Ok i'm trying to build a Magic Using Rogue. I wanted to be good at stealth and melee but also have a magic attack I can rely on. So I came up with a Rogue/Warlock Hybrid. Not the best it could be probably but Sorc just didnt give me as much as I wanted that the Warlock seems to be able to give.
Im pretty sure we are using the older Stealth Rules as well so thats another point for the Warlock. Also I didnt raise Cha as much as I thought I would so i'm using the Con Attacks of the Warlock.
Any help or critique is appreciated. I think I got it for the most part though. OH the point allocation. Seems High huh??? Yea we use a very very very OP stat set up. Books allowed are Hardbacks Only. No Dragon Mag period or I would guess as well the Heroes of the blah blah. I can use Themes but they replace what ever they give.
So Once Again ANY and ALL help or critiques are much appreciated. Its been well over a year since I have played a 4th Ed game.
I would just play a full warlock and take Melee Trainng so i can stab things, then it is a magic using thief. I'm not seeing the point of using a hybrid here.
I like the Rogue Stealth Utilities and the Warlock does not have any melee powers so I can use the Rogue Powers to fuel the Sneak Attack and still be a striker in melee with the hint of striker Warlock at ranged if I needed to fall back.
Where? The only one I saw was Eldritch Strike which is from sources not allowed at my table. If there are more I would honestly love to see them because that can open up more powers to take.
This sounds like it would be best served as a rogue that MCs warlock. The warlock has a number of melee powers from the hexblade sub-class, but I don't think you get access to it. Eyebite or Dire Radiance could both be handy.
Why do you say best as a Multiclass? I honestly thought about that but it didnt really come into its own until Paragon. Which admittedly isnt bad but I dont really wanna wait about a 7 months or so before I get there. We only game twice a month. 4 feats really eats into a build though, and then once I hit paragon im using another 1 or 2 to get what I got now.
Do you think I should not go Warlock and instead change over to something else? I know its really possible to make a crappy hybrid lol. Im not shooting for super optimized (did that with the last 4th ed game... DM hated me for it. I make really good defenders apparently) So was trying to honestly come up with something more fun to play. I have played all the Roles and I usually get stuck with Defender or Leader. Was wanting to let the rest of the group have the spotlight.
The rest of the group will be a Cleric|Druid Hybrid (for minor control minor leader), a Warlord (same character he played so I know how this one will go), most likely a Barbarian (the guy loves Barbs) and a Fighter (Battlerager). So I was gonna fill the other striker slot and be the Trapfinder/Scout. If that can be done better by another class combo that combines Melee/Stealth/Skills/Magic at a low level then I would be all over it.
Thanks so far guys. Honest, It may sound like im not being thankful but I truly am for all the advice.
I think the Executioner would be great for you, but it's not in the handbooks. When you said you wanted to be a Rogue that uses magic, how much explicit ranged magic to you mean? Fluff is completely independent, so a thrown dagger or arrow could be completely fluffed as a magic blast. Being a Rogue, as a Dex class, you'll most likely have a poor Arcana score, but other than that it shouldn't matter.
When I said multiclass, I mean one feat, Pact Initiate. Maybe one power swap, or some that require warlock class. If you want to be half and half it's harder, but when you say a Rogue that uses magic, once per encounter makes sense to me. The Binder MC would be even better, but that's not available to you.
A Warlock|Executioner spamming Eldritch Strike would be perfect for you, but alas, you shant play it now.
Well I was wanting to be as stealthy as possible and to abuse in combat while switching targets and what not.
The Executioner is in a Hardback Book so I can lawyer that in there if needed but I heard bad things about them striker wise. I do like alot of their powers and the feel of the class. The 1d8 dont thrill me much though. Fluff can be reworked but it still has to be an actual Arcane Power though.
Also what are the Multiclass/Hybrid Options on the Executioner?
All in all I was goin to go with the Arcane Trickster Paragon Path so I could use my Arcane Powers in melee. I know the Sorc can do that by default with a feat.
Character build is not set in stone just the fluff is. Stats can be changed. All stats start at 15 and can add and subtract up to 18 and down to (for me) no less than 8. I honestly hate having negative mods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealistik
Rogue/Warlock is great if you're going the permastealth route with multiclass Assassin, Hybrid Talent (Cunning Sneak) and Cursed Shadow.
Throw in Risky Charge, Boots of Adept Charging, Improved Cunning Sneak and you're set.
The L10 Persistent Tail Stealth skill power allows you to move while stealthed during another creature's turn so you're truly untraceable.
It gets better if you're a Pixie so you can fly, improve your charge prospects, ignore Tremorsense and remain aloft with off-turn movement.
Cant be a Pixie gotta be a Human but how can I use this? It sounds great and is Charging really that great in 4th? I hardly ever did it in all the other 4th ed games I played in.
It works with Human, just not as well since you lack flight, though the bonus feat does help service the extensive Rube Goldberg feat combinations required to make this work.
As charging goes, it's one of the easiest means to get respectable damage via a combination of several charge orientated feats, abilities and items, including the Horned Helmet, Vanguard Weapon, Surprising Charge, MBA optimizers and such.
