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Old 06-13-2011, 10:45 AM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Psyren
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Default [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife


Being an optimization guide to the Pathfinder iteration of the Soulknife. Links, contributions, suggestions, and critiques are of course welcome.

Contents
Under construction.

Links

Saph's 3.5/Pathfinder Handbook - Required reading!
The Pathfinder Soulknife - at the PFSRD.
For informational/completeness purposes: the D&D (3.5) Soulknife and Sydonis' 3.5 Soulknife Handbook from Gleemax.
See also the psionic links in my signature.

Ratings

Saph's rating system - used with permission. (Slightly modified as I enjoy the color purple )

Red: Awful.
Orange: Meh.
Black: Okay.
Blue: Good.
Purple: Excellent.

Last edited by Psyren : 07-10-2011 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:46 AM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Credit for this subsection goes to Sydonis, which I shall quote in its entirety.



Why The (3.5) Soulknife Was Broken

Spoiler


Takeaways from the above breakdown:

- The Soulknife was intended for melee, but not very good at it;
- The main benefit of their class is easily replicated by WBL, and at a faster rate besides;
- Their bonus damage mechanic forces them to do the very thing they were designed NOT to do, i.e. stand around in melee;
- Their blade bonuses punish multiclassing, but their poor class features punish staying in-class;
- They were "psionic" in name only. (Literally; the book says "this is a psionic class" because otherwise you'd have no way to tell, other than the charity feat that makes any class psionic.)

DSP did a great deal to address these issues, enough so that I can confidently recommend the new Soulknife to anyone. We'll be delving deeper to find out why, but first an overview on the new Soulknife itself.

Overview
The Soulknife enjoys an infamy almost identical to that of the monk; being simultaneously one of the most beloved and most maligned base classes in WotC history. What was once a wonderful concept marred by horrible execution has been uplifted by the psionics masterminds at Dreamscarred Press.

The Soulknife's Role
The Soulknife's role, as it was in 3.5, is the skirmisher - a melee damage platform with decent mobility/positioning. By receiving an autoscaling weapon with some unique abilities, this allows them to focus their WBL on defense, or to shine in low-wealth campaigns. Their versatility allows them to overcome a variety of defenses, including damage reduction, incorporeality, energy resistance, precision-damage resistant enemies, enemies that stay distant etc.

Having said that, combat is still really the only thing they can do well, perhaps with a smattering of stealth or scouting ability. They don't have the skills (or trapfinding) necessary to be the skillmonkey, nor the party face. Also, while they can broaden their loadout with psionic feats, they don't get the utility that powers provide out of the box. I would say the new Soulknife is T4: "Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise." A step up from their 3.5 counterparts perhaps, but still not suitable for high-power campaigns. (There is a way, though, to get them into a high-power campaign - see the PrC section.)

Soulknives do, however, serve one more vital function - they are a way to "wet your DM's feet" in psionics. They get power points, which they can put to use depending on your race, feats or even a multiclass dip. They get a psionic focus. They can qualify for certain psionic feats and PrCs. They can put psionic enchantments on their blade. If your group is leery about psionics, the Soulknife is an excellent way to warm them up to the concept without them having to deal with a full-blown manifesting class; play the Soulknife in one campaign, then graduate to a Psywar, Psion or Psychic Rogue in a subsequent game. For this reason, being the weakest psionic base class can actually be a point in their favor. And unlike the D&D Soulknife, you are a still strong enough to contribute to most campaigns.

Last edited by Psyren : 03-09-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife


Class Features

Shamelessly lifted from my own handbook. I'll ask myself for permission later.
Upgrades over the 3.5 Soulknife are blue.

Chassis

Spoiler


The Mind Blade

Every mind blade has two mechanical parameters: Shape and Type.

Shape

Spoiler


Type

Spoiler



Enhancements

The Mind Blade's other trick is that it becomes a scaling, mutable magic weapon at no cost to you. You also don't care if it gets disjoined, sundered etc, as you are always free to simply make another. I'll discuss the enhancements themselves in a later post, but for now I'll cover the change to the enhancement system itself.

