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Old 02-11-2011, 10:09 AM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Jarian
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Default [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Death Knight


"The Lich King has given me power immeasurable, yet you dare stand in my path? Fool! This is the last mistake you will ever make!"
- Nysaqua Frostsoul, Tielfling Death Knight

Class Skills
The Death Knight's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Alignment: Any nongood. Death Knights may try to balance the evilness of their abilities with good actions, but they are inherently tainted by evil. A neutral alignment is the best one can hope for. (If undead are not inherently evil in your campaign, consider allowing Death Knights to be good aligned.)

Hit Dice: d8

LevelBABFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecial
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Presences, Blood Strike, Death Coil, Icy Touch, Plague Strike
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Acherus Deathcharger, Death Gate, Death Grip
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Death Strike, Pestilence, Raise Dead
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Mind Freeze, Blood Boil
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Chains of Ice, Strangulate
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Death and Decay, Obliterate, Path of Frost
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Blood Tap, Icebound Fortitude
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Dark Command, Festering Strike
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Horn of Winter
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Death Pact
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Rune Strike
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Anti-Magic Shell
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Raise Ally
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Empower Rune Weapon
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Army of the Dead
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Mastery
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Outbreak
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Runic Empowerment
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Necrotic Strike
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Dark Simulacrum

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Death Knights are proficient with all simple and martial melee weapons, and with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light). Death Knights are not proficient with any types of shields.

Specialization: At 1st level, a Death Knight chooses a path in which to specialize. Each path unlocks different powerful abilities over the course of the Death Knight's career, as shown on the individual table for each path. The choice of a path is permanent, representing the Death Knight's dedication to one of the three Arts.

Blood Specialization:
Spoiler


Frost Specialization:
Spoiler


Unholy Specialization:
Spoiler


Presences (Su): All Death Knights have access to the three Presences: Blood, Frost, and Unholy. Though each of these Presences are improved with access to the appropriate specialization, any Death Knight may use any of the Presences. Assuming a new Presence is a swift action that consumes any Runic Power the Death Knight may have. A Presence lasts until the Death Knight assumes a new Presence or dismisses his current Presence, a free action.

Blood Presence: While in the Blood Presence, a Death Knight increases Armor bonuses to AC by 30%, takes 10% less damage from all sources, and gains 1 hitpoint per class level.

Frost Presence: While in the Frost Presence, a Death Knight deals 10% more damage with all of his class abilities, and generates 10% more Runic Power from all sources.

Unholy Presence: While in the Unholy Presence, a Death Knight gains a +10' class bonus to his base movement speed and generates 10% more runic power from all sources.

Runes: A Death Knight's primary method of powering his abilities is through his runes, which he engraves into his weapons. The runes need not be elegant, and can quickly be scratched into any weapon the Death Knight happens to acquire. However, it is customary to have each of the six runes engraved in as much detail as possible when time permits; a DC 15 Craft: Caligraphy and Craft: Metalworking or Woodworking, depending on the weapon, is sufficient to inscribe masterful runes into a given weapon. A Death Knight suffers no penalty for having makeshift runes on a weapon, but other Death Knights may react with disdain if he intentionally ignores the custom.

A Death Knight channels his abilities through two Blood runes, two Frost runes, and two Unholy runes. When a given rune is tapped for its abilities, its power becomes unavailable for 4 rounds, at which point the Death Knight may draw upon it again.

Unless otherwise noted, any ability that requires runes requires a melee weapon to use.

Runic Power: Whenever a Death Knight taps a rune, his weapon resonates with the power. Should he damage a foe with the ability that tapped the rune, he gains an amount of Runic Power based on the number of runes tapped. Runic Power functions similarly to the Death Knight's runes, in that it powers several of his abilities, but it does not recharge on its own. A Death Knight can store up to 100 points of Runic Power at a time. If he does not gain or use Runic Power for 4 rounds, his stored Runic power begins to drain away at a rate of 5 points per round.

An ability that consumes 1 rune will generate 10 points of Runic Power if it damages an enemy. An ability that consumes 2 runes will generate 15 points of Runic Power. An ability that consumes 3 runes will generate 20 points of Runic Power.

Blood Strike (Ex): As an attack action, a Death Knight may perform a Blood Strike. A Blood Strike deals normal damage, plus an additional 15% for each of the Death Knight's diseases on the target.

Using Blood Strike consumes 1 Blood Rune.

Death Coil (Su): As an an attack action, a Death Knight may hurl an orb of roiling shadows at a target within 40 feet. This orb deals 1d6 profane damage per two levels, rounded up.

If used on a Risen Ghoul or the Death Knight when under the effect of Lichborne, Death Coil instead heals for this amount.

Death Coil consumes 40 Runic Power when used.

Unlike most supernatural abilities, Death Coil is subject to spell resistance.

Icy Touch (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight may call down a torrent of icy shards on an opponent within 20 feet. These shards deal 1d4 cold damage per class level and infect the target with Frost Fever if it takes damage. A successful Fortitude save, DC (10+1/2 HD+Str modifier) halves the cold damage, but does not negate the application of Frost Fever unless the target fails to take any damage.

Using Icy Touch consumes 1 Frost Rune.

Unlike most supernatural abilities, Icy Touch is subject to spell resistance.

Frost Fever: Supernatural disease - application varies, no save to resist effects after initial application. Incubation period 1 round, damage repeats at beginning of each round thereafter, lasting 5 rounds or until dispelled. Damage 1 cold damage per Death Knight level. Secondary effect: reduces target's physical damage dealt by 20% for duration of the effect.

