Orc/Goblinoid Resources

[Bhu]

you mean protective items or PrC's or something? Goblin Mom?

[Bleak Ink]

Goblin Mom sounds awesome.

[Draconi Redfir]

Goblins are supposed to have tons of children at a time right? (No offence ink)

What about an NPC class called "the swarmer" or something which is physically weak by itself, but focuses in attacking in large numbers, taking the saying "the more of you there are, the less likely it will be for you individually to get hit" to the max.


or perhaps a goblin class that gets automatic leadership feats, but very little in terms of upgrades (say 1d4 hit die, 2+int skill points, very low BAB and saves etc) but makes up for it by leading a slowly growing army of low-level goblins (That share some/all of his class levels?) which each get one attack or move action (one or the other, not both) per round, and grant the swarmer +1 AC per living goblin follower.

Though that might count too much as playing multiple characters, so maybe a basic "swarm goblin" creature would be better, perhaps acting as a single "animal goblin companion" which gets the attack and movement freedom of a normal animal companion, but gets ever so slightly more powerful with each "goblin" added to it. (as in say one goblin in the swarm would get BAB +1, damage of +1, and 1d4 hitpoints, but three goblins in the swarm a few levels later would have +3 BAB, +3 bonus damage, and 3d4 hitpoints.)


Hmm, might need to work on myself if it's not as bad as i think it is. Though i still haven’t written out the text and fluff for those weapons i posted awhile ago outside of the posted image. (Someone tell me to do that or something, i need a push!)

[Bleak Ink]

The "litter" idea of goblin childbearing never made much sense to me. There's not enough food and health in a tribe/lair's environment to support 3-6 offspring a pregnancy per female. Every pregnant woman in the group requiring enough food to supply four to seven people at a time for her consumption alone? With the frequency of pregnancies? And her previously birthed litters still depending on adults? Not to mention the terrific increase of possible problems in each brewing/bearing, and the subsequent raising each of them at the same exact time. I don't believe it could be done, not with typical goblin resources. That's just my take. It is considered weird to not have what other races consider a large family, however.

[Draconi Redfir]

i never said anything about litters, i just figured goblins just reproduced very quickly, say they are born, grow to self-functioning maturity in about a year, and then the mother gives birth to another child, sending the previous child out to fend for itself, if it's not strong enough to survive, then it dies.

That or Goblins have the "more sons i have more food i can harvest" mindset of many farmers, only replace "farm" with "hunt". Or they just cannibalize their dead, though even i couldn't see goblins doing that.

edit: after thinking about that hobgoblin cleric from the founding of gobbotopia who had a little brother while still a child, i realized it might be possible that mature goblins still live with their mother/parents for awhile after becoming mature, they are simply expected to get their own food and will not be provided for without good reason (i.e. they might get special treatment if they know how to heal or do magic or something) though then again (again) as i was writing this i realized that the hobgoblin cleric was a hobgoblin, not a goblin, so this entire paragraph simply became a waste except to explain a half-arsed theory that a family of goblins might still stare a home but not provide for anyone but the mother without good reason.

[Cieyrin]

This is assuming the gobbos even normally have adequate food for themselves. Gobbos are hunter-gatherer types from what I can tell, often scavenging from the more civilized races for anything and everything, including carrion. Pregnant females would take more food, it's true, but I'm thinking that in the litter model of goblin reproduction that there's probably a high infant mortality rate and thus they want to produce many children so that at least a couple make it to adulthood. Any stillborns or miscarriages, runts or accidents are...well, not put to waste, let's put it that way.

There was quite a bit of detail in the first part of the Reverse Dungeon module on goblin society that could be useful in figuring a lot of this out. If you can get access to it, it's an interesting read, even if it's 2nd Ed.

[Bhu]

There's also their religion which pushes them to declare war on virtually every other race in existence. If you're at war permanently you'll need lots of kids to make up for casualties in adults

[Bleak Ink]

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir

...

Ah, apologies. I read "at a time" as meaning "the same time", and am still post-traumatic from reading several articles by seperate authors on how goblins are like cats: mate with random people at a time, and the women birth several children usually with different fathers from the same pregnancy. The essays themselves were pretty offensive, but I digress.

I do see grown goblins sharing space with their extended family, even if their group has adopted seperate living spaces opposed to everybody sleeping/eating communally. It makes it easier to remember who is related to who and how, and the "strength in numbers" thing applies no matter what.

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

This is assuming the gobbos even normally have adequate food for themselves. Gobbos are hunter-gatherer types from what I can tell, often scavenging from the more civilized races for anything and everything, including carrion. Pregnant females would take more food, it's true, but I'm thinking that in the litter model of goblin reproduction that there's probably a high infant mortality rate and thus they want to produce many children so that at least a couple make it to adulthood. Any stillborns or miscarriages, runts or accidents are...well, not put to waste, let's put it that way.

High infant mortality rate, absolutely, but I can't help but think hunter-gatherers prone to scavaging couldn't provide the resources and proper medical care so a woman with six embryos wouldn't die, each offspring with her. There's so much room for error in a situation like that.

There was quite a bit of detail in the first part of the Reverse Dungeon module on goblin society that could be useful in figuring a lot of this out. If you can get access to it, it's an interesting read, even if it's 2nd Ed.

I'll have to remember that name and look for it, it sounds quite interesting indeed. Thank you kindly for bringing it up; I wouldn't have known to otherwise, and I live for this stuff.

Originally Posted by Bhu

There's also their religion which pushes them to declare war on virtually every other race in existence. If you're at war permanently you'll need lots of kids to make up for casualties in adults

This is true, if they follow Magly- and they usually do.

