New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

[Lira]

Originally Posted by ZombieMaster

Hi Giant,

I am/was very interested in this book, but understood it was a pre-order, not a pre-purchase. I pre-ordered it when it was first announced, but just noticed on my credit card bill that I have already been charged for it, as of March 17th, which is 6 to 10 weeks from the actual release date (assuming it does indeed come out in May).

How come I have already been billed for the book? Was this an error?

Really? You didn't notice the bold, red text on the page for the book on ookoodook?

This product is currently a pre-order; it is scheduled to ship in early May 2011. Payment will be taken at the time the order is placed. Your entire order will ship when all items are available.

[ZombieMaster]

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

Still looking forward to the book though :-)

[Caractacus]

Originally Posted by ZombieMaster

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

Still looking forward to the book though :-)

Look at it this way - so much time will elapse between now and when you get it that when it comes it'll seem free!

[Kish]

Originally Posted by ZombieMaster

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

The entire point of the requirement to preorder is so that too many books won't get printed. People being able to cancel their preorders would defeat the purpose of the exercise.

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by ZombieMaster

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

Still looking forward to the book though :-)

By charging people's cards now, the Ookoodook servers don't have to store anyone's credit card information for the next month or so, meaning that it's a lot more secure for both customers and them. As I understand it, that's the primary reason for charging cards immediately.

[ref]

Ah, hadn't thought of that. Very clever.

[Jade Dragon]

I ordered the book, can't wait 'til it comes.

[Asthix]

I finally got around to ordering today, and Ookookdook has On the Origin of PC's! Great!

EDIT: It seems I can't buy them with a debit card. That's too bad. I won't be able to buy them if that's the case.

[apegamer]

Just a post to let folks know that the registration problem some of you have had on ookoodook.com should be addressed now.

Note that it's not necessary to register in order to buy something from the store. You can just check out as a guest and we won't store your info.

[WeLoveFireballs]

Awww I wish I noticed this book sooner. Oh well printing may have started and charity is over but I'm ordering one! And I agree with several people who have mentioned it, new material>90% old material books! (nevertheless I still have all the books except war and XPs).

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by WeLoveFireballs

Awww I wish I noticed this book sooner. Oh well printing may have started and charity is over but I'm ordering one! And I agree with several people who have mentioned it, new material>90% old material books! (nevertheless I still have all the books except war and XPs).

As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.

[Lord_Jadawin]

Originally Posted by The Giant

As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.

Thank you! I was looking at Snips two nights ago and decided to hold off since I had missed the deadline, but in light of this I just placed my preorder.

[Irbis]

"Found" Paladin Blues?

Hmm, I have no idea how you (as in, the printing/selling company) can so easily misplace for so long a big hunk of something printed in such small volume. Especially seeing the author's welfare sort of depends on these books being sold, not lost/misplaced. Do they keep stock of items at all?

I'd like to hear a story about this one someday, preferably in person

[NerfTW]

Seventy five copies is not exactly a "big hunk" of the print run for NCftPB. The print run was in the thousands, if not entering five digits. I think you're underestimating how easy it is to misplace one box of something in a massive warehouse.

I can probably guess the story:

"The box was misplaced under a set of something else. It was assumed lost/stolen and forgotten about until we found it while looking through X product/doing an inventory. This sort of thing happens quite often, end of story"

I don't think you'll ever get an answer, because any discussion about it is between him and APE Games.

[Ted The Bug]

Originally Posted by Irbis

"Found" Paladin Blues?

Hmm, I have no idea how you (as in, the printing/selling company) can so easily misplace for so long a big hunk of something printed in such small volume. Especially seeing the author's welfare sort of depends on these books being sold, not lost/misplaced. Do they keep stock of items at all?

I'd like to hear a story about this one someday, preferably in person

Rich makes his living off of OotS? Always thought that he did work for WotC on the side. Well, shows you how much I know.
And also, $3,200! Proud to be a part of it, even if that part is pretty small.

[Irbis]

Originally Posted by NerfTW

Seventy five copies is not exactly a "big hunk" of the print run for NCftPB. The print run was in the thousands, if not entering five digits.

Wait, what?

Five digits? I don't know in which country you live in, but even in US, the largest comic book market in the world, five digit circulation is unheard of outside Batman-level of popularity for comic books, and that in the case of trade paperbacks, which are significantly more marketable than OotS, and cheaper to boot. Sorry, OotS is good, but compared to flagship titles of US/manga comic books, it's a niche.

Honestly, I would be very surprised if any OotS book broke four digits, and that if prefaced by '1', if that. Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books. Naruto vol 47 (priced $9.99) managed 6.500. I'd like you to show something supporting your claim that OotS outsells two vastly more popular titles by an order of magnitude.

The only titles even close to five digits are $2.99, thin monthly comic books, and if someone really managed 5 digits selling OotS, then he is an economic genius larger than Greenspan and Smith combined.

So, yes, 75 pieces is a big hunk of the printing run.

I think you're underestimating how easy it is to misplace one box of something in a massive warehouse.

Oh? Small publishers have... 'massive warehouse'?

Do you know how much such a thing does cost? Especially in business where margins are paper-thin? Have you ever been in actual printer warehouse? I was, and the largest printer of comic books (pushing dozen+ titles per month) in my country has room sized one. Hardly a place where you can misplace something for more than a five minutes.

[Jimor]

Top webcomic readerships DWARF the most popular comics by Marvel or DC. We're talking mid to high 6 figures for comics like OOTS, or Questionable content, with XKCD and Penny Arcade possibly into 7 figures or approaching 8.