Spoiler


Psychic Strike: The soulknife's signature damage technique has gotten some nice buffs in Pathfinder.

Spoiler


Other Features

Spoiler


Blade Skills

These are the meat of the new soulknife, the real reason for staying in the class until 20. Blade skills allow you to customize your Soulknife to great degrees, and are involved enough to deserve their own section. The ratings will come into play here as well.

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 03-28-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:48 AM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife


Races, ACFs and Character Options

Pathfinder Soulknives share one problem in common with their 3.5 counterparts: being psionic is almost purely cosmetic for them. Thus (counterintuitively) a psionic race is usually not the best choice for one unless you plan on multiclassing later; the extra power points do nothing for you and simply becoming a Soulknife gives you access to the psionic feats you would normally have wanted the race for.

Having said that, here is a quick rundown on the Pathfinder races available and their usefulness with the Soulknife.

Core Races - Psionic

Spoiler


Core Races - Non-Psionic

Spoiler


Other Races

Spoiler


ACFs and Racial Subs

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 07-11-2011 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife


Multiclassing and Prestige Classes

The Pathfinder Soulknife is much more friendly to multiclassing than its 3.5 cousin. Often in 3.5, even PrCs designed for the soulknife would advance only the blade's enhancement bonus - not its ability pool, much less Psychic Strike. And PrCs that weren't specifically meant for the Soulknife advanced nothing at all.

PsU changes that with a new ruling, introduced in Hyperconscious and leveraged for other DSP works like Untapped Potential. It states the following:

(Buffs have again been colored blue.)

Quote:
Soulknives And Prestige Classes

Sometimes, a soulknife may qualify for a prestige class with “+1 level of existing manifesting class” as a class feature. This increased psionic training helps those who follow the path of the mind blade as well as the path of the manifester. At each level where a manifester level would increase by one, treat the soulknife as if he had gained a level of soulknife for the purposes of Enhanced Mind Blade. The soulknife does not gain any other benefits from an increased level (blade skills, etc.).

It’s less common, but sometimes a multiclass soulknife enters one of these prestige classes with a bit of manifesting talent. In high psionics games, for this special case, each indicated level of the prestige class advances both the soulknife’s Enhanced Mind Blade, as above, and his existing manifester level by one level. In games that are not high psionics, choose one or the other to increase, but not both.
Psionic Prestige Classes: Core

Spoiler


Psionic Prestige Classes: Splat

Under construction.

Prestige Classes: Core

Spoiler


Prestige Classes: Splat

Under construction.

Last edited by Psyren : 07-02-2011 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:50 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife


Useful Feats

In this section, I'll compile a list of handy feats for Soulknives, keeping in mind their melee focus, durability (or lack thereof) and above all their psionic nature. Though they don't actually use psionics for much, getting Wild Talent for free gives Soulknives access to psionic feats; an advantage that more mentally mundane martial classes (like Barbarians, Fighters, Monks etc.) do not share.

There are also a number of feats specifically designed for Soulknives - some good, some less than good. Where possible, I will highlight the treats (and traps) for what they are.

Psionic Feats

Under construction

Non-Psionic Feats

Under construction

Last edited by Psyren : 07-11-2011 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

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Old 06-13-2011, 10:52 AM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:55 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Last one - post away.

I wasn't kidding when I said help is welcome btw - melee is not my forté, so writing this is as much about my own edification as anyone else's.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:58 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
Last one - post away.

