And really nice Battler impersonation.
...but doesn't his fringe/bangs usually point in the other direction? ;-)
Ehehe, I knew something was wrong.
This probably is mostly because my normal hair style is actually pretty much as shown in the pictures, save for the color. So, I didn't give the hair that much thought since I had originally modelled it after Battler's (again save for the color) back in '09 when I changed my hair style to the current one. Whoops.
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And I'm sure none else noticed it either, its just that I used a trick like that* and it has made me sensitive to such.
But you can always go as Mirror-Battler next time for versatility, in case someone else do the same thing. ^^
And its not a shabby hairdo for usual wear, not at all. Beats mine which due to neglect make me look like Kotomine Kirei from Fate/SN.
* During a game focusing on peoples memory we were supposed to change something about us, I switched the direction of the fringe. It made people frustrated.
And getting back to PMMM. While I was thinking about it earlier today, I realized that this show and Final Fantasy XIII have very similar plots in terms of themes and methods, as well as some curiously specific parts. I'll put my thoughts on these similarities in spoilers below. Naturally this means that there will be spoilers for both Puella Magi Madoka Magica and Final Fantasy XIII below, so you're warned.
Spoiler
The first and most obvious similarity is that in both stories the main characters lose their humanity, but keep their appearance, upon being granted magical powers by alien, incomprehensible beings. Not only that, in both cases this takes the form of said souls crystallizing, internally in FF XIII and externally in PMMM. Beyond that, possessing magic drives them apart from normal people around them, though for sufficiently different reasons that I'm not sure it counts.
This is not all, however. Possessing magic puts you on a timer in both cases and similarly, in both cases this timer is advanced by feelings of despair, feelings that come naturally with the transformation into a magical girl or l'cie respectively. Once the timer is up, you turn into a monsters consumed by despair that lashes out to share said feelings with those around them.
In both stories the only example of the alien incomprehensible beings that are being interacted with is a huge troll who favors the color white and whose primary plan involves driving the main characters to feel ever greater despair and hopelessness. Both also don't understand human emotions in the slightest, but can tell them apart well enough to effectively manipulate them.
Finally the overall theme and the ending of both are the same. If you don't give up hope and have the willpower to fight through the despair heaped at you, you can change your seemingly inevitable doom. Not only that, in both endings there are dead people who return to life and someone sacrifices themselves in an unparalleled display of magic and ceases to be even superficially human. Both cases also leaves humanity in a new world that might be full of danger, isn't set up to screw them over and hurt them like the one they lived in before and the whole of the eldritch abominations over humanity has been broken.
There are a few minor notes too, such as main characters trying to kill each other despite supposedly working towards the same goal, as well as a deliberate suicide attempt on the part of a main character by trying to just give in and let their magic claim them. In both cases too, the most depressing scene happens around the middle, though earlier in the story in the case of FFXIII.
This is not to say that there aren't vast differences between the two, but many of themes and the set up to bring those themes about really is eerily similar in the two cases.
This is specifically for terra, regarding something you said at IM.
Spoiler
you said you're not surprised at mami's death because you thought It was clear that the show was getting dark and killing off someone is the classic way to establish that.
For me, Mami was built up to be something important. She's always smiling and looks too perfect! She had a clash with homura, who, eventhough mysterious, was clear that she's supposed to be the good side! In fact, I thought Mami would turned out evil, a stepford smiler, or cruel/sadistic, or a yandere, or have her own evil agenda, be the dragon's big bad, or something else in that line, you get my point.
She dead just like that? Surprised me.
I know the series was supposed to be dark and yeah, killing off someone is the classic way to do that. But that someone is Mami somewhat didn't cross my mind at all back then, it's not like she's the only character around.
I dunno, she seemed like the best candidate. Madoka's family, the teacher and Hitomi all had too small roles for it to really be effective and Homura was far too mysterious to be killed off before getting to reveal something. Madoka and especially Sayaka could be killed off, just to show that being a main character doesn't protect you, but killing off civilians rather than a supposedly adept veteran is somewhat unorthodox. And again, I'm not saying it was inevitable, just that it wasn't too surprising.
Very astute observations! I've seen scholarly papers attempt less cogent comparisons between stories.
What I mean is, this is excellent. Now it's time to lay it on the line: What does Furi ku-. er, these connections mean?!