Plague Strike (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight may perform a Plague Strike. A Plague Strike deals normal damage and infects the target with the Blood Plague if it hits.

Using Plague Strike consumes 1 Unholy Rune.
Blood Plague: Supernatural disease - application varies, no save to resist effects after initial application. Incubation period 1 round, damage repeats at beginning of each round thereafter, lasting 5 rounds or until dispelled. Damage 1d2 profane damage per Death Knight level.

Acherus Deathcharger (Sp): As a standard action, a Death Knight of 2nd level or higher may summon the Acherus Deathcharger, a steed of bone and unearthly blue flame, resembling a warhorse (or warpony, in the case of a Small death knight).

An Acherus Deathcharger has 1 HD for every two Death Knight levels. Should the Deathcharger be reduced to 0HP or lower it immediately disappears in an explosion of flame and bone. The Death Knight may resummon a slain Deathcharger as normal.

Acherus Deathcharger:
Spoiler

Death Gate (Sp): Whenever a Death Knight spends at least a week in an area, he may attune himself to that place. Thereafter, he may open a portal of swirling purple mist to that area by spending ten consecutive rounds casting this ability. The portal is large enough for the Death Knight to ride through on his Deathcharger, but may not be entered by other creatures. Enemies and allies alike can see the gate, which remains open for up to eight hours after being cast, and can walk through it without interference, but doing so does nothing except leave them with a vague feeling of unease.

An identical portal appears at the Death Knight's destination. If he steps through this second gateway before eight hours elapse, he returns to the location of the first gate and the gates disappear. Even if he doesn't use the second gate again, both gates disappear after eight hours.

Treat this ability as the result of a 1st level Conjuration (Teleportation) spell for adjudicating effects.
Death Grip (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight may harness the energy that surrounds and binds all matter to pull a creature up to four size categories larger than himself and no more than 60 feet away adjacent to himself. Using Death Grip does not break stealth or invisibility effects. Death Grip may be used every five rounds.

Unlike most supernatural abilities, Death Grip is subject to spell resistance.

Death Strike (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 3rd level or higher may perform a Death Strike. A Death Strike deals normal damage plus 1 bonus damage per two class levels. If the Death Knight hits with a Death Strike, he is healed for 25% of the damage taken in the last round, minimum of 7% of his full normal hitpoints.

Using Death Strike consumes 1 Frost and 1 Unholy Rune.

Pestilence (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 3rd level or higher may spread diseases from one target to all nearby foes. When using this ability, the Death Knight selects one target within 30 feet; all diseases on that target are spread to all enemies within 10 feet of the target, with the same duration as the original. Diseases spread in this way deal 50% normal damage.

Unlike most supernatural abilities, Pestilence is subject to spell resistance.

Raise Dead (Sp): Once per encounter as a standard action, a Death Knight of 3rd level or higher may call an undead servant from the beyond. The resulting creature claws its way free of the ground in a square adjacent to the Death Knight at the start of his next turn, and acts on his initiative for the next four rounds, at which point the magic holding its body together fails and it falls apart in a heap of bones.

An undead creature created by this ability has hit dice equal to the Death Knight's class level -1.

Risen Ghoul:
Spoiler


Mind Freeze (Su): As an immediate action, a Death Knight of 4th level or higher may attempt to counter a spell being cast within 20 feet of himself. The Death Knight makes a dispel check, as if casting greater dispel magic, with his class level in place of the caster level. If successful, the spell is counterspelled and the target cannot cast any spells from the same school of magic for two rounds. Mind Freeze may be used every 2 rounds.

Using Mind Freeze consumes 20 Runic Power.

Blood Boil (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 4th level or higher may release waves of energy, boiling the blood of all enemies within 10 feet of himself. All affected enemies that fail a Fortitude save, DC (10+1/2 HD+Str modifier) take 1d3 damage per class level. The damage dice for this ability increase by one step for each of the Death Knight's diseases affecting a given enemy, to a maximum of d6.

Using Blood Boil consumes 1 Blood rune.

Chains of Ice (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 5th level or higher may summon chains of ice around the legs of an enemy within 20 feet. A moment after being summoned, the chains snap together, biting into the enemy's flesh. If the target fails a Reflex save, DC (10+1/2 HD+Str modifier) its movement speed is slowed by 50% for 3 rounds, and it is infected with Frost Fever.

Using Chains of Ice consumes 1 Frost rune.

Strangulate (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 5th level or higher may cause the blood surrounding creature's windpipe or other means of producing intelligible sounds to crush together, rendering the target unable to speak or make intelligible sounds, provided the creature is within 60 feet of you. If the target fails a Fortitude save, DC (10+1/2 HD+Str modifier) it is rendered essentially mute for one round, unable to talk or cast spells with verbal components.

Strangulate may be used once per minute.

Using Strangulate consumes 1 Blood rune.

Death and Decay (Su): As a standard action, a Death Knight of 6th level or higher may create a 40 foot radius area of torment, the very ground and air twisting, warping, bubbles of reality boiling up from the earth only to burst and fall back to the ground in a spray.

At the start of each of the Death Knight's turns, all creatures except the Death Knight within the area of Death and Decay take 1d4 profane damage per class level.

Death and Decay lasts for 5 rounds. Only one Death and Decay effect may be active at one time.

Using Death and Decay consumes 1 Unholy rune.

