Touhou II: Story of an Eastern Thread

[Volatar]

Originally Posted by memnarch

Got any idea of what the names of the missing art cards are?

Unfortunately not. We'll have to wait until Cog wakes up.

Keep an eye on Steam and poke him when he gets on.

[Cogwheel]

Woah. That's far more of a response than I expected.

Originally Posted by NeonBlack

Colour me interested. It's been a while since I played Magic, and this looks like the perfect excuse to remedy that.

Yaaaay. Though I imagine being out of the game for a while means you'll be playing Limited?

Looking at the previews, I absolutely looooove Hina's design. Spin, Hina, spin! Same goes for Kogasa and Remi. Now, for some minor text nitpicking and various comments:

Oh, thanks. And I see you've played Shadowmoor, at least, if you recognize that. Remi is... well, she originally cost four hybrid black/red mana. That was pretty clearly broken. I don't like the card much myself and won't until post-playtesting, if only because the lockdown potential really scares me. Ah well.

Spoiler

Mokou's first ability needs some templating (should be "it deals" instead of "deal", unless you really want the source of the damage to be the player, and I don't even know if that's possible!).

Entirely possible. Not the intent, though, and I'll fix that immediately (though not the gallery, mucking about with that is a pain, just the actual in-set version). Thanks for catching that.

Shou's tap ability doesn't need to specify that you gain life, since Lifelink covers that. Unless the idea was to gain that life twice, of course.

Yeah, that's the intent. This is why the joke that started around her ("my name is Shou, but you can call me Lightning Helix") is not entirely accurate.

I've always seen Tewi's second ability starting with the words "Choose one:", dunno if this has changed recently. Still, it's just standard templating and it should work fine as is.

But I did put that there- wait, why isn't it there?

Bluh. Fixing.

Yuyuko's ability probably needs "...under your control" at the end.

Maybe for clarification's sake, yeah. Technically, the "under your control" bit is implied unless otherwise stated in cases like this, but it can't hurt.

What does Suika's and Yuugi's Drunken 3 do?

That's the main mechanic for oni in this set. Intoxication counters. Most creatures, if they have one, can't block. Creatures with Drunken can, and get +X/+X per counter, where X is the number next to Drunken. Most have 1 or 2, while Suika and Yuugi have 3.

I, uh... I did mention that this is largely a tribal set, right? That's a thing it is.

It's kind of funny how Aya and Hatate would work wonderfully well together in a deck. Throw in a Pandemonium-like effect and... *drools*

Actually, that's because Aya, Hatate and Momiji are basically the big three cards (along with Daitengu Loremaster, a non-legendary) for the tengu tribe. Which are split into red Wolf Youkai and blue Bird Youkai, though Aya covers both colours. Their primary mechanic (with a bit of bouncing/mucking about with topdecks) is hand size. Yours and the opponent's.

I guess they're pretty Kamigawa, only hopefully not useless.

If Nue's "discard a card" is part of the Morph cost, it should appear before the reminder text.

Thanks. Fixing.

Lol Sanae+Giant Catfish deck. Johnny senses tingling hard.

Also the part where she makes Suwako and Kanako work together without stretching your manabase horribly. Intentional, as is her taking the only colour they share. In Constructed, you might be able to drop turn 1 Elves/BoP, turn 2 Minoriko, turn 3 Sanae, turn 4 Progenitus. She does make Avatar tribal vaguely playable in casual matches, at least.

Seriously looking forward to seeing the whole set. A few cards look darn overpowered at first sight, but I guess it will all more-or-less balance itself when seeing the whole picture.

Or it'll be a horrible trainwreck!

But hey, this is why we playtest.

Originally Posted by Associate

In the meantime, while I appreciate the desire to show off cool art, it would be preferable to use the regular card layout on most cards over the full-art one. It makes the text really hard to read on a lot of cards, especially ones with brightly-colored art (it also takes away a bit of the 'special' feel of the layout frame, but that's minor).

This is by request. And only for previews. I'm well aware of the problem and also the fact that some art needs to be moved around on the card a bit (borders on Komachi, hideous Devour reminder text on Flandre, I'm looking at you). The final version will be available in both full art and translucent frame (see: Eldrazi) varieties for cards with art. And it will still stand out, I reckon, simply because many cards don't even have art at all.

Also the expansion symbol is ugly and this means I don't have to show it until it's fixed- oh wait the incident cycle. Neeeever mind.

-I really like the choice of the Avatar creature type for gods and related creatures.
-Introducing the Youkai type doesn't seem fully necessary since there's already the Spirit type, which also got used in Kamigawa. If the concern is that Spirit should be used for dead ghosts specifically, the MtG conception of the Elemental type is probably closer to what Youkai are in Japanese folklore proper. That said, this isn't a big issue.

Thanks. Avatar seemed like the only good fit, really. As for Youkai... I understand the concern, and I wasn't entirely comfortable myself. I can't use Spirit because that's for ghosts, and a tribe in itself. Elemental seems a mite too western and also inappropriate in some cases (say, Satori). Also, there are some limited Youkai-hosers in the human cards and such. Maybe some things that benefit them eventually too, aside from being excluded from Eternal Night. If nothing else, it's probably harmless.

