General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[Cyborg Mage]

Remember that Mario-Exalted post a while ago? Well now I need to make a Sonic-based version to balance the videogaming universe. Observe!

Sonic: Either Night Caste, with lots of Athletics and Dodge charms, or Scourge caste GSP. Last one very unlikely.

Tails: Fox totem No Moon Lunar? Achieves the two-tailed helicopter effect through some form of charm or, more simply, his tail?

Knuckles- Either Fire Aspect or Dawn caste martial artist. With a high-point Obligation, Oath or Ward to the Master Emerald.

Eggman: Defiler caste with loads of Craft ('Specially Magitek) and a few War/Hellstriders.

Metal Sonic: Apostate Alchemical?

Shadow: Abyssal. With some kinda Shaping homebrew charm(s) for Chaos Control.

Chaos Emeralds: N/A Hearthstones? Specialized Artifacts?

Chaos: Some kind of crazy Water Elemental or Spirit of some sort.

Rouge: Bat totem Changing Moon?

Vector: Dragon King.

Mephiles: Some Yozi's Fetich Soul?

Iblis: Mephiles' Defining Soul? (I'll admit, I have no idea how exactly that whole naming convention works)

I may come up with others later. For now, just look over these. (If I've left out anyone important-and I have- it's because I can't think of anything for them.)

[SurlySeraph]

Originally Posted by DragonSinged

In addition, she took high Martial Arts (her character has 5 dots), thinking I guess that Martial Arts charms would be about as simple to take as, say, Melee charms. Now we've got access to most of the books, but a lot of us don't know much about things like the various martial arts and whatnot, and so she asked me to see if you guys might be able to suggest a decently balanced martial art style with fluff that might fit her character, at least somewhat. I had seen someone mentioning "Sapphire Veil of Passion" or whatever a couple pages back, and we looked at that, but the fluff on it really doesn't fit her character at all. That's not a huge deal, of course, but we thought we'd see if you guys had any suggestions.
EDIT:
The weapons she is using by the way, are some sort of artifact gauntlet with retractable claws, and the middle claw on each gauntlet is also a projectile on a chain? If you guys need more details than that, I can find out the name of the gauntlets or any other details that would help when I talk to her tomorrow.

Gauntlets of Distant Claws, yeah. She'll want a martial art that lets you use Tiger Claws as a form weapon, then. For that, the options that work best fluff-wise are probably Solar Hero Style, Water Dragon Style, and Tiger Style. All of those are fairly effective and fairly balanced. I'd probably go with Solar Hero so that you won't have to get another book, and because it allows armor. Tiger Style might be better if she's focused on stealth, and Water Dragon has more defensive abilities, but it's hard to go wrong with Solar Hero.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Cyborg Mage

Sonic: Either Night Caste, with lots of Athletics and Dodge charms, or Scourge caste GSP. Last one very unlikely.

If you're not going for "Anthropomorphic Animals Are Just a Racial Option In My Setting", then I like Lunar Akuma with a Hedgehog Spirit Animal and Adorjan as the patron. His Urge could be something like "Ensure my own freedom at all costs" or something. It both fits in the Adorjani urge, sounds like something Adorjan would give an Akuma, and gives him plenty of leeway to be a hero.

I dunno what Lunars get in the way of speed-boosting charms, but you can always just pick up the Adorjan ones.

Originally Posted by Cyborg Mage

Eggman: Defiler caste with loads of Craft ('Specially Magitek) and a few War/Hellstriders.

And I think Eggman works better as a Solar. Not only are they better at Craft, and not only are his machines decidedly not Evas, but if I recall, he's always portrayed in a leadership position. Even if he has, say, the Deliberate Cruelty Virtue Flaw, he still seems to be a competent enough dictator that no one has revolted yet.

[Sanguine]

Originally Posted by Cyborg Mage

Tails: Fox totem No Moon Lunar? Achieves the two-tailed helicopter effect through some form of charm or, more simply, his tail?

Obviously his flight is acheived via the Wings mutation, which he acquired before getting his Caste fixed.

Chaos: Some kind of crazy Water Elemental or Spirit of some sort.

Daana'd.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Sanguine

Obviously his flight is acheived via the Wings mutation, which he acquired before getting his Caste fixed.

This makes a certain amount of sense.

Sonic: "OH GOD, why do you have two tails?!"
Tails: "I'm a horrible mutant warped by the unknowable chaos beyond thought and space."
Sonic: "Oh. That's fine. I sold my soul to a demonic horror beyond the shores of this mortal world."
Tails: "You wanna be friends?"
Sonic: "Oh boy, would I!"

[tonberrian]

Chaos is a Greater Elemental Dragon, full stop. That fits both the fluff and the crunch perfectly.

