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Old 02-23-2011, 08:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Jarian
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Default [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Mesmer


"Oooh, what a delightfully innocent mind you have! But everyone has nightmares somewhere, my dear; let's see what yours are."
- Anya Silvertongue, Human Mesmer

Class Skills
The Mesmer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha)
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

Alignment: Any.

Hit Dice: d6

LevelBABFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecialPrimary Path Rank Secondary Paths Rank
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Path of the Mesmer 2 1
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Elite Skill 3 1
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 3 2
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 2
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Fast Casting 1 42
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 3
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 5 3
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Elite Skill 6 3
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 6 4
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Fast Casting 2 74
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 7 4
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 8 5
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 8 5
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Elite Skill 9 5
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Fast Casting 3 9 6
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 10 6
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 10 6
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 11 7
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 11 7
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Elite Skill, Fast Casting 4 127

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mesmers are proficient with all simple weapons. Mesmers are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Despite the fact that her abilities are not truly spells, a Mesmer suffers the full effects of Arcane Spell Failure when using any of her abilities.

Energy: A Mesmer has a small pool of constantly-refilling arcane power, known simply as Energy. This pool consists of 40 points, which are depleted as the Mesmer uses her skills. At the start of each of her turns, the Mesmer gains 4 Energy. If the Mesmer wears armor, she gains less energy according to the category of armor worn: Light armor reduces Energy regained by 1, Medium by 2, and Heavy or Exotic by 3.

Mesmer Skills: A Mesmer uses a set of Skills - abilities unique to the Mesmer class. Mesmer Skills are always spell-like abilties with an arcane spell level equal to 1 (this effective spell level increases by 1 at 3rd level and every 2 levels thereafter, to a maximum of 9th at 17th level), and a caster level equal to the Mesmer's class level, unless otherwise noted in their description. At the start of each day, a Mesmer chooses a set of eight different abilities, and may use any of them that are currently available by paying the appropriate Energy cost. A Mesmer may change which eight Skills are available to her by meditating for five minutes.

A Mesmer begins play with eight Skills of her choice, and learns a new skill at each level thereafter. Certain Mesmer Skills have prerequisites that must be met before selecting them, such as access to a certain Skill or a certain Rank in her primary path.

Unless otherwise noted, a Mesmer Skill allows for spell resistance, and has a saving throw of 10+1/2 Mesmer level+Charisma modifier.

A Mesmer may use Skills with an activation time of a swift or immediate action while activating Skills that have a 1 round or longer activation time without disrupting her casting.

Elite Skills: At second level, and again every six levels thereafter, the Mesmer chooses a single Elite Skill to be added to her repertoire. Elite Skills are powerful abilities that may not be selected as ordinary Skills, and generally provide a stronger effect than a normal Skill. Even if a Mesmer knows more than one Elite Skill, she may only prepare a single Elite Skill as one of the eight available to her at a given time.

Elite Skills known are in addition to other Skills known.

Path of the Mesmer: While all Mesmers have the potential to access any Mesmer skill, what truly defines an individual is their choice of path. At first level, a Mesmer chooses one of the three paths available to her: Domination, Illusion, or Inspiration. Skills from this path progress their ranks along the primary path, as indicated on the table above. Skills from the other two paths progress their ranks along the secondary path.

Fast Casting: To a Mesmer, the restrictions placed upon others are her playthings. At 5th level, and again at every five levels thereafter, a Mesmer decreases the activation time of all of her Skills by one step, to a minimum of an immediate action. A skill that may be used as a free action is unaffected by this ability. A Mesmer may always choose to activate an ability at its original activation time or any other time between the normal and the minimum casting times.



Multiclass Mesmers: The Mesmer adds one half her level in other classes to her effective Mesmer level for determining Path progression, but no other benefit of a Mesmer level, such as increased caster or effective caster level. If the Mesmer multiclasses into another class that uses an Energy system and a Skill system similar to her own, the restrictions of both apply, and she may still only have a total of eight Skills readied, regardless of the class they come from.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:57 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Mesmer Skills

Path of Domination
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Path of Illusion
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:59 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Path of Inspiration
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:01 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

A note on arcane damage:
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A note on lost spell levels:
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Signets and Mantras:
Spoiler


What the Mesmer is intended to be:
Spoiler


What the Mesmer is not:
Spoiler


---

Finally done.