I wasn't kidding when I said help is welcome btw - melee is not my forté, so writing this is as much about my own edification as anyone else's.
I'll say this: PF Soulknife is 100% better than 3.5 Soulknife. Heck, almost every class is better in Pathfinder (minus Monk, who once again gets the shaft)
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:02 AM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
I'll say this: PF Soulknife is 100% better than 3.5 Soulknife. Heck, almost every class is better in Pathfinder (minus Monk, who once again gets the shaft)
Base monk, definitely. The Hungry Ghost Archtype on a crit-fishing build can, by reports I've had, be incredibly effective as far as melee combatants go.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:05 AM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Hmmm interesting; I am not too familiar with pathfinder; but I have read the PF Soulknife and I really liked what I saw.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

i tryed the 3.5 version, and was really disappointed (and eventually had my gm kill him of so i could make a new character..)
however I DO like the changes in pathfinder, and ill be happy to play the new version :D
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Question about Psychic Strike: Aren't Undead et al still immune to ability point damage, and thus still immune to Psychic Strike? Or did they change that in Pathfinder?

Also, still seems like it's a high Tier 4 (or maybe a very low Tier 3) class. Full BAB, ok Skills/Armor/Saves, a free magic weapon or two (which is notably important for TWF builds, but not that big of deal for everyone else), a couple of bonus feats which are mostly mandated, and some Blade Skills. The Blade Skills are nifty, but most of the good ones require expending psionic focus or psychic strike, and in general they're a lot less impressive then maneuvers, soulmelds, psychic powers, or vestiges. I reminds me very much of their Monk fix - it adds a ton of stuff, but none of it is particularly impressive.
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Quote:
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Question about Psychic Strike: Aren't Undead et al still immune to ability point damage, and thus still immune to Psychic Strike? Or did they change that in Pathfinder?
Only Knife to the Soul incurs ability damage (and has been moved to a Blade Skill rather than a separate ability.) Psychic Strike is just additional HP damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
Also, still seems like it's a high Tier 4 (or maybe a very low Tier 3) class. Full BAB, ok Skills/Armor/Saves, a free magic weapon or two (which is notably important for TWF builds, but not that big of deal for everyone else), a couple of bonus feats which are mostly mandated, and some Blade Skills. The Blade Skills are nifty, but most of the good ones require expending psionic focus or psychic strike, and in general they're a lot less impressive then maneuvers, soulmelds, psychic powers, or vestiges. I reminds me very much of their Monk fix - it adds a ton of stuff, but none of it is particularly impressive.
1) Monk fix was Paizo actually - Soulknife is Dreamscarred Press.
2) I never said it was T3. T4 is perfectly playable in most games. (See also: Warlock, Scout.) In high-power/high-OP games, you're better off with a SW Psywar bare minimum, and a Tashalatora Ardent for melee ideally.
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

I could see a PF Soulknife/Samurai/Iaijutsu Master being very fun. The scene would be like the Cantina scene in SW Episode 4:

Thug approaches the character, picking a fight
Thug: "Get out of my Seat"
Character: "You don't want to fight me..."
Thug: "But you're unarmed..."
Character draws his mind blade and Iaijutsu slashes him for an Instant-Kill
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:43 AM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Core races (psionic and non-psionic) have been updated. I think for the "Other" races I'll stick with Faerun, Eberron and Planar Handbook, but I'll skip that for now and move onto PrCs.

Any feedback is appreciated, particularly if you disagree with any of my ratings.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:03 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
Core races (psionic and non-psionic) have been updated. I think for the "Other" races I'll stick with Faerun, Eberron and Planar Handbook, but I'll skip that for now and move onto PrCs.

Any feedback is appreciated, particularly if you disagree with any of my ratings.
Xephs have something to bring to the table: Feats. Xeph Bladestorm is exclusive racial feat for them. For Higher Levels, a Xeph PF Soulknife 10/Kensei 10 would be amazing
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
Xephs have something to bring to the table: Feats. Xeph Bladestorm is exclusive racial feat for them. For Higher Levels, a Xeph PF Soulknife 10/Kensei 10 would be amazing
Good point; I had not, in fact, looked at any of the racial subs or feats when determining those ratings (as they are DM-dependent) but allowing them should tweak the ratings somewhat. More builds have room for them too since you get more feats in Pathfinder.

I'll add them in when I do the ACF section, and perhaps change to a dual-rating system - one for the base race, and one with everything allowed.