Edit: Perfect Chaos, that is. Chaos definitely works as a more normal elemental who's Essence rating is relative to the number of Chaos Emeralds he has.

[Reynard]

Anybody here know of a good 4-dot thrown weapon?

I'm looking for homebrew, since I know there's nothing in the books.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Reynard

Anybody here know of a good 4-dot thrown weapon?

I'm looking for homebrew, since I know there's nothing in the books.

Hmmm...I kinda wanna homebrew a magical-material-plated tavern that functions as a 4-dot thrown weapon. All 4+ dot artifacts should really have powers other than just pure stats, so I think "You can set it down and it now functions as a tavern, complete with automaton barkeep who is programmed to continuously wipe the same filthy mug with the same filthy rag for all time, whenever not performing other duties" would qualify.

Thoughts?

EDIT: The barkeep also glares at you suspiciously all the time, and synthesizes especially filthy saliva to clean that filthy mug with. And perhaps there'll be a cloaked automaton stranger in the corner with an interdimensional link that allows it to be possessed, long-distance, by any Gods, Demons, or otherwise that fancy doing so. Every time you come in, it has some sort of mysterious quest.

[The_Snark]

Originally Posted by Reynard

Anybody here know of a good 4-dot thrown weapon?

I'm looking for homebrew, since I know there's nothing in the books.

The Demented One made these a while back. I've never gotten to try one out, so I'm not sure if they're worth the price (heft commitment, 4-dot artifact, 3-dot manse), but they look pretty nifty.

[Urpriest]

Originally Posted by Xefas

Hmmm...I kinda wanna homebrew a magical-material-plated tavern that functions as a 4-dot thrown weapon. All 4+ dot artifacts should really have powers other than just pure stats, so I think "You can set it down and it now functions as a tavern, complete with automaton barkeep who is programmed to continuously wipe the same filthy mug with the same filthy rag for all time, whenever not performing other duties" would qualify.

Thoughts?

EDIT: The barkeep also glares at you suspiciously all the time, and synthesizes especially filthy saliva to clean that filthy mug with. And perhaps there'll be a cloaked automaton stranger in the corner with an interdimensional link that allows it to be possessed, long-distance, by any Gods, Demons, or otherwise that fancy doing so. Every time you come in, it has some sort of mysterious quest.

Recently I've been thinking about a character who's a Yeddim-Lunar barkeep. Then I started thinking about the ridiculous Lunar throwing combos described earlier in this thread. Now this. This combination is made of win.

[Tavar]

Hmm. Before the War, Primordials were able to manipulate time, right?

Looking up info on the time of cascading years, I found the following;

Quote:
Morpheus:Creation is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see? Dragon-blooded, spirits, elementals and mortals. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be know we exist. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me Neo, or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

Neo: I was...

Morpheus:Look again. Freeze it.

Neo: This...this isn't Creation?

Morpheus:No. It's another training charm designed to teach you one thing. If you are not one of us, you are one of them.

Neo:What are they?

Morpheus:Sidereals. They can move in and out of any part of Creation. That means that anyone we haven't accredited is potentially a Sidereal. Inside Creation, they are everyone and they are no one. We have survived by hiding from them, by running from them. But they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors. They are holding all the keys, which means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them.

Neo: Someone?

Morpheus:I won't lie to you, Neo. Every single Lunar or Dragon-blooded who has stood their ground, everyone who has fought a Sidereal has died. But where they have failed, you will succeed.

Neo: Why?

Morpheus:I've seen Sidereals punch through a starmetal wall. Legions have emptied entire quivers at them and hit nothing but air. Yet their strength and their speed are still based in a world that is built on fate. Because of that, they will never be as strong or as fast as you can be.

Neo: What are you trying to tell me, that I can dodge arrows?

Morpheus:No Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

[Xefas]

Originally Posted by Urpriest

Recently I've been thinking about a character who's a Yeddim-Lunar barkeep. Then I started thinking about the ridiculous Lunar throwing combos described earlier in this book. Now this. This combination is made of win.

You mean in the "Step out of your own tavern, and then use it as a bludgeoning weapon" sort of way?

Oh man, magically gyroscopic stabilization on the interior space! Makes it so that no matter what movement occurs on the outside, if the door is closed, the inside, as far as the occupants perceive, doesn't move.

You could wield your tavern while serving customers.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Tavar

Hmm. Before the War, Primordials were able to manipulate time, right?

Looking up info on the time of cascading years, I found the following;

Also epic.

[Urpriest]

Originally Posted by Xefas

You mean in the "Step out of your own tavern, and then use it as a bludgeoning weapon" sort of way?

Oh man, magically gyroscopic stabilization on the interior space! Makes it so that no matter what movement occurs on the outside, if the door is closed, the inside, as far as the occupants perceive, doesn't move.

You could wield your tavern while serving customers.

