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[3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
DARING OUTLAW
"Me? I’m dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It’s the honest ones you want to watch out for. "
-- Captain Jack Sparrow, The Pirates of the Carribbean
The daring outlaw is a skillful and dextrous combatant, a suave, charming rogue, a canny scout, and a subtle and capable thief. Her varied talents and skills grant her exceptional flexibility, and luck is always on his side, allowing her to frequently pull off outrageous stunts other would call impossible. This class replaces both the rogue and the swashbuckler.
A word about precision damage:
Spoiler
Sneak attack. It defines the 3.5 rogue, but is also his Achilles heel: half of the monsters he'll face are immune to it, and all sorts of precision damage, sidelining the rogue far too often for the class to be playable. the daring oultaw assumes a major change in the operating rules of the game: only oozes and swarms are immune to critical hits and precision damage; all other creature types have weaknesses to exploit, even if they're different than the weaknesses of most living, flesh-and-blood creatures. Embrace this change, and precision-based strikers will prosper. Cling to the old way, and precision damage is subpar.
Designer's Notes:
Spoiler
Rogue and swashbuckler are both flavorful classes describing roles that are staples of fantasy and adventure fiction. D&D certainly needs a class for outlaws and scoundrels. Unfortunately, neither the rogue nor the swashbuckler is an especially good class. The rogue has much promise, but with low AC and hp, mediocre accuracy, few feats, and an attack feature (sneak attack) that's useless against half the enemies he'll face, a rogue often struggles to contribute effectively in combat. Rogues are more useful in noncombat roles, but their skills are quickly dwarfed by spellcasting, and even with eight skill points per level, they lack the breadth of expertise to compete with utility spellcasters. Swashbucklers are even worse off, being neither especially capable in combat nor especially useful outside of it.
The Daring Outlaw feat offers an opportunity to correct this by enabling an intriguing rogue/swasbuckler multiclass option, but it's a rough patch on a clunky pair of classes. The new daring outlaw class fully synergizes the two to create a powerful, flexible, and effective option for players of scoundrels, brigands, and ne'er'do-wells.
From a game balance perspective, the daring outlaw aims to fill a strong tier 4 to solid tier 3 design space, depending on how skillfully the player takes advantage of the available options. It is comparable in effectiveness to a swordsage, factotum, or perhaps even a bard.
Change Log:
Spoiler
1.0 Original version
1.01 Edited definition of swashbuckler weapons to clarify that one-handed ranged/thrown weapons are swashbuckler weapons.
1.1 Slightly nerfed trap sense based on playtest results.
1.11 Clarified that the bonus gained when using a reroll provided by the Lucky feature is a luck bonus.
1.12 Adjusted the bonus gained when using a reroll provided by the Lucky feature - it's now your Charisma bonus, if you have one, rather than your Charisma modifier, so a daring outlaw with a low Charisma will not take a penalty on rerolls.
1.13 Added uncanny feint as a special ability option. Tagged arcane stunt, spell reflection, and spell sense as alternate class features for the daring outlaw.
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Daring outlaws have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Dexterity provides extra protection for the lightly-armored daring outlaw, and makes her more accurate in combat. Intelligence augments the daring outlaw's already-impressive collection of skill points, and is important for many class features. Charisma improves her luck, and is important for a daring outlaw who wishes to focus on social interaction and teamwork. Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma are important for many of the daring outlaw's skills.
CLASS SKILLS (10 + Int mod per level, x4 at 1st level)
A daring outlaw's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magice Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Designer's Notes:
Spoiler
Yes, you read that right. Full base attack, a d8 hit die, and 10 skill points per level. Srsly. The rogue/swashbuckler archetype was intended to be a skillmonkey and mobile striker. For this role, you need to a) hit your target, b) sustain at least a couple hits in return, and b) perform excellently at the skills of your trade. Without spells to back us up, we need a rock-solid chassis upon which to build. This is that chassis.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
-- Han Solo, Star Wars
CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the daring outlaw.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A daring outlaw is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor. Use of certain armor and shields or certain weapons can prevent her from using her class features; see Swashbuckling Style for details.
Lucky (Ex): Many daring outlaws live by the credo, “Better lucky than good.” She gains a +1 luck bonus to her AC as long as she is using swashbuckler gear. Additionally, once per day as an immediate action, a daring outlaw may reroll any failed attack roll, ability check, skill check, or saving throw, adding a luck bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) to the roll. The daring outlaw's AC bonus and uses per day of this ability increases at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level. If the daring outlaw possesses any luck feats, she may expend uses of this class feature to pay the cost of activating a luck feat.
Designer's Notes:
Spoiler
A central feature of the daring outlaw is that the class is really lucky. You'll find that rerolls and second chances show up everywhere in this class's arsenal, and are available much more cheaply than for other classes. The ability to succeed when the chips are down is one of the hallmarks of this class.
Sneak Attack (Ex): If a daring outlaw can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically, the daring outlaw's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or when the daring outlaw flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the daring outlaw score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Sneak attack is only usable with swashbuckler weapons.
Boring stuff about sneak attack that you already know:
Spoiler
Ranged attacks count as sneak attacks only if the target is withing 30 feet. A daring outlaw can't strike with deadly accuracy from beyond that range.
The daring outlaw can make nonlethal sneak attacks if her weapon can be used to deal nonlethal damage without taking an attack roll penalty. If she must take the usual -4 penalty to deal nonlethal weapon, then she can't deliver a nonlethal sneak attack with that weapon, because she must make optimal use of her weapon in order to execute a sneak attack.
Bonus sneak attack damage is precision damage, and thus, doesn't affect creatures that are immune to precision damage, such as oozes and swarms. The daring outlaw must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A daring outlaw cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
Interesting things about sneak attack that you want to read:
Spoiler
As mentioned above, "new sneak attack" is resisted only by oozes and swarms. Other creature types are vulnerable. This is necessary to make the ability broadly applicable and useful. Sneak attack is restricted to a category of weapons, much as the Backstab ability on the 1e and 2e thief.
Swashbuckling Style: Many of a daring outlaw's class abilities are only usable when she fights in a certain style. Certain of her class features only work when she is wearing Swashbuckler Gear: she must wear no shield other than a buckler or armor heavier than light, and be carrying no more than a light load. Certain of her class features may instead require her to use Swashbuckler Weapons: these include light weapons or one-handed piercing weapons (which may not be wielded with two hands), one-handed ranged/thrown weapons, plus unarmed strikes and any natural weapons the daring outlaw may possess.
Trapfinding (Ex): Daring outlaws can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty class higher than 20, and can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magical traps. A daring outlaw who beats a trap's DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.
Weapon Finesse: The daring outlaw gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, but only when fighting in the swashbuckling style. She need not meet the prerequisites for this feat.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a daring outlaw can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with greater agility while she is wearing swashbuckler gear. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage.
Trap Sense (Ex): At 2nd level, a daring outlaw gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps. She adds +1 per three class levels as a competence bonus to Search and Disable Device checks involving traps. She also adds this bonus to saves made against traps and to her AC against attacks made by traps. If she has levels in another class that grants trap sense, stack her levels in all such classes to determine the size of her trap sense bonus.
Designer's Notes:
Spoiler
Trap sense now helps you notice traps!
