Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

true_shinken · 02-04-2011, 02:14 PM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XVIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59pm CUT on Friday, February 11th 2010 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, true_shinken. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, since it breaks anonymity.

Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.

Spoiler

NAME OF ENTRY

Level	Class	Base Attack<br>Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities

Code

Spoiler

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)

Spoiler

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

This week's special ingredient is:
Fey Features' Unseelie Dark Hunter! Our first online secret ingredient.
We will have trophies for 1st through 3rd places, as well as a special trophy for honorable mention. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez optimiser!

Judges
Grynning
dextercorvia
Talbot

Contestants
OMG_Ponies
Waker
Private-Prinny
Amphetryon
Clepto
gbprime
Nerdanel
Amechra
gbprime
Zaq
Thurbane
Draz74
Xiander
Duncan_Ruadrik
Deathslayer7
OMGPonies

The Builds
Skullface
The Creeper
Perpetua
Reek
Tamalin
Faltino
Ogar
Tamlaine
The Loyal Servant

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
Iron Chef V: War Chanter
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
Iron Chef XII: War Mind
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante

OMG PONIES · 02-04-2011, 02:15 PM

Competing, ~~but can a link be provided~~?

editing while I was posting!

bartman · 02-04-2011, 02:50 PM

Hmm, The special entry requirement for this one should make for some interesting reading in the backstories. Can't wait to see what we end up with.

Deathslayer7 · 02-04-2011, 02:54 PM

question: how many levels of the dark hunter do we have to use? All or some? Also interested in as a contestant. Also, I can't seem to find Wilderness Lore. Can someone direct me to it?

kestrel404 · 02-04-2011, 02:58 PM

Woo hoo! I was hoping it would be this one! Wis based arcane casting! Unseelie Court shenanigans! This should be a good one.

Amphetryon · 02-04-2011, 03:01 PM

Competing. Quick note: the Dark Hunter appears to be 3.0, as it references Wilderness Lore instead of Survival.

Private-Prinny · 02-04-2011, 03:05 PM

I actually have a pretty good idea for this one. Count me in.

BTW, are we going to use Survival instead of Wilderness Lore for the entry requirements, or are we going back to the 3.0 skill system?

Cieyrin · 02-04-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathslayer7

question: how many levels of the dark hunter do we have to use? All or some? Also interested in as a contestant. Also, I can't seem to find Wilderness Lore. Can someone direct me to it?

Past Iron Chefs tend to have high scorers taking most, if not all, levels of a secret ingredient. The typical range is 8-10, though I think some entries have gone as low as having 5 levels before jumping out. Don't think they scored too well, either.

Waker · 02-04-2011, 03:37 PM

Excellent, I've got plenty of warning for this one, so I'll be competing.

Zaq · 02-04-2011, 03:40 PM

Yeah, we definitely need some official clarification on the skills for this one. Saying that Survival is a prereq is fine, but there are a lot of outdated skills on its list. Best to nip that confusion in the bud, no?

Anyway, this one isn't inspiring me right now, but I'll say something if that changes.

true_shinken · 02-04-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private-Prinny

I actually have a pretty good idea for this one. Count me in.

BTW, are we going to use Survival instead of Wilderness Lore for the entry requirements, or are we going back to the 3.0 skill system?

It's Survival.

T.G. Oskar · 02-04-2011, 04:14 PM

Chairman! Please clear that this entry is the Unseelie Dark Hunter, or place it as [Unseelie] Dark Hunter, since there's another Dark Hunter on the Complete Warrior and people might be confused.

Not competing, but not sure if I'll judge this one or whether I'll rest for a while.

Tam_OConnor · 02-04-2011, 04:37 PM

I think I'll just be watching, because standard D&D fey and I have some fairly major disagreements. If there's a need, though, I might be able to judge.

Deathslayer7 · 02-04-2011, 04:47 PM

and if possible, translate the 3.0 skills for the Unseelie Dark Hunter into 3.5 skills. The major note being: Animal Empathy and Intuit Direction. I would add in Wilderness Lore but we already said that was survival.

vikingofdoom · 02-04-2011, 04:52 PM

My guess for Animal empathy would be handle animal/wild empathy (choose one). Intuit direction is likely survival.

