I would just add that Sanguine Sword has a few more uses than that, namely AV14. It's just that little more certain for decking Land Raiders. It also goes at Initiative value, meaning that hopefully you can put a hurting on a MC for the Powerfist wielding Sarge to finish it off therefore speeding up the process of dealing with it.
Problem is that Sanguine Sword isn't nearly as useful as Shield or Unleash Rage. I understand that it's really good, but, it just isn't useful all the time like the others are.
That, and Mephiston is for all your Sanguine Sword needs.
Quote:
Shield of Sanguinius is really useful, as you said. Ok, smoke launchers give you +4, but as long as you have a Librarian, you can keep pulling it out wheras Smoke launchers only go once.
With Smoke Launchers you shouldn't really need to use them more than once. Usually you move after your Deployment into where you really want to be (if you deployed first and your opponent pulls a fast one during his deployment), pop smoke, and then it's Turn 2, where you should be in a decent position to do whatever you want.
Shield is useful for when you jump out of your Rhino and can't Assault, or, just being regular Jump Infantry and staying away from terrain (cover).
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With a Drop pod, [Death Company] are right where they need to be on turn 1 and with a Librarian present, you stand a chance of keeping them (Shield of Sanguinius is wonderful).
...Huh. Well, I've never thought about putting Death Company in a Drop Pod. Mostly because a unit of 9 with a Librarian is a non-multiple of 5, and a unit of 5+Librarian is just too scary a thought to put in my opponent's DZ. They're just not going to have backup, and/or they wont kill enough things to make it worth Suiciding them.
The other problem (that I see) with that, is that you're using Death Company as your first-turn drop. Y'know, instead of a Dreadnought or Honour Guard. Or just a regular Assault Squad with twin Meltaguns/Flamers.
Quote:
Generally speaking, if you want to hold down the number of Death Company in an army but want more Talon action (and who doesn't) then these boys are the way to go. They're a bit more fiddly as you can't fleet, but they also can't be manipulated through Rage.
Didn't I already say you should take as many Furiosos as you can? At least two in every single army, ever? And only upgrade (is it really?) to a Librarian Dread if you're not using one as your HQ.
Wow. I've never seen that before. But it's terrible.
1. Death Company Tycho isn't an Independent Character. He can't even join the squad he's supposed to be a part of. Drop him for a Librarian Dread.
2. The Priest does absolutely nothing for Death Company - as I pointed out earlier. The only thing it does is give Furious Charge to Astorath and the Chaplains. Feel No Pain they don't need because they're an Independent Characters, and that means they don't get shot at, and all their Wounds in Assault are dealt by Power Weapons. And Furious Charge isn't that important because if a Chaplain in a Death Company, he gets to re-roll To Wound as well. Drop the Priest.
3. Corbulo. Wow. A more expensive Priest to do nothing with. Excellent. Between the two Priests, you've nearly got yourself a Stormraven!
4. Why does the Chaplain have a Power Fist? My brain! I found points to fit a Stormraven!
5. Seven Death Company in a Rhino!? Not 5, not 10. Seven. Now, ordinarily, seven models in a unit is very cost-effective (it's a numbers thing). But, on Fearless units, it doesn't matter how many are in the unit, and Death Company specifically have bonuses at multiples of 5. More weapons and more Dreads. I think what annoys me most is the fact that there's no Power Fists.
6. The second squad of Death Company; Somebody never learned their Tactical Sergeant theory. Power Fist and Boltgun. That's how you roll. You're not getting the bonus attack anyway. Besides, Death Company are Relentless, there's no reason for them to not have Boltguns. I know, I know...It's a showcase army. It's supposed to be Themed. That doesn't mean it has to be bad. In fact, that's what I'm trying to prove!
...Incidentally, this squad is missing from the photo.
7. If you're taking Lemartes, you can drop one of the Chaplains since he is one. More free points! However, fun aside, In regards to Hand Flamers and other Pistols, Lemartes is a 'model' in the squad. But, for the purposes of buying DC Dreads, he is not a Death Company model. RAW is funny sometimes.
8. The fourth squad is utterly superfluous, they could be completely dropped for a Stormraven, or you can drop the Jump Packs and round out that squad of seven that you have.
I like this list. I really, really do. At least, I like the idea of the list. That's why I fully support it and wrote it into a Guide for Newbies because I want them to know about it. It's a really fun and effective list. What You Like == What Is Good! Hooray!