Canny Combatant (Ex): At 3rd level, the daring outlaw becomes a more clever combatant. She adds her Intelligence modifier as a bonus to all opposed combat maneuvers and (e.g. disarm, grapple, trip, etc.), and to all combat uses of skill checks that involve an opposed roll (e.g. Bluff checks made to feint, Intimidate checks made to demoralize, Sense Motive checks made to assess an opponent).
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a daring outlaw can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so when wearing swashbuckler gear. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a daring outlaw already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
Insightful Strike (Ex): Starting at 5th level, the daring outlaw learns to place her finesse attacks where they have greatest effect. She adds her Intelligence modifier as a bonus to her damage rolls when attacking with swashbuckler weapons. This is precision damage.
Designer's Notes:
Spoiler
As mentioned above, precision damage is now more broadly applicable.
Acrobatic Charge (Ex): At 6th level, the daring outlaw may charge over difficult terrain while wearing swashbuckler gear, and her movement is not reduced by difficult terrain while charging. If she performs some sort of cinematic movement during her charge (DM's discretion, but generally involving a Balance, Jump, or Tumble check made as part of movement), she may make a full attack at the end of her charge, provided she is wielding swashbuckler weapons.
Riposte (Ex): At 7th level, the daring outlaw learns the art of the riposte, and can counter-strike when an opponent misses. If an opponent misses on every attack he makes against the daring outlaw on his turn, he draws an attack of opportunity from her. This ability only functions while the daring outlaw is using the swashbuckler style.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A daring outlaw of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked unless the attacker has at least four more daring outlaw levels than the target does. Levels from classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum daring outlaw level required to flank the character.
Improved Teamwork (Ex): At 9th level, the daring outlaw learns to use her clever puns and biting comments to distract foes as she harries them. When she uses the Aid Another action to improve an ally's AC or attack roll, or when an ally uses Aid Another to assist her, she provides (or gains) a competence bonus equal to 1/5 her Bluff ranks + Charisma modifier, in addition to the usual +2 bonus.
Special Abilities: Upon attaining 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a daring outlaw gains a special ability of her choice from among the following options.
Options:
Spoiler
Canny Defense (Ex): The daring outlaw learns to outwit her foes, thwarting their attempts to harm her. She adds her Intelligence modifier to her AC while wearing swashbuckler gear.
Crippling Strike (Ex): The daring outlaw can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. This damage is multiplied on a critical hit, and stacks with any ability damage her attack may deal because of other class features or effects.
Defensive Roll (Ex): While wearing swashbuckler gear, the daring outlaw can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per round when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points from a fall, or from any attack from a weapon or weapon-like spell, she can attempt to roll with the damage. She makes a Tumble check (DC = damage dealt), and if successful, the damage from that attack is reduced by half, and cannot reduce her below 1 hit point, in any event; if she fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to use defensive roll. If she is denied her Dex bonus to AC, she can't attempt a defensive roll.
Designer's Notes:
Spoiler
Now usable more often and more effectively, Defensive Roll is actually good.
Devious Scoundrel (Ex): While wearing swashbuckler gear, the daring outlaw becomes better able to trick her way free from containments and bindings, even magical ones. If she fails her saving throw against an effect that restricts her movement, she can attempt this save again one round later at the same DC.
Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that the daring outlaw takes no damage on a successful save and only half damage on a failed save.
Opportunist (Ex): Opponents provoke an attack of opportunity from the daring outlaw whenever they are struck for damage in melee by another character.
Skill Mastery (Ex): The daring outlaw becomes so certain in her use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. She selects a number of daring outlaw class skills equal to 3 + her permanent Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distraction would normally prevent her from doing so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC when using a mastered skill, even if she would normally lose it (for example, when balancing or climbing). As a free action, she can expend one of the daily rerolls granted by her Lucky class feature to a gain a luck bonus of 5 + her Charisma bonus (if any) to her skill check when Taking 10.
A daring outlaw may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.
Slippery Mind (Ex): The daring outlaw can wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If she is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC.
Stroke of Luck: Sometimes through pure luck, the daring outlaw manages to perform a task perfectly on the first try. Once per encounter when making a skill check with a skill for which she has skill mastery, she may Take 20 on the check instead of Taking 10. This does not increase the amount of time required to make the check, and may be done even if it is not normally possible to take 20 with that skill. As a free action, she can expend one of the daily rerolls granted by her Lucky class feature to a gain a luck bonus of 5 + her Charisma bonus (if any) to her skill check when Taking 20 in this fashion.
Uncanny Feint (Ex): You can feint as a move action, or a swift action if you also have the Improved Feint feat. Once per opponent per encounter, an opponent you successfully feint is flat-footed against your attacks for an entire round.
Feat: A daring outlaw may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability. She may select any luck feat or ambush feat, or any feat that grants a skill bonus or requires a minimum number of skill ranks as a prerequisite.
Improved Flanking (Ex): At 11th level, the daring outlaw harries her foes even more effectively. Whenever she flanks a foe, she and any allies who are flanking with her gain a competence bonus to attack and damage equal to 1/5 her Bluff ranks + Charisma modifier, in addition to the usual +2 to hit.
Weakening Critical (Ex): A daring outlaw of 13th level or higher has very lucky criticals. Whenever she scores a critical hit against a creature, she also deals 2 points of Strength damage to the creature.
Wounding Critical (Ex): A daring outlaw of 15th level or higher has extremely lucky criticals. Whenever she scores a critical hit against a creature, she also deals 2 points of Constitution damage to the creature.
Inspiring Critical (Ex): At 17th level, a daring outlaw's dazzling stunts and daredevil acrobatics inspire her allies to greater effort when she scores a critical hit. Once per encounter as a free action, when she scores a critical hit against a foe or performs an acrobatic charge, she may grant all allies within 100 feet a +4 morale bonus to attacks, saves, and skill checks, immunity to fear, and 20 temporary hit points. This effect lasts for one minute.
Dazing Critical (Ex): A daring outlaw of 19th level or higher has amazingly lucky criticals. Whenever she scores a critical hit against a creature, the target is also dazed for 1d4+1 rounds.
Re: [3.5] Rogue Remix: Ambush Feats and Luck Feats
FEATS
Ambush feats and Luck feats are made for a class like the Daring Outlaw.
But unfortunately those feats aren't very good. So I made them better!
AMBUSH FEATS
Spoiler
ARTERIAL STRIKE [Ambush]
Your sneak attacks target blood vessels, leaving wounds that cause massive blood loss.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: If you hit with a sneak attack, you deliver a wound that won't stop bleeding. Each wound caused in this manner saps an extra 2 points of damage per round from the victim at the beginning of each of your turns, until the victim receives the benefit of a DC 15 Heal check or any cure spell or other magical healing. Wounds from multiple arterial strikes result in cumulative bleeding loss (two successful arterial strikes cause an extra 4 points of damage per round until healed).
An opponent who suffers 4 or more points of bleeding damage from this feat becomes fatigued. An opponent who suffers 12 or more points of bleeding damage from this feat becomes exhausted. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 1d6.