Exactly. HOW DARE YOU DISTURB MY GUESTS?! (Flings tavern)

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Weimann

*eye-twitch, points at sig*

A cannon isn't a fire weapon.

Does anybody have any idea where the blog is on the new White Wolf site? I really want to get at the Ink Monkey stuff that's not on the wiki, but I can't figure out if it's up yet.

[Sanguine]

Ok I've got a question and my google-fu has failed me.

Does a Raksha with an Essence rating above 5 raise his Attribute and Ability caps, or do they stay the same regardless of Essence Rating?

[Tavar]

So. Cobra Style. It's supposedly extremely powerful, maybe even too powerful. Why?

[Kris Strife]

Originally Posted by Tavar

So. Cobra Style. It's supposedly extremely powerful, maybe even too powerful. Why?

Because Creation doesn't have GI Joe.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by Kris Strife

Because Creation doesn't have GI Joe.

...
Go sit in the corner.

[Jokasti]

Originally Posted by Tavar

So. Cobra Style. It's supposedly extremely powerful, maybe even too powerful. Why?

IIRC, it's the form charm.
Showing the Cobra's Fangs is also OP, I think.

[Kyeudo]

Anyone watch Shakugan no Shana? The show has some very close correlations to Exalted. You have Flame Haze, who are empowered by beings of god-like power to act for them where they can't (can you say Exalts?), Tomogara devour the existances of humans for sustanance and to fuel their strange powers (Fair Folk anyone?), and ordinary people can't do jack. There's battle auras, artifacts of power, even a case where you can see attunement in action.

[golentan]

I linked to a shakugan fight when we were doing exalted battle videos.

Margery Daw is even a good example of a sorcery focused lunar.

[Tavar]

Regarding Showing the Cobra's Fangs, the weapons don't seem that much better than most other weapons. Plus the fact that I think you could make an argument that you still need to ready the weapons like normal, and I'm not too bothered by it.

As for the form charm... seems to me that it gives some nice bonuses, but nothing out of line, especially considering the limits it places on your action usage. Unless I'm really missing something.

Again, I'm not questioning that some people think it's overpowered. But why is it overpowered.

For those who are interested, here are the charms.

Spoiler

Showing the Cobra’s Fangs

Cost: —; Mins: Martial Arts 2, Essence 2; Type: Permanent

Keywords: None

Duration: Permanent

Prerequisite Charms: None

The Cobra stylist forms his hands into the famous fangs for which this style is known. Bending and poising his fingers into perfect receptacles for his killing Essence, his “hand fang” strike gains the following stats: Speed 5, Accuracy +3, Damage +5L, Defense +2, Rate 1, Tags: N. A character using this attack adds one automatic success to all Martial Arts attacks which seek to Poison the target. The Cobra’s Fangs share Rate with the martial artist’s punch attack; so, since a punch is Rate 3, the character could punch twice and fang strike once in a single flurry. The Cobra’s Fangs are considered an unarmed attack for the purpose of Cobra style Charms, or for any Martial Arts Charm with the Poison Keyword, but are not compatible with any other Charms of any other style.

When the character has learned the Charm Marked by Eternity, his fangs are further enhanced: they now do 8L Damage, have a Defense of +3, and add two automatic successes to Poison-inflicting Martial Arts attacks.


Cobra Form

Cost: 5m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 2; Type: Simple

Keywords: Combo-basic, Form-type

Duration: One scene

Prerequisite Charms: Cobra-Eye Splendor, King Cobra Strikes

The martial artist rises up, body coiled to move, hands steady. While in Cobra Form, the martial artist’s Cobra Fang attacks gain Rate 2. He may fight while prone without suffering any penalties, and may reflexively regain his feet at will without being considered to have taken a rise from prone action. Any Poison-keyword Martial Arts Charms the character uses are reduced in price by one mote, to a minimum of one mote, and their Toxicity increases by 2.

Finally, any unexpected attacks the martial artist makes ignore soak altogether.

The first time a Charm with a Flaw of Invulnerability is used during the same action Cobra Form is activated, it adds a two Willpower surcharge to its activation cost.

Additionally, the Cobra stylist enjoys the following benefits, if applicable:

• The Cobra stylist may invoke Snake Strikes the Heel (see Exalted, p. 241), Feather-Stirred Arrow Deflection (see Glories of the Most High, p. 103), and Flexing the Emerald Claw (see Ink Monkeys, vol. 10) as innate powers, if he knows any of those Charms. If activated in this manner, those Charms reduce their activation cost by one mote.

• If the character has an Overdrive pool, he adds one mote to that pool on every damage interval for poisons he has inflicted on anyone in the scene, including himself. This mote benefit stacks by the number of poisons on a single target, as well as poisons across multiple targets, but may not exceed five motes per action. Poisoned targets must be within 20 yards of the Martial Artist for him to benefit from this effect.

