Mystic Muse's Marvelous Manual of Monster Class Mania! (3.5 Taking requests) - Page 10

radmelon · 05-02-2012, 09:08 AM

Ooh, clockwork horrors! My favorite dalek analogue! I'm definitely going to have to check this out.

<edit> I do think, however, that the electrum horrors should have the pressure dart, as it was pretty much the only thing that made them unique among the horrors. Give them a weak ranged attack early on, and make it scale up slightly and maybe have abilities kinda like the manticore monster class from the big project a while back? It could even replace the SLA's, which the original clockwork horror got none of.

Hyudra · 05-02-2012, 09:31 AM

I think the platinum horror gets the short end of the stick, at low levels at least. The others get an SLA that's really useful at 2nd, and platinum gets comprehend languages.

Also, wondering if you could say 'the Saw can be treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, whichever would be more appropriate at the time'?

Keeping the flavor of the class in mind, what if you could sunder objects to get raw materials equal to the item's total gold value? (Thinking of Electrum Horror here) - lets you sunder without ticking off your party.

Would you be unduly offended if I tried my hand at putting a class (maybe the clockwork horrors) together using the idea I'd suggested to you in our IM conversation? I'm interested in tackling the construct issue in a manner that isn't just cutting out skills/saves/bab.

Mystic Muse · 05-02-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmelon

Ooh, clockwork horrors! My favorite dalek analogue! I'm definitely going to have to check this out.

<edit> I do think, however, that the electrum horrors should have the pressure dart, as it was pretty much the only thing that made them unique among the horrors. Give them a weak ranged attack early on, and make it scale up slightly and maybe have abilities kinda like the manticore monster class from the big project a while back? It could even replace the SLA's, which the original clockwork horror got none of.

I know the original clockwork Horrors got no SLAs (Other than Adamantine, or Lightning bolt, and even then the Electrum Horror didn't) but taking away the SLAs would make the Horror/s pretty dull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyudra

I think the platinum horror gets the short end of the stick, at low levels at least. The others get an SLA that's really useful at 2nd, and platinum gets comprehend languages.

Good point.

Quote:

Also, wondering if you could say 'the Saw can be treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon, whichever would be more appropriate at the time'?

Yeah, that works.

Quote:

Keeping the flavor of the class in mind, what if you could sunder objects to get raw materials equal to the item's total gold value? (Thinking of Electrum Horror here) - lets you sunder without ticking off your party.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Quote:

Would you be unduly offended if I tried my hand at putting a class (maybe the clockwork horrors) together using the idea I'd suggested to you in our IM conversation? I'm interested in tackling the construct issue in a manner that isn't just cutting out skills/saves/bab.

Nah. Go ahead and give it a shot. I'd like to have ideas to make Constructs more interesting in the future. I just didn't go with your idea because it would have taken me forever to figure out how to implement well, and it's been long enough without an update for this thread.

radmelon · 05-02-2012, 01:18 PM

Actually, I didn't have a problem with the electrum having SLA's, but the idea I had had for an alternative/addition would be it to have a ranged pressure dart attack, as per the original, and give it upgrades not unlike Hyudra's Manticore class. This would help bump it up compared to the others.

Mystic Muse · 05-04-2012, 01:36 AM

Alright. I've attended to a few of the concerns with the Clockwork Horrors and will be attending to others later.

Over the next couple of months, I've decided on what I'm going to do. Right now, it doesn't work too well to play the following monsters since they're mostly alone.

Succubus
Blue Slaad
Mezzoloth
Canoloth

I'm going to work on making a total of at least four demons, Slaadi, and Yugoloths so that you can play a teamup and not look all same-y. The Kulumar and Scarecrow also have this problem, but I can't think of anything else that synchs with them. The Silver Dragon is also alone, and there's currently only two Planar dragons that are some flavor of evil, but does anybody really want me to create another five dragon classes, three of which would be metallic, and 2 of which would be evil planar ones?

radmelon · 05-04-2012, 09:06 AM

5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.

Mystic Muse · 05-04-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmelon

5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.