[Draconi Redfir]

It's just so hard to know any facts about anything in D&D since things are always being added, removed, retconed, or altered from version to version, world to world.

Sometimes i wonder if it wouldn't be better (From a lore point of view anyways) if all of D&D was only in one fully-fleshed out world rather then hundreds.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir

It's just so hard to know any facts about anything in D&D since things are always being added, removed, retconed, or altered from version to version, world to world.

Sometimes i wonder if it wouldn't be better (From a lore point of view anyways) if all of D&D was only in one fully-fleshed out world rather then hundreds.

Variety is the spice of life. Having a difference between worlds is a nice way to flesh things out so it doesn't all become same old. In any case, neither TSR or WotC has ever been really known for their consistency in fluff between authors.

[Draconi Redfir]

yeah i know haveing veriety is more interesting when playing games and things, but in terms of lore and biology of fake species it is better to have one setting set in stone so you don't have two players of the same species haveing compleately diffrent ideas on how their biology and culture works.

[Bleak Ink]

Frankly I think that's part of the fun. Everything's so versatile; there's literally something for everyone. Not to mention nobody can just declare another person wrong in terms of lore, because no matter how mad an idea is it can be done. I get what you mean, though- it could get problematique if a group was going for seamless roleplay or something and didn't set guidelines beforehand.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir

yeah i know haveing veriety is more interesting when playing games and things, but in terms of lore and biology of fake species it is better to have one setting set in stone so you don't have two players of the same species haveing compleately diffrent ideas on how their biology and culture works.

You'd probably wanna go by Greyhawk fluff, then, which is admittedly kinda sparse these days. If you can get ahold of some of the old box sets, you may find info at least on some of the old pantheons, which typically will tell you something about the culture that worships them.

If nothing else, you could have a look through the Canonfire forums, as they are the gathering place for some of the most knowledgable people on Greyhawk canon, though I'm not sure how much they've done on the orcs and goblins. They pull stuff from old Greyhawk journals and newsletters, as well as email lists and the aforementioned box sets to piece together some of the old mysteries. I especially appreciate what's been done on racial migration patterns and hooking up Greyhawk with the second incarnation of Chainmail. Lots of good fluff there on their specific cultures, which included much detail on the hobgoblin faction, which may be of interest.

[Bhu]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...0086#msg430086

for Bleak and Draconi

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Bhu

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...0086#msg430086

for Bleak and Draconi

That adventure is awesome and now I really want Goblins of Golarion.

[Draconi Redfir]

just sucks its only for level ones.

[Bleak Ink]

Originally Posted by Bhu

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...0086#msg430086

for Bleak and Draconi

Fantastic link, Bhu. Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.. to the bookstore! I must read it, at least.

[Bhu]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...0562#msg430562

one more

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Bleak Ink

Fantastic link, Bhu. Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.. to the bookstore! I must read it, at least.

The PDF is free, y'know.

[Bleak Ink]

Originally Posted by Bhu

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...0562#msg430562

one more

You have a worrying propensity for overconfidence in combat. When facing an enemy that's larger than you, if you have no allies in any adjacent squares, your posturing, bravado, and cussing grant a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with non-reach melee weapons.

I hope the author likes the internet, because he's won one.

Now, that toad-thing on Poog's head.
That, too, is awesome.

Originally Posted by Cieyrin

The PDF is free, y'know.

But reading it at a bookstore gives me an excuse to be in a bookstore.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by Bleak Ink

You have a worrying propensity for overconfidence in combat. When facing an enemy that's larger than you, if you have no allies in any adjacent squares, your posturing, bravado, and cussing grant a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with non-reach melee weapons.

I hope the author likes the internet, because he's won one.

Now, that toad-thing on Poog's head.
That, too, is awesome.



But reading it at a bookstore gives me an excuse to be in a bookstore.

Not sure whether you'll find 'em in bookstores, as they were given away free as part of Free RPG day back in June. Still, bookstores are getting fewer and far between, so any excuse to spend time in one is a good one.

As for the Toad, it's b/c the tribe he's part of the Licktoad tribe, where every goblin has a lucky toad.

[Bhu]

Gas Mask
Abjuration
Level: Sor/ Wiz x
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: Swift Action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 Minute/Level

An invisible field of force covers your head providing you with oxygen and making you immune to tasks based on stench (Ghasts, Stinking Cloud), smoke, or gasses (including some breath weapon). Focus is a miniature representation of a gas mask.

OK here's the spell prerequisite for the Miner's Mask. Any thoughts on level?

[unosarta]

That is actually a pretty powerful spell. Gasses, stenches and other breath related attacks aren't that common, though, but full immunity is still pretty good. Given the duration, and the action, it seems like a 3rd level spell, although that is just my intuition. 4th level might be more appropriate, although I cannot imagine breath related attacks being common enough for this to be anything but situational.

[Bleak Ink]

Fortune favors the prepared.

[Draconi Redfir]

I saw those things at my meetup once, i THOUGHT i took a coppy of the pathfinder goblin thing, but i can't seem to find it anywere so i have no idea.

[Worlok]

Wasn't there something a lot like a breathing mask in Savage Species? I think it was even called a breathing mask, had essentially the same effect, namely providing immunity to inhaled toxins and such.

[Bhu]

I have the book here somewhere lemme go check

[Bleak Ink]

Did you find anything?

[Bhu]

Theres an alchemical item called a Breathing Mask that allows you to breath in non oxygen environments for 4 hours.

[Bleak Ink]

Meh. Not as interesting. I like your one-minute-per-level thing better.