[3.5] Races of War: Balancing the Samurai (PEACH)

[Hawkflight]

Hello everyone. I'm going to keep this short, so you can get onto the meat of this class, but first a little backstory. I've always liked the samurai as a concept, and recently I've found myself able to play one in a high-level campaign. Unfortunately, most of the WotC-published samurai either suck (CW) or are made for 3.0 (Rokugan). I then happened across Frank and K's Samurai class from their Tomes, which seemed to be just what I was looking for. Unfortunately, the Tomes are a different system, and it's a bit unbalanced. This is my attempt to both convert the Samurai class to standard D&D 3.5, and also to balance it out.

I'm not sure what to do with a lot of this stuff, so I'm going to be relying on reader input. So please, please, please PEACH.

For your convenience, here is the original Tome's Samurai: http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Samurai,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)

Making a Samurai

Alignment: The Samurai can be of any alignment. All of them must maintain the veneer of honor and civility, though there is no reason that they have to actually be Lawful.

Races: The Samurai is primarily found in societies where the law of the land is held in primacy over other things. So while a Samurai himself does not have to be Lawful, Lawful races bear the vast majority of Samurai.

Starting Gold: 4d6x10 gp (140 gold), plus one masterwork weapon.

Starting Age: As Fighter.

Table: The Samurai (Hit Die: d10)

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Class Features
1st	+1	+0	+0	+2	Ancestral Weaponry, Pledge of Loyalty, The Edge
2nd	+2	+0	+0	+3
3rd	+3	+1	+1	+3
4th	+4	+1	+1	+4
5th	+5	+1	+1	+4	Ancestral Guidance
6th	+6/+1	+2	+2	+5
7th	+7/+2	+2	+2	+5	Iaijutsu
8th	+8/+3	+2	+2	+6
9th	+9/+4	+3	+3	+6
10th	+10/+5	+3	+3	+7	Blade of Devastation
11th	+11/+6/+1	+3	+3	+7	Iaijutsu Focus
12th	+12/+7/+2	+4	+4	+8
13th	+13/+8/+3	+4	+4	+8
14th	+14/+9/+4	+4	+4	+9
15th	+15/+10/+5	+5	+5	+9	Iaijutsu Master
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+5	+5	+10
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+5	+5	+10
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+6	+6	+11
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+6	+6	+11	Iaijutsu Grandmaster
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+6	+6	+12

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level)
Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis) Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

ISSUES:

What I'm going to do is I'm going to address each of these class features one by one, and address them individually before adding them back in. So, I would like to discuss each of them individually, then add them back into the table.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Samurai are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as a single exotic weapon appropriate to the Samurai's tradition. Samurai are proficient with light and medium Armor, but not with shields of any kind.

Spoiler

This one's good, I don't think we need to worry about this one.

Ancestral Weaponry: Every culture with a Samurai tradition has a signature weapon that Samurai from that culture use. Whether it is the Spiked Chain of the Hobgoblin Khanate of Khadun or the Katana of the Human Empire of Rokugan, the weapon serves as a symbol of the office and prowess of the Samurai.

A samurai can only have one weapon designated as his Ancestral Weapon at a time, and this weapon must be a masterwork weapon exalted by the Samurai's warrior culture. He must perform a 24 hour ritual to call his ancestral spirits into the weapon and designate it as his Ancestral Weapon. This ritual costs 100 gp in incense and offerings, and once performed grants the following abilities:

• Counts as his Ancestral Weapon for all Samurai abilities.
• Has a minimum enhancement bonus to attack and damage equal to his level divided by three (maximum of +5 for a samurai of 20th level or lower).
• The Ancestral weapon has double HPs and +10 Hardness, and has the Ghost Touch special property.

Example: Bandy Humaido is a halfling samurai, and his people greatly extort the halfling skiprock as a weapon of war – but because the skiprock is thrown weapon ammunition, it is inappropriate as an Ancestral Weapon (which, of course, you could only have one of). As such, Bandy instead draws the power of his ancestors into a short sword.

Spoiler

Personally, I think this one's good too, so I'm leaving it in. If anyone disagrees, I'm happy to hear their argument and consider changes.

Pledge of Loyalty: Samurai pledge their loyalty to a Lord, a figure of temporal power and head of a noble family or clan. To retain this Lord, they must follow this Lord's orders and uphold any Code of Conduct the Lord obeys. As long as a Samurai does these two things, he cannot be forced to act against his Lord or Lord's family by mind-affecting effects.

