D&D 3e/3.5e/d20The forum for conversations specifically related to the rules and procedures of Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition, 3.5 Edition, or any fantasy game using the d20 system or a variant thereof (commercially published or not).
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Amateur writers use "whispered", "shouted" and "questioned"
Skilled writers use "demonstrated", "ejaculated", "murmured", "explained", "queried" and "demanded"
Masterful writers use "said" and "asked".
Dreamer Pony is by Akrim.elf.
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Baiyan, God of Joy, by GryffonDurime, while the C.U.T.E Scardycat and Dreamer are by Tomb Raven.
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Illumian Dread Necromancer Lich avatar by Tinymushroom.
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Originally Posted by Bloodgruve
Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
An important question here is such; how do you qualify best? Most powerful? Best balanced? Most interesting/flavorful?
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78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
My players met in a mountain pass on their way to a celebratory feast, that was then ambushed by a draconic army. Good times.
I'd like to think "best" means the rules did not adequately cover this concept before. In that sense:
Warlock. We needed an at-will blaster, and the other invocations cover a lot of "superhero" concepts that were difficult or impossible to do before.
Duskblade. We've seen many, many attempts to do a hybrid warrior/spellcaster, and they usually suck. Duskblade isn't perfect, but it's pretty close to a "Gish in a can", and works pretty well out of the box without too many headaches.
Unarmed Swordsage. It's Monk done right, and the maneuver system is flexible enough to cover almost all the wuxia/ninja/Kung Fu action movie tropes.
If I may ask, why do you include the other two ToB classes, but exclude Crusader? Player's Handbook Paladin is woefully bad for a number of reasons, and from a fluff standpoint there are a lot of character concepts (a divine warrior that serves any god that's not Lawful or Neutral Good) that it just doesn't cover.
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78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
My players met in a mountain pass on their way to a celebratory feast, that was then ambushed by a draconic army. Good times.
Warlock. We needed an at-will blaster, and the other invocations cover a lot of "superhero" concepts that were difficult or impossible to do before.
I'd argue that the dragon heart adept does this better... and has the same issue as a lot of simaler classes, it is dealing meh damage.
though I do like the whole idea of invocation using classes.
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Unarmed Swordsage. It's Monk done right, and the maneuver system is flexible enough to cover almost all the wuxia/ninja/Kung Fu action movie tropes.
I would simalerly say Warblade, you could have a good mid level fighter
My personal favorite is Psionic warrior. Suddenly, you have a half caster that had RELIVENT CASTING AT ALL LEVELS! A quick dip gets you some cool spells, and a full 20 hands out some heavy casting.
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avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!
Id like every one to deceide best on their own terms, what I had in mind personally, was the classes that compare most favourably with the core classes.
Psychic Rogue, Beguiler, Warlock, Swordsage. Can we use PF and PrCs?
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Like one, that on a lonesome road
Doth walk in fear and dread,
And having once turned round walks on,
And turns no more his head;
Because he knows, a frightful fiend
Doth close behind him tread. The Rime of the Ancient Mariner -- Samuel Coleridge Taylor
Totemist and Incarnate, of course! Who doesn't want to slay their enemies using the colour blue?
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Originally Posted by JaronK
Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.
Totemist and Incarnate, of course! Who doesn't want to slay their enemies using the colour blue?
Incarnum always freaked me out. After reading the blurb about it being composed of the souls of the unborn, I forever after pictured Incarnum abilities as being fueled by ground-up fetuses.
I think the next three major villains I introduced were Incarnum users because of that.
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Originally Posted by Popertop
Congratulations sir, only a proud, great and terrible few have managed to produce an epic frown from me.
If I may ask, why do you include the other two ToB classes, but exclude Crusader? Player's Handbook Paladin is woefully bad for a number of reasons, and from a fluff standpoint there are a lot of character concepts (a divine warrior that serves any god that's not Lawful or Neutral Good) that it just doesn't cover.
Because, while overall i like the crusader and used it in numerous builds, i feel the "divine" theme is not represented enough by the class. Also he is a bit overshadowed by the warblade.
I actually really like the way the Scout was made. It seems to get all the right abilities for a stealthy character
8 + INT skill points to cover the cost of Hide & Move Silently and all of the other skills you need.
trackless step so others can't find you by just following your trail
camouflage to hide without cover or concealment
hide in plain sight to hide while being observed
fast movement so that when you move at half-speed while sneaking you aren't crawling along like a snail
flawless stride so that when you move at half-speed while sneaking you aren't reduced to one-quarter speed for every patch of undergrowth or pile of rubble in your way
Not to mention they get some of the good defensive abilities like uncanny dodge, evasion, and free movement which are really helpful when you aren't tanking around in heavy armor.
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My thanks to Komodo for the excellent Avatar.
Re: power, I'd say you're not gonna get much stronger than Wiz/Cleric/Druid anyway, so my vote goes to the classes that allow representing the concepts the other core classes suck at: the ToB ones and Factotum, plus Beguiler and Binder cuz they so cool.
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"I'll be whatever I wanna do." - Philip J. Fry
Because, while overall i like the crusader and used it in numerous builds, i feel the "divine" theme is not represented enough by the class. Also he is a bit overshadowed by the warblade.
All three ToB classes are supposedly on the same tier of power. I also think that the crusader, while having access to the least amount of schools, has Devoted Spirit, that might arguably be the best one out of the lot. I agree that he is not as strict as the paladin, nor does he rely on the "divine" aspect as such, which can make the "knight" part of playing him up to the player since he has no real restraints, but I rather like him in execution, and class abilities.
All three ToB classes are supposedly on the same tier of power. I also think that the crusader, while having access to the least amount of schools, has Devoted Spirit, that might arguably be the best one out of the lot. I agree that he is not as strict as the paladin, nor does he rely on the "divine" aspect as such, which can make the "knight" part of playing him up to the player since he has no real restraints, but I rather like him in execution, and class abilities.
I think I'd prefer the crusader more if his stance progression weren't so screwy. That one mechanical foible is why I leave him off the "best" list; he has to languish in simply "good".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popertop
Congratulations sir, only a proud, great and terrible few have managed to produce an epic frown from me.
What exactly is "screwy" about it? I read that many times and I don't understand how it is different than the other two. Does he get them too slow or something? Or are the stances considered lacking themselves considering he gets them sooner than the other classes, so he has less choices what to take? He gets his stances sooner than warblade(3 stances by level 8 compared to 3 by warblade on level 10).
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