Obliterate (Ex): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 6th level or higher may deliver a vicious blow with his weapon. Using Obliterate doubles the base damage of the weapon and deals an additional point of damage per class level. The total damage dealt is increased by 25% for each disease present on the target.

Using Obliterate consumes 1 Frost and 1 Unholy rune.

Path of Frost (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 6th level or higher may surround his feet in a swirling aura of unearthly cold for up to ten minutes. This aura instantly freezes any liquid the Death Knight steps on, but deals no damage. The Death Knight may thus move across bodies of water or even molten lava with no hinderance, save for the natural dangers of the area. The frozen path created by this ability persists for three rounds before melting away, regardless of the temperature of the surrounding area.

If the Death Knight is mounted on his Acherus Deathcharger, the Deathcharger's hooves are also surrounded by the aura of cold.

Using Path of Frost consumes 1 Frost rune, but generates no Runic Power.

Blood Tap (Su): As a free action, a Death Knight of 7th level or higher may voluntarily take 1 damage for every hit die he possesses to instantly refresh a recharging Blood rune. Blood Tap may be used once every minute.

Icebound Fortitude (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 7th level or higher may freeze his blood for two rounds. While this ability is active, the Death Knight takes 20% less damage from all sources and is immune to stunning and paralyzation effects, and poison and disease effects do not advance the count toward their next damaging step.

Icebound Fortitude may be used once per encounter.

Using Icebound Fortitude consumes 20 Runic Power.

Dark Command (Su): As a standard action, a Death Knight of 8th level or higher may speak a command in the true language of things, compelling a creature to attack him above all others. If the target fails a Will save, DC (10+1/2 HD+Str modifier) it is subjected to the effects of the Goad feat, except that this effect restricts all forms of attack, including those normally excluded by the feat.

Festering Strike (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 8th level or higher may lash out with a vile attack, extending the duration of his diseases on his target. Festering Strike increases the base damage of his weapon by one step and deals one point of profane damage per two class levels. If it hits, the duration of each of the Death Knight's diseases on the target is lengthened by one round.

Using Festering Strike consumes 1 Frost rune.

Horn of Winter (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 9th level or higher may raise a conjured horn of bloody ice to his lips and play it. All allies that can hear the horn played gain a profane bonus to strength and dexterity equal to 1/4 their HD for 5 rounds.

Playing the Horn of Winter also generates 10 Runic Power.

The Horn of Winter may be played every 3 rounds.

Death Pact (Su): As a free action, a Death Knight of 10th level or higher may sacrifice a Risen Ghoul or all Risen Minions bound to him to heal himself for 25% of his maximum health. The sacrificed undead creature is immediately destroyed, reduced to a pile of dust and bones.

Using Death Pact consumes 40 Runic Power.

Rune Strike (Ex): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 11th level or higher may make a melee touch attack against a target within range, ignoring all cover and concealment less than total and all miss chances. If it hits, the target takes automatic weapon damage. The only modifiers that are applied to this automatic damage are the Death Knight's strength, the weapon's enhancement bonus, and any damaging enchantments on the weapon.

Rune Strike may only be used after an attack made against the Death Knight fails to strike him, or if he is in the Blood Presence.

Using Rune Strike consumes 30 Runic Power.

Anti-Magic Shell (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 12th level or higher may surround himself in a glowing shell of antimagic. This shell absorbs 75% of all damage from magical sources, up to a maxiumum of 50% of the Death Knight's full normal hitpoints. The shell lasts for two rounds, or until the full amount has been absorbed. While the shell is active, the Death Knight is immune to any negative effects from magical sources.

Anti-Magic Shell may be used once per minute.

Raise Ally (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 13th level or higher may summon a temporary shell for an ally that has fallen in combat. This ability functions as the Death Knight's Raise Dead ability, except that the Risen Ghoul has hit dice equal to the dead ally's hit dice he had in life, and the Risen Ghoul is under the control of the character whose soul is inhabiting the shell. Raise Ally must be used within one round of the death, and has a range of 100 feet. If the ally is unwilling to inhabit the summoned shell, it collapses one round later. Otherwise, it lasts for the full normal duration of the Death Knight's Raise Dead ability, then releases the ally's soul as normal for death.

Raise Ally may be used once per day.

Empower Rune Weapon (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 14th level or higher may call upon a burst of power, instantly refreshing all of his consumed runes and generating 25 Runic Power.

Empower Rune Weapon may be used twice per day, but no more than once per enounter.

Army of the Dead (Su): As a full-round action, a Death Knight of 15th level or higher may call forth a small army of minions; these minions are virtually useless in combat, but interpose themselves between enemies and allies, drawing attacks toward themselves. Army of the Dead summons six Risen Minions, which appear in squares adjacent to the Death Knight and act immediately upon completion of the action used to summon them. Risen Minions last for two rounds before the magic holding them together fails.

Risen Minion:
Spoiler


Mastery: At 16th level, a Death Knight gains a potent increase to its abilities. The exact nature of this increase depends on the Death Knight's specialization.

Blood Specialization: Whenever the Death Knight uses Death Strike, he gains 75% of the health gained from the attack as temporary hitpoints, stacking up to his full normal hitpoints. These temporary hitpoints last for one minute or until consumed.

Frost Specialization: All cold damage inflicted by the Death Knight or his diseases is increased by 25%.

Unholy Specialization: All profane damage inflicted and all disease damage inflicted by the Death Knight is increased by 33%.

Outbreak (Su): As a swift action, a Death Knight of 17th level or higher may immediately bestow the Blood Plague and Frost Fever diseases upon an enemy within 60 feet.