The way the combo works is that you start out stealthed between Shadow Walk and Cunning Sneak (usually giving you a surprise round), charge a target, gain concealment from Shadow Walk for moving 3+ squares, shift 2 squares away from where you ended your charge movement (1 from Boots of Adept Charging + 1 from Risky Shift), and then make a Stealth check to hide due to your concealment and Cunning Sneak.
Then, when the next creature's turn comes up, you move while Stealthed when they move, making your position almost impossible to determine, and setting you up nicely for your next charge.
Deft Footwork (or better yet, Mark of the Sentinel if you can take it) lets you avoid a creature trying to cheese you out of Stealth by moving into you as it allows your character to shift 2 squares (with Risky Shift) in place of making an Opportunity Attack.
That sounds pretty cool honestly. Being to move around tagging people. Im sure im not going to be needed for flanking all that often. Is it possible to do by not charging though?
You can, so long as you are able to move after attacking.
Attack -> Move 3 squares -> Stealth
The problem is that you lose the use of Persistent Tail which sucks, so you need to find some other form of off-turn movement to preserve the effectiveness of your Stealthing (otherwise your opponents will know exactly which square you're in).
In otherwords, you need to find a way to move after attacking without a move action on your turn, or on the immediately following turn (not your next turn; the turn right after yours) to maximize the impact of your Stealthing (such as using a minor, immediate or free action).
So talked it over with the DM and I asked him if I could take Hybrid Talent a second time and he said yes, we also are allowed to take a feat as a background choice. So if I do all of that how does this sound?
1b- Hybrid Talent- Shadow Walk
1b- Hybrid Talent- Cunning Sneak
1- Criterion of Balic Practice
2- Mark of Passage
4- Risky Shift
6- Tainted Wounds (I really like this feat)
8- Light Blade Expertise
10- ???
So basically stroll up to something and gain concealment then hide. Stab it with Piercing Strike. Shift 3 and gain concealment and then hide. Rinse and Repeat.
Im only hitting Reflex so thats why I figure I can hold off on getting Expertise till later on in Heroic.
The other two at wills I was thinking about were Eldritch Blast and Eyes of the Vestige. I figured on not attacking AC and hitting NADs would be easier.
So even though its not technically legal at my table it is. So what do yall think?
I just noticed that Persistent Tail is a move action... so I may have to drop that one and just HOPE the DM ignores me.
Why not just multiclass Assassin and get Cursed Shadow? That way you can make the combo work without houserules. Assassin isn't a bad multiclass either.
Also, Tainted Wounds isn't very good; trust me on this. Very situational.
And yes, that Persistent Tail is a move action is why you can't really afford to give it (your move action) up, and why charging is so indispensable to the combo.
I believe he's limited in what sources he can draw on. Otherwise, it's a wonderful combo, Executioner|Warlock as I said spamming double damage features on Eldritch Strike. That would define magic rogue to me, personally. Use Hybrid Talent to get a Pact as a human, 4 at-wills aren't too bad when each has it's use, I'd pick Sorcerer-King then add Infernal at Paragon, for extra THPs goodies. Level 1 Human Executioner|Warlock with Hybrid Talent: Pact Boon and Mindbite scorn using a rapier can do 2d8+2d6+con with an MBA, including charges and OAs. And charging is a great way to trigger Shadow Walk once you pick it up at level 2. Is it a one trick pony, certainly. But effective, I'd say so.
May I ask you, Surrealistik, if a Warlock|Executioner would fare better on damage potential than your Cheesassassin?
It might.
The problem with this hybrid is that you can't permastealth which is the whole point of the Cheesassassin; attacking with impunity for excellent damage and avoiding all (non-Blindsight/ridiculously huge AoE) retaliation.
Here's what I came up with. The trick here would be using shadowrift blade as means of triggering Winter Winds off-turn when WLMRiposting and setting and with the teleport augmentations, get me better a good position on the battlefield. Plus, he always has the cloak's bonuses on + concealment from shadow walk (reading it as any kind of movement, such as teleport).
I am positive that this has room for improvement, therefore, I submit it to evaluation, etc... =D
Spoiler
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Exec|Lock Charger, level 16
Eladrin, Executioner|Warlock, Long Night Scion
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Fey Pact (Hybrid)
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Guild Attacks (Hybrid): Red Scales (Hybrid)
Hybrid Executioner: Hybrid Executioner Will
Eladrin Subrace: Sun Elf (Eladrin)
Select option: Eladrin Skill Bonuses
Select option: Wizard Implement Proficiency
Select option: Eladrin Education
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 11, Dex 17, Int 19, Wis 12, Cha 22.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 16.
ITEMS
Frost Rapier +3, Shadowrift Blade Accurate dagger +3, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon tier), Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Badge of the Berserker +3, Cloak of Translocation +3, Horned Helm (paragon tier), Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier), Drowmesh of Dark Deeds +3, Eladrin Ring of Passage (paragon tier), Rain of Hammers Ki Focus +3
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
I'd say, if you are new to the game, the Executioner|Warlock/Rogue can be a very effective striker.
But if you're familiar with the Stealth rules, go cheesy. My build is a bit if a glass cannon, despite its Con/Dex focus. I'll get a sheet made up and posted in the morrow.
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Rogue/Warlock Critique Please