The one person who seriously told me to make a Miko type just for Sanae/Reimu, on the other hand... which reminds me, I'm a bit surprised that no one minds Reimu's type being Shaman.

Originally Posted by memnarch

Cogwheel, gimme a poke if you want help finding art for anything.

Thank you. As Volatar said, anything that isn't legendary or a handful of spells lacks art. A lot of this may never find art. I admit, it's not currently as much of a priority as getting this to a playable state. The "art for everything that can have it" bit will wait. As will full completion on flavour text, I imagine (by which I mean putting it on all cards that should have it, not just most).

Thanks for the offer, though. The best way to do it, I reckon, is to just find art for anything that lacks it, if you want to, and suggest it to me once the set's out and you can see the card list as a whole.


A few last things for everyone: This is a tribal set. A bunch of legends don't support it but this is definitely what the generic creatures and a bunch of noncreatures do. The easiest way to explain it is tossing Lorwyn and Kamigawa into a blender, at least in some respects.

Second, I can start posting generics if anyone just wants raw stats right now or something. Third, have a pair of not-on-the-gallery-yet previews.

[Associate]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

This is by request. And only for previews. I'm well aware of the problem and also the fact that some art needs to be moved around on the card a bit (borders on Komachi, hideous Devour reminder text on Flandre, I'm looking at you). The final version will be available in both full art and translucent frame (see: Eldrazi) varieties for cards with art. And it will still stand out, I reckon, simply because many cards don't even have art at all.

Could you post the normal-art (or plaintext) versions as well, then, for easier readability?

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

Thanks. Avatar seemed like the only good fit, really. As for Youkai... I understand the concern, and I wasn't entirely comfortable myself. I can't use Spirit because that's for ghosts, and a tribe in itself. Elemental seems a mite too western and also inappropriate in some cases (say, Satori). Also, there are some limited Youkai-hosers in the human cards and such. Maybe some things that benefit them eventually too, aside from being excluded from Eternal Night. If nothing else, it's probably harmless.

Yeah, like I said, it's a minor issue. There's a few more specific subtypes for specifically undead spirits, such as Wraith, Specter, Shade, and so on, but all of those follow certain mechanical and thematic conventions that rule them out. Kamigawa used Spirit both for the Youkai-equivalent Kami and 'ghosts', though, as can be seen in cards like Promise of Bunrei (though 'ghosts' appeared to be basically treated as the Kami of your soul or something). Ghost also tends to be treated as a subtype of Youkai in Touhou lore, though it's not exactly consistent.
There's also the Incarnation type, I guess, but eeeeh...

The one person who seriously told me to make a Miko type just for Sanae/Reimu, on the other hand... which reminds me, I'm a bit surprised that no one minds Reimu's type being Shaman.

I was mildly surprised that you didn't go for the more obvious Cleric type, but Shaman is the more accurate choice.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by Associate

Could you post the normal-art (or plaintext) versions as well, then, for easier readability?

If I find the time in the next day or two, yeah. I'm mucking about with frames a lot right now, and have some other stuff to do, all of which is besides friday generally being hectic.

I will say this, though. I can afford to make the clear frames very clear in most cases, simply because it changes white text to black. This makes it so much easier to read. That said, yeah, it'll be up once time allows. I may take a break from writing flavour text tomorrow to do that. Would you prefer plaintext, or clear frames?

Yeah, like I said, it's a minor issue. There's a few more specific subtypes for specifically undead spirits, such as Wraith, Specter, Shade, and so on, but all of those follow certain mechanical and thematic conventions that rule them out. Kamigawa used Spirit both for the Youkai-equivalent Kami and 'ghosts', though, as can be seen in cards like Promise of Bunrei (though 'ghosts' appeared to be basically treated as the Kami of your soul or something). Ghost also tends to be treated as a subtype of Youkai in Touhou lore, though it's not exactly consistent.
There's also the Incarnation type, I guess, but eeeeh...

Incarnation is a clever idea, actually, I forgot about that completely. But yeah, the distinction is important here, if only to avoid making the Spirit tribe three or four times the size of the others. When all's said and done, it's a compromise, and not an ideal one, but it'll have to do.

I was mildly surprised that you didn't go for the more obvious Cleric type, but Shaman is the more accurate choice.

I considered Cleric. Also, Druid, because animism. Then I realized that druids are green-only and also entirely "look how much mana I made". Thus, shaman. As an added bonus, it's still a decently well-supported tribe.

Miko's a cleric, though. Well, cleric monk. Byakuren's just a monk. Functionally, I suspect Miko fits best in human decks tribe-wise, while Byakuren is pretty much just "what have you done to the game?"


Edit: The lack of catfish hate is surprising. I got an unbelievable amount of "you cut Shizuha/Koakuma/whatever for this?" for that one.

[Associate]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

If I find the time in the next day or two, yeah. I'm mucking about with frames a lot right now, and have some other stuff to do, all of which is besides friday generally being hectic.

I will say this, though. I can afford to make the clear frames very clear in most cases, simply because it changes white text to black. This makes it so much easier to read. That said, yeah, it'll be up once time allows. I may take a break from writing flavour text tomorrow to do that. Would you prefer plaintext, or clear frames?