Outbreak is usuable once every minute.

Runic Empowerment (Su): Whenever a Death Knight of 18th level or higher hits with Death Coil, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike, he has a 45% chance to activate a random recharging rune.

Necrotic Strike (Su): As an attack action, a Death Knight of 19th level or higher may perform a Necrotic Strike. A Necrotic Strike deals normal damage, and absorbs the next (3 x Death Knight level) points of healing the target would receive in the next 3 rounds. For three rounds, or until the full amount of healing is absorbed, the cast time of all of the target's spells and spell-like abilities is increased by one step.

Necrotic Strike consumes 1 Unholy rune when used.

Dark Simulacrum (Su): A Death Knight of 20th level may place a mark upon an enemy within 60 feet as a swift action, absorbing the next spell cast by that target and allowing the Death Knight to cast that spell himself. If the target attempts to cast a spell while the mark is active, the spell automatically fails and the spell is wasted, and the Death Knight may cast the spell within a miniute of copying it, without components. He is treated in all respects as if he were the original caster of the spell, including caster level and save DC, if any. The mark of Dark Simulacrum lasts for two rounds or until triggered.

Dark Simulacrum may be used once per minute.

Dark Simulacrum consumes 20 Runic Power when used.
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Last edited by Jarian : 02-18-2011 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:12 AM   Top  -  End  -  #2
super dark33
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

may i ask what are the PEACHES and PEARS are?

Oh and you should give it a limited spell list of clerics
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Last edited by super dark33 : 02-11-2011 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:14 AM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

A note on "attack action" abilities:
Spoiler


Immobilized:
Spoiler


A note on percentages:
Spoiler


So, since PEACH is so commonly used, let's go with PEAR for this one. Please Examine and Reply, guys.

I realize I haven't finished some of the stuff in the Unholy Specialization yet. Haven't got around to it, will finish soon. No need to point it out.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #4
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

As someone who plays a Deathknight in WoW, I love you. As a game designer, I love you.

Did I mention that I love you?

Seriously, a very good port from WoW. Why exactly must one be a non-good Deathknight, may I ask? I would love to play a good Deathknight who tries to do the best he can to do good while trying to fight his natural thirst for blood.

[Edit]: You might want to think about converting the percentages to easier to use dice. For instance, instead of an increase of 10% of damage to targets at 25% of their health, you could make it and extra 2d4 damage when attacking enemies at 25% of their health. It would make it easier and a whole lot less number crunchy to play a Deathknight, especially on a PbP game, where you would have to roll the dice, and then edit your post afterwards with the math every. Single. Roll.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by super dark33 View Post
may i ask what are the PEACHES and PEARS are?
PEACH = Please Examine and Critique Honestly.

PEAR = My sad attempt at humor. Please Examine and Reply.

Quote:
Oh and you should give it a limited spell list of clerics
I disagree, as I've represented each of the abilities granted by the Death Knight class here. Clerical casting would require me to nerf the melee capabilities of the class, and that's something I don't want to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
As someone who plays a Deathknight in WoW, I love you. As a game designer, I love you.

Did I mention that I love you?
Whythankyou.

Quote:
Seriously, a very good port from WoW. Why exactly must one be a non-good Deathknight, may I ask? I would love to play a good Deathknight who tries to do the best he can to do good while trying to fight his natural thirst for blood.
Blech. It's just in keeping with the standard D&D theme that Profane damage and undead are evil. It's noted in the alignment line that DMs can choose to allow good Death Knights if they want to.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:20 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
unosarta
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
Blech. It's just in keeping with the standard D&D theme that Profane damage and undead are evil. It's noted in the alignment line that DMs can choose to allow good Death Knights if they want to.
Meh.

Also, see my above edit. It would make the person who uses this classes' life so much easier.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:20 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
[Edit]: You might want to think about converting the percentages to easier to use dice. For instance, instead of an increase of 10% of damage to targets at 25% of their health, you could make it and extra 2d4 damage when attacking enemies at 25% of their health. It would make it easier and a whole lot less number crunchy to play a Deathknight, especially on a PbP game, where you would have to roll the dice, and then edit your post afterwards with the math every. Single. Roll.
It's intended for ease of use in a real time game, where adding percentages of total damage done doesn't require you to roll extra dice. It was one or the other, and I chose to make it simpler for people that don't have all the time in the world to edit a post with total damage dealt.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #8
unosarta
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
It's intended for ease of use in a real time game, where adding percentages of total damage done doesn't require you to roll extra dice. It was one or the other, and I chose to make it simpler for people that don't have all the time in the world to edit a post with total damage dealt.
No, but it still requires you to carry a calculator and do a lot more math than some people would be willing to do. I personally would play it anyway, but it would be a turn off for many, and would seriously slow combat down.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:26 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
No, but it still requires you to carry a calculator and do a lot more math than some people would be willing to do. I personally would play it anyway, but it would be a turn off for many, and would seriously slow combat down.
"I hit for 17, so... 25% bonus... 4. 21 damage!"

I'm sorry, I just don't see the extra time being spent vs having to roll another handful of dice and add it all up. Potential players are free to bring up possible alternatives with their DMs if adding percentages slows their game down too much.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
"I hit for 17, so... 25% bonus... 4. 21 damage!"

