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Old 06-02-2011, 07:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Cadian 9th
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Default Team Primeval

Disclaimer: This is not the way to normally play DnD. Every character, combination and what have you is not meant for normal play. I acknowledge the fact that nearly every single thing about the Team is overpowered. Please do not take this opportunity to discuss how broken 3.5 is.

Full credit to Douglas for his Team Solar - it's the main inspiration for this Team. That guy is a genius.

A few months ago, I had a brainwave to create " Team Balor ", an intended team similar to Team Solar, except evil. I challenged Douglas to a match, but he's a busy guy so it's not happened yet. After sitting around with some half completed builds and combinations, I decided to push through a complete them, then try and find a DM brave enough to run a game for them, or a PvP match for them. I got really into making them into "real" characters, detailing their lairs and general tactics. To this end I'll be posting up some NPC stuff for them in case some DM wants to challenge epic level characters.

Enough ramble, onto the Team!

Early in the process I realized Balors are rather sub optimal, so switched to Pit Fiends. The name was changed to Team Primeval... I also prefer Lawful Evil over all over alignments and was tossing around the idea of characters who don't view themselves as evil, eccentric enigmas of moral philosophy.

Mechanics
I've taken a RAI approach, and self restricted myself in the following ways:
  • No Infinite Loops
  • No Damage Immunity (This ruled out Favor of the Matyr)
  • Max 3 Dark Chaos Feat Shuffles on each character, no Shuffling feats like Familiar granted Alertness.
  • Maximum one ally (I picked an around 22 HD Dragon)

Where there's a fuzzy rules thing, I've taken the conservative definition. (This includes Reserves of Strength). ACs start at a high value because listing out all the static AC would take too long.

I've listed all the buffs and how my characters got to how they are in the 3rd post down. It also includes how I went about buffing my characters. Just to reiterate, I'm posting these for critique, comments, but mostly a brave DM or an opponent for PvP.

Rai, Shadowmagus
Spoiler


//Background

Fatemagus
Spoiler


*//Background
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Last edited by Cadian 9th : 06-02-2011 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Cadian 9th
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Default Re: Team Primeval

And now for 3 more:

Sariss, Eldritch Knight
Spoiler


Lysander, Archmagus
Spoiler


Horus, Crusader
Spoiler


//Background
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Last edited by Cadian 9th : 06-02-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Cadian 9th
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Default Re: Team Primeval

And for a few more....

Lorthos, Warblade
Spoiler


//Background

Saphiron, Dragon
Spoiler


Saphiron's Skills and Feats are left blank because the DM gets to decide that.

Buffing Procedure:
Spoiler


Bufflist:
Spoiler


Daily Life:
Spoiler


EDIT: Background up on Monday, as well as NPC stuff.

Open for comment/advice/declarations of bravery/various compliments
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Last edited by Cadian 9th : 06-02-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Niezck
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Default Re: Team Primeval

I only barely understand some of this but it's safe to say I'm amazed by the complexity and the time you've put in! O_O

Just ... woah.
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Tvtyrant
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Why the Monk on your Eldritch Knight? Your wearing armor so it does not seem to do much.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Cadian 9th
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
I only barely understand some of this but it's safe to say I'm amazed by the complexity and the time you've put in! O_O

Just ... woah.
Thanks - I'll work on explaining it over the weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
Why the Monk on your Eldritch Knight? Your wearing armor so it does not seem to do much.
None of the party (except the Praetorian, Lorthos) are wearing armor. I needed monk to easily qualify for Snap Kick, to get Sun School and also meant I could dump strength for Power Attack by getting it as a bonus feat. Additionally it provides the class skills needed to get Jump for Leap Attack. The +10 ft speed from Carmendine Monk is superflous, I admit. I think I'll swap it out for something else.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:16 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
arguskos
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Wow. Something that makes Team Solar look balanced. Very well done, sir, very well done.

I'd love to see that deathmatch between Team Solar and Team Pit Fiend here.
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Last edited by arguskos : 06-02-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:14 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
ragingrage
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Default Re: Team Primeval

And when Team Solar and Team Pit Fiend clashed, there was a great explosion. And at the end of it, there was nothing left in the Multiverse but Pun-Pun.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Hecuba
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingrage View Post
And when Team Solar and Team Pit Fiend clashed, there was a great explosion. And at the end of it, there was nothing left in the Multiverse but Pun-Pun.
Oh, I'm sure the Wish and the Word will be around there somewhere.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
arguskos
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecuba View Post
Oh, I'm sure the Wish and the Word will be around there somewhere.
Man, it's been AGES since I've thought about the Wish and the Word. I need to explore them again, they're too much fun, especially the Word, who was a masterpiece of creative abuse of the Savage Species rituals.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:39 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
NineThePuma
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Subscribing.

Seeing this is reminding me that I have to work on the Seven.

Seriously, I'm thinking of recruiting Lynd to assist me His optimization skills might help me put a dent in your awesomeness.

