A complete N00bz first try at world-building...

[Wyntonian]

Dude, I love it. That would work in either Marcelena or Marregio. Your pick.

[Eldest]

Why not both? Say that Marcelena has a very quiet, refined version of the district, with everything under the sun that a person could want being down the correct alley and behind the right door, and that Marregio has a more exciting and energetic version. Festivals every month, very active street life throughout the district, everybody involved just enjoying themselves. A lot of this I'm basing off of my memories of Paris and Strasbourg during the Fete de la Musique.
Btw, I'm guessing that all the cities have some sort of red light/pleasure district, it's just in those two cities they are really powerful compared to the others.

[chrisrawr]

I'll probably run with the Bardic Sage variant, into the Storyteller PrC you've listed.

Focus is going to be on being the cryptic old guy.

[Wyntonian]

Originally Posted by Eldest

Why not both? Say that Marcelena has a very quiet, refined version of the district, with everything under the sun that a person could want being down the correct alley and behind the right door, and that Marregio has a more exciting and energetic version. Festivals every month, very active street life throughout the district, everybody involved just enjoying themselves. A lot of this I'm basing off of my memories of Paris and Strasbourg during the Fete de la Musique.
Btw, I'm guessing that all the cities have some sort of red light/pleasure district, it's just in those two cities they are really powerful compared to the others.

That sounds great. I imagine Marregio will draw heavily from New Orleans...

Originally Posted by chrisrawr

I'll probably run with the Bardic Sage variant, into the Storyteller PrC you've listed.

Focus is going to be on being the cryptic old guy.

Wrong thread, sir.

[Eldest]

Originally Posted by Wyntonian

That sounds great. I imagine Marregio will draw heavily from New Orleans...

In part, but maybe also Latin Quarter. Something between this...

Spoiler

and this...

Spoiler

Everything is focused on the street, even the buildings with the balconies and stuff hanging between buildings. Roofs are difficult to get onto, but are workable routes as long as you don't mind taking the road more illegal.

[Wyntonian]

Hm... should I maybe do a unit on architecture?

[Zap Dynamic]

Originally Posted by Wyntonian

Hm... should I maybe do a unit on architecture?

Whenever I think about content, I always try to imagine what I'm going to add to a campaign setting book. With that in mind, I think that weaving the architecture into a few sentences could be really helpful. In general, though, I think that's the sort of thing that would be better left to a campaign. Nothing livens up a game like architecture and the smells of a location.

[Eldest]

This might be of interest to you. Not sure how you're going to use it, but I found it worthwhile enough to read.

[Wyntonian]

Oh, that's really cool. I like that as an alternative to lots of magic items. I might apply that in future games.... I wonder how you would want to alter WBL to suit, though?

[Sallera]

Well, let's do a bit of math....

With a basic set of frontline/skillful/caster builds, I get 4000/4500/4500 at 5th level (of 9000), 39000/30000/31500 at 10th (of 49000), and 144000/148000/149000 at 15th (of 200000). So, half/two-thirds/three-quarters... building organically would probably result in slightly lower totals at higher levels than my quick optimization, so I think you'd be safe giving the players roughly one-third of regular WBL (probably half from 1st to 5th, so they don't want for potions and mundane gear.)

[The Reasoner]

Here's some information for the crimal world in the Dotze Affariata plus some general social stuff - drawn heavily from the Alatriste series of novels & Romeo & Juliett (laugh all you want, the Bard knew his stuff!)