In addition, I'll throw in the Racial subs from Untapped Potential too, since it is written by the same authors as PsU.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:32 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

This is a great start to the guide. I'd just like to point out that the Duergar entry is misformatted.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
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Does anybody see a reason why we still have to wait until 14th level to make a full attack at range with a mind blade? Also it still needs a better standard action attack option (but that is a standard problem in PF not just the SK).

I agree on the too many options but most don't do too much. I see the the blade stuff and my eyes just glaze over from too much info and not a quick way to cut through the chaff. So I really like you making this guide so I can more easily look up what I would do if I took this so thanks and good luck!
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Update: Core PrCs (both psionic and non-psionic) have been rated, and info on the Soulknife's Role has been added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
This is a great start to the guide. I'd just like to point out that the Duergar entry is misformatted.
Thanks, and fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
Does anybody see a reason why we still have to wait until 14th level to make a full attack at range with a mind blade? Also it still needs a better standard action attack option (but that is a standard problem in PF not just the SK).
I would honestly use the Soulbow, or wait for PsiEx's Soulbolt, to consider making the Soulknife range-focused. Throwing the mind blade seems to me intended to be an alternative attack for niche situations, rather than a dedicated build for the Soulknife. However, making the blade benefit from Powerful Build does open you up to a strength-based thrower (with the right PrCs.)

The base Soulknife can do range, even aoe range; but as you've pointed out, doesn't really get good at it for awhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
I agree on the too many options but most don't do too much. I see the the blade stuff and my eyes just glaze over from too much info and not a quick way to cut through the chaff. So I really like you making this guide so I can more easily look up what I would do if I took this so thanks and good luck!
You're welcome!

I'm truly excited to see what new Blade Skills PsiEx will bring to the table. I don't think any will really push it to T3, but the right ones could really help with the core issues of the class (i.e. having to choose between mobility and psychic strike in most cases.)
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

i made a group of lvl 8 heroes to challenge my group. they are all the most powerfull thing i could make in pathfinder. and one is a pure soulknife and i find it to be a real powerfull class.

i can easily deal 5d6 damage plus 6 per hit and bump that up by 2d6/2d8 on a big hit. i see it as a powerfull class, or maybe im just a good optimizer.

if you were wondering the mini/max party was:
a summoner with the fused archtype that has massive HP.
a cleric who summons about 60 HD worth of undead.
The soulknife.
A artificer that makes people explode from 6-7 squares away with a realy hard save.
And a psion, but the psion might get swapped out.

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Old 07-02-2011, 02:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Always been a fan of the Soulknife despite its flaws and good to see a handbook spreading the word that you can do fun things with it. My only point of contention is with the use of Orange in ratings, as I keep thinking its Gold as in Awesome like in other guides, which throws me off when I read the description on how subpar it is. Maybe that's just me but I thought I'd point it out.
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:57 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
Update: Core PrCs (both psionic and non-psionic) have been rated, and info on the Soulknife's Role has been added.



Thanks, and fixed.



I would honestly use the Soulbow, or wait for PsiEx's Soulbolt, to consider making the Soulknife range-focused. Throwing the mind blade seems to me intended to be an alternative attack for niche situations, rather than a dedicated build for the Soulknife. However, making the blade benefit from Powerful Build does open you up to a strength-based thrower (with the right PrCs.)

The base Soulknife can do range, even aoe range; but as you've pointed out, doesn't really get good at it for awhile.



You're welcome!

I'm truly excited to see what new Blade Skills PsiEx will bring to the table. I don't think any will really push it to T3, but the right ones could really help with the core issues of the class (i.e. having to choose between mobility and psychic strike in most cases.)
Honestly I heart the soulbow it is just so cool and it made a specific build of soulknife decent. Still for the life of me I still can't see what they were afraid of when they made throwing knives so long in coming? Am I missing something and this is stronger than I think it is or is this some strange restriction that lingers on with no balance (or really fluff) basis?
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Psyren
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
Honestly I heart the soulbow it is just so cool and it made a specific build of soulknife decent. Still for the life of me I still can't see what they were afraid of when they made throwing knives so long in coming? Am I missing something and this is stronger than I think it is or is this some strange restriction that lingers on with no balance (or really fluff) basis?
Your best bet is to PM Bacris, as he designed the fix or wait for the Soulbolt, which I have no doubt will put the Soulbow to shame. (DSP is, for the most part, really good at what they do.)

