A complete N00bz first try at world-building... - Page 9

Wyntonian · 07-17-2011, 11:29 PM

That could work. Or an Affariatan mercenary leader who did some epic charge "Once more unto the breach" style.

Eldest · 07-18-2011, 10:13 AM

All the spirits seem cool, I like the difference between the spirits from the begining of time and the mortals who were great in their time.
EDIT: You could use the third level grandmaster tactician for that guy, he's the only one you haven't writen a story for yet.

Arathnos · 07-18-2011, 12:43 PM

Yes, that is the vestige we were talking about.

Eldest · 07-18-2011, 12:51 PM

Oh.

Now I feel slightly stupid. D'oh.

Wyntonian · 07-24-2011, 08:37 PM

I've been working on reworking the mage class. The more I think about it, the less fond of it I am mechanically, but the more I like it thematically.

One thought I had was to replace it with a refluffed OA shaman, but they're still a tier 1 caster, which i'd like to avoid. I've decided to un-restrict druids (allow them to be from all races/backgrounds), but cut them off of any spells above level six and give them the bardic spell progression, and leave all other abilities untouched. As there are no dinosaurs in is setting, there's really no need to put any thing in place to avoid fleshraker shenanigans.

Jirku's awesome tier 3 wizard derivatives are, well, awesome, but I plan to have low-level casters be fairly ubiquitous, and having the average feisty housewife be able to wreath herself in a glorious ring of flames...... It's a little more high-magic than what I was looking for.

Any thoughts? Or will bards be lonely as the only arcane casters?

Eldest · 07-24-2011, 09:41 PM

DMG has a fully fledged base class called the witch. It's more subtle than most. No idea about power at higher levels. Also, the adept could work for NPCs as well.
For PCs the five themed casters might work.

Wyntonian · 07-25-2011, 03:33 PM

I suppose that could work....but I haven't yet given up hope on my mages. I like the idea, and they could turn out awesome, but they need lots of work. Or are they beyond help and better replaced by the jirku-casters?

Arathnos · 07-25-2011, 09:10 PM

I would stick with the mages. The simple fact is, the more you do to change/nerf them, the more likely you are to alienate players who want to be a spellcaster.

As is, it feels like you have a very-strong flavor for what you want the mage to be, and the mechanics have been tweaked to reflect that.

If you were to use the Tier 3 variants, to me it feels like you just want to nerf casters, and the flavor came later.

Wyntonian · 07-25-2011, 11:18 PM

Fair enough. But if a player comes to me a requests it, I'd probably allow it. I'll try to figure out the class tables and get some of those up soon. I'm thinking of making a feat that allows them to spontaneously heal, another to spontaneously do that druidy summony stuff for greens only, and maybe a nerfed version of Arcane Fire, for reds. It's not required, but it could give them a little more customizability. I'll also scrounge through my books to find more appropriate spells.

Arathnos · 07-26-2011, 12:31 AM

To clarify, I think the druid idea is great too. In my own campaign setting, (which is wildly different, but still :p) there are no clerics or paladins of the nature god. Not class wise at least. Priests of the nature god are druids, and his paladins are rangers.

Green mages could just be druids, that would be an interesting twist. Maybe If you want to nerf spellcasting in general, you can tweak from the pathfinder Druid, which gets Wildshape unlimited times per day as a high end, and then tweak what they can turn into. Just an idea.

Green mages could give up spellcasting for the ability to connect to their element on a more primal level, while the other mages are more fragile, but have slightly greater power.

Eldest · 07-26-2011, 08:37 AM

One massive nerf you might want to think about would be giving all the casters the bard's spell progression. Of course, then you are pretty much making your own classes then.

Wyntonian · 07-26-2011, 03:13 PM

Well, I'd rather not completely shatter everyone's ideas of how to play a caster. I'll just take druids down a couple pegs, strictly limit their wildshape choices to ones they've already encountered, mostly MM1 or MM2 animals and magical beasts, all subject to DM approval, as well as cutting down some of their spellcasting. The mages are as normal, and will have some new spells in their books. Should they have a spellbook mechanic like a wizard? or should I use the same mechanic, just without an actual physical book?

Wyntonian · 07-29-2011, 08:13 PM

THE FINAL SPELL LISTS FOR MAGES

Level 0

Spoiler

Level 1

Spoiler

Level 2

Spoiler

Level 3

Spoiler

Level 4

Spoiler

Level 5

Spoiler

Level 6

Spoiler

Level 7

Spoiler

Level 8

Spoiler

Level 9

Spoiler

Eldest · 07-29-2011, 09:22 PM

Say that that is one thing somebody can define about their character, but the game stats are the same (50gp, costs the same to add spells, etc.)

Wyntonian · 07-29-2011, 10:23 PM

That works. I could see a rural green mage who learned everything orally, through a master-apprentice relationship, as well as a courtesan's bodyguard red mage of the Sunshani who learned in a class with dozens of others. And this class can fit both of them.

Eldest · 07-30-2011, 08:44 AM

As long as the rural guy has to pay for the spells...

