Contractual Magic - for an unnamed vote-created setting

[zabbarot]

Created for this particular thread.

So we voted for contract magic, and just recently voted for a homebrewed contract magic class. So first off what comes to mind when you think of contract magic? One of the major things that comes to mind for me is the lore behind the contracts from Changeling. That a fae somewhere created a contract with the air or envy or some other embodied concept, and has extended the benefits to you.

In my mind a contract magic class should be a savvy business man in a way. If what a binder does could be considered making deals, then the contract magician is the cut throat lawyer who's going to take your for all you've got. They should be all about making that Faustian bargain and using loopholes to be sure they get out clean.

So again, I ask, what would you like to see in this class?

[Frathe]

I'd like to see something along the lines of the magicians of the Bartimaeus trilogy, who have no magical power of their own, but invoke spirits and djinns to do their bidding. I'd like a wide range of spirits/concepts that compacts can be made with, so that the class can have a wide variety of theming--anything from Mephistopheles (of the Faust legend) to a Fey patron to the Gods themselves, or even abstract concepts (like the thing you mentioned).

A question--is this the quintessential deal with the devil? That is, do you have to give something up, like your soul, or something of comparable value? You mentioned loopholes, but those don't seem like something to put in on purpose. What we can have is a price for entry.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Originally Posted by Frathe

A question--is this the quintessential deal with the devil? That is, do you have to give something up, like your soul, or something of comparable value? You mentioned loopholes, but those don't seem like something to put in on purpose. What we can have is a price for entry.

Well, Binders who fail their binding check have to act like the being they are channeling. A binder who channels a Djinn who hated the local sun deity and fails their check will be unable to speak with a sun worshiper without insulting them.

It's a pure RP penalty, but the flavor is just what you're looking for, I think.

[Grinner]

If you're looking for inspiration, I've always found Ron Edward's Sorcerer good for this sort of thing. Combine Sorcerer's concepts with Changeling's Contracts (i.e. a tangible price, even if just for RP purposes), and I think it would be fine.

[zabbarot]

Originally Posted by Frathe

I'd like to see something along the lines of the magicians of the Bartimaeus trilogy, who have no magical power of their own, but invoke spirits and djinns to do their bidding. I'd like a wide range of spirits/concepts that compacts can be made with, so that the class can have a wide variety of theming--anything from Mephistopheles (of the Faust legend) to a Fey patron to the Gods themselves, or even abstract concepts (like the thing you mentioned).

To me this sounds a bit similar to what can be accomplished with a planar binding spell or general summoning. Instead of having them do your bidding I was imagining that you basically trade them something for a bit of their power, which I guess at some levels could be their direct intervention, depending on what you were contracting. With enough guile you should be able to trick beings into serving you indefinitely.

Originally Posted by Frathe

A question--is this the quintessential deal with the devil? That is, do you have to give something up, like your soul, or something of comparable value? You mentioned loopholes, but those don't seem like something to put in on purpose. What we can have is a price for entry.

I figure the contracts should be based around trades of equal value, but in general be waited in favor of who you're contracting. Then we could have something similar to the binding check. Higher roll, less penalty. So we've abstracted the loophole bit. If they roll well enough their character managed to negotiate it in a way that they don't pay anything(or significantly less, this will be related to balance.)

Originally Posted by Ninjadeadbeard

Well, Binders who fail their binding check have to act like the being they are channeling. A binder who channels a Djinn who hated the local sun deity and fails their check will be unable to speak with a sun worshiper without insulting them.

It's a pure RP penalty, but the flavor is just what you're looking for, I think.

This is where I figure it should start, and negotiating for more powerful abilities would have higher base prices. These could be all kinds of things, but should fit thematically with what you made the deal with. A devil will ultimately want suffering. So they may require you to commit an evil act as payment, or your soul for something much stronger.

[Vauron]

Something that I think would fit with contractual magic would be the idea of the geis. It'd be an agreement that, if broken, brings ruin upon the one who broke the oath. Meanwhile, keeping to a geis gives you power.

One way of paying contracts should be through service. For instance, Apollo will agree to ensure your rival develops a nasty case of consumption, but you must agree to clear out the den of yeth hounds that have been praying on the herds of a nearby shepherd.

While I have no problem with evil offering easy deals or ones that can be made quickly, the vile should not be the only ones to offer power. It should be entirely possible to contract with a hound archon for the ability to speak in tongues or a water elemental to gain the ability to breath water. Perhaps the darker powers demand less early on, in an effort to make the greater prices seem like just another small step compared to what has already been paid.

[Guigarci]

The "evil wants to be played with" angle can be gotten by having the "vestiges" lend more powerful abilities but with a much higher check DC.

Something that'd be good if going the binder angle is proto-vestiges whose power scales by level. You develop a "celestial" vestige, with a number of modular abilities per x levels and special requirements; ditto for other entities; abd voila you get a large number of entities to bargain with.
The ignore special requirements feat needs to get tossed out: fulfilling the reqs is part of the bargain

[zabbarot]

Here's some ideas I had.

1. Use the cleric domains to make a list of general things contracts can be formed with.
2. Contracts have a base price at a base DC, the price will go up or down with DC.
3. As Vauron said, prices can be services (i.e. good wants good done)
4. Other other possible things could range from something simple like not eating for a day to something really big like giving them your soul.
5. Some contracts will have prerequisites (air doesn't like earth, vice versa)
6. At some Level Contract makers can make contracts with regular people (small bonuses with a geas-like effect)
7. There should be lots of modifiers to contract making. Such as a penalty for being under duress. (Your soul for an instant teleport sounds better when you're about to get eaten by a dragon.)