Crime, Trade, Life, and Justice in the Dotze Affariata

Crime & Trade – One and the Same

Trade is the lifeblood of the Dotze Affariata. It provides the gold to pay the Prince’s armies, build great temples to the Good God, and insure the continued rule of the Elect. The great Merchant Houses, who command massive wealth and influence, control almost all trade, legal or illegal, inside the Dotze Affariata. Each of these Merchant Houses consists of a central Family, descended from some of the very first Elect, that then exerts its control over dozens of smaller Families that manage individual components of the House’s business.
An example of these smaller families is the di Marciano’s of Marregio, tied by blood and oath to House Montgadio. The head of the family is Don Alfonso di Marciano, a venerable man who commands a district of Marregio as his personal domain. Beside him are his two brothers, Sebastian and Giovanni. Sebastian di Marciano manages the family’s legal operations, such as collecting rent from the residents of the district and the operation of several businesses in the district. Giovanni controls the illegal side, managing the various gambling dens, brothels, and other unsavory activities within the district.
Don di Marciano’s son and heir, Diego Alvaro di Marciano, serves as the head of the Family’s Spadaccino, swordsmen. The Di Marciano’s have ~30-40 hired swords, predominately Bravos, who serve the family. They wear the family’s livery colors (crimson and dark blue) and help enforce the will of the Familia. They are reinforced with cousins and certain citizens from the di Marciano’s district who have particularly close ties to the family or see themselves threatened by a rival Familia.
Within any major city of the Dotze Affariata there is a constant low-level battle for influence across the various districts. A typical scenario would be something like this: a leatherworker and his family live on the border between the di Marciano district and the di Luccia district. A group of Spadaccino from the di Luccia start hanging around the leatherworkers’ shop and maybe a cousin of the di Luccia’s Don visits the shop. Then the di Marciano’s send some of their Spadaccino to protect their territory. Maybe a duel happens in a back alley or the leatherworker gets a better offer from one side. Based on which side shows the correct amount of muscle and monetary incentive gets control of the leatherworker and can exhort money for ‘protection’ from the man.
This low-level back and forth also consists of ‘vendettas’ between common families. So for example the son from one family has a midnight rendezvous with the daughter of another. That family finds out and the young male relatives (brothers, nephews, cousins) ‘redeem’ the families’ honor by visiting the perpetrator in the night with their knives. (Btw, everybody is armed to some extent. The Dotze Affariata live in a medieval version of Compton and don’t place much faith in the police).
The constant vying between Elect families for influence and control of trade (of all kinds) is allowed to continue because much of the City Watch and Constabulary is taking bribes from one of the relevant families. So there are instances when the police trying to stop a street brawl end up fighting each other alongside the brawlers! Of course society would quickly descend into full-out warfare between Elect Familias if there wasn’t some form of law enforcement. This takes the form of two distinct groups: the Blackcloaks and the Prince’s Men

The Holy Service of Lay-Brothers “The Blackcloaks or the Holy Service”

The Church of the Good God, beyond monitoring the spiritual welfare of the people also concerns itself with their physical welfare. Raised from the orphanages of the Church or amongst those deemed worthy, the Holy Service of Lay-Brothers are a fraternity dedicated to preserving law and order in the lands of the Dotze Affariata. They were all-black uniforms with the distinct black cloak, wide-brimmed hat, and wooden staff beyond the normal weaponry of a Bravos (rapier & dueling dagger). The Blackcloaks rely on intimidation, grit, and a well-developed spy network to keep the various families from outright war. Agents of the Blackcloaks often operate alone or in small groups to pursue their cases (these guys are basically a cross between the Holy Inquisition & a police detective squad).

The Prince's Men

When matters become too dangerous or large for the Blackcloaks to handle then the matter is passed to the reigning Prince of the City. Under his command is his personal Household Guard, drawn from amongst the bravest and most skilled swordsmen in the land. They are called the Prince’s Men, dressed in the livery of their liege-lord (typically a tabard or surcoat). Many a member of the Elect has been stopped from continuing a vendetta by the arrival of a troop of the Prince’s Men looking for an excuse to crack some heads. If matters get incredible out of hand (massive street brawls or outright fighting) then the Prince will send in the men of his Empresas Viejos in full battle array to solve the matter.

Beyond these two groups functions a variety of spies and assassins who insure that the Prince’s Rule remains secure and the Families remain (relatively) at peace. This varies from Prince to Prince and can take many forms. (Aka this can be whatever the hell you want it to be. Have fun)

[Eldest]

Minor issue: you mentioned that the di Marcianos have some brothels, but unless they are the same people as the Arbor family (in which case, they are a bit more benevolent than depicted, at least in my mind) or they quietly declared war on the Arbor family.

I see the Arbor family as being, as a whole, solidly CN. They do have to kill occasionally to protect themselves, of course, but the district prospers under their rule and the city enjoys the district.

[Wyntonian]

That's great dude, thanks! I really appreciate it!