Well, I won't do them any time soon, but I do plan to make classes for all the true dragons at some point.

Yes, I am aware there are at least 27 true dragons. This isn't going to stop me because, to absolutely nobody's surprise, I love dragons, and I'm insane.

Solaris · 05-04-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmelon

5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.

I wouldn't doubt it too hard.

Igneel · 05-05-2012, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmelon

5 more dragon classes would be quite a bit, and perhaps not necessary. I also doubt that anyone's gonna play a dragon-only party. Interesting idea, but I still doubt it.

Funny that you would say this while Soft is Dming a all dragon party...

Hmm... There are the Chromatic, Metallic, Gem, Planar, and various other dragons, many of which I think would be possible interesting ideas. I'd have to hunt down a list that I posted somewhere.

Found it!

Quote:

Spoiler

Mystic Muse · 05-05-2012, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igneel

Funny that you would say this while Soft is Dming a all dragon party...

Yeah, that's pretty hilarious.

Will start on a couple demons tomorrow after D&D, and after science homework (Soooo close to being done with that.) All kinda low CR-ish ones, but I'll be sure to make them as interesting as possible.

radmelon · 05-05-2012, 12:08 PM

Well, I can admit to being wrong. The gaming group I'm with probably wouldn't do something like that, and I guess that's why I was thinking as such. Now that you mention it though, an all [insert monster here] party would be an interesting game. I'll have to add it to my +1 bucket of holding list.

Metahuman1 · 05-08-2012, 11:19 AM

Enriyes (I probably miss spelled it but it's the Devil Version of the Succubus.) and Lilliend might be nice to have to go along with the Succubus, particularly in a more neutral/anti-hero good friendly game/party.

Mystic Muse · 05-08-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metahuman1

Enriyes (I probably miss spelled it but it's the Devil Version of the Succubus.) and Lilliend might be nice to have to go along with the Succubus, particularly in a more neutral/anti-hero good friendly game/party.

You just really want those both made, don't you?

Darn. I found enough low CR demons I like to make into classes, but all the most interesting ones are high CR.

TheGeckoKing · 05-08-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soft Serve

Darn. I found enough low CR demons I like to make into classes, but all the most interesting ones are high CR.

Pffft. Don't give me an excuse to make a Balor class.

Anyway, how goes the Myconid, Soft Serve?

Mystic Muse · 05-08-2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing

Pffft. Don't give me an excuse to make a Balor class.

Anyway, how goes the Myconid, Soft Serve?

IIRC, you said Myconid or Adamantine Horror. I kinda hit a dead-end on the Myconid, so I made the Adamantine Horror instead.

Now that I think of it, you were probably joking and I probably wasted me time. Whoops.

TheGeckoKing · 05-08-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soft Serve

Now that I think of it, you were probably joking and I probably wasted me time. Whoops.

......I was joking.

. But you know what? Spider Daleks are fine too. Everyone needs metallic death, and I love Doctor Who. Consider the request completed. Two notes;

How the hell did I suggest a harder monster than an Adamantine Horror?
All bad saves AND Bad BaB? I know Constructs have lots going for them with immunities and such, but that's overkill. Especially since the class forces the Horror into melee until it gets enough SLA's to make due.

Mystic Muse · 05-08-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing

......I was joking.

. But you know what? Spider Daleks are fine too. Everyone needs metallic death, and I love Doctor Who. Consider the request completed. Two notes;

How the hell did I suggest a harder monster than an Adamantine Horror?
All bad saves AND Bad BaB? I know Constructs have lots going for them with immunities and such, but that's overkill. Especially since the class forces the Horror into melee until it gets enough SLA's to make due.

1. I had other things to go off of besides what was presented in the book. Like you said, and a few other people said, they're like Spider Daleks, and that helped. Myconids...I had nothing to go off of other than what's in the book. I just couldn't think of much to make them interesting, and it was hard to give them any sort of clear class to go into after you got done with all the levels. The closest thing I could think of that was similar was Thallids from MtG, and their spore mechanic is hard to translate into D&D.