Here it is, the first in a series of Guild Wars inspired base classes. The Mesmer punishes mistakes more than any existing class, exploiting weaknesses and forcing difficult decisions. While not a true spellcaster in the normal sense, the Mesmer bears many similarities to existing arcane spellcasters.

Critiques and comments please.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Qwertystop
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

The Domination path doesn't seem to fit what I think it sounds like, which is controlling the opponent. It's mostly various different ways to do damage. Actually, the class as a whole sounds like mind control, or at least mind-messing-with, but none of the paths seem to fit that.
Domination is mostly direct damage.
Inspiration is mostly debuffs (not really fitting the name Inspiration) and energy-recovering.
Illusion is also mostly debuffs, and many which are called "Illusion of ___" are not very illusionary. For example, Illusion of Weakness just lowers your health, but gives it back automatically if it ever gets low enough to matter, and Illusion of Haste just moves some of your next round's speed to this round - not an illusion, just sprinting, then getting tired.
Also, several different paths have what are just variations on Dispel Magic.
Finally, Conjure Phantasm and Conjure Nightmare are very similar, and I do not believe the bonus of 1 damage per point of Charisma bonus is enough to justify spending a skill on, especially since, even by level 20, you'll only have 27 known total.

Sorry if I seemed overly critical.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by master256 View Post
The Domination path doesn't seem to fit what I think it sounds like, which is controlling the opponent. It's mostly various different ways to do damage. Actually, the class as a whole sounds like mind control, or at least mind-messing-with, but none of the paths seem to fit that.
Domination is mostly direct damage.
Inspiration is mostly debuffs (not really fitting the name Inspiration) and energy-recovering.
Illusion is also mostly debuffs, and many which are called "Illusion of ___" are not very illusionary. For example, Illusion of Weakness just lowers your health, but gives it back automatically if it ever gets low enough to matter, and Illusion of Haste just moves some of your next round's speed to this round - not an illusion, just sprinting, then getting tired.
I can't help what the game designers decided to name their different schools of magic. I'm just translating them. While I agree with you, I'm also trying to preserve as much of the original flavor as possible.

Though I do disagree with Domination not controlling the opponent. Forcing it to restrict its actions or take damage, stealing its actions from it, and interrupting many of its actions is pretty much the definition of control.

Quote:
Also, several different paths have what are just variations on Dispel Magic.
I don't know about you, but I would call using a dispel check to remove an effect and deal damage, a dispel check to remove an effect and heal yourself, a dispel check to remove an effect and allow you to cast that spell yourself, and a dispel check to steal an attack to be very different. Opinions may vary.

Quote:
Finally, Conjure Phantasm and Conjure Nightmare are very similar, and I do not believe the bonus of 1 damage per point of Charisma bonus is enough to justify spending a skill on, especially since, even by level 20, you'll only have 27 known total.
Conjure Phantasm was mistakenly listed with a cost of 15 energy, rather than 10.

Also, consider that the two skills would stack with each other for damage.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
Qwertystop
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
I can't help what the game designers decided to name their different schools of magic. I'm just translating them. While I agree with you, I'm also trying to preserve as much of the original flavor as possible.



I don't know about you, but I would call using a dispel check to remove an effect and deal damage, a dispel check to remove an effect and heal yourself, a dispel check to remove an effect and allow you to cast that spell yourself, and a dispel check to steal an attack to be very different. Opinions may vary.
1) Sorry, I didn't realize that you were making this based off of something else.
2) It was the first three that I was objecting to. The attack-stealing is great, the other 3 are just different add-ons (Would use a more polite phrase, but I can't thing of one) to a Dispel Magic.

Since it's made based on something else, and I've never heard of the something else in question, I'll just lurk here from now on, since I don't really know what is really changeable and what isn't.