Samurai who have broken their vows to their lord are called ronin, while samurai who have never been pledged to a lord or are unwilling to do so are weaponmasters called kensai, sword saints, or simply "master swordsman" or other descriptive title. Regardless of their name, Samurai without a Lord receive a +4 bonus against mind-affecting effects.

Spoiler

Same as above.

The Edge: If a Samurai's BAB is higher than his opponent's, he is considered to have the Edge on all attacks made against that opponent.

Spoiler

This one actually has to stay in, unless we want to completely rewrite some of the class features due to rules changes.

Horde Breaker: A Samurai gains Horde Breaker as a bonus feat at 2nd level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose a Combat Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat.

Spoiler

This doesn't work with the conversion. We need to break this up into several separate feats and abilities, inserted at the appropriate levels.

Kiai! (Ex): At 3rd level, a Samurai may convert a successful strike into a confirmed critical hit. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his half his Samurai level + 2. This ability is a free action that is declared after the strike is rolled and confirmed as a hit, but before damage is rolled. This ability cannot be used on Attacks of Opportunity.

Spoiler

This ability is unbalanced, by general consensus, and needs rebalancing. I am open to advice on this ability.

Whirlwind Attack: A Samurai gains Whirlwind as a bonus feat at 4th level.

Spoiler

See 'Horde Breaker'.

Ancestral Guidance (Sp): At 5th level, a Samurai may seek guidance from his ancestors. This counts as a commune effect that can be used once a day. A samurai can also seek guidance from other peoples' ancestors if they are available. This works like a speak with dead effect that may be used once per day.

Spoiler

This one's good, so I'm leaving it in. It's really more of plot-driving machine anyways.

Blindfighting: A Samurai gains Blind Fighting as a bonus feat at 6th level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose a Combat Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat.

Spoiler

Again, see 'Horde Breaker'.

Terrible Blows (Su): At 6th level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon bypasses Damage Reduction and ignores Hardness.

Spoiler

I think this ability is fairly balanced, but it needs to occur at higher levels. Thoughts?

Iaijutsu (Ex): When a 7th level Samurai has the Edge on an opponent, he may take an Attack of Opportunity against that opponent as an immediate action at any time. In addition, he may make one extra Attack of Opportunity per round.

Spoiler

This is another ability I think is fine, so I'm leaving it in. As always, I am open to opposing viewpoints.

Parry Magic (Su): At 8th level, a Samurai may use his Ancestral Weapon to parry magic targeted at him. When the Samurai is targeted by a spell or supernatural ability, he may take an Attack of Opportunity against the targeted effect. If he can make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC with this Attack of Opportunity, the effect does not affect him.

Spoiler

This one is pretty broken, and needs rebalancing. Maybe if it instead worked like Evasion?

Subtle Cut: A Samurai gains Subtle Cut as a bonus feat at 9th level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose another Combat Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat.

See 'Horde Breaker'.

Blade of Devastation (Su): At 10th level, the Samurai may attack enemies within his reach through objects and walls, his Ancestral Weapon automatically destroying any unattended object or wall in the way with a Hardness less than 20. As a result, enemies do not gain cover bonuses against an attacking Samurai. As a standard action, he can also destroy unattended objects of any Hardness with a successful Ancestral weapon attack.

Spoiler

I actually think this ability is fairly balanced, but again I'm open to opposing viewpoints. I'm keeping it in for now.

Iaijutsu Focus (Ex): At 11th level, a Samurai may make up to his per round limit of Attacks of Opportunity against any opponent(s) that he threatens as an immediate action. In addition, he may make another extra Attack of Opportunity per round.

Spoiler

See 'Iaijutsu'.

Cut Magic (Su): At 12th level, a Samurai may attack ongoing spell effects by attacking the square they are in for Area of Effect effects or the object or person for targeted effects (which does damage as normal to the object or person). This attack is handled like the Samurai's Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability.

Spoiler

This one also needs rebalancing, but I'm not sure what to do with it. I could use opinions on this one.

Deny Caster Defenses (Ex): At 13th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from spells or spell-like abilities.

Spoiler

Is this one balanced? Part of me says it is, but another part of me has its doubts. I'm leaving this one open to discussion before adding it back in.

Final Cut (Ex): At 14th level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon gains the Vorpal special quality, even if it is not a slashing weapon.