Honestly, there are a lot of monsters that are harder than the adamantine horror. Erinyes is harder than Adamantine horror, but for different reasons than say, Dragons.

2. Alright. Which would you suggest making better? I just recall this being the rule of thumb in the old threads, and I agree that it's kind of boring. I want to be able to make them fun and interesting, but it's a little hard when they get all those immunities.

Metahuman1 · 05-09-2012, 12:20 PM

Yes, generally, when I suggest a monster, I'm really very curious to see how it comes out. And since you did say you were taking suggestions at the moment and we've established that the Titan I suggested awhile back is something your gonna be tackling a little at a time just because of how much work it's gonna take, those two seemed like they'd be better to re-mention.

=)

TheGeckoKing · 05-09-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soft Serve

1. I had other things to go off of besides what was presented in the book. Like you said, and a few other people said, they're like Spider Daleks, and that helped. Myconids...I had nothing to go off of other than what's in the book. I just couldn't think of much to make them interesting, and it was hard to give them any sort of clear class to go into after you got done with all the levels. The closest thing I could think of that was similar was Thallids from MtG, and their spore mechanic is hard to translate into D&D.

Honestly, there are a lot of monsters that are harder than the adamantine horror. Erinyes is harder than Adamantine horror, but for different reasons than say, Dragons.

That's.....a fair point.

Quote:

2. Alright. Which would you suggest making better? I just recall this being the rule of thumb in the old threads, and I agree that it's kind of boring. I want to be able to make them fun and interesting, but it's a little hard when they get all those immunities.

How about giving them an "Overdrive" ability that temporarily gives them Full BaB and a small Str Boost? That way, if they're having an unlucky day that encounter, they can give themselves a boost.
OR
We go further down the Dalek route, remove the Lightning Bolt, and give them an at-will touch attack laser that scales slowly from Force Damage to Force + Con Damage to SoD.

Mystic Muse · 05-10-2012, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metahuman1

Yes, generally, when I suggest a monster, I'm really very curious to see how it comes out. And since you did say you were taking suggestions at the moment and we've established that the Titan I suggested awhile back is something your gonna be tackling a little at a time just because of how much work it's gonna take, those two seemed like they'd be better to re-mention.

=)

Alright. I promise to work on them as much as I can while also working on the demons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing

That's.....a fair point.

Yeah. For a lot of monsters, it comes down to whether I can get ideas for them, or if I'm just going to end up hitting a dead end because I only have what's in the book available to me, and what's in the book isn't anywhere near enough.

What a creature represents also affects the amount of ideas I can get for it. Like I said, there's not much I can do for mushroom men. A demon though, there are probably literally a million different sources I could get inspiration from.

Quote:

How about giving them an "Overdrive" ability that temporarily gives them Full BaB and a small Str Boost? That way, if they're having an unlucky day that encounter, they can give themselves a boost.

This could be quite interesting.

Quote:

OR
We go further down the Dalek route, remove the Lightning Bolt, and give them an at-will touch attack laser that scales slowly from Force Damage to Force + Con Damage to SoD.

As could this. Though, I wouldn't do the SoD thing. The Con Damage plus the Force damage should be more than adequate to represent the Dalek's killing laser. I mean, the height of human achievement is about level 5, and an adequately leveled scaling force damage+Con damage should be more than enough to take out that. Plus, an SoD at-will doesn't seem very balanced. I'm trying to make the clockwork Horrors playable, not the nightmare of every DM ever.

1d6 force damage per HD, and eventually dealing con damage too?

TheGeckoKing · 05-10-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soft Serve

As could this. Though, I wouldn't do the SoD thing. The Con Damage plus the Force damage should be more than adequate to represent the Dalek's killing laser. I mean, the height of human achievement is about level 5, and an adequately leveled scaling force damage+Con damage should be more than enough to take out that. Plus, an SoD at-will doesn't seem very balanced. I'm trying to make the clockwork Horrors playable, not the nightmare of every DM ever.

1d6 force damage per HD, and eventually dealing con damage too?