Wyntonian · 07-30-2011, 10:28 AM

Yeah, they'd be offerings to the spirits he learns from through the teacher, or just money he never actually gets in the first place as compared to an adventurer of his level. It would be totally up to the player t choose to represent the cost and the "book".

Eldest · 07-30-2011, 09:02 PM

As long as the cost and the one weak point remains semi-consistant...
I'll wait for the rest of the spells now.

Wyntonian · 08-08-2011, 11:58 PM

One thought that just appeared in my brain to bug me is that the fluff for the gnomes has them as both master craftsmen and elusive woods-dwelling fugitives. I feel like those two things should be mutually exclusive. You know, running and hiding in boats and light carts from burrow to hidden grove, versus having an established, safe, permanent place to set up the supply lines and structures necessary to to any sort of metalworking, much less any of quality.

The question now becomes "Why do the Dotze Affariata slavers want gnome slaves so bad?" If they aren't skilled as metalworkers, why capture a tiny, weakish, slave? They aren't effective as manual laborers. Hell, they can't even reach the top shelf!

I thought about potionmaking and apothecary work, but I wouldn't trust my health to an unwilling captive who would benefit from slipping my foxglove instead of a laxative. Shipbuilding? They don't make anything bigger than a canoe, why would they? They live in swamps and forests, for crying out loud. Leather and woodworking? Meeeeeyyyyybee..... Well, the artisans who would otherwise be doing work of that quality, and it would have to be high quality to warrant capturing slaves to do it, would probably poo themselves and cause a riot for being putout of their jobs. There's plenty of story ideas there, but I dunno. It seems a little weak. Really, the best thing I'm coming up with is gnomes being used as general house laborers/maids/etc., but with a decently sized lower-middle class, there's no reason for expensive gnomish slaves.

Really, I'm kinda blanking on ideas. Care to help me out?

EDIT: Also, got two more spell levels up. Critique away.

Eldest · 08-17-2011, 05:40 PM

Plantation workers? Miners? You don't need them to be skilled at something. Any sort of unskilled labor that makes money is more profitable with a slave (upkeep and a one-time cost of buying the slave, plus possible children born into slavery) than with a servant (must pay wages that are always more expensive than the upkeep, no chance of a free slave out of it). Further, gnomes are great because they are easy to pick out of a crowd, thus making it hard for them to escape, and suck at physical fighting, so far less chance of a revolt. Finally, the lower classes would not be ticked that their jobs are being taken, because it "was a gnome's job anyway" and they are better than those little dudes.

Spoiler

I'll look through the spell levels later today.

Wyntonian · 08-18-2011, 09:47 AM

I think plantations and mining work pretty well. I was a little overly focused on the Affariata as cities and kinda forgot the whole "-states" bit. I'll screw the geography over a bit to supply some actual mining and decent arable land, and call it good.

Side bonus, now there's a new bad guy running around: Slave-Finders.

Wyntonian · 08-25-2011, 11:46 PM

I now have a whole 9 spell levels up! peach them to your heart's content, especially looking for balance and such. Remember, each color fills a different role, so please keep that in mind. If any spell list, size/length, content or other decision makes you blink a couple times, just let me know. Thanks!

Now I can get back to vestiges. And countries. woo.

Eldest · 08-29-2011, 09:49 PM

I am finding that I don't have most of those spells in any of my (very limited supply of) books. So I can't look through balance. I'll look through for flavor (now that I have actual spare time) as well as I can, though.

Wyntonian · 08-31-2011, 10:31 AM

Thanks Eldest, anything and everything you do is appreciated.

This will now be where I put all eight levels of vestiges. I've looked them all over, and there isn't a one I haven't edited, but the original credit for all of these goes to the ladies and gentlemen over at the WOTC community boards. Any grammatical weirdness or glaring inconsistencies are probably my fault. Please look them over, and I'll put a little * by the ones that really need some help. Thanks in advance.

The Extended Vestige Library

Level 1

Athelas, Prince of Hope

Spoiler

Alryn, the Red Smith

Spoiler

Lared, The Humbled Hunter

Spoiler

Charn, The Hare

Spoiler

Chinua, the Wolf

Spoiler

Hanasa, Butterfly in the Willows

Spoiler

Junlee, the Champion

Spoiler

Nemu, The Charcoal Feather

Spoiler

Ranga, The Flower of Peace

Spoiler

Level 2

Amidamaru, The Bloody Blade

Spoiler

Dorun, The Mountain

Spoiler

Furtur, The Thunder and the Storm

Spoiler

Guison, the Man Who Knew

Spoiler

Hale, Master Healer

Spoiler

Orion, The Hero of Soleh

Spoiler

Lokesh, the Blind Seer

Spoiler

Remarro, the Candid Canvas

Spoiler

Eldest · 08-31-2011, 11:00 AM

The formatting of the wolf is off (influence), same for Ranga, and you literally just put up the second level pacts so I'll look over those now.

Wyntonian · 08-31-2011, 11:04 AM

Turns out that there's some unwritten rule that prevents you from posting more than 18-20 pages in a single post. Who knew.