Whichever is less of a hassle, I'm cool with either.

Incarnation is a clever idea, actually, I forgot about that completely. But yeah, the distinction is important here, if only to avoid making the Spirit tribe three or four times the size of the others. When all's said and done, it's a compromise, and not an ideal one, but it'll have to do.

Yeah, I get that. Incarnation also has the problem of having a defined mechanical identity (the "when in graveyard" effects), but there's only, what, five or six of them?

you cut Shizuha

Who?

[NeonBlack]

Minoriko is lonely . Also, if Shizuha ever makes it into an hypothetical future expansion, she has to be a mana fixer. Turning green into red and all that...

@Cogwheel: I actually played quite frequently on MODO up until the release of Scars, which kind of drove me off after liking Zendikar (but not its expansions). Then Innistrad failed to gain my attention, and I haven't even looked at whatever has come afterwards. So, yeah, "haven't played for a while" actually means "haven't played for about two years".

I was a (terrible) limited player almost exclusively, though, so most of my feedback regarding deckbuilding and playtesting will probably come from that, and maybe Block Constructed.

[Reaver225]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

Miko's a cleric, though. Well, cleric monk. Byakuren's just a monk

Sacred Fist. She's totally a self-buffing gish.

Though I believe 3.5e D&D classes don't translate well to creature types very usefully.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by Associate

Whichever is less of a hassle, I'm cool with either.

I'll make a separate gallery with everything that has clear frames in a couple days tops. Just gonna get flavour text wrapped up for those cards first.

Yeah, I get that. Incarnation also has the problem of having a defined mechanical identity (the "when in graveyard" effects), but there's only, what, five or six of them?

Oh, those things. I was thinking of the Elemental Incarnations from Lorwyn, actually.

Originally Posted by NeonBlack

Minoriko is lonely . Also, if Shizuha ever makes it into an hypothetical future expansion, she has to be a mana fixer. Turning green into red and all that...

Given the whole death aspect of autumn, I figured GB. In any case, she gets a cameo in monogreen for the set's only land destruction spell.

@Cogwheel: I actually played quite frequently on MODO up until the release of Scars, which kind of drove me off after liking Zendikar (but not its expansions). Then Innistrad failed to gain my attention, and I haven't even looked at whatever has come afterwards. So, yeah, "haven't played for a while" actually means "haven't played for about two years".

Innistrad block just released its final set, actually. I came back to the game about halfway through the block, having quit shortly before Alara came out. Still not too familiar with everything since Eventide.

I was a (terrible) limited player almost exclusively, though, so most of my feedback regarding deckbuilding and playtesting will probably come from that, and maybe Block Constructed.

That works. Beginning to wonder if anyone will play this with other sets, but anyway.

Originally Posted by Reaver225

Sacred Fist. She's totally a self-buffing gish.

Though I believe 3.5e D&D classes don't translate well to creature types very usefully.

Not as such, no I would've gone with some sort of aura nonsense or self-buffing, but I figured the "world peace and healpunches right now" thing suited her better.


Also, a progress report. Frames are switched. Art changed accordingly. New art found, all artists credited. Flavour text will begin tomorrow. After that, I will fix the set symbol to be... less hideous. The symbol-making part of MSE is hard to use. After those two issues are taken care of, I'll begin work on porting it.


...Come to think of it, this is probably irritating anyone in the thread who doesn't care for all this card stuff. If anyone wants me to move this to another thread and stop intruding, just say the word.j

[Volatar]

No, put the stuff here. There isn't any other content anyways.

[Cogwheel]

News on the porting front.


Cockatrice: I need to load all the images into the appropriate folders. Then I need to open up the .xml and type in all text info for each of the 315 cards. Manually. Oh, and there's a good chance it'll be buggy, outright nonfunctional or completely wreck the database at which point you need to redownload all the cards off Oracle.

Cockatrice will, unlike my previous plans, be getting an image-only port for the people who really have to play on that for some reason.

Lackey: Fairly doable. The work of an hour at most, I reckon. Getting a port.

OCTGN: I haven't looked into this quite as much, but it seems to be about as easy as Lackey, in which case it will get a full port.


Cockatrice is the worst for MSE.

[Volatar]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

News on the porting front.


Cockatrice: I need to load all the images into the appropriate folders. Then I need to open up the .xml and type in all text info for each of the 315 cards. Manually. Oh, and there's a good chance it'll be buggy, outright nonfunctional or completely wreck the database at which point you need to redownload all the cards off Oracle.

Cockatrice will, unlike my previous plans, be getting an image-only port for the people who really have to play on that for some reason.

Lackey: Fairly doable. The work of an hour at most, I reckon. Getting a port.

OCTGN: I haven't looked into this quite as much, but it seems to be about as easy as Lackey, in which case it will get a full port.


Cockatrice is the worst for MSE.

Maybe you should just focus on using Lackey for the initial port and playtesting, and leave Cockatrice for the final version?

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by Volatar

Maybe you should just focus on using Lackey for the initial port and playtesting, and leave Cockatrice for the final version?

Lackey and OCTGN. Seeing as Moel and a few others loathe Lackey's interface and pretty much can't play on it, I need something else too.