[Teln]

About Cobra Form:

...Finally, any unexpected attacks the martial artist makes ignore soak altogether.

I wouldn't allow that in a Sidereal style without some serious caveats. With unexpected attacks, both the target's DVs are already at zero. Making unexpected attacks unsoakable is just plain overkill, because the only way a target could reasonably expect to survive is by activating a paranoia combo.

Showing the Cobra's Fangs should be post-Form, and require Essence 3, maybe 4.

[tonberrian]

I thought the main problem with Cobra style was the perfect dodges (that you could stockpile?). That's what I heard, though, as I've never spent the time to look at the thing.

[SurlySeraph]

Mostly the form.
1. Unexpected attacks are killy enough without completely ignoring soak. A supplemental charm that let you ignore soak on an expected attack and had to pay for each time you used it would be fair (maybe not fair at Essence 2, but fair as something that exists), but as-is you can just keep trying to reestablish surprise and rip your opponent's face off until you succeed.
2. It appears to add a 2wp surcharge to any perfect defense that's activated on the same action that the form is. It would take careful timing to use this abusively, but why is it there at all?
3. Getting your choice of three decently useful charms from other styles as innate powers for reduced cost. It's not completely ridiculous since you actually have to know them, but it's certainly questionable.
4. If there are a bunch of weak poisonable things around, your Overdrive pool will go up real fast.
5. It's really easy to enter without actually needing a Charm activation. Why is that necessary? Also, this may work with part 2 and let you retroactively add 2 wp to the activation cost of a Perfect Defense your opponent used. Again, why?

False Crane Posture isn't totally ridiculous, and it's nice that it encourages you to take risks, but being able to get eight free reflexive perfect dodges if there are some useless minor foes around to swing and miss at you is a pretty sweet deal.

It's just a bit weird and disjointed overall.
Dread Scale Fascination gives you what, 9 extra health levels, because your anima is... scaly? That's pretty odd for a style that started off being about poison and counterattacks. Oh, and fear.
Actually, where did the fear part come from? That's not in Snake Style or in Crane Style, it wasn't really in the fluff, and I'd think that something like "You can choke people by staring at them because you're just that scary" is a) quite thematic for something called Cobra Style, and b) should have been hinted at in the introduction.
Death-Dreaming Flux has nice synergy with other things in the style, but the explanation is bizarre and unclear until you figure out that it just lets you make a counterattack without having been attacked.
The Form seems like they just threw in every idea they couldn't find a place for.
And the whole style points thing - argh! It looks like it's supposed to be an entire and fairly complex mechanic, so then why is it limited to a single Charm of an obscure school?

[Tavar]

Huh. I though it added a 2 willpower surcharge to your activations. And, worse for those charms, you have to know several other charms from the styles. That's a lot of charms to sink into side stuff.

But a lot of your points are good. Might have to do a bit of nerfing on the style.

[Kris Strife]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

...
Go sit in the corner.

Don't worry, I'm already punishing myself trying to figure out who would be who in a GI Joe/Exalted Mash Up.

[Teln]

Christ, I just realized something else about Cobra Form: If we're going strictly by RAW, then that bit about unsoakable unexpected attacks applies to attacks made with all martial arts weapons, not just unarmed attacks/form weapon attacks.

[Reynard]

Originally Posted by Teln

Christ, I just realized something else about Cobra Form: If we're going strictly by RAW, then that bit about unsoakable unexpected attacks applies to attacks made with all martial arts weapons, not just unarmed attacks/form weapon attacks.

Except not, as you can't use non-form/unarmed weapons with Martial Arts Charms.

[Kyeudo]

Originally Posted by SurlySeraph

It's just a bit weird and disjointed overall.
Dread Scale Fascination gives you what, 9 extra health levels, because your anima is... scaly? That's pretty odd for a style that started off being about poison and counterattacks. Oh, and fear.
Actually, where did the fear part come from? That's not in Snake Style or in Crane Style, it wasn't really in the fluff, and I'd think that something like "You can choke people by staring at them because you're just that scary" is a) quite thematic for something called Cobra Style, and b) should have been hinted at in the introduction.
Death-Dreaming Flux has nice synergy with other things in the style, but the explanation is bizarre and unclear until you figure out that it just lets you make a counterattack without having been attacked.
The Form seems like they just threw in every idea they couldn't find a place for.
And the whole style points thing - argh! It looks like it's supposed to be an entire and fairly complex mechanic, so then why is it limited to a single Charm of an obscure school?

To answer pretty much all of your questions: Because the Ink Monkeys wrote it. The Ink Monkeys suffer heavily from Sturgeon's Law because they seem to operate on the Monkeys-Flinging-Poo model (throw enough crap at a wall and eventually something sticks).