Mind if we retcon out the thing about the brothels? It's kind of a thing, the Arbor family. You can read about it somewhere nearby.

Lastly, I know, Compton, but I feel like the Blackcloaks should maintain an investigative force to look into smuggling and such. Plus, it allows for cop stories/games.


Oh, and Sallera, that looks fabulous! Thanks so much!

[The Reasoner]

Change anything you need to. Sorry about the brothel thing; I was using the di Marciano's as a general example and will probably relocate them to another city since they play a (minor) role in short story I'm working on involving the Valheim-Soleh border, some Valheim mercenaries, and a very pissed off Dawnbringer.

[Eldest]

Uh, them having declared war on the Arbor family is totally fine. Whichever works better.

[Wyntonian]

Oh, yeah, no worries.

Question: The Church proclaims all forms of magic that involve summoning spirits, changing the human form and restricting the mind to be unholy/illegal. Would the Blackcloaks have jurisdiction to hunt down heretics, d'you think?

The cults would be one of their other main targets, I think. Worship of the Old Gods is still pretty prevalent.

On the other hand, some of them could be sanctioned magic-users themselves. Think of Psykers in 40K. Yes, they're evil, yes there's a huge risk, but they're still cool, so we'll put them on a leash and let them work for us.

Also, hand crossbows. Awesome, right? I think the Blackcloaks should carry them. Just for that awesome whirling-cloak-flies-up-shoot-from-the-hip moment.

[Eldest]

Originally Posted by Wyntonian

Question: The Church proclaims all forms of magic that involve summoning spirits, changing the human form and restricting the mind to be unholy/illegal. Would the Blackcloaks have jurisdiction to hunt down heretics, d'you think?

How bureaucratically do they think? In other words, would they arrest somebody for changing somebodies form from living to dead with magic (as opposed to just charging them with murder)? But yeah, the Blackcloaks should be the ones hunting down the church's enemies. Bonus points if lynch mobs show up from time to time.

[Wyntonian]

Originally Posted by Eldest

How bureaucratically do they think? In other words, would they arrest somebody for changing somebodies form from living to dead with magic (as opposed to just charging them with murder)? But yeah, the Blackcloaks should be the ones hunting down the church's enemies. Bonus points if lynch mobs show up from time to time.

No, killing people is ok. (Well, no, it's not, but you're not any more of a **** if you do it with magic). Turning someone into an animal, torture that deforms the body, that sort of thing. If it's Lovecraft-approved, they send a Blackcloak after it.

This is a relatively new faith, and is still pretty flexible. Not tolerant or forgiving, but not bogged down in centuries of "divinely-inspired" bureaucracy.

[The Reasoner]

Originally Posted by Wyntonian

Oh, yeah, no worries.

Question: The Church proclaims all forms of magic that involve summoning spirits, changing the human form and restricting the mind to be unholy/illegal. Would the Blackcloaks have jurisdiction to hunt down heretics, d'you think?

The cults would be one of their other main targets, I think. Worship of the Old Gods is still pretty prevalent.

On the other hand, some of them could be sanctioned magic-users themselves. Think of Psykers in 40K. Yes, they're evil, yes there's a huge risk, but they're still cool, so we'll put them on a leash and let them work for us.

Also, hand crossbows. Awesome, right? I think the Blackcloaks should carry them. Just for that awesome whirling-cloak-flies-up-shoot-from-the-hip moment.

Oh, most definately. These guys are actually just a shamelessly ripe-off of the agents of the Holy Office of the Spanish Inquistion. I presume that they're primary job is hunting down heretics. That also means that when they need to take down a high-ranking Elect for crimes they can do so under the veil of hunting for Heretics. And yes, I'd presume they have sanctioned magic-users whose job is to counter-act reneage magic users.

Finally hand crossbows would be awesome. Definately par for the course with these guys. I'm tempted to include a elite unit that's only used in dire circumstances that function like a medieval SWAT team aka bunch of dudes in full plate with a sanctioned mage who are trained to deal with all sorts of wierdness (think out-of-control magic users, taking down a renegade member of the Elect, etc.)

