill the purpose they were inserted into the setting to fulfill. It doesn't matter whether Essence 10 + a Resonance track dictates they can or can't do X. That's putting the cart before the horse.

If we're following that vision, he does make a relatively good deathlord. Still, I think some sort of Infernal/Demon works better.

[golentan]

He does fit exceedingly well as the Quarter Prince, on many levels.

I do also prefer the deathlords in their original "fail-servant" form. It makes more sense as to why the Abyssals were such a big thing for the neverborn, and why a millennium's gone by with relatively minimal efforts on their part. Great Contagion excepted, naturally.

[Tavar]

Right. My idea(based on that article) right now puts them on the level of Terrestials/Sidereals, but only in the Underworld, and in comparison to other ghosts. Yes, they're more powerful than pretty much any given ghost, but as they learned in the Usurption, quantity has a quality all it's own.

This is also why an Abyssal can tell them to STFU without being insta-gibbed; currently, they're about equivalent in power. The only problem is that Deathlords are at the Zenith of their power, while Abyssals still have a lot of room to grow. Heck, none of them have even broken Essence 6 yet.

Also fits with the idea that the Deathlords are training their replacements, though they don't realize it.

[Cyborg Mage]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Bowser's too nice to be the ED.

But the marrige would still end the world.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Wait, the Deathlords aren't fail-servants in their 2nd edition form?

They're built up as badasses, sure, but if you actually read between the lines, they kind of suck at the job the Neverborn hired them for. There's literally one out of nine that's not ******* around with his own plots instead of getting on with destroying the world, and even that one's not doing that great a job at it.

I like the Deathlords where they are, personally. Not to mention that if they're any weaker then they are, there's kind of the problem of why the Siddies didn't just pop in and gank them the second they learned about them. Or why the numerically superior Abyssals didn't say "screw this" and gank them. Or why Thorns is still in the Mask of Winter's hands.

[randomhero00]

I like to implement my own conversion of deathlords (DLs). They are mysterious in their motives and you better watch the frak out if they notice you. Basically a lot of intrigue, and the players never know the final truth. Its how they were meant to be IMO.

[Tavar]

They're outside of Fate, and the Siddies historically have dismissed outside of fate things as a threat(see...Dragon kings warning the Sids about the Great Contagion, and the Sids ignoring it.) Plus, before that, why worry? They're ghosts, only concerned with taking over the underworld. No need to worry, and if they ever actually seem to be close to accomplishing their goal, the Sid's can go an gank them. Until then, not worth the trouble.

Then the Great Contagion hit, and the Sid's went into complete damage control mode(plus, do they even know where it's from?). They're too bust now to deal with the underworld. It's like a doctor treating the symptoms, which happen to be internal hemoraging, organs shutting down, and the patient keeps stopping to breathe, but leaving the cause untreated, because they don't have the time to look up what the cause is.

Finally, the Abyssals have only been around for, what, 5 years? They haven't yet told the Deathlords to STFU because they aren't sure of themselves yet, plus the fact that, at the moment, the Deathlords are in a position of power. They have established resources, which they use to keep the Abyssals under their thumbs, plus they play politics, keeping them fractured from uniting against them. Oh, and they do have the Monstrances, which is a big plus in their favor for now. And it's not like being exalted automatically makes you the top dog- there's one Solar exalted who's subservient to a god, even though he could easily break free.

[Guancyto]

Originally Posted by Tavar

(plus, do they even know where it's from?)

The Sidereals book mentions that the Convention on Udr has, like, two people who have the foggiest inkling that some location out in the East might have been responsible for it (and the name, "Well of Udr"). And even that information has come to them very recently. And is kept very secret by those two people and Ketchup Carjack. Nobody knows where it came from.

Also that the Convention on Deathlords wasn't much to look at before Thorns or the arrival of the Abyssals, as opposed to right now where the majority of the Five-Score Fellowship are numbered in its rolls. They just weren't a big deal to the Siddies before now, and now it's much too late for Deathlord-shanking.