Deathslayer7 · 02-04-2011, 05:02 PM

I'm pretty sure wilderness lore is survival. Did you mean Gather Info?

Cieyrin · 02-04-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathslayer7

I'm pretty sure wilderness lore is survival. Did you mean Gather Info?

No, Intuit Direction got rolled into Survival alongside Wilderness Lore.

OMG PONIES · 02-04-2011, 05:57 PM

So how will that work? Can I be so bold as to suggest a SI that's already 3.5?

true_shinken · 02-04-2011, 06:07 PM

OK, for the update on (Unseelie) Dark Hunter:

They get wild empathy, as a Druid of the same level, instead of Animal Empathy skill
They get Survival as a class skill instead of Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction

I don't think anything else needs clarification. Quite an easy update.

Amphetryon · 02-04-2011, 07:18 PM

Well, one idea tossed out already as unworkable. On to the second concept.

Clepto · 02-04-2011, 09:50 PM

I'll be competing in this one. Good luck everyone.

Waker · 02-05-2011, 12:12 AM

One quick question, are LA buy offs allowed? I didn't see any mention for or against it in the rules.

dextercorvia · 02-05-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waker

One quick question, are LA buy offs allowed? I didn't see any mention for or against it in the rules.

That has been up to the individual judge in the past. Some of them frown on it more than others.

I'd like to try competing this time. I'm having trouble getting the prerequisite skills, though, so we'll see.

Grynning · 02-05-2011, 12:33 AM

He's back, and he's after justice...
or maybe just tasty entries...

Put me down for a judge slot. My hiatus was intended to be brief, but the length of the last contest made it feel like a very long time

Pechvarry · 02-05-2011, 12:58 AM

Not only an affiliation PrC, but one that doesn't allow the player to possess a conscience (until they're done taking levels in it) by virtue of serving this creature:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WotC

The queen is a capricious creature, quite chaotic and quite evil.

Add to that, the only thing really noteworthy is wis-based arcane casting and a +mount speed feature.

Good luck, contestants...

gbprime · 02-05-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waker

One quick question, are LA buy offs allowed? I didn't see any mention for or against it in the rules.

I'm starting to wonder if avoiding LA is the best tactic. I've been penalized for using LA buyoff and I've been penalized for NOT using LA buyoff. There's at least 1 judge on either side of that fence each round, so you're going to lose a half point from SOMEONE no matter what you do.

The bottom line is... do whatever makes sense for the build. Coolness and power are worth points too, and taking a half point hit from some judge is worth getting an extra point from several judges.

Nerdanel · 02-05-2011, 09:00 AM

I'm trying my hand at competing again. It's going to be interesting to see how many people had the same build idea.

ArcanistSupreme · 02-05-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbprime

I'm starting to wonder if avoiding LA is the best tactic. I've been penalized for using LA buyoff and I've been penalized for NOT using LA buyoff. There's at least 1 judge on either side of that fence each round, so you're going to lose a half point from SOMEONE no matter what you do.

The bottom line is... do whatever makes sense for the build. Coolness and power are worth points too, and taking a half point hit from some judge is worth getting an extra point from several judges.

I've seen some people say what they would do without LA buyoff, but also include options for if it is available. They cover all of their bases, and they can't be penalized either way.

And am I crazy, or is it possible to get every aspect of this class (minus speed bonuses, which aren't that great) from other sources? Maybe some kind of ToB gish build with Bloodclaw master?

Nerdanel · 02-05-2011, 11:50 AM

I have a question: Are the hounds and the mount considered class features or are they just suggestions for the kind of things typical Unseelie Dark Hunters spend personal resources to get?

Waker · 02-05-2011, 11:55 AM

It looks like they are meant to be suggestions. The class itself doesn't actually give you any improvements with your mount (aside from speed) or cohorts. The class looks like one that is best used with an NPC, but that is part of the challenge.