BLINDING STRIKE [Ambush]
Your stealthy attack leaves your foe’s head ringing.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack causes the target to be blinded for 3 rounds per sneak attack die that you forfeit (Fortitude DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Dex modifier to negate). Special: If you forfeit three sneak attack dice when using this feat, the target is blinded permanently (although the blindness can still be healed by spells such as remove blindness).
CONCUSSION ATTACK [Ambush]
Your attacks can damage your opponent’s ability to think clearly.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +3d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack imposes a –2 penalty per two dice of sneak attack you forfeit, applied to the target’s mental ability checks, mental skill checks, and spell save DCs, for 10 rounds. If you use this feat a second time on a target before 10 rounds have elapsed, the effects overlap but do not stack. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 2d6 per -2 penalty you choose to inflict.
DEAFENING STRIKE [Ambush]
Your stealthy attack leaves your foe’s head ringing.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack causes the target to be deafened for 3 rounds per sneak attack die that you forfeit. Special: If you forfeit three sneak attack dice when using this feat, the target is deafened permanently (although the deafness can still be healed by spells such as remove deafness).
DETERRING STRIKE[Ambush]
You can deliver strikes that appear to be much more deadly than they are, cowing your opponent into a timid response.
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Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6 Benefit: Your successful sneak attack grants you a +1 bonus on all saving throws against that foe's abilities and causes the opponent to suffer a 10% miss chance against you, per sneak attack die that you forfeit. This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
DISEMBOWELING STRIKE [Ambush]
You can slash open your opponent to devastating effect.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +3d6, Weapon Focus (any slashing weapon). Benefit: Your successful sneak attack with a slashing weapon for which you have selected Weapon Focus deals 1d4 points of Constitution damage per two sneak attack dice that you forfeit, in addition to its normal damage. You can’t use this feat against the same target more than once per day.
ELDRITCH EROSION [Ambush]
Your attack can weaken your foe’s resistance to magic.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +4d6, Knowledge (arcana) 1 rank. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack gives the target a -3 penalty on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and psionic powers, and a -5 penalty to its spell resistance and power resistance (minimum 0) per three sneak attack dice that you forfeit for 10 rounds.
HAMSTRING [Ambush]
You can wound your opponents' legs, hampering their movement.
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Prerequisite: Sneak attack +3d6, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: If you hit with a sneak attack, you may forfeit two dice of sneak attack to reduce one of your opponent’s speeds by half (such as flying, swimming, etc.). This speed reduction ends after 24 hours have passed or a successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other magical healing is made. Creature that do not rely on limbs to move, or that have more than four locomotive limbs, can’t be slowed down with a hamstring attack. It takes two successful hamstring attacks to affect quadrupeds. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 2d6 per -2 penalty you choose to inflict.
HEAD SHOT [Ambush]
By striking at your opponent’s head, you can temporarily disrupt his thought processes.
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Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6, Weapon Focus (any bludgeoning weapon). Benefit: Your successful sneak attack with a bludgeoning weapon for which you have selected Weapon Focus leaves your foe confused for 1 round per sneak attack die you sacrifice. A successful Will save (DC 10 + the number of extra damage dice normally dealt by your sneak attack + your Dex modifier) reduces the duration to 1 round. Special: You must be able to reach your foe’s head to use this feat with a melee attack.
MERCIFUL STRIKE [General]
You can strike a creature’s vital areas without killing it.
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Prerequisite: Sneak attack ability. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack deals nonlethal damage. When using this feat, you can ignore the usual –4 penalty on attack rolls for attempting to deal nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon.
MIND DRAIN [Ambush]
Your attack can weaken your opponent’s mental powers.
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Prerequisite: Power point reserve, sneak attack +3d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack drains power points from your target equal to its manifester level (minimum 1), and you gain the points drained. If this attack reduces your target to 0 power points, the opponent also loses any psionic focus. A target can only be affected by this feat once per round. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 2d6.
PERSISTENT ATTACKER [Ambush]
Once you find a target’s weak point, you can easily strike it again.
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Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6. Benefit: If your sneak attack hits, your first attack against that creature on your next turn is also considered a sneak attack even if it wouldn’t normally qualify. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 1d6.
PRACTICED CUTTHROAT [Fighter, General]
Your sneak attack is especially deadly.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6 or greater. Benefit: Your sneak attack improves by an additional +2d6. This benefit can't increase your number of sneak attack dice to greater than half your Hit Dice. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain Hit Dice from levels of classes that don’t progress your sneak attack, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus. Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. To benefit from Practiced Cutthroat, you must have sneak attack of +2d6 or greater. If you lose it (for example, if you qualified through the Assassin Stance and you switch to a different stance), Practiced Cutthroat stops working and provides no benefit until you regain a sneak attack of +2d6 or greater.
THROAT PUNCH [Ambush]
By making a precise punch to the throat, you can render a target unable to speak effectively.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, sneak attack +2d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack delivered with an unarmed strike temporarily hinders the target’s ability to speak. For the next 3 rounds per sneak attack die that you forfeited, the target takes a –5 penalty on any skill check requiring speech and has a 50% chance of failure when casting a spell with a verbal component or activating a magic item with a command word. A successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other magical healing will remove the condition. Special: You must be able to reach your foe’s neck to use this feat. If you forfeit three sneak attack dice when using this feat, the target is voice is impaired permanently (although treatment as described above can still remove the condition).
VORPAL STRIKE [Ambush, Fighter]
If you catch your opponent off-guard, you can deliver a vicious decapitating strike.
Spoiler
Prerequisites: Sneak attack +7d6 or greater, Arterial Strike, Persistent Attacker, Staggering Strike, base attack bonus +16 or greater Benefit: As a full-round action, you can deliver a vorpal strike against a foe whom you damaged with a sneak attack on the previous round. Your opponent takes 2d6 Constitution damage in addition to sneak attack damage and normal damage from the blow, and must make a Will save. On a failed save (DC = 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Dexterity modifier), the victim is stunned and nauseated for one round; on a successful save, the victim is merely nauseated. Regardless, the victim must also make a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Dexterity modifier). On a failed save, the hapless fellow is also disabled and staggered; with a successful save, he is merely staggered. These latter conditions last until all the Constitution damage dealt by the vorpal strike has been healed. Naturally, the victim also receives a bleeding wound from your Arterial Strike.
Any victim slain outright by your vorpal strike is decapitated, and cannot be brought back to life with any magic that requires an intact corpse, such as raise dead. Special: Creatures that are immune to precision damage (e.g. gelatinous cube), lack a definable head (e.g. shrieker), or who are not slain by the loss of all heads (e.g. ghost, iron golem), are not subject to a vorpal strike.
LUCK FEATS
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Advantageous Avoidance [Luck]
You have a knack for ducking at just the right moment.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 3rd, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to force a foe to reroll a critical threat made when attacking you and keep the worse result. You can expend two luck rerolls as an immediate action to force a foe to reroll any attack roll made against you and keep the worse result. You gain two luck rerolls per day. Special: Unlike other luck feats, you can use this feat after seeing the success of the roll to be affected.
Better Lucky than Good [Luck]
You can succeed where others would surely fail.