In other words, time for synthesis. It may not need to, but it'd be lovely to use these similarities to put forward some sort of argument, related either to the genre these two stories inhabit (they're both basically "magical girl" stories in a classic sense) and/or its parallel development in different mediums, or something else.
But either way, it's really cool to see such a clear line of connection. Since I've beaten FFXIII and watched all of Madoka, I see exactly what you mean now. Thank you for that connection.
(Side note: Am I the only one who really liked FFXIII's battle system? I just played FFV this weekend and I realized something: Hitting the X button twenty times a battle to attack is BORING. FFXIII shifting user control to higher levels and letting the characters automatically hit "X" for you was great. But I liked it in XII just as much.)
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Really, I had that feeling about Mami, too. Okay, I guess because I watched it later and was told something BIG was going to happen in episode three I was kind os prepared but with the dark tone and stuff I really expected someone to die, a you said. It being Mami... well, it got kind of apparent in the fight since she was the only one who really was a possible target at that point.
@ FF XIII
Well, I guess a few things are a bit far fetched or actually different when looked at in detail but... yeah, I guess, there are quite a few similarities. Never really noticed. Though, committing/attempting suicide in such a situation is a rather common/expected action so that's not so great. And I have very different feelings toward QB and Barthandelus/Orphan but that's just me not hating QB as much as everyone else, I guess.
But... when was it stated a l'cie's souls crystalizes? o.o
edit: @0Megabyte
Blasphemy! V was the best Final Fantasy game ever! No matter if I had to push the X button again and again!
Okay, no serious. Well yeah, it was kind of tedious but that's how games were back then? Go and play Dragon Warrior I and you will wish you had the variety of FF V. XIII is a nice game ad has an interesting battle system but I wouldn't blame V (or other earlier games) because you need to push a button to enter a command...
Well, it was the specific means of the suicide I was thinking about. Sayaka commits suicide by letting her soulgem get fully corrupted, not knowing that it would turn her into a witch. Vanille is intentionally just running around, waiting for her l'cie brand to fill out so she would turn into a cieth rather than fulfill her focus and destroy Coccoon. I wasn't thinking about Sazh, or rather I was at first until I realized your point and remembered what Vanille's plan was for the first half of the game.
And, yes, many of the details are different as are central story elements. Homura's time traveling is a very obvious example, as is the importance of the military as the main antagonists in FF XIII. Still, they do have a fair amount of similarities.
As for what these means, I can think of at least one cynical explanation, which is that PMMM ripped it straight from FF XIII, but I have serious doubts that is it. Another possibly explanation, though one that would need far more works of entertainment studied, is that it is a manifestation of a wider cultural trend. Japanese art has frequently dealt with a sense of crushing determinism in the last decade or so, possibly due to a stagnant economy and political paralysis. Both these stories deal with it on a less immediate social level, but both also say that you should never give in and that change is possible if you persevere. Arguably, they do have thematic similarities with shows such as Eden of the East in this regard, though that is a much more tenuous connection. You could even see them as being in line with Phoenix Wright's satire of Japanese judicial norms here, those games are about rising against the seemingly inevitable conviction of a suspect no matter how poor the case against them are. The theme of not giving up and fighting on no matter how bleak it gets is central in The World Ends With You as well.
I'm not really convinced this is it, but it is a far more satisfactory and fruitful line of inquiry than just thinking one ripped off the other. Especially with the genuine differences there are between PMMM and FF XIII. It is, however, an interesting topic that more fruitful discussion and analysis could possible come from in the future.
And about the battle system in FF XIII, I loved it. It's my favorite battle system in any JRPG ever, so you're not alone in liking it 0Megabyte.
edit: @0Megabyte
Blasphemy! V was the best Final Fantasy game ever! No matter if I had to push the X button again and again!
Okay, no serious. Well yeah, it was kind of tedious but that's how games were back then? Go and play Dragon Warrior I and you will wish you had the variety of FF V. XIII is a nice game ad has an interesting battle system but I wouldn't blame V (or other earlier games) because you need to push a button to enter a command...
I've beaten Dragon Quest 1 three times, including once on the NES, and twice in the GBC remake.
I talked about the repetition of hitting the X button, not the Job system. And I'm not blaming FFV for being a product of its time.
I just realize now that its time has passed. We don't need that anymore. Sure, replace the Paradigm thing with something even more like the old jobs, with even greater options. That sounds like fun. But FFXIII got rid of a lot of things that weren't needed anymore.