I will either delay Cockatrice a bit or do it right off the bat. Either way, though, it won't get a full version: Images, and no text. Most I can do without sacrificing what little sanity this project has left me with.

[Cogwheel]

Sorry to double post, but I have an update. Everything is done, including flavour text. Well, not all of it, but quite a bit. The rest will come with the first balance patch, most likely, or even after a few. Changing rules text means tossing in flavour text en masse now is a bit unwise.

Porting will be done tomorrow, most likely. A Lackey port, an OCTGN port if I can manage it in the same day, and possibly a Cockatrice sorta-port but I don't want to promise anything on that front.

For now, since imgur won't let me upload more than 225 images at once, I've had to fall back on a backup measure. For those of you who want an early spoiler, all card images - both with and without art - are available for download here. Only 13 MB or so.

[NeonBlack]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

That works. Beginning to wonder if anyone will play this with other sets, but anyway.

Oh, I'll try, it's just that I can't do much with Standard sets considering I haven't played any of them . I'm already giving an Izzet deck with Aya, Hatate and assorted CITP goodies from Guildpact and other sets some thought, maybe throwing in some "wisdom" cards from Kamigawa.

Also, whee, full spoiler! Little things I've noticed that you may want fixed before porting. Minor typos and more templating issues, mostly:

Spoiler

There's a missing word "cast" in And Then There Were None after "additional cost to". How I missed this in my first look, I don't know... Same goes for most cards with additional costs, now that I get to them (Distract, Disorienting Shift...).

Burning Resolve's first bonus to blocking creatures could be written as "Protector 3", right?

Double-Barreled Throw: should be "target creatures".

Hail of Bullets should probably read "deals 5 damage divided as you choose among up to two target creatures with flying".

Koishi's ability probably needs a trigger of some sort to work. Otherwise there's no way to tell when you're allowed to change the triggered abilities she's copying. Something like "At the beginning of your upkeep, choose any number of creatures in the battlefield. Koishi Komeiji has all triggered abilities of those creatures," maybe. And perhaps also a clause to prevent herself from losing this ability permanently if the player doesn't choose her as a target.

Kyouko's Fork-like ability has no cost? I'm guessing it's a CITP ability?

Not sure if Intoxication counters could work as intended. Can counters have rule text? Otherwise, there's nothing in play telling them what they do, and right now I can't remember any other counter type that has its function defined by the game rules themselves. Hm.

Medicine and Parsee look way too dark thanks to the transparent frame combined with extremely dark art. Parsee's text is still legible. Medicine's not so much.

Myouren Temple: "Creature spells" instead of "Creatures spells".

Night Watch Captain: again, the second ability could be templated as Protector 2.

Reckless Researcher: "lose one life" instead of "take one damage"? That damage would have no source otherwise, and it reads a bit awkward.

Roaring Hexbreaker: "Beasts you cast" --> "Beast spells you cast". Probably.

Rooftop Archers: "Deal" --> "Rooftop Archers deals".

Scarlet Mist: "all creatures" --> "each creature", I guess. Same for Suzuran Volley and World in Flames, there are probably other instances of the same thing that I've missed.

Romanization consistency alert! Hinanai vs. Tewi, round one, fight!

Yukari probably needs some templating, too: "exile Yukari until end of turn: effect" --> "exile Yukari: effect. Return Yukari to the battlefield at the end of turn." The second ability affects every exiled card, not only the ones exiled by Yukari, is that right?

Preliminary balance and rarity issues which may or may not be completely wrong, mostly in a "note to self, remember to test this" format, plus some random thoughts:

Spoiler

Baited Trap looks like a colorless Bitterblossom which doesn't eat at your life, and Bitterblossom was crazy enough as it was. The "must attack" drawback could balance this, needs serious testing. And it's a common? Drafting multiples of this could be Fun in the Dwarf Fortress sense of the word. For the other players, of course .

Bladed Palisades = colorless, MUCH better Glorious Anthem for just +1 CMC. Sounds dangerous on paper. Also common, youch. Maybe it should only affect Humans?

On the other hand, Blessing of the Departed looks terrible to me. Could do with becoming an Instant, and even then...

Breath of Autumn looks like a damn nuisance in Limited. Uncommon, thankfully. Ability is probably a bit undercosted, needs testing.

Boy, have Spiders got powerful since I last played... Giant Spider is crying in its web, mumbling about how all those young upstarts have left her without a job. Poor Giant Spider...

Burning Resolve's a Mythic Rare? It's just a glorified removal spell (and a expensive one at that), unless you cast it on Meiling or any other multi-blocker. Compare with Smite. This whole cycle could probably become regular Rares without much issue, if there's space at that rarity slot (haven't counted).

Oh boy, Hijiri + Burning Curiosity + Unacceptable Discovery...

Charging Packleader, Call of the Forest, Raijuu, Roaring Hexbreaker, Sage of the Wilds, Reckless Herd, Swarming Vipers (common!), Flamebelcher (common!) and Nurturing Leafhide (common 3/3 for 3 with trample and a bonus!) are making me even more scared of Baited Trap now... RG Beast aggro deck is a go! It even has quick post-Wrath recovery in Vipers and Trap itself, wow.