Fluff basis I can actually somewhat see. The blade comes out of your mind, so sustaining it while it is not in contact with you should be pretty hard, like trying to read a book while it flies away from you. At least, that's how I'd see it. The blade always dissipates shortly after you let go, so clearly it must be actively maintained or at least be touching you in some way. "Throwing" one can't be easy, never mind several in succession.

Crunchwise, the Soulknife has an inherent advantage when it comes to thrown weapons - they can toss magic ones and not worry about them flying out the window, breaking etc. How many adventurers would toss their +5 dagger, let alone several in succession? 50,000gp per shot isn't cheap. How about a +5 shocking burst weapon?

In any event, it shouldn't be too hard to homebrew a feat that lets you ignore the level restrictions on Bladeskills, or let you take them earlier than normal; that would allow you to get Multiple Throw sooner.

Last edited by Psyren : 07-02-2011 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:50 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Update: Added Racial subs for the Kalashtar, Xeph and Half-Giant. Also added the two Mind's Eye ACFs, and rundowns on Soulknives from the four Eberron races. Next I will add feats from a variety of sources - PsU/XPH, CPsi, Hyperconscious, Untapped Potential, Dragon Magazine, Eberron books and any Faerun ones that occur to me.

I'm also kicking myself after reading Dragon 341 - the answer to the Soulknife knife-throwing conundrum was staring me in the face all this time. The Mind Daggers shape is designed to be the Soulknife's throwing weapon - it does little damage (1d4 medium) but can be formed unlimited times per round (allowing iteratives), has a full 30ft. range increment, and each pair formed carry the full enhancement bonus and assigned abilities of the standard blade. This lets you toss a barrage of, for example, Suppression daggers at a target, each of which would have a chance to dispel its protections.

You can go on to throw the regular blade once you get access to Multiple Throw at 14, but the daggers shape has no level floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
Always been a fan of the Soulknife despite its flaws and good to see a handbook spreading the word that you can do fun things with it. My only point of contention is with the use of Orange in ratings, as I keep thinking its Gold as in Awesome like in other guides, which throws me off when I read the description on how subpar it is. Maybe that's just me but I thought I'd point it out.
I've seen Orange = awesome in a couple of other guides too and it throws ME off. I've registered your objection but I still don't like Orange so bad it shall stay.

If it makes you feel better, I moved Purple (my favorite color) to "really really good." Well, it makes me feel better anyway

Last edited by Psyren : 07-11-2011 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Daernoth
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

I just created a 9th level soulknife/1st psy warrior that can do big damage like this...

1. half giant wielding a large twohander
2. half giant casts expansion so he is now wielding a huge twohander
3. +2 holy weapon
4. power attack
5. 4d8 psystrike... coz of bladeskill
6. improved critical feat
7. vital strike feat

so when he is large his damage to an evil creature is:
8d6(4d6 base dam*2 for vital strike) + 2d6 holy + 4d8 psychic strike + 20(12 from str*1.5 + 6 pw attack + 2 weapon enh)
with a crit range of 17-20(x2)

If I understand the rules correctly, his crit would do 12d6 + 2d6 + 4d8 + 40.

I also use the feat that removes the pw attack penalty for the first attack. If I'm fighting something with really high AC that I'm unlikely to hit with my second swing I'll just use a move action every round to recharge my psychic strike and just swing once per round.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Stone Heart
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: [3.P] Sharpening the Mind: A Guide to the Pathfinder Soulknife

Shouldn't Halflings be in the race section?

Also that build Daernoth put I kept trying out rolls for the crit and I did not get less than 100 damage for the crits, thats pretty awesome.
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Last edited by Stone Heart : 08-15-2011 at 06:25 PM.
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