[Drascin]

By the way, since we're talking about videogames and Exalted... since I have been playing Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, I have been giving some thought to the idea of getting a bit of MonHun into Exalted. It's a hard fit, though - having weapons made from normal steel plus monster pieces instead of the five magical materials, or the fact that we don't really have much in the way of decent behemoth examples to use as example for building the monsters, or specially the fact that Mortals in Exalted Just Lose (tm), and hunters are very much mortal (in fact, Exalting them would be kind of point-defeating), so it'd be kind of doomed, I guess...

[Dragnar]

Hmm... Heroic mortals, wielding special weapons made from the bodies of dead behemoths... it could work. Trick is, you would need an exalt to enchant the weapons with some form of sorcery to give the mortals a chance. Perhaps something to make the weapon better at killing the class of being it was made from, and armor that boosts DVs against the same... Also: all the monsters have very small accuracy pools.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Wait, the Deathlords aren't fail-servants in their 2nd edition form?

I think that quote is trying to express that there is a disconnect between the fluff, the reality, and mechanics of the situation.

Fluff-wise, the Deathlords are badasses. They're ancient God-Kings turned undead Lich-Kings, with vast armies and nigh-infinite resources, the backing of immortal, cosmically powerful (if limited) entities, ludicrous personal strength and unfathomably potent intellects.

Mechanically, this is backed up. They're Essence 10 super-ghosts, and super-Solars, and super-Abyssals, with crazy ridiculous Necromancy, and only mildly-ridiculous Sorcery, with some unique charms and abilities thrown in. Sure, some of them can't read, but no one's perfect.

In reality, however, they're fail-servants.

And I think they're just saying this needs to be evened up a little.

Personally, however, I've just chocked up their worthlessness to the Immortality-Time-Perception problem, which I wish had been something that had a bigger effect on the events leading up to the Usurpation, but whatever.

Basically, as you get older, your perception of time elongates. To a 6 year old, 5 minutes genuinely feels longer than it does to an 80 year old - its not them just be impatient, belligerent children. You may have noticed an old person sit for a whole day thinking and doing nothing else. It's not just because they're boring - it's because a day might only feel like a few hours to them. For an immortal person, this would continue. The Deathlords were already ancient when they died; at least over a millennia, and probably far older. Its been thousands of years since then, and so, to them, when they cook up a crazy plan and then decide to spend a night to "sleep on it", just to make sure, it may take hundreds of years.

Why don't the Neverborn slap them and tell them to get back to work? Well, the problem is going to be even worse for them. The Deathlords are thousands of years old, but they're hot-blooded whippersnappers to the Neverborn. It only takes you 800 years to settle on an idea? Holy crap, you guys are on the ball.

This would let them have their nigh-omnipotent power and crazy intelligence, without them having just taken over the world yet, but without portraying them as incompetent. It makes Abyssals even more attractive to the Neverborn, as their 20-30 year old drive is like moving in super-fast-forward as far as the Neverborn can tell (if you're reasonably non-young, and have seen an elementary-age child just explode in a whirlwind of activity, which made you suddenly feel very tired, then just imagine that times a billion).

[The Rose Dragon]

Originally Posted by Xefas

Why don't the Neverborn slap them and tell them to get back to work? Well, the problem is going to be even worse for them. The Deathlords are thousands of years old, but they're hot-blooded whippersnappers to the Neverborn. It only takes you 800 years to settle on an idea? Holy crap, you guys are on the ball.

The Neverborn don't do that because the Neverborn are dead, dreaming and insane. They don't really have any "conscious" thoughts other than "must destroy Creation and fall into the Abyss NOW!" and "holy hell I am in a lot of torment why must this be so?". The Deathlords and Abyssals only hear Whispers, which are their dreams, not their thoughts. If they could directly access their thoughts instead of their dreams, the background would be pretty boring.

At least, as far as I understand the Neverborn. They cannot really act, just react to the actions of others.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon

At least, as far as I understand the Neverborn. They cannot really act, just react to the actions of others.

As I understand it, five of the Neverborn got woken up, and now they occasionally do things. Is this not correct?

[Kyeudo]

Originally Posted by Xefas

As I understand it, five of the Neverborn got woken up, and now they occasionally do things. Is this not correct?