Exclusive Interview could be damn powerful in any kind of multiplayer game.

Fantasy Seal is potentially an instant, one-sided, exiling Wrath of God for +1 CMC. Sounds dangerous. Then again, it can be played around. Must test.

Infamous Brewmaster at common looks dangerous for Limited, too. Test!

Must build a Kappa-Device deck for giggles. I'm sure it will fail spectacularly, but hey, kappas! Also, lol contraptions.

Mysterious Palanquin is Tinker's mean, ugly and a bit more expensive brother. Could be completely bahroken if combined with Urza's or Mirrodin's most expensive and powerful artifacts. Or Hisoutensoku .

Thank Suwako there's no storm in the set, otherwise Subterranean Sun would be an auto-ban in Block Constructed . Still scary, though.

Tengu Vanguard is probably undercosted by 0.5-1 CMC. Compare with Viashino Bladescout and Benalish Knight. 2R sounds fair, 1RR probably too much, could deal with RR.

In a control deck (or that Izzet Tengu deck I'm fantasizing about), Voile basically reads "draw your whole deck in two or three turns". Must test. If needed, could be balanced if the draw ability could only be used as a sorcery.

Weight of 495 Years = most flavourful aura evah. Congrats.

Wicked Phantom: I don't remember Black getting 3/3s with two beneficial abilities for 3, even less at common... 2BB, perhaps?

I'm gonna have a lot of fun with this, I think .

[Cogwheel]

Hoo boy. Words. That said, thanks for the help!

Spoiler

There's a missing word "cast" in And Then There Were None after "additional cost to". How I missed this in my first look, I don't know... Same goes for most cards with additional costs, now that I get to them (Distract, Disorienting Shift...).

Thanks. I'll get right on that.

Burning Resolve's first bonus to blocking creatures could be written as "Protector 3", right?

It could! This is deliberate, though, so it stacks with Protector. Let's face it, Protector is often Bushido only useless. Humans need some nice support.

Double-Barreled Throw: should be "target creatures".

Fixing.

Hail of Bullets should probably read "deals 5 damage divided as you choose among up to two target creatures with flying".

Hmm. Something of a nerf (maybe), but I like it better. Will do.

Koishi's ability probably needs a trigger of some sort to work. Otherwise there's no way to tell when you're allowed to change the triggered abilities she's copying. Something like "At the beginning of your upkeep, choose any number of creatures in the battlefield. Koishi Komeiji has all triggered abilities of those creatures," maybe. And perhaps also a clause to prevent herself from losing this ability permanently if the player doesn't choose her as a target.

Oh. Yeah, that's a much better way to word it, thanks. I wasn't entirely happy with the wording but didn't know how to improve it. This is way better.

Kyouko's Fork-like ability has no cost? I'm guessing it's a CITP ability?

It is. And I forgot to mention that, apparently.

Must have been distracted by the saxophone.

Not sure if Intoxication counters could work as intended. Can counters have rule text? Otherwise, there's nothing in play telling them what they do, and right now I can't remember any other counter type that has its function defined by the game rules themselves. Hm.

Here's one case where I got it right. Technically, I reckon +1/+1 counters count, but even aside from that, poison counters. New Phyrexia even has little token-esque cards for those with its own rules text. We're good.

Medicine and Parsee look way too dark thanks to the transparent frame combined with extremely dark art. Parsee's text is still legible. Medicine's not so much.

I'll crank up the opacity a bit for those two, then. Sorry.

Myouren Temple: "Creature spells" instead of "Creatures spells".

Good point. Fixing.

Night Watch Captain: again, the second ability could be templated as Protector 2.

Again, meant to stack. Otherwise he's useless for a good few humans in Limited.

Reckless Researcher: "lose one life" instead of "take one damage"? That damage would have no source otherwise, and it reads a bit awkward.

Damage seems more fitting. Maybe if the researcher deals them or something. I'll change it one way or another.

Roaring Hexbreaker: "Beasts you cast" --> "Beast spells you cast". Probably.

Actually, it's "control players you reduce to tears of abject despair", but yeah. Fixing, thanks. In case it's not clear, the downside here is that it's shroud, not hexproof. A few nice spells for beasts happen to target.

Rooftop Archers: "Deal" --> "Rooftop Archers deals".

Yes. I am so, so bad at this one.

Scarlet Mist: "all creatures" --> "each creature", I guess. Same for Suzuran Volley and World in Flames, there are probably other instances of the same thing that I've missed.

Fixiiiiiing.

Romanization consistency alert! Hinanai vs. Tewi, round one, fight!

I'm just blatantly going with whichever I like the sound of, here. If it was really down to favouritism, Tenshi wouldn't even be in this set, but that's neither here nor there.

Yukari probably needs some templating, too: "exile Yukari until end of turn: effect" --> "exile Yukari: effect. Return Yukari to the battlefield at the end of turn." The second ability affects every exiled card, not only the ones exiled by Yukari, is that right?

That's correct, yes.

Hate official wording shenanigans so much.

Baited Trap looks like a colorless Bitterblossom which doesn't eat at your life, and Bitterblossom was crazy enough as it was. The "must attack" drawback could balance this, needs serious testing. And it's a common? Drafting multiples of this could be Fun in the Dwarf Fortress sense of the word. For the other players, of course .