Spoiler

Uh ... this strikes me as a bad idea. Vorpal is fairly overpowered, according to some. Personally, I think the requirement of a nat 20 balances it out a bit, but ... I'm leaving this one open to discussion, but I might just delete this ability altogether.

Iaijutsu Master (Ex): At 15th level, any enemy struck by a Samurai's Attacks of Opportunity must make a Fortitude save against a DC equal to 10 + ½ the Samurai's HD + the Samurai's Wisdom bonus or be dazed for one round. A successful save against this effect makes the enemy immune to this effect for five rounds. In addition, he may make another extra Attack of Opportunity per round.

Spoiler

See 'Iaijutsu'.

Reflect Magic (Su): At 16th level, an spell effect that would be dispelled by a successful use of the Samurai's Parry Magic ability can instead be reflected back on the caster, as per a spell turning effect.

Spoiler

The ability to reflect spells is nothing new, it's an ACF that the Rogue gets at level 2. But the Parry agic ability needs work, so this might require some reworking as well to work in line with the new Parry Magic. On its own merit, this ability is actually fairly balanced, however.

Blade of Souls: At 17th level, any enemy killed by a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon has his soul sucked into it, and this enemy cannot be raised, resurrected, or otherwise returned to life until the Ancestral Blade is broken. Each time the Ancestral Weapon takes a soul, the Samurai gains a single bonus use of his Kiai! ability that must be used before the next sunrise.

Spoiler

I has some serious doubts about this ability, I think we should just get rid of it altogether.

Deny Armor (Su): At 18th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from armor or natural armor.

Spoiler

This ability is awesome, but is it balanced? Discuss.

Iaijutsu Grandmaster (Ex): At 19th level, any Attack of Opportunity made by the Samurai is automatically a confirmed critical hit. In addition, he may make another extra Attack of Opportunity per round.

Spoiler

See 'Iaijutsu'.

Scrolls of Wisdom: At 20th level, the Samurai has reached the pinnacle of his art, and he may compose a treatise of his collected wisdom. If he spends one month composing this treatise, he may distribute it and spread his wisdom. Anyone who reads this treatise gains a +2 competence bonus to attack characters with Samurai levels, but a -8 penalty to attack the writer of the treatise.

In addition, a Samurai who writes his treatise no longer takes ability penalties for aging as long as one copy of the treatise exists.

Spoiler

This ability is fine ... but I'm not sur eit;s particularly good as a capstone ability. Maybe if I swapped it with the 18th level ability?

[Jade Dragon]

There's nothing on the page you linked.

[Hawkflight]

Ugh, it always does that. Fixed.

[Ziegander]

I fail to see what, if anything, you have changed from the original other than to make RoW's Edge rule into a class feature.

[true_shinken]

So, where is the conversion?

[stainboy]

Horde Breaker doesn't work as a feat in 3.5. You might break it into a set of class features. It breaks down cleanly into Combat Reflexes -> Great Cleave -> Supreme Cleave -> fear thing -> edge thing.

When you get around to balance, Tyndmyr did a critique of the Tome samurai in a high-op 3.5 game here.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by stainboy

When you get around to balance, Tyndmyr did a critique of the Tome samurai in a high-op 3.5 game here.

Read Tyndmyr's review, and I agree. Glass cannon is not a role for a melee fighter. Melees are not meant to do as much damage (unless you're a rogue, but that's not really melee. Plus you have to have certain circumstances for that to work, whereas the tome samurai just seems to be able to get a bunch of criticals every day), but they are meant to take more damage. Give them a d12 hit die and take out the Kiai! ability.

[stainboy]

I wouldn't take it out, but I would go back to the drawing board on it. Samurai smite is a fine idea but I'd rather it not hand out damage through auto-crits. Static bonus or bonus dice, maybe. I'd even prefer a flat x2 multiplier that isn't technically a crit.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by stainboy

I wouldn't take it out, but I would go back to the drawing board on it. Samurai smite is a fine idea but I'd rather it not hand out damage through auto-crits. Static bonus or bonus dice, maybe. I'd even prefer a flat x2 multiplier that isn't technically a crit.

With this many times per day, it shouldn't be stronger than a paladin's smite, especially since it can be used against anyone. How about if Kiai! was changed to just add one point of damage per level (not samurai level, just level. Though the times/day would still be keyed off samurai level).