Oh, and here's a screen cap from the film Alatriste that shows what I drew inspiration from:

Spoiler

[Wyntonian]

Originally Posted by The Reasoner

Oh, most definately. These guys are actually just a shamelessly ripe-off of the agents of the Holy Office of the Spanish Inquistion. I presume that they're primary job is hunting down heretics. That also means that when they need to take down a high-ranking Elect for crimes they can do so under the veil of hunting for Heretics. And yes, I'd presume they have sanctioned magic-users whose job is to counter-act reneage magic users.

Finally hand crossbows would be awesome. Definately par for the course with these guys. I'm tempted to include a elite unit that's only used in dire circumstances that function like a medieval SWAT team aka bunch of dudes in full plate with a sanctioned mage who are trained to deal with all sorts of wierdness (think out-of-control magic users, taking down a renegade member of the Elect, etc.)

Oh, and here's a screen cap from the film Alatriste that shows what I drew inspiration from:

Spoiler

Yes, Indeed, Yes and AWESOME! I like this a lot! Well done, sir.

[Wyntonian]

Here we go, the result of a couple boring lunch breaks...

The story of Totally-Not-A-Galvarino-Expy

Spoiler

For many years, since the Age of Darkness, the nomadic Piloti have traveled the arid plains to the West of Soleh, answering to no authority but their own. Hunting the gazelles, buffalo and lion of the plains, they are the best horsemen in Patria, born and raised in the saddle. They are also fiercely independent, refusing any attempt to “civilize” them by any outside forces.

Sankari was not an exceptional person. He was just barely a man when the Yellow Priests came to his tribe’s winter home. Nobody stood and fought, preferring instead to listen to what the strange newcomers from the land of sunrise had to say. They taught of medicine, of the marking of shapes upon paper for the storing of thoughts, of a strange grey metal that pierced the hides of buffalo like a bronze through water. More than anything else, they taught of the Father in the Sun. Many of the Elders did not like this talk of a Sun-god watching them, but they did see that more of their newborns lived, and so they remained silent. The next winter, Sankari’s people found a large house, big enough to fit his whole tribe, near their winter home, which the Yellow Priests called Fort. Many men lived there, all warriors of the Father in the Sun. This winter, though, the Yellow Priests were not as kind. They told the tribe that they were all to be blessed and become servants of the Sky-Father, so that he would would watch over them and guide them in the hunt. The tribe was put in a line, with warriors all around them. The Yellow Priests walked down the line, daubing ash on the foreheads of his people and saying words in a strange tongue.

As they reached him, he stepped back, refusing to be marked. The one who had learned their tongue smiled, asking what was the matter. Sankari refused to respond, and at the direction of the smiling priest, two warriors in hard, shining shirts led him to a wooden block and forced him to his knees. The priest kneeled before him again, and made his options clear. Accept the benediction, or lose a hand. Without a word, Sankari stretched his arm across the block. One of the warrior’s swords slashed down, and his hand fell free. Without making a sound, he laid his other arm across the block. With the slightest of hesitation, the sword came down again. pulling free of the warrior restraining him, he laid his head across the block. The priest did not have him killed, however. He was sent back to his tribe, as a symbol of what became of those who resisted them, and the Yellow Priests returned to Fort. The two warriors who led him back to his tribe’s village never made it home, though none but Sankari touched them.

Half-dead from shock and loss of blood and carrying two swords, Sankari’s wounds were bound, and he told his story. As he filled his people’s hearts with fire and rage, they left behind the hospitality they once felt for the Yellow Priests. As the people were preparing to assault the fort, a lone hunter returned from the wilderness. He told of a long column of troops, numbering in the thousands, marching towards the fort, three days march away.

As Sankari’s people prepared to fight, Sankari himself ventured into the fierce blizzards of the high plains on foot. The nearest winter camp was four days ride away during the summer, and almost impossible to reach on foot during a blizzard. Nevertheless, when the hundred warriors of Sankari’s tribe reached the point from which they were going to attack, Sankari was there, with the warriors of two dozen tribes. Mounted upon a horse as white as the snow on which it stood, and with the swords of the two warriors strapped to the stumps of his arms, he organized his troops to attack the column, now only an hour away.