Mein gott. You're right. This is terrible and I am terrible. Meant to make this "if you control less creatures than your opponent" as a Stampede-enabler. Still good, I think, but not ridiculous.

Bladed Palisades = colorless, MUCH better Glorious Anthem for just +1 CMC. Sounds dangerous on paper. Also common, youch. Maybe it should only affect Humans?

...Ah. Yes. Either only Humans or, to make it less narrow, "blocking creatures you control get Protector 2 until end of turn." Think I'll go with the latter.

On the other hand, Blessing of the Departed looks terrible to me. Could do with becoming an Instant, and even then...

I was costing it conservatively based on the crazy things that could happen with spirits and especially Transient Wisp. Oh well. WW instant?

Breath of Autumn looks like a damn nuisance in Limited. Uncommon, thankfully. Ability is probably a bit undercosted, needs testing.

This is actually pretty much a clone of some Lorwyn merrow or the other.

Boy, have Spiders got powerful since I last played... Giant Spider is crying in its web, mumbling about how all those young upstarts have left her without a job. Poor Giant Spider...

Yeah, but keep Giant Spider in mind and soon I'll be balancing black fliers against not making Chimney Imp sad.

Burning Resolve's a Mythic Rare? It's just a glorified removal spell (and a expensive one at that), unless you cast it on Meiling or any other multi-blocker. Compare with Smite. This whole cycle could probably become regular Rares without much issue, if there's space at that rarity slot (haven't counted).

Mostly based on what it could do. And that cycle is mythic mostly because something had to be. That, and a few spells in there (And Then There Were None comes to mind) seem like mythic material to me.

Oh boy, Hijiri + Burning Curiosity + Unacceptable Discovery...

Those first two. Congratulations, you've already combined the two goofiest effects in the set.

Really though, Hijiri and Burning Curiosity are so silly. Though I prefer mixing BC with Consecrated Sphinx, myself.

Charging Packleader, Call of the Forest, Raijuu, Roaring Hexbreaker, Sage of the Wilds, Reckless Herd, Swarming Vipers (common!), Flamebelcher (common!) and Nurturing Leafhide (common 3/3 for 3 with trample and a bonus!) are making me even more scared of Baited Trap now... RG Beast aggro deck is a go! It even has quick post-Wrath recovery in Vipers and Trap itself, wow.

Yeah, I picked up on that too. Then again... well, RG needs help. Badly. It also, unlike the other big tribes, lacks out-of-limited support for the most part. And besides, I grade rarity based on how quickly it ends games in Limited/how weird the effect is/how big and flashy it is regardless of practicality. I've always loathed the "good cards should be rare and commons should be horrible" approach.

But yeah, beasts will probably be pretty great. Surprised you didn't mention Roaring- oh wait you did. Carry on (and by the way, Beasts also don't get legendaries, which is big.)

Exclusive Interview could be damn powerful in any kind of multiplayer game.

So could Parsee. Forget multiplayer in general, a lot of the set could be seen as "Commander players, you're welcome", however unintentionally.

Fantasy Seal is potentially an instant, one-sided, exiling Wrath of God for +1 CMC. Sounds dangerous. Then again, it can be played around. Must test.

For some reason I kept thinking this was balanced. I'll keep an eye on it and maybe make it 6CMC.

Infamous Brewmaster at common looks dangerous for Limited, too. Test!

Entirely intentional, actually. Rarities only matter in drafts, even in Limited. By itself, Brewmaster is far from noteworthy. It's needed to make ogres viable in Limited, and they are, themselves, uncommon and up. There are no ogres at common. So yeah, they're hardly a force to be reckoned with in drafts because you won't really get many at all.

Must build a Kappa-Device deck for giggles. I'm sure it will fail spectacularly, but hey, kappas! Also, lol contraptions.

Had to be done, really. I'm still quite happy with Doomsday Mechanist for winning with no justification or explanation beyond "because science". Nitori too, for being a blue, functioning Steamflogger Boss.

Mysterious Palanquin is Tinker's mean, ugly and a bit more expensive brother. Could be completely bahroken if combined with Urza's or Mirrodin's most expensive and powerful artifacts. Or Hisoutensoku .

Pretty much, yeah. It's the only incident spell that makes me at all nervous, but hopefully it's not too bad. It's actually more like Shape Anew, only sans sacrifice and potentially repeatable.

Thank Suwako there's no storm in the set, otherwise Subterranean Sun would be an auto-ban in Block Constructed . Still scary, though.

Could be scary, yeah. I really want it to exist, though, so at most it'll get the drawback cranked up. Do bear in mind that red will either have no creatures that can survive Subterranean Sun, or be at a stage where it's no longer useful, aside from the first turn. Generally, anyway. And in burn, of course, the issue is cards, not mana.

Further proof that stapling Sorrow's Path to a card auto-balances it.

Tengu Vanguard is probably undercosted by 0.5-1 CMC. Compare with Viashino Bladescout and Benalish Knight. 2R sounds fair, 1RR probably too much, could deal with RR.

You make an excellent point. It won't be a huge deal even at 1R, I think. Not that sort of card. It is better than it should be, though, so call it RR for now.