And really, most old RPGs aren't any less linear, in any real way. They're just a little less honest about it. (I said most, remember. There are some delightful exceptions.)
Terra: There we go. I am having fun reading your opinions on the matter. Your thesis is plausible.
Regardless, it's just fun to see those connections between the stories.
As for FFXIII: Awesome. Good to know I'm not the only one.
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Last edited by 0Megabyte : 06-20-2011 at 06:22 PM.
At the risk of derailing the thread (ha!) into Final Fantasy discussion, I gotta ask...is FF13's battle system the same as 12's? Because I instantly hated 12's.
I know it's more modern and allows more tactics and versatility to give series of high-level commands and let your party work as a team to fulfill them (even if you're action-RPG controlling one of them), but...well, aside from just not getting how to be effective with it, it's one level too far removed from playing the characters in my mind.
I guess I'm turning into an old grognard when I prefer the objectively-bad ATB system to the newer stuff.
5's Job System is still the best character customization method in the whole series, though.
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Last edited by Nerd-o-rama : 06-21-2011 at 11:12 AM.
The only similarity it has to the system of 12 is that you only control one party member. Instead it relies on balancing six different roles that your characters can take and changing those on the fly in battle to respond to changing conditions. In a sense you're controlling the entire party as a unit, rather than any one character, though you can input specific commands for the party leader. That tends to be mostly relevant for using the synergist role which gives buffs, the game tends to be bad at predicting the most reasonable order to apply them in.
The only similarity it has to the system of 12 is that you only control one party member. Instead it relies on balancing six different roles that your characters can take and changing those on the fly in battle to respond to changing conditions. In a sense you're controlling the entire party as a unit, rather than any one character, though you can input specific commands for the party leader. That tends to be mostly relevant for using the synergist role which gives buffs, the game tends to be bad at predicting the most reasonable order to apply them in.
You just described Persona 3.
Oddly, I am okay with this.
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If Persona 3 was real time, fastpaced and allowed you to change the entire skillset available to your party members with a few presses of a button during a fight. A synergist can only buff, a sentinel can only tank, a medic can only heal and so on.
There are some similarities, but the line before was mostly meant to say that they're pretty dissimilar, but when you present it like that, I can actually see the similarities. They are not that close to each other, but it gives a general idea, I suppose. It works really well in my opinion at least.
Hm... you're not wrong but Sayaka and Vanille are rather opposite (though such strict opposites are also kind of related, I guess) Well, I guess you are aware of that. Thing is... not sure if you could call it 'suicide' since Sayaka doesn't know what she's doing and Vanille... well, okay, she just doesn't do anything to avoid it accepting her fate.
Anyway, not to argue with you, yeah, there are quite a few similarities I never thaught about, though I'd think the 'X makes a contract with Y (un)knowingly (un)deliberately selling their soul' story is quite abit older it's kind of interesting both use it. As for why and if there is any connection to the Japanese economy... I don't think I'll touch on that with a ten-feet-pole. Not good at that stuff.
And to derail the thread slightly more (or rather put my previous post in perspective) @ FF XIII
I don't minded the game or the battle mechanics. Yes, I liked V's job system a lot. (As I like all the systems with jobs even X-2) But the paradigms were neat, too. Just saying the need to hit the X button over and over didn't really bother me. Maybe in some other games, were it came down to 'hold the X button' but V had some tactic left to it, I think.But as I said, XIII was good, too.
(And now for derailment: I really liked the basic mechanics of FF X)
Just saw the first episode of Shin Mazinger Shogeki! Z Hen. I get it, sometimes "in medias res" is cool. Maybe the author went a bit overboard with the concept though. Even for non linear japanese narrative style where much is left unsaid, unexplained, or plain contradictory and one just has to suck it up, this must be the most confusing beginning of a series I have ever seen. Maybe it s the transaltion....
Just saw the first episode of Shin Mazinger Shogeki! Z Hen. I get it, sometimes "in medias res" is cool. Maybe the author went a bit overboard with the concept though. Even for non linear japanese narrative style where much is left unsaid, unexplained, or plain contradictory and one just has to suck it up, this must be the most confusing beginning of a series I have ever seen. Maybe it s the transaltion....
No, it's meant to be confusing. It's more or less a preview of the end of the series. If you've watched Gurren-Lagann, remember the first five minutes of that? That's what the entire first episode of Shin Mazinger (and part of the second) is. Presumably it's expanded to episode length to show off how much of the mythos the series is drawing from for the sake of old fans, but more likely it's because Imagawa is not a very good storyteller.