I'd still say give them at least a d10 hit die.

[Ziegander]

I'd argue that any per day class feature that adds damage to a melee attack should ALWAYS be stronger than a Paladin's Smite. Smite Evil is among the worst, most useless class features in the game.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Ziegander

I'd argue that any per day class feature that adds damage to a melee attack should ALWAYS be stronger than a Paladin's Smite. Smite Evil is among the worst, most useless class features in the game.

Um, at 20th level, a paladin can use a weaker version it five times/day. The samurai can use a stronger version twelve times/day. Plus, this class is stronger than the paladin anyway.

[Ziegander]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

Um, at 20th level, a paladin can use a weaker version it five times/day. The samurai can use a stronger version twelve times/day. Plus, this class is stronger than the paladin anyway.

I didn't say that I think the Tome Samurai's Kiai! ability is appropriate, did I? But your comment that it's too powerful because it can be used more often than Smite Evil and deals more damage is really just, well, ill-informed.

It could be +4 to hit, +1d6/Samurai level damage, usable against anyone, 3/day at 1st level +1/day at every odd level thereafter, and I would argue that it would be completely fine.

It could be as simple as X/day (up to 12) declare a use of Kiai! on a successful hit to double any damage dealt by the attack and I would argue that it would be completely fine (maybe with the caveat that Kiai can't be used in combination with a critical hit, maybe not).

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Ziegander

I didn't say that I think the Tome Samurai's Kiai! ability is appropriate, did I? But your comment that it's too powerful because it can be used more often than Smite Evil and deals more damage is really just, well, ill-informed.

It could be +4 to hit, +1d6/Samurai level damage, usable against anyone, 3/day at 1st level +1/day at every odd level thereafter, and I would argue that it would be completely fine.

It could be as simple as X/day (up to 12) declare a use of Kiai! on a successful hit to double any damage dealt by the attack and I would argue that it would be completely fine (maybe with the caveat that Kiai can't be used in combination with a critical hit, maybe not).

I think it should be +4 attack, and +1/damage per samurai level.

[Ziegander]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

I think it should be +4 attack, and +1/damage per samurai level.

That's weaker than a Paladin's Smite Evil which is already pathetically bad. A Paladin could get Smite Evil at-will and even with splat-diving for ACFs and Battle Blessing it would still remain firmly Tier 4.

On the other hand, the Races of War Samurai is attempting to be a very powerful Tier 3 class, and as such it needs damage tools at least on par with what a Crusader or Warblade get.

[Jade Dragon]

Originally Posted by Ziegander

That's weaker than a Paladin's Smite Evil which is already pathetically bad. A Paladin could get Smite Evil at-will and even with splat-diving for ACFs and Battle Blessing it would still remain firmly Tier 4.

On the other hand, the Races of War Samurai is attempting to be a very powerful Tier 3 class, and as such it needs damage tools at least on par with what a Crusader or Warblade get.

How is it weaker? Unless you use cloak of charisma shenanigans or have really high charisma, it's better.

[Ziegander]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

How is it weaker? Unless you use cloak of charisma shenanigans or have really high charisma, it's better.

*facepalm*

Cloak of Charisma = shenanigans?

A Paladin is going to have a "really high" Charisma by the time he reaches 20th level. Paladins ALL wear Cloak of Charisma. Those that don't are doing it wrong. And not because of Smite Evil, but because of Divine Grace. A Human Paladin with starting stats of Str 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 14 is as run of the mill as they come and that character should, with no eye for optimization whatsoever, have Str 26 Dex 12 Con 20 Int 8 Wis 14 Cha 25 by the time he reaches 20th level.

[Prime32]

Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose

How is it weaker? Unless you use cloak of charisma shenanigans or have really high charisma, it's better.

...wha?

Even the Core books assume that every paladin will have a cloak of charisma. The default stat blocks for an NPC paladin give one to them. Magic Item Compendium even changes the pricing rules so that you can still have "the items you always need" in addition to the interesting ones (combining ability-boosting items with other items does not cost x1.5).

[Hawkflight]

Originally Posted by Ziegander

I fail to see what, if anything, you have changed from the original other than to make RoW's Edge rule into a class feature.

Originally Posted by true_shinken

So, where is the conversion?

Okay, that's weird. I know I had more changes than that.

Oh well. Anyways, I'm now going to start work on balancing the class. This is turning out to be rather difficult, so I'm going to be relying on reader feedback a lot. So please, discuss and PEACH.