In a control deck (or that Izzet Tengu deck I'm fantasizing about), Voile basically reads "draw your whole deck in two or three turns". Must test. If needed, could be balanced if the draw ability could only be used as a sorcery.

If by Izzet you mean red/blue, that is pretty much the tribe.

And yes, aware of Voile. Make it sorcery-speed, maybe? I was trying to make an (admittedly power-creeped a bit to account for sets since) artifact form of Tomoya the Revealer, but maybe I failed. Sorcery speed sounds good. To be fair, until you get it working, it's an overpriced Spellbook. But yeah, sorcery speed and test. If it turns out to be too good, increase activation cost to 6.

Weight of 495 Years = most flavourful aura evah. Congrats.

Thank you. Little hint for you: The madness counters don't actually go away. This means that going blue for self-bounce is wonderful. It also, on a more depressing note, means you never get better from this.

Wicked Phantom: I don't remember Black getting 3/3s with two beneficial abilities for 3, even less at common... 2BB, perhaps?

Good point. 2BB, or I could make it... actually let's just make it a 2/2.

I'm gonna have a lot of fun with this, I think .

Excellent. I'll have it fixed up tonight, release a new spoiler, and probably have the ports (at least for OCTGN/Lackey) done within 24 hours, so it won't be a terribly long wait. Glad to hear you're looking forward to it, anyway. Thanks for the help!

[NeonBlack]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

Hoo boy. Words. That said, thanks for the help!

That took me the best part of three hours to write, it better be long . And you're welcome!

About those blocking bonuses stacking with Protector: don't multiple instances of Protector stack with each other, anyway? Bushido does, for example, and each instance would trigger separately, effectively giving the creature the sum of both Protector bonuses. For example, some random Human dood could end with its own Protector 2 ability plus Protector 3 from Burning Resolve, thus getting +2/+2 and +3/+3 when blocking.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by NeonBlack

That took me the best part of three hours to write, it better be long . And you're welcome!

About those blocking bonuses stacking with Protector: don't multiple instances of Protector stack with each other, anyway? Bushido does, for example, and each instance would trigger separately, effectively giving the creature the sum of both Protector bonuses. For example, some random Human dood could end with its own Protector 2 ability plus Protector 3 from Burning Resolve, thus getting +2/+2 and +3/+3 when blocking.

...I was not aware. I assumed that, for example, Protector 3 and Protector 2 would result in a creature with Protector 3.

Fixing that now. And by the way, I just finished implementing all fixes. New spoiler will be up in 20 or so.

P.S. I am so glad to see someone playing something besides faeries.

Edit: New version here.

[Cogwheel]

Oookay. Lackey port should work. Doesn't. OCTGN has an exporter for 2.0 but not 3.0. Also out. Cockatrice doesn't work.

This leaves us with, unless a friend of mine manages to make a port/custom plugin for Lackey, Magic Workstation. Cons for MWS include it costing $30, not working on macs, and taking up 3GB. It's pretty much the worst option possible, but it's also looking to be the only one unless the Lackey port meets some unexpected success.

Sorry about this, didn't expect everything to fall through quite so badly. If anyone wants to play the set and doesn't have MWS, PM me and I'll try to work something out.

[NeonBlack]

Ew, that sucks. Well, I do have MWS installed somewhere, and from what I've seen the program hasn't been updated in the last eight years (one would imagine that charging money for it would mean that they keep it constantly updated, but nooo), so I guess I'm good to go as soon as I update the MTG database.

Also, wow, 3GB? That's with all the card images from past sets, I guess?

In other Touhou-related news, Reitaisai 9 is probably closing down as I write. I'm tremendously excited to hear what Taka has cooked up in CROW'SCLAW's return to the Touhou world. More xi-on and Buta-Otome is always a very good thing, too.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by NeonBlack

Ew, that sucks. Well, I do have MWS installed somewhere, and from what I've seen the program hasn't been updated in the last eight years (one would imagine that charging money for it would mean that they keep it constantly updated, but nooo), so I guess I'm good to go as soon as I update the MTG database.

Oh, you actually have it? Handy. Want me to throw a few precons together in the event that the port succeeds? No reason why it shouldn't, but at this point, I'm not comfortable with promising anything beyond "the existence of this set will not cause your monitor to explode".

Also, wow, 3GB? That's with all the card images from past sets, I guess?

OCTGN is the same. Compare to Cockatrice and Lackey, at 50 MB or so. Whatever their excuse, it can't be a good one.

In other Touhou-related news, Reitaisai 9 is probably closing down as I write. I'm tremendously excited to hear what Taka has cooked up in CROW'SCLAW's return to the Touhou world. More xi-on and Buta-Otome is always a very good thing, too.

Wait, closing? Didn't it start today? Or is it only one day long?

[NeonBlack]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

Oh, you actually have it? Handy. Want me to throw a few precons together in the event that the port succeeds? No reason why it shouldn't, but at this point, I'm not comfortable with promising anything beyond "the existence of this set will not cause your monitor to explode".

Go for it. I can't promise much testing today or tomorrow, though. Or for most of next week, now that I think about it. Those darn Japanese exams need some attention.