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No, it's meant to be confusing. It's more or less a preview of the end of the series. If you've watched Gurren-Lagann, remember the first five minutes of that? That's what the entire first episode of Shin Mazinger (and part of the second) is. Presumably it's expanded to episode length to show off how much of the mythos the series is drawing from for the sake of old fans, but more likely it's because Imagawa is not a very good storyteller.
Loved to bits Gurenn Lagan.
I made it to the first 5' of the second episode of Shin Maz. then had to stop to do soemthing else. Do you think it is worth continuing? Graphically it was ok to very good, story-wise maybe it will pick up later on?
Sayaka wasn't originally set on committing suicide, even when her despair grew and she began acting erratically. However, it was pretty clear that she knew that Homura was right and she'd die if she didn't purify her soul gem and she still refused to. What she did not know was that she'd become a witch if she did so,
I'm so behind in the times in regards to anime. I used to follow what shows came out as they were coming out in Japan, that stopped in Winter 2009. What are some highly recommended shows from Winter 2009/08 to what's out now....and doesn't require me to bit torrent or visit shady streaming sites?
Shows I've enjoyed in the past were Black Lagoon, Higurashi, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Soul Eater, Gurren Lagaan, Umineko, Nanoha, Jigoku Shoujo, Baccano!, Minaki-Ke, Strawberry Marshmallow, Ouran High School Host Club, Death Note, Code Geass----
Essentially I have an eclectic taste so genre doesn't matter.
If Crunchyroll doesn't qualify as "shady", and if the show is still up there - I'm not sure if they take down older ones - you might check out Level E. I found it entertaining, at least.
If Crunchyroll doesn't qualify as "shady", and if the show is still up there - I'm not sure if they take down older ones - you might check out Level E. I found it entertaining, at least.
Crunchyroll doesn't qualify as shady for me ahaha...anywhom, well, I'll check this out...when it's not 2:40 am @_@
I'm so behind in the times in regards to anime. I used to follow what shows came out as they were coming out in Japan, that stopped in Winter 2009. What are some highly recommended shows from Winter 2009/08 to what's out now....and doesn't require me to bit torrent or visit shady streaming sites?
Shows I've enjoyed in the past were Black Lagoon, Higurashi, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Soul Eater, Gurren Lagaan, Umineko, Nanoha, Jigoku Shoujo, Baccano!, Minaki-Ke, Strawberry Marshmallow, Ouran High School Host Club, Death Note, Code Geass----
Essentially I have an eclectic taste so genre doesn't matter.
Well, I'm unsure as to how you managed to watch some of those shows without "bit torrenting or visiting shady streaming sites" due to their complete lack of being licensed outside Japan, but I'll try to stick with that request.
If you have a US IP address, you'll be able to go over to Funimation's website and watch anything they licensed and then simulcast that they haven't released on DVD/BR yet. Shows I would recommend would be Durarara!!, The Tatami Galaxy, and Shiki.
Otherwise, your only real other way to watch recent stuff legally is Crunchyroll. And I don't use Crunchyroll, so I have no idea what they have available and for how long.
Also, I just got around to watching the most recent episode of [C], and . . . gah, this show went full retard. Nakamura, I am disappoint.
Well, I'm unsure as to how you managed to watch some of those shows without "bit torrenting or visiting shady streaming sites" due to their complete lack of being licensed outside Japan, but I'll try to stick with that request.
I used to bit torrent once a-upon a time but stopped when my computer was compromised due to it, other than that, I've seen them on Netflix, youtube, TV, or have the DVDs for them.
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If you have a US IP address, you'll be able to go over to Funimation's website and watch anything they licensed and then simulcast that they haven't released on DVD/BR yet. Shows I would recommend would be Durarara!!, The Tatami Galaxy, and Shiki.
Otherwise, your only real other way to watch recent stuff legally is Crunchyroll. And I don't use Crunchyroll, so I have no idea what they have available and for how long.
Hey people, look what I found recently!
The ultimate cute machine!
Feels like the cute version of a tachikoma blended with that creepy stalker of the Decepticons that stayed always on Cybertron and turned into a massive gun with the Invids of the Sourthern Cross series and one of the Zion mechs from Gundam !
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Re: General Anime Discussion: Area 11