[T.G. Oskar]

Originally Posted by Ziegander

I'd argue that any per day class feature that adds damage to a melee attack should ALWAYS be stronger than a Paladin's Smite. Smite Evil is among the worst, most useless class features in the game.

I'd beg to differ. It's certainly underpowered, but far from useless.

For starters, it's meant to be burst damage. You won't use it all the time. Of course, they went a bit far with it making it a daily use; it looks worse if only because Rage is a great daily feature, and one of the models of correctly-done daily class features; something that can last for pretty much the entire encounter and that provides a lasting effect. Per encounter uses do a lot to fix that. I mean, compare Smite Evil to an ability that ALWAYS remains active (say, Favored Enemy)...

Second, it adds static damage, meaning critical hits improve that damage. It's like adding Power Attack...which, with adding your Charisma to damage, means you can sacrifice some of your BAB and add it to...say, a two-handed weapon for even more damage. And, I mean, if you're not trying to multiply your damage, you're not even trying to be melee. Unless you have a different perspective towards melee, but YMMV.

Third, it works against a very reasonable number of enemies. There's quite a lot of evil monsters around, much more than those vulnerable to sneak attack for sure. Otherwise, that'd make Holy weapons a bad idea to get, since anything that gets extra damage from Holy weapons gets extra damage from the smite attempt.

Now, I can realize why you may see Smites as a bad idea, and that's mostly the standard action clause. I do agree that it's silly, and that making a smite more of a boost to your attacks rather than a special attack of its own which only adds damage really doesn't help the ability, much less an ability meant to be daily. However, it's certainly full of utilities, more if you can work around them: Awesome Smite, for example, allows you to trip with smites, which works incredibly well as a method of control, or ignore DR or concealment (two troubles behind melee). Exploiting crits, for example, increases damage. Strength of Conviction removes that requirement of "only works on evil creatures". The problem there isn't really the smite (it has its issues, but you can work behind them) but the Paladin's absolutely horrible feat starvation. But, Smites aren't really a bad idea once you get used to them. It's much more useful than, say, a favored enemy bonus which progresses terribly or a flurry of misses you can't use while moving. That's what Smite Evil compares against, and in that range, the Barbarian reigns supreme with Rage.

As for Smite & Charisma shenanigans; the +4 bonus to attack rolls is really, really ineffective. The Paladin's Smite's bonus to attack relies on the Paladin's Charisma, and this bonus implies that the Paladin must have a Charisma of 18 or higher. Generally, you want a Charisma of 18 or higher; what happens is that you can't have it at the exclusion of everything else, since you also need Strength, Constitution and Wisdom alongside it (with Wisdom a less necessary choice). I do agree, that if you're working with so many daily uses, it better be good. Not merely better than the Paladin's Smite (because the Smite needs some more love), but comparable to Rage. If you're attempting for burst damage done about 12 times per day, you better have a rider effect with it. Auto-crits, on the other hand? Perfectly fitting, if only because they enable various things depending on your chosen weapon, not to mention potentially slaying enemies in one blow. It's no natural 20 (so it doesn't enable Vorpal), but 3~12 automatic critical hits per day isn't really a surprising endeavor (it only extends your damage output by a lot, but in the end it still limits you and you'll probably want to conserve them as they reach 3 or less). That, or as I mentioned, a rider effect (cause fear, immediate Intimidate for a demoralizing attempt, free trip, etc.) so that the attack becomes much more useful as a daily action.

Something I might say, however, is that it's rather specific in what it does. As the link mentions, it basically solves everything by cutting it with its sword. That's fine, but what about the concept of the samurai that defeats his enemies without ever drawing his sword (the concept of the ultimate warrior for those bushi whom embraced Buddhism in any aspect, whether Zen or mainland); the philosophical warrior. It has very good moves (why not be capable of deflecting and eventually slicing spells with your sword!? That's amazing!), but it doesn't have something to build archetypes around, which isn't really something good in terms of design.

Also, little translation. The concept of Edge from the Tomes really requires you to adopt it on its entirety, which implies that you're heavily adapting the rules so that martial characters remain useful. The class abilities pretty much assume that everybody has read Frank & K's Tomes, something that isn't correct; you need to explain the idea behind Edge and the class abilities in order for people to gauge better the utility of the Samurai. It currently remains incomplete.