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Prerequisite: Character level 6th, any two luck feats. Benefit: If you roll a natural 1 when making an attack roll, you can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to instead treat the roll as a natural 20. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Dumb Luck [Luck]
You can survive situations that should kill you.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 6th, any two luck feats. Benefit: If you roll a natural 1 when making a saving throw, you can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to instead treat the roll as a natural 20. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Fortuitous Strike [Luck]
You can hit a foe in just the right place.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 6th, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll a weapon damage roll and keep the better result. You can expend two luck rerolls as a swift action to reroll an attack roll and keep the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Good Karma [Luck]
You can use your luck to aid an ally—at the risk of your own neck.
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Prerequisite: Character level 3rd. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to redirect an attack made against an adjacent ally so that it is made against you instead. You must be within reach of the attacker (if a melee attack) or within range of the attack (if a ranged attack) in order to use this ability. The attack roll result remains the same, but it is against your AC, rather than that of your ally. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Healer’s Luck [Luck]
Healing magic just seems to work better when you're involved.
Spoiler
Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll the number of points of damage healed by a conjuration (healing) spell you have just cast or that has just been cast on you, keeping the better result. If someone else is casting a healing spell on your that also affects other targets, only the healing you receive benefits from this feat. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Lucky Break [Luck]
You always manage to use your strength to best effect.
Spoiler
Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll a Strength check, a grapple check, or an attack roll or damage roll made as part of a sunder attempt. You keep the better of the two results. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Lucky Catch [Luck]
Your good fortune can help prevent you from falling to your doom.
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Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to reroll a Dexterity check or a Balance, Climb, or Jump check, keeping the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Lucky Fingers [Luck]
The winds of fortune guide your hands when you most need luck.
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Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to reroll a Dexterity check or a Disable Device, Open Lock, or Sleight of Hand check, keeping the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Lucky Start [Luck]
Sometimes your luck overcomes a slow natural reaction.
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Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll to reroll an initiative check, keeping the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day. Special: Unlike most other luck feats, using Lucky Start requires no action.
Magical Fortune [Luck]
Even you are sometimes surprised by how well your spells work.
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Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll the damage dealt by a spell you have just cast, keeping the better result. You can expend two luck rerolls as a swift action to reroll a caster level check, keeping the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Make Your Own Luck [Luck]
Your hard work lets you exploit minor loopholes.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 9th, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to reroll a skill check or ability check, as long as you have at least 1 rank in that skill. You keep the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Miser’s Fortune [Luck]
Items belonging to you and your allies are abnormally resistant to damage, but your opponents have no such luck.
Spoiler
Benefit: Whenever an opponent makes a sunder attack or Strength check to damage an object within 30 feet of you, you can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to force that opponent to reroll, keeping the worse result. Whenever an ally makes a sunder attack or Strength check to damage an object within 30 feet of you, you can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to allow that ally to reroll, keeping the better result. In addition, as long as you still have one luck reroll remaining for the day, items in your possession receive a +5 luck bonus on saving throws. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Psychic Luck [Luck]
Some psions claim that luck doesn’t exist. You know better.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Manifester level 3rd, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll the damage dealt by a psionic power you have just manifested, keeping the better result. You can expend two luck rerolls as a swift action to reroll a manifester level check, keeping the best result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Sly Fortune [Luck]
Your luck helps you find the right place to move to.
Spoiler
Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to reroll a Dexterity check, or a Hide, Move Silently, or Tumble check, keeping the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Survivor’s Luck [Luck]
You can avoid situations that would surely affect others.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 9th, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to reroll a saving throw you just failed, keeping the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Tempting Fate [Luck]
You are very hard to kill.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 6th, any luck feat. Benefit: You can expend a luck reroll to reroll a stabilization check. In addition, whenever you have at least 1 hit point remaining and would be dealt enough damage to kill you, you can expend one luck reroll as an immediate action to take only enough damage to reduce you to –9 hit points. You automatically stabilize. You gain two luck rerolls per day. Special: Unlike most other luck feats, using Tempting Fate requires no action.
Third Time’s the Charm [Luck]
Your deity smiles upon you.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Character level 3rd, any luck feat, Lucky+1 or access to the Luck domain. Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll to gain a second reroll of a check you have just rerolled with Lucky, with the granted power of the Luck domain, or with any Luck feat, keeping the best of the three rolls. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Unbelievable Luck [Luck]
The powers of fortune truly smile on you more than most mortals.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Any luck feat. Benefit: As long as you still have one luck reroll remaining for the day, you do not automatically fail saving throws if you roll a natural 1 on the die. Additionally, as long as you have at least one luck reroll remaining for the day, you gain a +2 luck bonus on whichever of your saves has the lowest base bonus (you pick in the event of a tie). You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Victor’s Luck [Luck]
You strike with devastating accuracy more often.
Spoiler
Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll a critical threat confirmation roll. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURES
Arcane Stunt
A daring outlaw with 1 rank in Knowledge (arcana) can sacrifice his Canny Combatant class feature to obtain the Arcant Stunt alternate class feature (Complete Mage 32).
Spell Reflection
A daring outlaw with 1 rank in Knowledge (arcana) can sacrifice his Evasion class feature to obtain the Spell Reflection alternate class feature. (Complete Mage 35).
Spell Sense
A daring outlaw with 1 rank in Knowledge (arcana) can sacrifice his Trap Sense class feature to obtain the Spell Sense alternate class feature. (Complete Mage 35).
Hmmm...I like this! But you still don't have much of a capstone, just more progression of lower level abilities. Is there a capstone that you can think of?
Can't use sneak attack with guns or ranged weapons of any kind that aren't thrown daggers. Is this intentional?
Given that your two quoted "daring outlaws" both were known for their clever and skillful use of guns (or blasters, in Han's case), seems an odd choice to prevent people from actually being Han or Jack.
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by... someone! I've forgotten in the years, sorry! Please, let me know so I can credit you!
Sneak attack. It defines the 3.5 rogue, but is also his Achilles heel: half of the monsters he'll face are immune to it, and all sorts of precision damage, sidelining the rogue far too often for the class to be playable. the daring oultaw assumes a major change in the operating rules of the game: only oozes and swarms are immune to critical hits and precision damage; all other creature types have weaknesses to exploit, even if they're different than the weaknesses of most living, flesh-and-blood creatures. Embrace this change, and precision-based strikers will prosper. Cling to the old way, and precision damage is subpar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKTrickster
Hmmm...I like this! But you still don't have much of a capstone, just more progression of lower level abilities. Is there a capstone that you can think of?
There are existing means to subvert precision immunity...Truedeath Crystals and the like; however, there really is not Capstone to speak of...so to address both points...
Razing Strike (Ex):At level 6, a Daring Outlaw can strike at the vulnerabilities in stonework including jointwork, stabilizing columns or even binding agents, allowing them to deal limited damage to constructs with precision attacks. This same ability allows the Daring Outlaw to harm corporeal undead similarly, by striking at connecting joints or by striking at the soft, decomposed flesh of her target. The Daring Outlaw adds one point of precision damage per sneak attack die to any sneak attack, and half of her precision damage from Insightful Strike to all attacks against undead and constructs.
Explosive Strike (Ex): At level 13, a Daring Outlaw can create burst of concussive force when striking the target. This allows the Daring Outlaw to add half of her sneak attack dice against any construct or undead. This replaces the single point of precision damage per die granted by Razing Strike.