They occassionally talk telepathically with things near-by in a semi-coherent fashion. Also, they can torture Deathlords like they did to Falafel.

[The Rose Dragon]

Originally Posted by Xefas

As I understand it, five of the Neverborn got woken up, and now they occasionally do things. Is this not correct?

They did not "wake up". Their tombs were opened, so their dreams can leave their bodies and find their way across the Underworld. That is how they recruited the Deathlords, after all.

[Xefas]

Alright, then let me mend the offending statement.

Originally Posted by Xefas

Why don't the dreams of the unconscious Neverborn slap them, metaphorically of course, in the same way they inflicted torment on the First and Forsaken Lion, and tell them to get back to work? Well, the problem is going to be even worse for them. The Deathlords are thousands of years old, but they're hot-blooded whippersnappers to the dreams of the unconscious Neverborn. It only takes you 800 years to settle on an idea? Holy crap, you guys are on the ball.

EDIT: Parallel discussion: Does anyone think it's too freaking difficult for Solars to fly? They get Eagle Wing Style, which is Ath 5, Ess 4, with three prerequisites that are rendered mostly useless once you actually get Eagle Wing Style. It's 4m,1wp, scene long, has an arbitrary distance-from-ground cap, and prohibits the use of two-handed weapons.

It's actually just cheaper and better in every way to get it via mutations (which would be 18xp, so only slightly more than 2 charms). Should Solar charms really be worse than the mutations available to mortals and Godbloods and stuff?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Xefas

Should Solar charms really be worse than the mutations available to mortals and Godbloods and stuff?

Possibly. Solar Charms are mostly based around taking mundane skills over the top. Hence why a Charm that lets you run on the air itself is a higher Essence charm. There are things Solar charms don't encompass, or can be gotten elsewhere.

Taking a mutation, though, has some very nasty downsides. How you get it, the social stigma of carrying an abomination-level mutation, and if you're a Wyld mutant, some incredibly nasty side effects.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Possibly. Solar Charms are mostly based around taking mundane skills over the top. Hence why a Charm that lets you run on the air itself is a higher Essence charm. There are things Solar charms don't encompass, or can be gotten elsewhere.

Taking a mutation, though, has some very nasty downsides. How you get it, the social stigma of carrying an abomination-level mutation, and if you're a Wyld mutant, some incredibly nasty side effects.

I didn't mean "mutation" as in "the set piece within the game world that designates you as a mutant that can fly", but rather "the mechanical item that costs 6 bonus points and gives you flight". I should've been more clear. I make this distinction because I don't think the "social stigma" was taken into account for balance purposes as far as mutations go.

I also realize that Solar Charms can't do everything. But I think flight should be one of the things they can do. As far as the thematic of "mundane skills over the top", I think "Jump" -> "Fly" is a smaller leap than "Accurate At Shooting Things" -> "Banishing Stuff to Another Plane of Existence".

[Tavar]

What are peoples opinions on Crystal Chameleon Style(glories of the most high)?

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Tavar

What are peoples opinions on Crystal Chameleon Style(glories of the most high)?

Well, it has a perfect dodge that costs less than Duck Fate, so it's pretty good for Sidereals. (EDIT: And, of course, martial arts with perfect defenses are always good for Terrestrials if they can find a Bronze Faction tutor)

Overall, I like the proper nouns. Razor-Edged Prism Assault runs a little long, I feel, but Death from Nowhere Method definitely makes up for it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Xefas

I didn't mean "mutation" as in "the set piece within the game world that designates you as a mutant that can fly", but rather "the mechanical item that costs 6 bonus points and gives you flight". I should've been more clear. I make this distinction because I don't think the "social stigma" was taken into account for balance purposes as far as mutations go.

The two are intertwined. You can't take a mutation without explaining where it came from, and all of the ways you could gain that mutation from a non-innate source have some serious drawbacks.

And if you're a -blooded, well, that's one of the tricks you can pull.

I also realize that Solar Charms can't do everything. But I think flight should be one of the things they can do.

And they can do it. Just at Essence 4.

Besides that, correct me if I'm wrong, but this sort of feels like you're thinking in D&D terms. Personal flight is rare in Exalted. Most ways of flying require sorcery or magitech, and almost all of those ways require a ship of some sort. Being able to fly without any sort of aid has always been a pretty high Essence effect in Exalted.