I'm sorry, I just don't see the extra time being spent vs having to roll another handful of dice and add it all up. Potential players are free to bring up possible alternatives with their DMs if adding percentages slows their game down too much.
"So I use Heart Strike. I am in Frost Presence, one opponent has 25% health, the other doesn't. One, I applied two diseases to, the other only has one since I only have so many actions per round. So, 50% bonus to one enemy, 25% to the other. 10% overall, I have 15 hit points missing, so that is an extra 1 damage. So, how much bonus damage is that?"
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

The Good: Incredibly faithful translation of the World of Warcraft class, and managed to be a very interesting and very powerful melee class that doesn't use initiator levels or Tome of Battle mechanics.

The Bad:
Really, really complicated class; arguably the most complicated class I've ever seen. Tons of abilities to keep track of, multiple resources to monitor (Runic Power pool, runes on cooldown, conversion to Death Runes, a mount, potentially a companion)...it all make this class very book-keeping heavy. This by itself isn't bad (Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms is bookkeeping heavy too). But if there's a way to keep the flavor while losing some of the options, abilities, or resources that might be best.

The real kicker for me is all the percentages. I have to agree; a percentage-based class seems like it's going to be really frustrating. I'd much rather see "DR 10/-" or "+2 damage" or "inflict 1d6 additional damage" then have to punch everything into a calculator. I know this is a carry-over from WoW, but I just feel it really doesn't fit well in a d20-based Pen and Paper system. It also leads to confusion, as an additional example to expand on unosartas...

I'm a Blood Death Knight in Blood Presence with Blood Barrier and Bone Shield active. I nail an opponent with Icy Touch. He attacks me back for 20 damage. How much damage do I take? 8 damage (50%, -2)? Do I take 10 (10%, 20%, 20%, -2)? 9 damage (20, -2, 50%)? The difference here is all just 1 point, but at higher levels it could make a bigger difference. And lord forbid the maths involved if, instead of getting walloped for 100, I get hit five times for 24, 23, 21, 19, 13.

There are also individual abilities that seem a tad too strong for their level, such as...

- Frost Specialization basically gives you a penalty-free Flurry of Blows at 1st level which is unheard of in D&D.

- The above DR gets pretty excessive pretty fast for a Blood Death Knight. True they always take some damage (as opposed to say a flat DR 20/- which can utterly negate small chain attackers), but no class in the game can so easily find a way to take only 38 damage from a Titan's 100 damage power attack.
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EDIT: Seriously. These encounters are like matching cats v. mice. Me vs. a plate full of puff pastry. Chuck Norris v. anything at all, ever.

EDIT2: O-Chul v Shark. Snuggles v. that pansy Good Cat. Pun-Pun, full stop.

Last edited by Hawk7915 : 02-11-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:34 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Amnestic
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

To echo unosarta: I love you. A Death Knight base class (and a faithful translation of the WoW one at that!) is awesome to see. I'd love to take this for a spin in the future (likely Frost, since Frost>All ) Consider this bookmarked.

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Old 02-11-2011, 06:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
"So I use Heart Strike. I am in Frost Presence, one opponent has 25% health, the other doesn't. One, I applied two diseases to, the other only has one since I only have so many actions per round. So, 50% bonus to one enemy, 25% to the other. 10% overall, I have 15 hit points missing, so that is an extra 1 damage. So, how much bonus damage is that?"
As I said, if the percentages become too time-consuming for your group, you are free to tweak the class to use base damage amounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk7915 View Post
The Good: Incredibly faithful translation of the World of Warcraft class, and managed to be a very interesting and very powerful melee class that doesn't use initiator levels or Tome of Battle mechanics.
Thank you.

Quote:
The Bad:
Really, really complicated class; arguably the most complicated class I've ever seen. Tons of abilities to keep track of, multiple resources to monitor (Runic Power pool, runes on cooldown, conversion to Death Runes, a mount, potentially a companion)...it all make this class very book-keeping heavy.


Quote:
The real kicker for me is all the percentages. I have to agree; a percentage-based class seems like it's going to be really frustrating. I'd much rather see "DR 10/-" or "+2 damage" or "inflict 1d6 additional damage" then have to punch everything into a calculator.

[...etc]
I understand, but percentage increases scale with optimization, while flat bonuses do not. This is, ideally, intended to be a melee class that can adventure with wizards and druids and not cry himself to sleep every night, or play with his friend the Duskblade and not outshine him.


Quote:
- Frost Specialization basically gives you a penalty-free Flurry of Blows at 1st level which is unheard of in D&D.
Flurry of Blows sucks anyway, and Frost Death Knights are supposed to be killing machines.

Quote:
- The above DR gets pretty excessive pretty fast for a Blood Death Knight. True they always take some damage (as opposed to say a flat DR 20/- which can utterly negate small chain attackers), but no class in the game can so easily find a way to take only 38 damage from a Titan's 100 damage power attack.
That's intentional. Coupled with Dark Command and Death Grip, Blood Death Knights are supposed to be able to be functional tanks for short periods, rather than walls of hitpoints that enemies can walk over or around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnestic View Post
To echo unosarta: I love you. A Death Knight base class (and a faithful translation of the WoW one at that!) is awesome to see. I'd love to take this for a spin in the future (likely Frost, since Frost>All ) Consider this bookmarked.
Thank you.
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:19 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Hey, i just registered to the forum to post a comment on your homebrew, you should feel honored

I like the idea very much as i play a death knight too. Very nice port of the class, i especially liked the fact that the abilities can be used as attack actions. I think i'd prefer mechanics such as this over the ones introduced in Tome of battle (i've been desperate to create/find/play a melee class that can perform as good as spellcasters in the long run...ToB didnt quite give me what i was looking for).