Yet despite his miraculous success in bringing together the many tribes of the Piloti, there were those who questioned his right to lead, never having completed the Four Tasks of a war chief. Rather than argue, Sankari took a companion and rode over the next rise. Moments later, he returned, an unconscious scout of the Yellow Priests across his saddlebow, the man’s horse following behind and the man’s sword thrust through Sankari’s belt. Having seen him complete the Four Tasks in just moments, no others questioned his leadership

When the troops arrived, thousands upon thousands strong, they were caught by surprise by the hordes of screaming warriors, with bows, hunting lances and tomahawks charging down from the hills. The troops reacted with drilled grace, forming into armored blocks, the back ranks throwing short, heavy spears and the forward ranks layering their shields and stabbing with short, wide swords, but they could not match the ferocity and fire of the charging horsemen.

Once the battle was well underway, however, a bugle sounded and a troop of knights in shining plate, brandishing swords and lances rode towards the flank of the Piloti. Sankari quickly selected his bravest warriors and charged, meeting the force of knights head-on. At some point in the battle, the unarmored warrior cut down the Priest-Lord who commanded the force, cast down their sun banner and slew more than a dozen of the most elite cavalry in the world. During this fight, his body was pierced by many spears and swords, but still he fought on. Eventually, at great cost to the Piloti warriors, the troops of the Yellow Priests were forced into a retreat.

This gave them no respite, however, as the arrows of the hunters pursued them back across the plains. Of the five thousand that marched into the land of the Piloti, only three hundred returned. Ever since, the Yellow Priests have not tried to forcefully assimilate the Piloti tribes. In those tribes who have considered cooperation with Soleh, Sankari’s example of herosim is often held up by the opposition.

After the troops retreated, and the hunters started their pursuit, Sankari gathered his people and told them of his plans for the future. The Piloti were to remain true to their history unto their death, and to never allow the Yellow Priests back onto their land. He gave his solemn promise to return when he was needed, and rode off across the plains, blood from his countless wounds leaving a trail of red dots in the snow. He has not been seen in the four hundred years since, but his message has not been forgotten. It is said that some people, out hunting in the winter, sometimes see a trail of red drops in the snow leading towards a half-seen mounted figure riding off to the horizon.

Despite his bravery, however, there are those who consider their pride and independence a small price to pay for the benefits of cooperation with the Yellow Priests. Some even send their sons and daughters to fight for them in exchange for even greater support.

I hope that clears up the Piloti a little bit, gives them some more texture.

[Wyntonian]

So, what would you folks like to see more of?

[Eldest]

Hm... How about more info on the Fey?

[Wyntonian]

Mmmhkay, I can do that. Give me a little while. Do you mean like more courts, or how they fit into the world? Or both?

[Eldest]

More courts, what's going on with the First people now, basically more mythology that isn't constrained to one nation. Like how Skyrim focused on dragons, but everyone in the world knows about the daedre.

[Wyntonian]

More fey courts are incoming. I spent part of today with a girl who - like me - is a Neil Gaiman fan, and we kicked ideas around. I'd like a vibe vaguely based on some of his work, like Neverwhere, for some of the courts.

So, in the meantime, the Elder Folk.

For a while, I kinda wanted to go with a Native American vibe (No, really?) for these guys, but I'm slowly moving away from that. You know how every setting kinda has the Old Fallen Empire that made Wondrous Treasures and Ruled the World? Well, here the story begins with the remains of the empire running away and landing here, and chasing off another Old Empire and taking their land.

So, if you're dumb, brave or crazy and you go deep into the Elder Mountains, you could very well come across some ancient ruins of castles, towers or even some surviving towns. Much like the Mound Builders of the United States, their structures nearer to the coast, where the Old Empire came from, have long since been disassembled and carted off to make other things. (Oh, maybe have some structures remain, like the Imperial Palace in Sunshan be an Elder Folk building)

When the Elder Folk left Patria, they broke through the veil that separates the mortal world from the realm of spirits. In doing so, the land on the west side of the fogbound river vanished, leaving only mist and a tangible entrance to the realm of spirits. More so than empty space, more so than a void, the land there just doesn't exist. Nobody has seen, heard, felt, sensed or smelled the Elder Folk that left that day in all the time since.