Wait, closing? Didn't it start today? Or is it only one day long?

Yep, just one day (May 27th). Not big enough to require multiple days like Comiket does, I guess.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by NeonBlack

Go for it. I can't promise much testing today or tomorrow, though. Or for most of next week, now that I think about it. Those darn Japanese exams need some attention.

Oh, I see. Good luck, then!

Yep, just one day (May 27th). Not big enough to require multiple days like Comiket does, I guess.

Makes sense. I just checked their lineup: Only one circle I care about at all, and game (expansion to Sky Arena) that... well, it seems good and all, but the voice acting is painful. Think I'll avoid it.

[Volatar]

I'll grab the softwares in question and see if I can figure out any of the problems your having porting those cards around.

[Prime32]

Well, other notable stuff:
Memories of Phantasm 3
Musou Kakyou ep2 trailer
Inanimate Dream (SOUND-HOLIC)
CROW'S CLAW album
Ancient Temple (O-Life Japan)
Whatever the heck this is

Also, ZUN's wedding.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by Volatar

I'll grab the softwares in question and see if I can figure out any of the problems your having porting those cards around.

Nah, don't bother with that. It's joined the list of failed ideas, for one reason or another, along with absolutely everything else.

At this point there's a very good chance that this one step means the entire project is very, very dead.

[Volatar]

Originally Posted by Cogwheel

At this point there's a very good chance that this one step means the entire project is very, very dead.

Not a chance in hell.

I will make it work. Or I'll make something to work for it.

[Cogwheel]

Originally Posted by Volatar

Not a chance in hell.

I will make it work. Or I'll make something to work for it.

And so he did. All hail Volatar.


Files here. Lackey, complete with Magic plugin, regular Magic cards and this set. There will probably be a simpler way to go about it in future, but for now, just grab that. Oh, and if you already have Lackey, maybe copy your deck folder over so you don't lose that.

[Volatar]

Took me about four hours to get that working. I had to use my space wizardry to open a portal all the way to Gensokyo to get Alice's help on it. She might be enslaving the human race while she is here. Sorry about that. Can't be helped.

I'll be writing the definitive guide to porting MSE sets into Lackey soon so everyone else will benefit.

But first I must sleep. Have fun you guys.

[Cogwheel]

Again, thanks for your help, Volatar. Really saved the day there.


A note of caution to anyone using this: Everything will go haywire in matches against anyone who doesn't have the Touhou set. Even if no cards from it are being used. Don't keep this as your only copy of Lackey if you plan on playing against anyone who will lack the set.


Preconstructed decks are on the way. Watch this space.


Edit: Precons.

Tengu

Spoiler

9 Mountain
9 Island
4 Youkai Mountain
2 Aya Shameimaru
2 Hatate Himekaidou
3 Tenma's Will
2 Daitengu Archives
3 Blazing Wheel
4 Forbidding Gale
3 Enlightening Discussion
3 Enforced Silence
2 Burning Curiosity
3 Tengu Scout
3 Mountaintop Archivist
2 Tengu Murder-Captain
3 Daitengu Loremaster
3 Swathcutter Wolf
2 Gleamfang Enforcer

Faeries

Spoiler

8 Island
8 Forest
4 Misty Lake
2 Flower Sprite
4 Wing-Gift Pixie
3 Breath of Autumn
4 Boundless Energy
3 Bombardment Sprite
2 Daiyousei
3 Distract
4 Faerie Captain
4 Fluttering Mob
3 Faerie Treasure Hunter
2 Collective Might
3 Flawless Prank
3 Pesterhoard

Oni

Spoiler

10 mountain
8 forest
4 forest of magic
2 Suika Ibuki
2 Yuugi the Strong
4 Infamous Brewmaster
4 Partying Oni
4 Subterranean Sun
3 Fist of Unzan
3 Blazing Wheel
3 Oni Barkeep
3 Little Pandemonium
2 Double-Barreled Throw
3 Prankster's Salvage
3 Life of the Party
4 Rich Harvest

If any of these seem, well, far from perfect, that's intentional. More room for tinkering. This is just to get you started if you don't want to make your own from scratch.

If anyone still wants the spoiler for whatever reason, once again, it's here.


And since I didn't do this before, thanks to everyone who helped:

Moel (MoelVermillion on these forums) for being my editor/voice of sanity, and generally putting up with all this. Even if I did manage to do this alone, it would've been a far inferior result, and I probably would have given up already at several points. Making most of my favourite cards in the set was pretty great too.

Volatar, for the port and generally saving the day.

All the artists whose work I used. Wish I could've contacted more of them.

Variations on the theme of Hatate/you-change-your-name-too-often and Ryan, for helping to sort out some cards, contributing a couple more, and listening to me rattle off a whole bunch of ideas.

Memnarch, for finding a couple really good pictures.

The academy, on the whole, hasn't done a great deal to help. I'm pretty comfortable with ignoring them.

[NeonBlack]

Oh wow. Here I came prepared to help prevent some kind of disaster and I find it all solved and working. Great job guys . And we're not using MWS in the end, which is another plus!

Now I must resist the temptation to grab the files and a precon and start messing with it, at least until tomorrow evening. Damn exams.