Calamitous Strike (Ex:) At level 20, a Daring Outlaws strikes create more powerful bursts of concussive force that can rend flesh, stone, and plant matter alike. The Daring Outlaw can ignore up to 10 points of hardness on all attacks against objects, adds half of her sneak attack dice to sneak attacks against any creature normally immune to precision damage, and adds all of her precision damage from Insightful Strike against any target.
You now have a meaningful Capstone, while feats and equipment that grant the Outlaw the ability to overcome precision immunity are not eclipsed in their entirety. This method also preserves little bit of precious WBL while keeping the rogue from being impotent throughout her career. The ability to ignore hardness up to 10 at level 20 also contributes nicely to the "No bars can hold me." flavor. Adamantine cages notwithstanding.
Last edited by Gullintanni : 02-22-2011 at 12:43 PM.
__________________ Working on finals, to be immediately followed by a trip abroad this summer. Will be back to posting on June 12th. Apologies for inconveniences in the meantime.
I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primal Fury
okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
@ Realms: I would say a strong 4 or weak 3, depending on how much you think the access to rerolls is really worth. Something that competed more equitably with factotum, bard, beguiler, and the revised monk linked in my sig.
On sneak attack: I'm actually pretty comfortable with sweeping immunity to precision damage into the dustbin of history. It's bad enough that concealment renders a creature immune to sneak attack (I considered dropping that too). Earlier editions of the game did not see the need to render the thief impotent against half of his opponents, and I think it's a better move for game balance to move back to that situation. A DM who wants to give daring outlaw players a special challenge can either use oozes or swarms, or use darkness, fog, invisibility, blindness, or various class features to grant his monsters concealment. Daring outlaws who want to equip special gear to make their sneak attack more reliable can still get in the game by using items that negate concealment, such as goggles of night or bracers of true strike.
On Ranged Sneak Attack: The daring outlaw can sneak attack with any light weapon or any one-handed piercing weapon. Pistols and light crossbows are either light weapons or one-handed piercing weapons, aren't they? Javelins, darts, shuriken, and halfspears are likewise all light weapons or one-handed piercing weapons. If the daring outlaw happens to be proficient with martial weapons, he adds light martial throwing weapons to the list of his ranged sneak attack options.
On Capstones: That's a good idea. Lemme think what I can come up with. It ought to be something luck-related, to reinforce the theme of the class. Maybe the ability to expend a use of Lucky to turn a roll into a natural 20 once per encounter.
On Ranged Sneak Attack: The daring outlaw can sneak attack with any light weapon or any one-handed piercing weapon. Pistols and light crossbows are either light weapons or one-handed piercing weapons, aren't they? Javelins, darts, shuriken, and halfspears are likewise all light weapons or one-handed piercing weapons. If the daring outlaw happens to be proficient with martial weapons, he adds light martial throwing weapons to the list of his ranged sneak attack options.
Actually, here's a fun, little-known, fact: ranged weaponry such as guns and bows do not fit into the category system of "light, one-handed, two-handed", instead occupying the "ranged" category. Since you make no provision for such, by default, they don't count.
Of course, this is purely mechanically. I was fairly sure you did intend it to work, but felt I should draw this to your attention. You may wish to make a note for firearms and crossbows, to avoid confusion (and more definition can't hurt anyways).
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by... someone! I've forgotten in the years, sorry! Please, let me know so I can credit you!
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Playtest results have shown that the new trap sense ability makes the daring outlaw essentially immune to traps. In response, I'm slightly nerfing the ability to adjust.
Edit: Added two new ambush feats and revamped many others.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
I got redirected to this link after looking at some posts in the looking for games section
In general, I'm very impressed with the class. Right now I feel you are definitely above tier 4 (this class is superior in every way to most tier 4, even combining some together). I think overall it'd make a solid tier 3. But, right now, it is a bit OP at the lower levels (in my opinion)
Let me explain this a bit further. Consider your class at lvl1
- You are one of the characters with most success to hit (thanks to weapon finesse)
- you can tank better than most tanks (since you are at your best with light armors, the only thing available at the beginning of the game)
- you have 40+ skill points (completely making every other character's starting skills almost irrelevant)
Compare to, for example, a Psychic warrior, who gets
- Same HD
- worse to hit
- worse armor
- more MAD (since you can dump CHA, then WIS, then STR, while they can only dump CHA before taking hits to their overall effectiveness)
- Ridiculously lower SP
At this point, a PW only knows 1 power and has only 1 or 2 pp (5-7 at most, using feats and races). that means they usually get to manifest once or twice. You have your reroll ability, which is arguably better than even most lvl 3 PW powers, and that has synergy with luck feats
A similar comparison could be drawn to the Duskblade, (though I admit, in this case is a bit closer), who gets
- same HD
- Either worse to hit (if they choose to go for DEX and have AC) or worse AC (if they have to spread between STR and DEX)
- Assuming same INT, you get 32SP more
- You reroll ability is way better than the spells they get (and, if you consider the spell that allows them to do +1d6 damage, you already have this powered up sneak attack)
I haven't done the math, so I'm not sure. But I get the impression that this trend would remain for the first 3-4 levels (before the PW starts getting lvl 2 powers and the duskblade has a couple more lvl 2 spells)
My suggestions would be
-drop SP to 8+INT. If you must, give a couple skill focus to the key class abilities (or drop to 6+INT and then give more of them)
- Make the reroll ability be at first for natural 1, power it up later
- Don't give all those abilities for ability damage (I didn't get into it, but to me it seems really OP that you can start dealing so much STR and CON damage with crits when you are making a class that is designed to use the 18-20 range type of weapon)
- maybe drop to d6, to give a bit more of a priority to CON when making the character (could be compensated by giving extra hp later)
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Added Stroke of Luck, a new special ability option for high-level swashbucklers.
I think you raise a valid concern about power balance in low-level play, although it's curious that you think the duskblade is a better match than the psychic warrior, because psywar is generally considered a more effective class than duskblade.
Unfortunately, I'm not very knowledgeable about psychic warriors, and we haven't done any playtesting with the daring outlaw at 1st level, so I can't really speak to the concern. I would agree, however, that the psychic warrior is handicapped by too few skill points and too few power points to do its job effectively.
Based on my experience playing rogues (and DMing for players of rogues), I've observed several key weaknesses in the rogue class that the daring outlaw attempts to fix.
Rogues have weak defenses that make it hard to participate in combat without getting clobbered.
Rogues have terrible accuracy with melee weapons at low levels.
Rogues are expected to cover such a broad range of skills for their party that they're strapped for skill points despite gaining more than any other class. (This is partly the fault of the skill system, which breaks up some skills into extremely narrow areas of proficiency, as with Open Locks/Disable Device, Hide/Move Silently, Listen/Spot, Escape Artist/Rope Use).
All of these issues need to be addressed to make the rogue more effective, because unlike other fragile characters who are inept in a fight, a rogue can't whip out a grease or sleep or even a charm person to turn a battle around.
Probably the best solution is some low-level playtesting to find out exactly where the balance lands. I'll see if I can't interest my playgroup in a low-level canned module.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiriku
I think you raise a valid concern about power balance in low-level play, although it's curious that you think the duskblade is a better match than the psychic warrior, because psywar is generally considered a more effective class than duskblade.