"Accurate At Shooting Things" -> "Banishing Stuff to Another Plane of Existence".

Where is that from?

Originally Posted by Tavar

What are peoples opinions on Crystal Chameleon Style(glories of the most high)?

Personal feelings? It's awesome.

Balance? No idea.

[Jokasti]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

And if you're a -blooded, well, that's one of the tricks you can pull.

Dragonblooded can do it? Coolio.

[Tavar]

I think he's thinking of...not summon the loyal bow, but the one that can put/draw weapons from elsewhere.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

The two are intertwined. You can't take a mutation without explaining where it came from, and all of the ways you could gain that mutation from a non-innate source have some serious drawbacks.

And if you're a -blooded, well, that's one of the tricks you can pull.

Alright, well, ponder this. I want to be able to fly. Athletics seems like the most direct route, but instead I take Medicine. I get a Medicine Excellency, Wound-Mending Care Technique, and Science of Mutation. Three charms, Medicine 5, Essence 4 minimum - fewer prerequisites than Eagle Wing. Now, not only can I stick wings on myself, so I can fly without all the restrictions given by Eagle Wing Style, permanently and with no cost, but I can also do so much else, not just with that charm itself, but with the two prerequisites compared to the three prerequisite for Eagle Wing Style which are rendered mostly redundant.

Yes, now I have wings. That's kind of conspicuous, but so is being able to fly without wings. I can always say that the God of Things That Can Fly gave them to me. Whose going to argue? The mortals that I'm saving? Probably only the people who were going to find an excuse to call Anathema on me in the first place.

So Medicine is actually better than Athletics at doing athletic things. I don't think this should be so.

Besides that, correct me if I'm wrong, but this sort of feels like you're thinking in D&D terms. Personal flight is rare in Exalted. Most ways of flying require sorcery or magitech, and almost all of those ways require a ship of some sort. Being able to fly without any sort of aid has always been a pretty high Essence effect in Exalted.

I'm just going to ignore that grave personal insult, and move on. I absolutely agree that personal flight should be rare in Exalted. In fact, I think it should only be less-than-terribly-difficult for a few hundred people in the entire world. I'd go so far as to say only the most powerful entities in the entire universe should be able to pull it off with relative ease.

Where is that from?

Summoning the Loyal Bow. Somehow being trained in how to aim also allows you to take a bit of wood and blast it into an alternate dimension, and then suck it back through the tapestry of the world at your leisure. The connection is tenuous at best.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Jokasti

Dragonblooded can do it? Coolio.

You know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Xefas

Alright, well, ponder this. I want to be able to fly. Athletics seems like the most direct route, but instead I take Medicine. I get a Medicine Excellency, Wound-Mending Care Technique, and Science of Mutation. Three charms, Medicine 5, Essence 4 minimum - fewer prerequisites than Eagle Wing. Now, not only can I stick wings on myself, so I can fly without all the restrictions given by Eagle Wing Style, permanently and with no cost, but I can also do so much else, not just with that charm itself, but with the two prerequisites compared to the three prerequisite for Eagle Wing Style which are rendered mostly redundant.

Sure, you can do that. It does something similar to Eagle-Wing Style, but it has it's own drawbacks, just like Eagle-Wing Style has it's drawbacks.

You severely underestimate just how much of a disadvantage it is to have mutations, which you have to look at in a setting as established as it is in Exalted. You dismiss social stigma, which is in fact going to cripple you unless you're constantly socially-persuading people, which is not really a viable option. People in Creation are people, and they are heavily prejudiced against mutants. They're also not stupid. They're not going to believe a line about being blessed by a non-existant god. Unless you're using social-fu. Which has it's own problems.

There's also reason that the Solars rely on internal techniques, or have abilities that allow them to always have their external aids at hand. A fight against anyone with the capability to harm you is going to see your wings being targeted.

Probably only the people who were going to find an excuse to call Anathema on me in the first place.