One last thing, though: The way so many damage amounts are based on rank in the relevant path essentially makes secondary path skills do damage by 1 die/3 caster levels, and Primarys by 1 die/2 caster levels. It seems, in other words, to scale very slowly.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by master256 View Post
One last thing, though: The way so many damage amounts are based on rank in the relevant path essentially makes secondary path skills do damage by 1 die/3 caster levels, and Primarys by 1 die/2 caster levels. It seems, in other words, to scale very slowly.
The slow damage is intentional. The Mesmer can essentially use her Skills all day, and those skills are primarily intended to limit actions, not blast. She is expected to use Use Magic Device to replicate more powerful effects when she needs to lower the boomstick, as it were.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

I think you're trying way too hard to stay close to the game mechanics. Why not make it a normal caster which focuses on Enchantment and Illusion spells?
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

I like it, but I think it could be organized a bit better. Which is to say, I like spell blurbs. Example:

---
Path of Domination

Mesmer Skill Name: Energy Cost - Description

Aneurysum: 5 - Recharge an ally's spellcasting.
Arcane Thievery: 10 - Steal a spell from an opponent's mind, use it yourself.
Backfire: 15 - Target takes damage whenever they cast a spell.
Blackout: 10 - Prevent target from casting spells or using special attacks.
Chaos Storm: 5 - Create a small storm that deals damage and drains spells.
Complicate: 10 - Counterspell, prevent same spell from being cast subseuqently.

Spoiler
---

Another thing that really needs to be done is for the elite skills to be separated from the non-elite skills. They're a completely different list from the non-elite, enough that you get them from a different class feature. At the very least, you should probably note that they're elite in spell blurbs, but I'd suggest actual separation.

As for the actual mechanics of the class, I really like it. It's very unique, right down to filling a unique role. It sort of does what the monk is supposed to be able to do, and does it well.

That said, some of the Mesmer Skills probably need work. I haven't read them all (yet?), but Backfire, at least, is vicious. While it gets a lot more reasonable the higher you get, at the early levels? One failed save can take down a caster at full health. Two passed saves.

Finally, while I'm pretty certain it's not at all what you're going for, and I don't think you *need* to, I'm also going to encourage you to take more liberties with it, even "taking liberties" just entails renaming some of the abilities so they make more sense in a D&D context.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diovid View Post
I think you're trying way too hard to stay close to the game mechanics. Why not make it a normal caster which focuses on Enchantment and Illusion spells?
Because that's called the Beguiler, and not even vaguely what I was going for. At all.

On the other side of the world from the intended target, in fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTedinator View Post
I like it, but I think it could be organized a bit better. Which is to say, I like spell blurbs. Example:
Probably a good idea. I'll get around to it soonish.

Quote:
Another thing that really needs to be done is for the elite skills to be separated from the non-elite skills. They're a completely different list from the non-elite, enough that you get them from a different class feature. At the very least, you should probably note that they're elite in spell blurbs, but I'd suggest actual separation.
Couldn't hurt. Will get around to it.

Quote:
As for the actual mechanics of the class, I really like it. It's very unique, right down to filling a unique role. It sort of does what the monk is supposed to be able to do, and does it well.
Thanks.

Quote:
That said, some of the Mesmer Skills probably need work. I haven't read them all (yet?), but Backfire, at least, is vicious. While it gets a lot more reasonable the higher you get, at the early levels? One failed save can take down a caster at full health. Two passed saves.
That's intentional. At low levels, the Mesmer has to spend 1 round (not a full-round, 1 round, like Summon Monster), targeting a caster within 30 feet of him, who has to stay there. If he gets that off, the caster is still in no way prevented from casting, but it has to take a risk. Cast, and potentially drop, or do nothing? That's the essence of how Backfire is supposed to work. And consider, 2d6 damage is the same as a greatsword with no strength bonus, which can be swung, no save, with a simple attack roll.

Quote:
Finally, while I'm pretty certain it's not at all what you're going for, and I don't think you *need* to, I'm also going to encourage you to take more liberties with it, even "taking liberties" just entails renaming some of the abilities so they make more sense in a D&D context.
Eh.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

...any intent to make a dervish?
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
Jarian
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnOkami View Post
...any intent to make a dervish?
Right after I finish the Ranger, yep.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Mesmer [PEACH!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
That's intentional. At low levels, the Mesmer has to spend 1 round (not a full-round, 1 round, like Summon Monster), targeting a caster within 30 feet of him, who has to stay there. If he gets that off, the caster is still in no way prevented from casting, but it has to take a risk. Cast, and potentially drop, or do nothing? That's the essence of how Backfire is supposed to work. And consider, 2d6 damage is the same as a greatsword with no strength bonus, which can be swung, no save, with a simple attack roll.
Yeah, I hadn't noticed the casting time. Entirely my bad. It's reasonable.
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