Unfortunately, I'm not very knowledgeable about psychic warriors, and we haven't done any playtesting with the daring outlaw at 1st level, so I can't really speak to the concern. I would agree, however, that the psychic warrior is handicapped by too few skill points and too few power points to do its job effectively.
I completely agree that PsiWar are better than Duskblades in general, but not at lvls 1-4, before they have enough ppts and psi-feats to actually use their powers
Quote:
Based on my experience playing rogues (and DMing for players of rogues), I've observed several key weaknesses in the rogue class that the daring outlaw attempts to fix.
Rogues have weak defenses that make it hard to participate in combat without getting clobbered.
Rogues have terrible accuracy with melee weapons at low levels.
Rogues are expected to cover such a broad range of skills for their party that they're strapped for skill points despite gaining more than any other class. (This is partly the fault of the skill system, which breaks up some skills into extremely narrow areas of proficiency, as with Open Locks/Disable Device, Hide/Move Silently, Listen/Spot, Escape Artist/Rope Use).
All of these issues need to be addressed to make the rogue more effective, because unlike other fragile characters who are inept in a fight, a rogue can't whip out a grease or sleep or even a charm person to turn a battle around.
I totally agree with what you're saying. I was just pointing out that, if you are fixing ALL of those points (which you do), you end up with a good tier 3 for sure, not a high-tier 4. If that's what you were going for, I think you really nailed it
Quote:
Probably the best solution is some low-level playtesting to find out exactly where the balance lands. I'll see if I can't interest my playgroup in a low-level canned module.
That seems like the best idea.
Once again, I really think that you have a really cool class that has a lot going for it, both fluff and crunch wise. I love melee and I like it when they get some love. I'd definitely play this in a homebrew-friendly game.
I was trying to give constructive criticism, for I'd fear that if someone tries to play this in a campaign that starts at level 1 with other players in tier 3-4, the difference in power would be enough to upset the other players, killing a fantastic idea before it has a chance to shine
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drothmal
I was trying to give constructive criticism, for I'd fear that if someone tries to play this in a campaign that starts at level 1 with other players in tier 3-4, the difference in power would be enough to upset the other players, killing a fantastic idea before it has a chance to shine
I can definitely see what you mean. There's a lot of very bad D&D homebrew on the 'net, and for that reason many DMs are very leery of accepting homebrew and very quick to judge it. If the class comes across as overpowered at level 1, it may get vetoed immediately.
I am considering that I might reduce the base attack bonus to the Medium progression and grant +Int to hit at 5th level.
Edit: Finally added design notes to the class introduction. Long overdue.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
I love this class!
Myself and a couple friends are starting up a small homebrew game with only three players available so they were really relying on me to be the skill-monkey but having some extra fire-power was going to be important as well, so I was naturally looking at the Swashbuckler/Rogue multi-class but then I started running into the problem that I always have with 3.5 and that with the character starting to get spread across far to many classes for my liking, as I was also planning on incorporating some Arcane magic into the character since both of the other players are spiritual. This really addresses the weaknesses of those classes on their own and I agree that it fixes some moderately useless feats and abilities.
That said, it's been years since I've played 3.5 and of course the game has only gotten more complex since I've last really looked at it.
My basic plans for my original concept was an elven rogue/swashbuckler type of character with a dip into wizard to add the arcane elements into our party but, since we're starting at level 1, it was really struggling to find a way to be relevant in the party early on. Your Daring Outlaw perfectly captures the melee aspect and skill monkey aspect I was looking for and makes my life a whole lot easier.
As I've talked with the two other players and the DM, it looks like we'll be playing a real gritty party of mercenary/sellsword types (if you've read Song of Ice and Fire, think of some of the nastier sellsword groups) which lead me to go ahead and choose a Grey Elf as my player race, so basically I've turned strength and constitution into my dump stats. Precision will be 100% of his game when it comes to a weapon (I know you did this for balance reasons but I was hoping to cheese it up with a chain blade, now I'm looking at TWF).
If you're interested in looking, my rolled post-racial stats end up being:
Spoiler
Str - 10
Dex - 17
Con - 10
Int - 17
Wis - 13
Cha - 13
I was wondering if you had any archetype builds from your testing or if there were any places that perhaps had some discussion about this or, do you have any good idea for synergies with a wizard MC who relies exclusively on dex/int for power? Because our party is so small our DM is fine with letting us use just about any gimmick we can find to bring more power and versatility. Obviously my character still reduces himself to a bit of a glass cannon but he's much better off than before. Considering I just realized I'll have 52 skill points at first level, that's another huge can of worms to try and wrap my head around.
As I said before, I love this class and the DM signed off on it 100%. Any advice for level progression with an INT/DEX based sneak attacker who does occasional dips into wizard?
(P.S. I really like the luck factor and to add to your "better lucky than good" quote, a favorite of mine is, "The harder you train, the luckier you get." -- Renzo Gracie after getting knocked out by what most people say was a lucky punch)
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Those look like great stats for a daring outlaw. Building a daring outlaw usually comes down to "Int, Dex, or Cha -- pick any two!". Int supports the classic skillmonkey role and makes you tricky and dangerous in combat. Dex plays into being a good scout and trapfinder, and is also useful for combat. Cha emphasizes the importance of luck and social interaction, and rewards you for using teamwork in combat. With a solid Int/Dex build, you'll be full of tricks and tactics, able to contribute effectively in combat, and skillful enough to use lateral thinking to bend your abilities to assist in almost any situation outside of combat.
As you build your character, keep in mind that as a rogue/swashbuckler fusion, the daring outlaw is eligible for many rogue or swashbuckler ACFs. It's not a bad idea to look through the rogue handbook and swashbuckler handbook just to see if there are any good ideas or ACFs that support your character concept. Remember, though, if the DM is following my suggestion and rolling back immunity to critical hits and precision damage, then you won't need to worry much about all the ACFs intended to broaden the usefulness of sneak attack.
As far as builds go, you can't go wrong with a daring outlaw/beguiler/unseen seer progression. The best break points for leaving daring outlaw at low levels would be 1st (getting sneak attack, trapfinding and Weapon Finesse), 5th (Insightful Strike and more sneak attack), or 7th (for riposte). If you stay in DO past 7th level, there's really not much point in multiclassing unless you're dipping. For my advanced learning at Unseen Seer 2, I like to take hunter's eye, which improves your sneak attack. It's especially potent when combined with Practiced Spellcaster to get your caster level up.
I have some builds I used, although they're monstrous opponents, by and large. Let me fish them up. Bear in mind that these are built using my campaign's house rules, so some of the names and numbers may seem odd to you.
Edit: Found one.