Level 3

Bandelaros, the Soul Thief

Spoiler

Fujiko, Skydaughter

Spoiler

Myung, the Bright Sohei

Spoiler

Nathos, Grandmaster Tactician (Help me out with this one's story, please)

Spoiler

Thran, Leader of the Hunt

Spoiler

Level 4

Bhrigus, The Storm that Was

Spoiler

Jacobus, the Scoundrel

Spoiler

Makoma, the Greater

Spoiler

Nexnemus, The Warped Nature

Spoiler

Recanne, The Hollowed Puppeteer

Spoiler

Samara, the Unwanted Child

Spoiler

Vassago, The Weak Strand *

Spoiler

Vepar, Duchess of Waves

Spoiler

Arynn, The Devoted Ruler

Spoiler

Pangloss, The Perfected Philosopher

Spoiler

Eldest · 08-31-2011, 04:04 PM

Level one and two vestiges (this is going to be incredibly nitpicky)...
Amidamaru
Amadamaru's Might needs punctuation at the end of the last sentence (told you it was going to be nitpicky).
Dorun
For Mastery of the Bones, 1/4 climb speed seems really slow. It would be 5 feet/round for all medium and small people with normal movement rates. Maybe bump it up to 1/2?
Hale
Only a Flesh Wound- describe the type of action it is, likely a free action (or maybe a swift?)
Fellowship of the Physicians- who is Buer?
Orion (you might want to rename him)
Special requirements- you need to fix the title so it's all bold. Also, who is Lorken?
Sign- It says you show a sign on your hand, what does that mean?
Also, this guy REALLY reminds me of Link from Legend of Zelda. You might want to change some of his fluff.
Lokesh
Special Requirements- who is Tenebrous?
Hear the Unseen- everything else is once every five rounds, this is once every four rounds. Is that for balance, or is it a mistake?
Blind Seer- uh, what? Doesn't go with the fluff at all...
Remarro
Legend- the last sentence's grammar is messed up. "the person?"
Chiaroseuro- there is no spell named Illusionary Image, as far as I know, maybe you meant minor image? Also, why restrict it to images of himself?
Mirror Image- you forgot to say what it actually does (probably mimic the spell mirror image, but you should make it clear...)

All of the following need description of their granted abillities
Athelas
Hanasa
Ranga
Futur
Hale
Lokesh

Finally, the format seems to be Name, Level, Binding DC, Legend, Manifestion, Sign, Influence, Special Requirements (if there are any), Granted Abillities.
However, some of the vestiges seem to not follow that format, you might want to go back through and copy-paste to fix them all.
Now for the 3rd and 4th level vestiges...

Wyntonian · 08-31-2011, 04:21 PM

Thanks, nitpicky is good. Tenebrous is a vestige from ToM, as is Buer. Orion was originally fluffed as Link, Arynn is a refluffed Zelda and Lorken is Ganon, a level 6 vestige I've yet to post. I'll consider renaming Orion, especially if you have a good idea. Yes, there's plenty of grammatical weirdness, and I'll fix those individually.

Eldest · 08-31-2011, 05:07 PM

So this isn't the end-all list of vestiges in your setting, then, if there are some from ToM mentioned?
Continuing...
Makoma
Granted powers- it should read "especially against those"
Mighty stature-are you allowed to write out what the granted features are/what they do?
Woronowu- is the concealment for the bag or the binder? It makes it sound like it's for the bag...
Roar of the Victor- so it says what happens to the binder and to the enemies, but what happens to the allies?
Nexnemus
Granted Abillities-it needs a discription
Recanne
Sign- it should read }ball and socket joints"
pull the strings- "if the bound is broken"? What?
wooden doppelganger- it should read "this construct is only present", also it should reat "at level 13 this DR switches to adamantine"
Samara
Influence-it should read "if they fail while using certain skills"
Vassago
Legend-he needs one
sign-it should read "causing no penalties"
there is an extra space between the fith and sixth power
Spy's step- it should read "usable once every five rounds"
Arynn
sign-again, really too much like zelda(I'll bring this up after the giant list)
wind of freedom-why once every ten rounds, when everything else is once every five?
ruler's touch-instead of the last sentence, just say you are treated as trained in knowledge while you have Arynn bound.

For the three legend of zelda inspired ones, the story doesn't seem like it's stolen from LoZ (which is a good thing) but really, everything else does. Change the signs on the hand to something else (tattoo on the back, something on the forehead/cheek, as easily visible but not on the hand and not of the triforce) and change one or two of Orion's power names (the weapon of evil's bane is what made me sit up and say "wait a minute..."). That should make it far less like the trio.

Wyntonian · 08-31-2011, 11:11 PM

The idea was that I'd systematically rewrite every vestige from ToM, but I only ended up doing two, Alryn, who was originally Aym, Lady Avarice, and Lared, who was someone else. I'm now leaning towards just allowing all ToM vestiges and strongly suggesting that binders refluff them. As for the LoZ vestiges, well, every difference there was something I edited in. I'll think of something witty for a common thread in their signs, but that'll probably happen tomorrow. Other edity things are being handled now.

EDIT: Gave Vassago a story, now to do Nathos and a couple others.