That being said, i think the class as it is now it would be very problematic to play. Hawk and Unosarta said most of the things i wanted to say as i was reading. The percentages and multiple resources kinda put me off, although i could live with both of them as they're kinda what makes a death knight different from a fighter that would use cleaves, power attacks, trips etc. etc. but what mostly puts me off is how many abilities the class has right now.

Its all good when a computer calculates all that data through scripts etc. but it would be a huge bother having to keep track of all these things yourself.

leaving the percentages and the resources aside, if i were you i'd super-simplify things by keeping just the offensive and some of the most important abilities, and just some special abilities for each specialisation that would do exactly what each Death Knight type is supposed to do: Blood as a really badass dude in plates that the harder you strike him the harder he strikes back, frost as a frenzied killing machine that sends chills down your spine (literally too) and Unholy as an evil bastard that corrupts everything in his path and watches as his minions finish off his weakened foes, occasionaly striking some final blows himself when he's not feeling all that lazy (dont misunderstand i like unholy too).

An example would be for unholy to get faster rune cooldowns (3 rounds instead of 4), stronger diseases, extra Profane damage (or negative energy damage in my opinion) and just Scourge Strike. Oh, and the gargoyle as a final ability (although not sure if i would have that as a perma pet or a summon for a small duration)

You dont really need all the abilities the class has in wow to give the feel of a death knight in a pnp rpg, but then again it depends on what you want to do, its your homebrew anyway

:EDIT:
Also, thinking about it now, we dont really know how a death knight would look like when starting out...You could possibly move the specialisation thing higher in the level list so that the player can get used to its its simpler abilities first - you're practically creating a rotation system in 3.5, its the first time i see a class using one so i think at least i would be confused

:EDIT 2: nerf howling blast

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Old 02-12-2011, 12:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
Please Examine and Reply, guys.
Dang. I thought it was PEARespect.

Saying that out loud makes it sound like a threat. PEARespect...or the death knight will come for you.

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Old 02-12-2011, 05:23 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Hawk7915
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Fair enough. I think you've certainly succeeded in creating a high T3-low T2 melee class. As you won't be dissuaded from the percentage schematic (which I can respect, as it makes it more faithful and makes it scale better), here's some more specific comments...

- You might want to clarify; do you round up or down? Are multiple percentages multiplicative, additive, or do they happen in order? Using my previous example: Do you reduce all damage from that enemy by 50%? All damage by 27%? All damage by 10%, and then by 20%, and then by 20% again? Additive is stronger but also simpler. You'd need to double check that you can't get 100% damage reduction though.

- Heart Strike uses a blood rune, yes?

- I know it's flavorful but I might drop Death Runes entirely. It's going to be hard to even spend runes fast enough in a standard 5-round combat, meaning that even at the highest levels it will rarely be significant. It's a whole lot of extra text for not a lot of effect. Alternatively, you could add even MOAR text and have attacks made with Death runes get an attack bonus, generate more runic power, or auto-confirm crits. Something to actually make them useful in a D&D format that's a lot slower than WoW.

- How long does Horn of Winter last?

- One ability that doesn't need percentages is probably "Toughness" in the blood tree, as it will almost never grant more than a +1 armor bonus per item (if you have +5 Mountain Plate, or some obscure clockwork armor, it might grant +2 if you round up). I'd just make it "While wearing armor, gain +2 additional armor bonus" and call it a day.

- I wouldn't mind seeing an anti-multiclassing clause for the DK; right now it seems a bit too attractive for a one-level dip to gain either a +4 Con or auto-hasted weapons in addition to a plethora of other minor abilities and bonuses. Other than the lack of shield proficiency, best Gish dip ever?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streakster View Post

EDIT: Seriously. These encounters are like matching cats v. mice. Me vs. a plate full of puff pastry. Chuck Norris v. anything at all, ever.

EDIT2: O-Chul v Shark. Snuggles v. that pansy Good Cat. Pun-Pun, full stop.

Last edited by Hawk7915 : 02-12-2011 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:00 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Pestilence-

Quote:
As a swift action, a Death Knight of 3rd level or higher may spread diseases from one target to all nearby foes. When using this ability, the Death Knight selects one target within 30 feet; all diseases on that target are transfered to all enemies within 10 feet of the target, with the same duration as the original. Diseases transfered in this way deal 50% normal damage.
The wording on this is a bit...iffy. "Spread" implies that the diseases end up on both the original target and the newly hit ones, while "transferred" could imply that the diseases end up being removed from the original target and only affect the newly hit ones. Could clean it up, or just a "Diseases are not removed from the original target" line could remove any ambiguities I read into it.

I know how it's meant to work of course, just that the language isn't perfectly clear.