@Not Cadian:
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #12
douglas
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Oh yeah, I've been forgetting about this thing. I'll give it a thorough inspection later, but I've got two issues with it already:
1) "Aspect of the Deity" is, judging by a google search, from the 3.0 book Defenders of the Faith. While the official WotC stance is that unupdated 3.0 material is 3.5 legal, in practice it's usually on an individual approval basis and frowned on. You should really limit yourself to non-3.0 material, I think. Even aside from that, the Visage of the Deity line of spells is clearly an updated version of the same thing, and it being 3.0 is probably the only reason the name change wasn't noted in Spell Compendium. They're the same spell, use only one and make it the most recent version.
2) I haven't studied the way you did it in detail yet, but using Good and - especially - Sanctified spells for an evil team seems Wrong in a rather major way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
Man, it's been AGES since I've thought about the Wish and the Word. I need to explore them again, they're too much fun, especially the Word, who was a masterpiece of creative abuse of the Savage Species rituals.
As I recall, the Word was based on a severe misinterpretation of Ur-Priest caster level plus stacking Ioun Stones which shouldn't work either. And the Wish, well, there's a reason the spell duplication item pricing guidelines are guidelines rather than rules.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:38 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Vulaas
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: Team Primeval

How are you casting spells with your Body Outside Body clones?
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
Acrux
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Oh man, when I saw the title of this thread I came in prepared to discuss how to build Nick and Helen Cutter. Then I read the content and was just totally confused.
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Tvtyrant
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrux View Post
Oh man, when I saw the title of this thread I came in prepared to discuss how to build Nick and Helen Cutter. Then I read the content and was just totally confused.
Commoner level 1-3. They can't even fistfight raptors!
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Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
Finding out that the ennui and cynicism of our times is not, after all, an unavoidable unreverseable fate does kind of throw your world-view off, potentially.
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Old 06-05-2011, 04:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Cadian 9th
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Default Re: Team Primeval

Quote:
Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
Wow. Something that makes Team Solar look balanced. Very well done, sir, very well done.

I'd love to see that deathmatch between Team Solar and Team Pit Fiend here.
Can I sig the first part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by douglas View Post
Oh yeah, I've been forgetting about this thing. I'll give it a thorough inspection later, but I've got two issues with it already:
1) "Aspect of the Deity" is, judging by a google search, from the 3.0 book Defenders of the Faith. While the official WotC stance is that unupdated 3.0 material is 3.5 legal, in practice it's usually on an individual approval basis and frowned on. You should really limit yourself to non-3.0 material, I think. Even aside from that, the Visage of the Deity line of spells is clearly an updated version of the same thing, and it being 3.0 is probably the only reason the name change wasn't noted in Spell Compendium. They're the same spell, use only one and make it the most recent version.
2) I haven't studied the way you did it in detail yet, but using Good and - especially - Sanctified spells for an evil team seems Wrong in a rather major way.

As I recall, the Word was based on a severe misinterpretation of Ur-Priest caster level plus stacking Ioun Stones which shouldn't work either. And the Wish, well, there's a reason the spell duplication item pricing guidelines are guidelines rather than rules.
No problem, I figured you were busy. You may have to step up Team Solar a bit, currently I hit you on a natural 1 (2d20b1, so only a .4% miss chance), and you only hit me on a natural 20, and you can't beat my spell resistance. I'd suggest Algid Enhancement.

1) It's in Book of Exalted Deeds, Apostle of Peace 9, Herald 9, Exalted Arcanist 9. Transmutation [Good]. It appears on different spell lists than the cleric version and Spell Compendium doesn't say that they're the same spell.

2) The Sanctified spell (Greater Luminous Armor) is cast using Miracle, and the Archivist (And other casters for that matter) don't have restrictions on what alignment spells they can cast. I do agree that it's rather Wrong, but hey, Rai doesn't think he's actually evil.

On the Wish and the Word: Not only are they relying on an item for initial startup, it's an illegal item, and every thing the Wish does can be stamped on by a DM. Additionally, the FaQ specifically calls out Innate Spell as not qualifying for Supernatural Transformation... I still love the duo.

As for the match between this Team and the Wish and the Word, we're immune to the blasphemy/holy word/word of chaos/word of balance line, and cleaning up the wish is as simple as gating them into a Selective Spell'd (The spellguard ability, excluding Dragon type) AMF while Saphiron beats the stuffing out of them. No contigent wishes, no wishes full stop and a big dragon who can freely beat you up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulaas View Post
How are you casting spells with your Body Outside Body clones?
They have miracle 2/day as a spell like ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrux View Post
Oh man, when I saw the title of this thread I came in prepared to discuss how to build Nick and Helen Cutter. Then I read the content and was just totally confused.
LOVE THAT SERIES. Still haven't seen series 4 and 5 yet, though.

EDIT: Updating the OP with more information.
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