I don't know how much of that translates into sales (and that's Rich's private business), but making a living as a book author pretty much demands regular high 4-figure to low 5-figure sales. Other merchandise might be a very large factor as well and is difficult to estimate. Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content, for example, lives off of and has bought a house on only selling T-shirts promoted via his comic/site.

But 5 figures is not something I would hesitate to believe for a moment if that's what somebody told me.

[Lira]

I work for a warehouse, and you have no idea how easy it is to misplace stuff.

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by Irbis

(Factually inaccurate rant)

There are about 28,000 copies of Paladin Blues in circulation since 2006. It is not the bestselling OOTS book we have ever printed; both the black-and-white books beat it by a fairly large margin, as does Dungeon Crawlin' Fools. ~75 copies represents four boxes, each about 10" x 16" x 8", out of over a thousand such boxes for that one title alone. Ookoodook shares a very large warehouse space with several other companies, where there are, sometimes, several pallets of books. Since the First Printing of Paladin Blues dates from before Ookoodook handled my ordering, they probably were mixed in with a shipment they received but not noticed until now.

I have no idea what the readership or purchase levels for Marvel or DC titles are, but I would point out that OOTS has a readership online of around three-quarters of a million individuals. That less than 5% of those readers buy any given book is not exactly "economic genius."

Originally Posted by Ted The Bug

Rich makes his living off of OotS? Always thought that he did work for WotC on the side. Well, shows you how much I know.

I haven't done any work for WOTC since Dungeonscape was printed in early 2007, and that was only the third book I had worked on. It was never a significant income stream, because it was low-paying work-for-hire (that is, a small lump sum upon completion and no royalties). I've been essentially supporting my family on OOTS since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools came out in 2005.

[FujinAkari]

That? Right there? That's why we <3 you Rich :)

Well, one of the reasons.

[Ted The Bug]

Supporting a family just on book/merchandise sales, with no site ads at all? That is awesomeness right there. If I hadn't already preordered already, that would've gotten me to do it.

[NerfTW]

Originally Posted by Irbis

Five digits? I don't know in which country you live in, but even in US, the largest comic book market in the world, five digit circulation is unheard of outside Batman-level of popularity for comic books

Five digits is 10,000 btw. That's "Ten Thousand". Ten thousand would be a laughably small print run for a Marvel or DC comic book.

[SPoD]

Originally Posted by Irbis

Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books.

Not that I need to add anything to the Giant's utter refutation of everything you said, but I would point out that Batman: The Long Halloween was released in trade paperback in 1999, twelve years ago. If it's still selling 7000 copies per year twelve years in, then the total number of sales is going to still dwarf those of any OOTS book. Will Paladin Blues still be selling strong in 2018? Probably not.

So what we have here is simply a failure to understand the significance of the numbers you quoted.

[turkishproverb]

Saw the announcement. Got to digging up a copy of "no cure" and Dragon. Shame I didn't get around to ordering it sooner.

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't done any work for WOTC since Dungeonscape was printed in early 2007, and that was only the third book I had worked on. It was never a significant income stream, because it was low-paying work-for-hire (that is, a small lump sum upon completion and no royalties). I've been essentially supporting my family on OOTS since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools came out in 2005.

Well, I"m glad you've been able to do so.

Originally Posted by Irbis

Honestly, I would be very surprised if any OotS book broke four digits, and that if prefaced by '1', if that. Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books. Naruto vol 47 (priced $9.99) managed 6.500. I'd like you to show something supporting your claim that OotS outsells two vastly more popular titles by an order of magnitude.

Those are only the DM figures, you know. Bookstore adds alot to each of those comics, as do internet non-comic shop sales like amazon.

Further, webocimics are treated more like "comic strips' than "comic books" in terms of readership, and as such have a fair chance of surprisingly high book sales.

[Morgan Wick]

Despite my misgivings and broke-ness from earlier in the thread, I'm just about to order one of those No Cure copies off a gift card I got at Christmas. My one misgiving now is not being able to order anything else to accelerate a War and XPs reprint (or take advantage of my likely one chance to get this new book).

(Edit: Or I won't order it because my gift card just barely comes up short to cover the cost of shipping, I can't order off a second card, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to put for some of the fields anyway - my card has a "message" from the people who gave it to me instead of a name.)

[BranRainey]

Blah. I want to order this and No Cure (which I've been waiting for for a long time) but I won't have disposable income until August at the earliest. Such bad timing.

[Kurald Galain]

Originally Posted by The Giant

As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.

That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?

[SPoD]

Originally Posted by Morgan Wick

(Edit: Or I won't order it because my gift card just barely comes up short to cover the cost of shipping, I can't order off a second card, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to put for some of the fields anyway - my card has a "message" from the people who gave it to me instead of a name.)

You should try contacting apegamer, he can usually fix stuff like the fields problem. His email is info@apegames.com.

EDITED for ninja-ing:

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain

That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?

He can probably help with that, too.

[silversaraph]

I love the idea of finding a forgotten box of books in a warehouse. I've helped clean out a few storage facilities and all of them had something or other that people misplaced or just had no idea was even there. An example, I took inventory at my school's science lab and found dozens of things that are either now illegal or super dangerous, including five pounds of 30 year old potassium metal (which superoxides and will explode in contact with air.)

Point is it's easy for even a small warehouse to have several lost boxes of books. Personally, I'd love to search these places for that misplaced merchandise... finding something long lost feels like getting it for free in the first place.

[Ashtar]

In the print run of my dad's first book, the publisher managed to lose 600 copies in a warehouse shuffle. We do know that some of them later turned up on Ebay, though. That hurts, since my dad was not compensated for those lost royalties.

So it does happen.

Oh and The Giant, thanks for all the information. I really appreciate knowing there's so many fans out there who got the book.