And yeah, I think the anti-multiclassing clause might be a good idea.
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:14 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Originally Posted by PAZelos View Post
Hey, i just registered to the forum to post a comment on your homebrew, you should feel honored
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZelos
That being said, i think the class as it is now it would be very problematic to play. Hawk and Unosarta said most of the things i wanted to say as i was reading. The percentages and multiple resources kinda put me off, although i could live with both of them as they're kinda what makes a death knight different from a fighter that would use cleaves, power attacks, trips etc. etc. but what mostly puts me off is how many abilities the class has right now.
If you think of the abilities as spells as a Wizard's disposal, he really doesn't have very many. It's complicated when compared to a Fighter, sure, but even a Warblade has just as many options, albeit as standard actions. The Death Knight just doesn't have to pick his options from a list of hundreds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZelos
An example would be for unholy to get faster rune cooldowns (3 rounds instead of 4), stronger diseases, extra Profane damage (or negative energy damage in my opinion) and just Scourge Strike. Oh, and the gargoyle as a final ability (although not sure if i would have that as a perma pet or a summon for a small duration)
That removes too many of a Death Knight's options, in my opinion. Also, dealing negative energy damage would make them worse than useless against undead. They'd actually heal them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZelos
:EDIT:
Also, thinking about it now, we dont really know how a death knight would look like when starting out...You could possibly move the specialisation thing higher in the level list so that the player can get used to its its simpler abilities first - you're practically creating a rotation system in 3.5, its the first time i see a class using one so i think at least i would be confused
A Blood Death Knight has:
  • +2 hitpoints
  • +1 Fortitude
  • A small AoE attack
  • The equivalent of one 1st level spell usable at will
  • The equivalent of one 1st level spell that he can "charge up"

It's like picking a Warblade out of all the melee classes and saying it's confusing because it gets a stance and three different attacks. At first glance, maybe it is. But if you sit down with it for five minutes, it's going to be intuitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZelos
:EDIT 2: nerf howling blast
Nerf Meteor Swarm, possibly the worst 9th level spell out there, which a Wizard can use two levels earlier than Howling Blast.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk7915 View Post
- You might want to clarify; do you round up or down?
D&D rounds down by default. The only exceptions to that would be where I've specified that it rounds up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk7915
Are multiple percentages multiplicative, additive, or do they happen in order? Using my previous example: Do you reduce all damage from that enemy by 50%? All damage by 27%? All damage by 10%, and then by 20%, and then by 20% again? Additive is stronger but also simpler. You'd need to double check that you can't get 100% damage reduction though.
Additive. Will clarify. 100% reduction isn't possible outside of Anti-Magic Shell. The best you can get is 70% hitpoint damage reduction, plus 40% reduction of physical damage dealt by your opponent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk7915
- Heart Strike uses a blood rune, yes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk7915
- I know it's flavorful but I might drop Death Runes entirely. It's going to be hard to even spend runes fast enough in a standard 5-round combat, meaning that even at the highest levels it will rarely be significant. It's a whole lot of extra text for not a lot of effect. Alternatively, you could add even MOAR text and have attacks made with Death runes get an attack bonus, generate more runic power, or auto-confirm crits. Something to actually make them useful in a D&D format that's a lot slower than WoW.
I was considering dropping them already. It's another resource to track that has very little actual use. We'll see how it turns out.

Quote:
- How long does Horn of Winter last?
Fixed duration, lowered recharge to make it more in line with the actual recharge in WoW.

Quote:
- One ability that doesn't need percentages is probably "Toughness" in the blood tree, as it will almost never grant more than a +1 armor bonus per item (if you have +5 Mountain Plate, or some obscure clockwork armor, it might grant +2 if you round up). I'd just make it "While wearing armor, gain +2 additional armor bonus" and call it a day.
Fixed.

Quote:
- I wouldn't mind seeing an anti-multiclassing clause for the DK; right now it seems a bit too attractive for a one-level dip to gain either a +4 Con or auto-hasted weapons in addition to a plethora of other minor abilities and bonuses. Other than the lack of shield proficiency, best Gish dip ever?
Blood Presence now gives +1 hp/DK level. If a gish can't use Haste or similar, he's not a very good gish, so I'm not too worried about the single-weapon Speed enchantment.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnestic View Post
Pestilence- The wording on this is a bit...iffy. "Spread" implies that the diseases end up on both the original target and the newly hit ones, while "transferred" could imply that the diseases end up being removed from the original target and only affect the newly hit ones. Could clean it up, or just a "Diseases are not removed from the original target" line could remove any ambiguities I read into it.

I know how it's meant to work of course, just that the language isn't perfectly clear.
Fixed.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:32 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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So, since PEACH is so commonly used, let's go with PEAR for this one. Please Examine and Reply, guys.
Ah, I was wondering. I thought it might mean "Please Examine And Review".
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
PAZelos
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

hmm...reading howling blast again, its damage and area are ok i guess, but why would a fortitude negate the damage instead of halving it? Its not like the target can avoid having his skin frozen alltogether with a successful save, he just kinda...shrugs off most of the pain involved.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Run B? what kind of a feat is that?
in acherus deathcharger
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Supertext B's in printed books indicate bonus feats inherent to the creature. Since I can't create supertext here (at least, I don't think I can) you have to settle for a size 1 capital B, which is as close as I can manage.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Supertext B's in printed books indicate bonus feats inherent to the creature. Since I can't create supertext here (at least, I don't think I can) you have to settle for a size 1 capital B, which is as close as I can manage.
RunB.

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Old 02-12-2011, 04:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Old 02-12-2011, 04:38 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAZelos View Post
hmm...reading howling blast again, its damage and area are ok i guess, but why would a fortitude negate the damage instead of halving it? Its not like the target can avoid having his skin frozen alltogether with a successful save, he just kinda...shrugs off most of the pain involved.
I concur; the class has a lot of things that need testing because they feel pretty powerful compared to what exists now, but Howling Blast isn't one of those abilities. If anything it's actually pretty awful at the level you get it (compared to a 9th level maneuver of spell) so the least I would do is make it Fort for 1/2 instead of Fort negates. Even the ability to spam it as much as four times in a single turn doesn't make it too exciting (you have to work awfully hard to do such a thing, anyhow).