1d6 Force per HD makes sense. I'm thinking a 1/encounter ability where you can trade in 3d6's of Force Damage for 1d4 Con Damage, or even an at-will version.

Mystic Muse · 05-15-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing

1d6 Force per HD makes sense. I'm thinking a 1/encounter ability where you can trade in 3d6's of Force Damage for 1d4 Con Damage, or even an at-will version.

I'll definitely consider this while working on it. Edits will be delayed due to my computer being on the verge of dying, and not knowing when I'll get a new one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metahuman1

Enriyes (I probably miss spelled it but it's the Devil Version of the Succubus.) and Lilliend might be nice to have to go along with the Succubus, particularly in a more neutral/anti-hero good friendly game/party.

Re-quoting this to ask a question. I'm going for a bit of a "dark Mirror" type deal with the Lillend. The Succubus is essentially going to be an evil version of the Lillend (Though, the Lillend will still be unique once it's done), so what do you see as being the good version of the Erinyes? The only thing that immediately comes to mind is the Movanic Deva from the Fiend Folio since they should all be on roughly the same tier of power.

Metahuman1 · 05-16-2012, 06:25 PM

Hmmm, that's hard to say actually.

I personally always think of Erinyes as being a half way point between a classic Succubus type and a sort of evil Valkyrie. (This is form a strict flavor/mythology standpoint so actual stats for the two do not necessarily apply.)

There the one's who can very convincingly offer a lot of power but are certainly formidable enough that normal mortals should not trifle with them and even exceptional one's should not do so lightly, and can lean just as easily toward mastery of words as they can towards mastery of weapons as a personal specialization, depending on the individual Erinyes.

Was that any help or am I babbleing?

Mystic Muse · 05-16-2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metahuman1

Hmmm, that's hard to say actually.

I personally always think of Erinyes as being a half way point between a classic Succubus type and a sort of evil Valkyrie. (This is form a strict flavor/mythology standpoint so actual stats for the two do not necessarily apply.)

There the one's who can very convincingly offer a lot of power but are certainly formidable enough that normal mortals should not trifle with them and even exceptional one's should not do so lightly, and can lean just as easily toward mastery of words as they can towards mastery of weapons as a personal specialization, depending on the individual Erinyes.

Was that any help or am I babbleing?

Well, the unfortunate bit is, I can't seem to find a Valkyrie in any of the books. I could probably find something similar in terms of fluff and such if I took a good long look, but nothing specifically called Valkyrie. Though, That's only in the books I currently have. I only looked through the Fiend Folio, Monster manuals 1, 2, 4 and 5, and Book of Exalted ~~cheese~~ deeds.

radmelon · 05-16-2012, 08:16 PM

Well, there's a creature called a valkyrie in the back of the ToB, but it has about as much to do with mythology as... I didn't think this analogy through. Point is, in my opinion it's a crappy monster. I wouldn't use it if I were you.

Mystic Muse · 05-16-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmelon

Well, there's a creature called a valkyrie in the back of the ToB, but it has about as much to do with mythology as...

As the D&D animated cartoon has to do with actual D&D?

radmelon · 05-16-2012, 09:01 PM

Yes, lets go with that.

Igneel · 05-16-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Muse

As the D&D animated cartoon has to do with actual D&D?

Now now... Don't be so hard on them. There is only so much they could do without helping the 'DnD is the work of the Devil' that was happening around that time after all. They at least had the 4 main character roles back then, along with a Dungeon Master and at least Tiamat.

Mystic Muse · 05-16-2012, 10:26 PM

Well, looking them up on Wikipedia, I probably shouldn't do proper valkyries for the simple reason that they'd run into board rules on religion. And this isn't me just being paranoid, I know from experience (Seeing other divine oriented homebrew) that this wouldn't fly with the mods.

I might take some concepts from them, but I'd rather this project remain open.

As a side note, who wants to help me come up with a new alliterative name for the thread?

Igneel · 05-17-2012, 02:58 AM

Mystic Muse's Manual of Monster Class Mania!