Spoiler
Comments: this is a typical "city thief", a wererat with 5 levels of daring outlaw. Its intentionally built with low hp to serve as a glass-cannon "mook" opponent in larger battles. Note that I swapped trap sense for spell sense (a rogue ACF),
DEFENSE AC 22, touch 16, flat-footed 22 (+4 Dex, +4 armor, +2 natural armor, +2 luck) Hp 35 (5d8-5 plus 1d8 plus 8) Fort +6, Ref +11, Will +6 Special Defenses evasion, spell sense +1, uncanny dodge
OFFENSE Speed 30 ft Melee rapier +10 (1d6+2/18-20 plus poison) or Ranged light crossbow +10 (1d8+2 plus poison/19-20) Space 5 ft; Reach 5 ft Special Attacks apply poison, canny combatant +2, goodbye kiss, knowledge devotion (+2 to attack and damage vs. humanoids), poison (goodbye kiss), sneak attack +3d6, venomous strike
STATISTICS Str 10, Dex 18, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 14 Base Atk +5; Grp +7 Skills Balance +13, Bluff +10, Climb +7, Disable Device +11, Gather Information +12, Hide +11, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (local) +10, Move Silently +11, Search +10, Sleight of Hand +13, Spot +10, Tumble +11 Racial Modifiers Swim +8 Feats Improved Initiative, Iron Will (B), Knowledge Devotion, Master of Poisons, Venomous Strike, Weapon Finesse (B) Equipment 10 doses of goodbye kiss, mithril chain shirt, mwk light crossbow, mwk rapier, 2 potions of gaseous form, 2 potions of invisibility Special Qualities lucky 2/day
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Alternate form (Ex): May assume a bipedal hybrid form or the form of a dire rat. Apply Poison: Swift action apply poison to their weapons. No chance of poisoning self. Canny Combatant (Ex): Adds +2 to all opposed combat maneuvers and opposed skill checks in combat. Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Bite transmits lycanthropy to humanoids and giants (Fort negates, DC 15). Evasion (Ex): On a successful Reflex save, take no damage from effects that would deal half damage. Filth Fever (Ex): Bite transmits disease. Fort DC 10, incubation 1d3 days, damage 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con. Goodbye Kiss: Injury poison; Fort DC 15, exhausted/exhausted*. Duration 1 hours. Victims exhausted twice are unconscious. The poison is created through a minor creation spell and will vanish at dawn. Lucky (Ex): Reroll an attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check 2/day with an extra +2 bonus. Rat empathy (Ex): Communicate with rats and dire rats, at +4 on all Charisma-based checks. Spell Sense (Su): Gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against ranged touch attacks from spells. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Retain Dexterity bonus to AC when flat-footed. Venomous Strike: Can sacrifice one die of sneak attack damage to add +2 to the DC of the poison on their weapons.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Very cool and thanks!
Beguiler would be, roleplay-wise, a great addition to my character because he's going to be the "face" of the party because the other players are a Dwarf and a Half-Orc. I had already set him up to be a bit of a con-artist . . . so that blends right in. I'll also definitely give Unseen Seer a look.
Anyhow, thanks for all your hard work, not only with the homebrew but for the suggestions!
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
@ Channingman: Compared to a rogue 3/swashbuckler 17 with the Daring Outlaw feat (CS 76), it has
Daring Outlaw
Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17
+20 bab
+19 bab
+10d6 sneak attack
+10d6 sneak attack
Avg 93 hp
avg 106 hp
Fort +12
Fort +11
Ref +12
Ref +12
Will +6
Will +6
So essentially the chassis trades a 5-8% improvement in both base attack and Fort saves for a 10-12% reduction in hp from hit dice. To my eye, there is nothing mechanically broken here. What are your thoughts on the matter?
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
There are other things to consider. For example, Rogue 3/Swash 17 gets 76 base skill points with the higher level skill points coming from the swashbuckler list, while this class gets 230 base skill points with one list which is better than Swash's list. Rogue3/Swash 17 gets Insightful Strike, Weakening Critical, Slippery Mind, and a bunch of mediocre to useless class features. Daring Outlaw gets rogue special abilities and other handy class features.
Whether or not this is a balanced class depends on the campaign it is used in, but it is significantly better than Rogue/Swashbuckler.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
I read through the class and I really like it. I haven't looked through all of the feats yet.
My one minor nitpick would be good fortitude save.
Quote:
These saves measure your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and health. Apply your Constitution modifier to your Fortitude saving throws.
I always pictured swashbucklery classes to be quick, agile, but not able to take physical punishment or have the vitality of a brutish foot soldier. WOTC's Swashbuckler has a good Fort save, true, but they also have poor Reflex. On a swashbuckler. It just seems.. Odd.
EDIT: Maybe swashbucklers = drunken pirates? Not nimble, but can take a mug o' beer to the head and still be all yohoho let's rape and pillage?
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
So yeah, after looking at those suggestions I think what I'm going to target for (and we're starting at lvl1 so this is a long term plan) is multiclass Daring Outlaw with Beguiler and then move to Unseen Seer at around 5th or 7th level of Daring Outlaw, all the while doing some occasional dips into wizard since that's my racial preference. What that'll allow me to do is ditch my familiar for Abrupt Jaunt ACF (INT Bonus per day of a ten foot teleport).
Just a question. . . is there anything about that idea that screams, "NO!" to you?
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimbur
There are other things to consider. For example, Rogue 3/Swash 17 gets 76 base skill points with the higher level skill points coming from the swashbuckler list, while this class gets 230 base skill points with one list which is better than Swash's list. Rogue3/Swash 17 gets Insightful Strike, Weakening Critical, Slippery Mind, and a bunch of mediocre to useless class features. Daring Outlaw gets rogue special abilities and other handy class features.
Whether or not this is a balanced class depends on the campaign it is used in, but it is significantly better than Rogue/Swashbuckler.
Just curious, do you think it's overpowered or simply better than the rogue/swashbuckler? Everything I've read is that both of those classes and including the multiclass still come off and pretty lackluster.
Our DM, as mentioned, doesn't mind us getting crafty with exploits as long as we don't break anything, because it's a very small group trying to cover a lot of aspects and because we're all close friends who aren't going to try and ruin things for each other by being OP.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimbur
Whether or not this is a balanced class depends on the campaign it is used in, but it is significantly better than Rogue/Swashbuckler.
Yes, absolutely!
The Daring Outlaw feat makes rogue/swashbuckler sorta workable, but it's still a rough patch on a clunky pair of classes with major design flaws. The daring outlaw class, OTOH, is a smooth synergy of the design potentials of both classes, and incorporates lessons learned by the community from the years of gameplay that occurred after both rogue and swashbuckler were written. It is significantly better. From a game balance perspective, the daring outlaw aims to fill a strong tier 4 to solid tier 3 design space, depending on how skillfully the player takes advantage of the available options. It is comparable in effectiveness to a swordsage, factotum, or perhaps even a bard. It renders rogue and swashbuckler completely obsolete. However, it is much less effective than a beguiler, or a stealth-focused druid, cloistered cleric, or illusionist wizard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lictor of Thrax
So yeah, after looking at those suggestions I think what I'm going to target for (and we're starting at lvl1 so this is a long term plan) is multiclass Daring Outlaw with Beguiler and then move to Unseen Seer at around 5th or 7th level of Daring Outlaw, all the while doing some occasional dips into wizard since that's my racial preference. What that'll allow me to do is ditch my familiar for Abrupt Jaunt ACF (INT Bonus per day of a ten foot teleport).
Just a question. . . is there anything about that idea that screams, "NO!" to you?