Yeeees? And now they're going to spot you without even trying. Whereas your average Solar who doesn't have a active anima could walk up to a member of the Wyld Hunt who isn't using his Charms and have a pleasant conversation. Painting a huge target on yourself for people that want you dead and are capable carrying that out is not a good thing in any way shape or form.

So Medicine is actually better than Athletics at doing athletic things. I don't think this should be so.

It can reach the same goal by doing something else entirely, with it's own drawbacks. That's not a bad thing.

I'm just going to ignore that grave personal insult, and move on.

I'm guessing you're joking here, but that's what sprung to my mind immediately.

I'd go so far as to say only the most powerful entities in the entire universe should be able to pull it off with relative ease.

It's a good thing the Primordials, Third Circle souls, Essence 10 Exalts, Deathlords, and Incarnae can pull it off then.

A starting Solar is astronomically far from being anywhere near the top. They have the potential to get there, but that's a long way away.

Summoning the Loyal Bow. Somehow being trained in how to aim also allows you to take a bit of wood and blast it into an alternate dimension, and then suck it back through the tapestry of the world at your leisure. The connection is tenuous at best.

It fits within the thematics of the Solar Exalted, which is really what you should be considering when you look at a Charm.

They are peerless archers. And an archer is never without his bow. A Solar never need find himself defenseless from chance or malice, for he can will it and his weapon will appear at his hand.

Of course, you're also wrong. It follows Essence Arrow Attack and Phantom Arrow Technique, two of the more obviously supernatural Charms in the Archery tree.

[WalkingTarget]

Originally Posted by Xefas

Alright, well, ponder this. I want to be able to fly. Athletics seems like the most direct route, but instead I take Medicine. I get a Medicine Excellency, Wound-Mending Care Technique, and Science of Mutation. Three charms, Medicine 5, Essence 4 minimum - fewer prerequisites than Eagle Wing. Now, not only can I stick wings on myself, so I can fly without all the restrictions given by Eagle Wing Style, permanently and with no cost, but I can also do so much else, not just with that charm itself, but with the two prerequisites compared to the three prerequisite for Eagle Wing Style which are rendered mostly redundant.

Yes, now I have wings. That's kind of conspicuous, but so is being able to fly without wings. I can always say that the God of Things That Can Fly gave them to me. Whose going to argue? The mortals that I'm saving? Probably only the people who were going to find an excuse to call Anathema on me in the first place.

So Medicine is actually better than Athletics at doing athletic things. I don't think this should be so.

Or you could take one of a few 3 dot Artifacts (and some craft/lore/etc. to repair them - or take 4/5 dot versions that don't require maintenance). That'll do it too. Edit - Hell, the Belt of Aerial Mobility has a repair rating (of 1, only Lore 3 and resources 2 necessary for one-hour repairs at 2 success difficulty) but doesn't actually list how often repairs are needed. The entry even says that it's still possible to make these things.

I'm just going to ignore that grave personal insult, and move on. I absolutely agree that personal flight should be rare in Exalted. In fact, I think it should only be less-than-terribly-difficult for a few hundred people in the entire world. I'd go so far as to say only the most powerful entities in the entire universe should be able to pull it off with relative ease.

My personal... idiom for thinking about Solar charms is to think of what a human-ish being could do, but crank it up. There's very little that a person can do that is anything like unaided flight, so the "standard" approach was to build a flying machine, like they did in the First Age. The charm works (fluff-wise) by repelling the ground with Essence itself. That implies to me a certain refinement of Essence is necessary. Maybe dropping the requirement to 3 would help (or having something new but more limited after, say, Racing Hare Method or the others that involves literally running on air), but I'm not really a mechanics/balance guy.

Summoning the Loyal Bow. Somehow being trained in how to aim also allows you to take a bit of wood and blast it into an alternate dimension, and then suck it back through the tapestry of the world at your leisure. The connection is tenuous at best.

I always dropped this (and it's related melee weapon and armor variants) into the "we want to allow our characters to have super-cool, over-the-top weapons but not require them to be displayed as a giant Anathema Over Here flag all the time" category - might not make perfect sense, but added as an aid to the undercover position of Solars in the setting time period. There are other uses for the charms, sure, but the meta-game reason is how I justify them.