Not all of them did leave, though. A few, unwilling to take the stance of nonviolence that their people favored, refused to depart Patria with them. Instead, they vanished into the wilderness and allowed their hatred and rage to change the very fiber of their beings, until they changed into the... (Well, they were going to be the Kenku, but that doesn't quite fit... I dunno. What's a good monster for this role?) Now, these creatures, more beast than man, lurk in the deep forests and mountains of Patria, hunting whatever humans wander across their path. They have not forgotten the wars, nor will they, until every human is dead.


One side effect of the Fogbound River is the psychological effects it has on people. Those that venture too near the abyss, the void, that the Elder Folk created are...changed. As Nietzche said, "If you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." I can't find it, but in Firefly there's a quote about people flying to the edge of the solar system and looking out at all that empty space, and how it draws into them. Find true emptiness outside you, and it will find away inside.

This is, in short, how the Forestkith, children of the forest, are born. When travelers, hunters or wanderers reach the literal edge of existence that is the Fogbound River, some of them lose parts of their humanity. Where a wolf will know not to hunt a larger creature that isn't a threat or food, where a horse won't charge into a line of pikes, the Forestkith will, with a bloody smile on their face and a sharpened stick in their hand. It's easy to tell if a raided village was attacked by Goliaths, human bandits or Forestkith. If you can't put the bodies back together, it was the latter. Thier bodies are changed after generations, where a life of hiding, hunting and sneaking favors smaller and stronger individuals that mature rapidly. Few children survive past age ten, and those that do are nearly full-grown. For a Forestkith, that's about three feet.

If you've ever watched Firefly, think of the Reavers. Goblin Reavers.

Yes, Moon and Vail are in some deep ****.

Spoiler

This is irrelevant, but my creative process sometimes reminds me of one of these. Put tasty things in, kick it around (preferably with someone, otherwise it's no fun) until something solidifies and share it with your friends. One downside is that it always tastes a little like whatever you last made in it.


That's my deep thought for the day.

[Zap Dynamic]

Originally Posted by Wyntonian

This is, in short, how the Forestkith, children of the forest, are born.

Heh... I guess that's better than "forestkin."

[Wyntonian]

Originally Posted by Zap Dynamic

Heh... I guess that's better than "forestkin."

The name was stolen from some obscure goblin subspecies that would work passably well for stats.


Actual question, what's a good monster for the twisted-evil Elder Folk?

[Wyntonian]

I think I just had an idea.

In Tolkien's mythos, the wizards (Istari) are powerful angelic (kinda. It's complicated) spirits sent forth in mortal form to combat their fallen counterparts. There were five, but two kinda wandered off and one was more fond of playing in the dirt with bugs and animals than, y'know, doing stuff, so it was really just Gandalf and Saruman who played a role.

I'm trying to decide if the world would benefit from this, having a couple subtle-yet-powerful beings loose on it. The logical question would be that of their origin, whether they're Elder Folk who never left Patria, but were not twisted by hatred like some of the others, or whether they were humans like Tiber Gaios Asteri who are somehow immensely powerful and undying. Other alternatives, hypothetically, include them being fey (probably not) or simply Others, like the Istari of Tolkien.

If I were to include these beings, they would almost certainly be keyed to the four types of magic from the Mage class, Red/fire/light, Green/plants/animals, Blue/cold/weather and Black/earth/physical power. I imagine they would also be remarkably unremarkable.

The Blue one, for example, would probably be some simple fisherman who's old as hell and everyone remembers as being old as hell for as long as they can remember. He doesn't go around starting wars, just hands out by the sea with a boat and a net and probably drinks heavily. He might keep some powerful artifacts and symbols of office under his bed in a little shack, but he's not going to go all Saruman and take over a tower and start building armies to fight the people of the free world.

Y'know, the more I think about this, the more I like it.

[Wyntonian]

Oh. Related epiphany. The Elder Folk who stayed, the fallen ones, didn't simultaneously all turn into the same MM creature because GRRR I HATE HUMANS.

One might have found a deep place under the Elder Mountains and changed there, turning into a fiend of shadows. Another may have taken to the dark forests, becoming a tall and slender figure that brings insanity in its wake. So, many of the powerful demons and foul creatures of the hidden parts of Patria are the fallen Elder Folk.