========
As an additional note, it seems as if right now Death and Decay can deal damage to you while the other AoE abilities cannot; might want to change the wording one way or the other (leaning towards "no self-damage" although DnD is pretty strong).
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Quote:
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EDIT: Seriously. These encounters are like matching cats v. mice. Me vs. a plate full of puff pastry. Chuck Norris v. anything at all, ever.

EDIT2: O-Chul v Shark. Snuggles v. that pansy Good Cat. Pun-Pun, full stop.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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If anything it's actually pretty awful at the level you get it (compared to a 9th level maneuver of spell) so the least I would do is make it Fort for 1/2 instead of Fort negates.
I don't know what you guys are talking about. It's always been fort halves.

It's "Fort Halves" in my saved notes. I have no idea how that "Fort Negates" got into the finished version.

Quote:
As an additional note, it seems as if right now Death and Decay can deal damage to you while the other AoE abilities cannot; might want to change the wording one way or the other (leaning towards "no self-damage" although DnD is pretty strong).
Will look into this.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

OMG OMG OMG.

/girly squeal.

I love it. Petitioning DM to allow me to use it in a game. I have been using the Death Knight PrC from WoW's Dark Factions book (WoW had a brief stint in teh d20 world, most of it was bleh) but that particular class didn't really capture the "feel" of a DK, but it did give a Vampiric Rune Weapon which was pretty awesome. This is, to a T, a Death Knight.

Which also borders my issue with it. It has been mentioned before but this is a particularly bookkeeping-heavy class. I personally don't mind having multiple resource management, because I did that when playing WoW anyhow. What does get me is the overabundance of abilities. I know you statted each ability directly, which is awesome, but the sheer amount of abilities these characters have confuses even the mightiest of players.

Im not sure what you should remove, but it seems like having 3 different types of "Raise X" (whether it be ally, dead, or Army) and a lot of Strikes (I understand Icy Touch and Plague Strike, Oblit and Death Strike, but are frost strike, rune strike blood strike, festering strike or even necrotic strike necessary?) just makes for an overly complex class.

I think simplified abilities would go a long way to improving this class, plus it would make it easier to convince a DM to let you play it if he didnt have to spend 45 minutes reviewing each ability
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

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Originally Posted by Saint GoH View Post
Im not sure what you should remove, but it seems like having 3 different types of "Raise X" (whether it be ally, dead, or Army)
Be fair, those all do completely different things. One gives you a minion, one gives an ally a brief shot at life after dying, and one taunts stuff off of your casters.

Quote:
and a lot of Strikes (I understand Icy Touch and Plague Strike, Oblit and Death Strike, but are frost strike, rune strike blood strike, festering strike or even necrotic strike necessary?) just makes for an overly complex class.
Frost Strike is runic power and frost damage - what else is the Frost DK going to do with all his runic power?

Rune Strike is something nothing else even comes close to doing.

Festering Strike is eh. It's not critical, but what's the point of removing just this one thing, thereby nerfing Unholy DKs?

Necrotic Strike is your "No, actually, that's a full-round action for you, Mr. Caster" ability. It's pretty integral to the DK being able to at least have a prayer for competing at higher levels.

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I think simplified abilities would go a long way to improving this class, plus it would make it easier to convince a DM to let you play it if he didnt have to spend 45 minutes reviewing each ability
If you took twenty random maneuvers out of ToB and called them class features, you'd have just as much complexity. I don't like this argument, and anyone who dismisses the class just for actually having class features probably wouldn't allow you to play anything competitive with casters anyway.

But having a spell list half a mile long is just fine by most people. Ugh, hypocrisy.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:37 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Amnestic
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint GoH View Post
Im not sure what you should remove, but it seems like having 3 different types of "Raise X" (whether it be ally, dead, or Army) and a lot of Strikes (I understand Icy Touch and Plague Strike, Oblit and Death Strike, but are frost strike, rune strike blood strike, festering strike or even necrotic strike necessary?) just makes for an overly complex class.
You're never going to be using every one of these abilities in a single fight. Some, I would wager, will be rare picks which you only use once or twice, alongside your base 'set' of abilities (likely consisting of Icy Touch, Plague Strke and some sort of big hitter).

Compare the amount of abilities to the amount of spells any of the spellcasters - even the spontaneous ones like a Sorcerer who will usually have smaller portfolios - will have on hand by level 20 (assuming we're including all the abilities). I'm quite sure that - especially in the case of Clerics and Druids - the numbers don't even compare.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint GoH View Post
I think simplified abilities would go a long way to improving this class, plus it would make it easier to convince a DM to let you play it if he didnt have to spend 45 minutes reviewing each ability
While I do agree that it might be a bit of an arse for a DM to have to look over all the abilities, I also think it's far too cool a class to dismiss out of hand because of it, especially when the core classes have drastically more 'abilities' available to them. Orisons+1st level Cleric spells in PHB number 37 in total, not including domains. That's how much they have available at 1st level!

Edit: Kinda Swordsage'd, point still stands though

Last edited by Amnestic : 02-17-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:09 AM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Eurus
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Death Knight [PEAR!]

Something I just noticed - this guy doesn't seem to gain any direct benefits from mental ability scores at all. Or dexterity, for that matter. That's not necessarily a bad thing (it's kind of nice to see a melee class that's less MAD than normal), it's just unusual and I'm curious as to whether it was an intentional design choice.

Last edited by Eurus : 02-19-2011 at 07:10 AM.
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