I'd suggest avoiding wizard, since wizzie casting won't stack with your beguiler casting, and because you can't cast your wizard spells in armor without ASF. However, a 1-level dip in wizard might be worth it just to snare abrupt jaunt, Scribe Scroll, and the ability to use wizard scrolls and wands without a UMD check. (Remember, you don't have to know a spell to scribe it onto a scroll, you just need to have someone with you who knows the spell. So if one of the other guys in your party casts arcane spells, or you hire a friendly NPC to cast the spell for you, you can scribe a scroll of most any spell.) Be sure that for your wizard spells, you choose spells that you can cast outside of combat, when its no hardship to spend a couple minutes removing your armor, casting the spell, and putting your armor back on. Alternately, invest in a feycrafted thistledown mithril chain shirt, which has a 0% ASF and will only set you back 1,850 gp.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lictor of Thrax
Just curious, do you think it's overpowered or simply better than the rogue/swashbuckler? Everything I've read is that both of those classes and including the multiclass still come off and pretty lackluster.
Our DM, as mentioned, doesn't mind us getting crafty with exploits as long as we don't break anything, because it's a very small group trying to cover a lot of aspects and because we're all close friends who aren't going to try and ruin things for each other by being OP.
As pointed out, "overpowered" is a relative term. Pun-Pun is completely balanced in a group of equal power level and inside a campaign that can handle them. In games that I play in, your standard Daring Outlaw would be putting out the best damage in the group just on 19 BAB and +10d6 SA alone. Find what's balanced in your group and that's all that really matters.
Personally, what I care the most is for classes that are fun. I would never play WOTC's Daring Outlaw even if it was balanced in my group. I find the class incredibly boring with a lack of options. I would play jiriku's version because it has variety. Now, variety in itself is powerful, but you can always tweak the crunch to find a suitable balance point that you're happy with.
Example:
All Bob can do is swing his sword against an enemy. Joe can swing his sword, do a spinning bird kick that dazes opponents in a radius, punch casters in the throat to silence them, and verbally convince opponents to kill themselves. Joe and Bob are in the same group, so you might be concerned that Bob will feel crappy. You could just make Joe's 4 options 75% effective to Bob's 100% effective 1 option and call it a day for relative "balance." Actual numbers subject to change, but you get the drift, right?
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiriku
I'd suggest avoiding wizard, since wizzie casting won't stack with your beguiler casting, and because you can't cast your wizard spells in armor without ASF. However, a 1-level dip in wizard might be worth it just to snare abrupt jaunt, Scribe Scroll, and the ability to use wizard scrolls and wands without a UMD check. (Remember, you don't have to know a spell to scribe it onto a scroll, you just need to have someone with you who knows the spell. So if one of the other guys in your party casts arcane spells, or you hire a friendly NPC to cast the spell for you, you can scribe a scroll of most any spell.) Be sure that for your wizard spells, you choose spells that you can cast outside of combat, when its no hardship to spend a couple minutes removing your armor, casting the spell, and putting your armor back on. Alternately, invest in a feycrafted thistledown mithril chain shirt, which has a 0% ASF and will only set you back 1,850 gp.
Noted, thanks again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralnu
Personally, what I care the most is for classes that are fun. I would never play WOTC's Daring Outlaw even if it was balanced in my group. I find the class incredibly boring with a lack of options. I would play jiriku's version because it has variety. Now, variety in itself is powerful, but you can always tweak the crunch to find a suitable balance point that you're happy with.
Agreed. Part of why this class really appeals to me is
1) Personally I think it fills a gap that should have been covered by WotC. I was looking for ways to make a certain style of character and it was going to take so much multi-classing that, eventually, I simply just am not that adept with the mechanics (some CharOpers frighten me with the crazy stuff they think of.).
2) It really works for my party which is a zonky, all over the place sort of party. We have a half-orc cleric, a dwarven dragon shaman/fighter and then my character. . . so variety was very important to sort of fill in some gaps and I'm one of those players that will take a lot of options, even if I could use them to be OP, and focus instead on making the character more interesting and entertaining. That said, if there were a legitimate balance issue I'd talk to my DM about it to make sure that he didn't feel like I snuck one by him or something.
Re: [3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralnu
Example:
All Bob can do is swing his sword against an enemy. Joe can swing his sword, do a spinning bird kick that dazes opponents in a radius, punch casters in the throat to silence them, and verbally convince opponents to kill themselves. Joe and Bob are in the same group, so you might be concerned that Bob will feel crappy. You could just make Joe's 4 options 75% effective to Bob's 100% effective 1 option and call it a day for relative "balance." Actual numbers subject to change, but you get the drift, right?
Re: [3.5] Rogue Remix: Ambush Feats and Luck Feats
[quote=jiriku;10415898] BLINDING STRIKE [Ambush]
Your stealthy attack leaves your foe’s head ringing.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +2d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack causes the target to be blinded for 3 rounds per sneak attack die that you forfeit. Special: If you forfeit three sneak attack dice when using this feat, the target is blinded permanently (although the blindness can still be healed by spells such as remove blindness).
I think this is too strong. Would recommend a Fort Save or be blinded.
Quote:
CONCUSSION ATTACK [Ambush]
Your attacks can damage your opponent’s ability to think clearly.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +3d6. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack imposes a –2 penalty per two dice of sneak attack you forfeit, applied to the target’s mental ability checks, mental skill checks, and spell save DCs, for 10 rounds. If you use this feat a second time on a target before 10 rounds have elapsed, the effects overlap but do not stack. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 2d6 per -2 penalty you choose to inflict.
Hmmm. I think this is a little weak but might be too good as 1d6 sacrifice, dunno.
Quote:
ELDRITCH EROSION [Ambush]
Your attack can weaken your foe’s resistance to magic.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +4d6, Knowledge (arcana) 1 rank. Benefit: Your successful sneak attack gives the target a -3 penalty on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and psionic powers, and a -5 penalty to its spell resistance and power resistance (minimum 0) per three sneak attack dice that you forfeit for 10 rounds.
Looks a little weak. I'd bump it to -5/-10.
Quote:
HAMSTRING [Ambush]
You can wound your opponents' legs, hampering their movement.
Spoiler
Prerequisite: Sneak attack +3d6, base attack bonus +4. Benefit: If you hit with a sneak attack, you may forfeit two dice of sneak attack to reduce one of your opponent’s speeds by half (such as flying, swimming, etc.). This speed reduction ends after 24 hours have passed or a successful DC 15 Heal check or the application of any cure spell or other magical healing is made. Creature that do not rely on limbs to move, or that have more than four locomotive limbs, can’t be slowed down with a hamstring attack. It takes two successful hamstring attacks to affect quadrupeds. Special: Using this feat reduces your sneak attack damage by 2d6 per -2 penalty you choose to inflict.
What -2 penalty?
Quote:
Healer’s Luck [Luck]
Your spells can heal more damage.
Spoiler
Benefit: You can expend one luck reroll as a swift action to reroll the number of points of damage healed by a conjuration (healing) spell you have just cast on your current turn and keep the better result. You gain two luck rerolls per day.
Make it also let you reroll heals casted on you by someone else too.
The rest looks good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiriku
Or you could point Bob towards my fighter remix.
My point is that being able to do lots of things can be cranked up or tone down just by fiddling with the numbers to achieve balance.
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[3.5] Rogue + Swashbuckler Remix: The Daring Outlaw