Unfortunately, I just know how to do it properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
IA:A II is a bit of a waste if you have or are planning on getting the other IA books as all but three or four of the units/formations in there are reprints.
I have as far back as Siege of Vraks, since I was told not to get IA-IV. But, I can get access to it. I also have WH40K-Apocalypse and Apocalypse Reload since they are readily available in a GW Store.
So, don't get IA Apocalypse books?
On a side-note, Zorg, I went to CT to see if you had any reviews on the older IA books, instead I found a Mass Effect team. I'm so jelly.
__________________ Steam Name: Cheesegear
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Originally Posted by Anuan
Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
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Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
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Originally Posted by MeatShield#236
ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia
Cheesegear is awesome
Last edited by Cheesegear : 08-03-2011 at 02:47 AM.
Problem is that Sanguine Sword isn't nearly as useful as Shield or Unleash Rage. I understand that it's really good, but, it just isn't useful all the time like the others are.
That, and Mephiston is for all your Sanguine Sword needs.
I want to like Mephiston, really I do, but he's 250 points and that's my third gunship.
Quote:
With Smoke Launchers you shouldn't really need to use them more than once. Usually you move after your Deployment into where you really want to be (if you deployed first and your opponent pulls a fast one during his deployment), pop smoke, and then it's Turn 2, where you should be in a decent position to do whatever you want.
Shield is useful for when you jump out of your Rhino and can't Assault, or, just being regular Jump Infantry and staying away from terrain (cover).
Absolutely true. I will grant that what I'm about to say is entirely situational and this is the only way it ever affects me. Stormravens, if you want to shoot all the guns, cannot pull this off. They have no smoke launchers, are huge models and are on flying stands. You can go fast, but that removes the ability to shoot most of the guns and get out. Shield of Sanguinius means you can go slow and shoot / get out and still have a chance of deflecting shots that are aimed at the squad, gunship or anyone else friendly within 6 inches. Situational and a single example, but it gives the gunship cover where normally there would be none.
Quote:
...Huh. Well, I've never thought about putting Death Company in a Drop Pod. Mostly because a unit of 9 with a Librarian is a non-multiple of 5, and a unit of 5+Librarian is just too scary a thought to put in my opponent's DZ. They're just not going to have backup, and/or they wont kill enough things to make it worth Suiciding them.
The other problem (that I see) with that, is that you're using Death Company as your first-turn drop. Y'know, instead of a Dreadnought or Honour Guard. Or just a regular Assault Squad with twin Meltaguns/Flamers.
I was experimenting that day and the Death Company was what was rolling with my Librarian (Dreadnoughts, scouts and gunships were the rest and nothing else was dropping and I wanted my psychic hood in my opponents DZ) and went not for the most expensive points targets but the ones that would do me the most good. With my opponant in a load of terrain, I could land unimpeded and hit him second turn. It was surprisingly effective and was the one move I can put my hand on my heart and say that it won me the game against what would appear to be my local areas equivalent of you, ie the man who has been playing for years, knows the codexes and most of the tricks inside out and is really difficult to beat. Of course, you know who the world's best swordsman fears, of course...
Quote:
Didn't I already say you should take as many Furiosos as you can? At least two in every single army, ever? And only upgrade (is it really?) to a Librarian Dread if you're not using one as your HQ.
I wasn't actually trying to disagree with you here. I was making a bit of a supplement to show that the splendid talons are completely available even without the Death Company. I've heard people declare that ordinary talon furiosos aren't as good as DC Dreads so I figured I'd run a little side by side comparison. Reading back, that wasn't too clear for which I apologise, but yeah, I wasn't saying you were wrong here, I was adding to it. If you're not taking more than 3 Sanguinary priests (which would, perhaps, be overkill) then the DN is one of the best ideas.
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They are? Because as far as I can tell, Reload is out of print; it's not even listed in the catalog or on their website.
For reals? My store has a couple.
__________________ Steam Name: Cheesegear
League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anuan
Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatShield#236
ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
For one, BA Vanguard are slightly cheaper which is good. And Descent of Angels means the Vanguard are more likely to show up when you need them and they wont fly halfway across the board where they can't use Heroic Intervention.
You've mentioned Vanguard using Descent of Angels before, and either you are sadly mistaken or my codex is misprinted. According to the codex I have, Vanguard Veterans get ATSKNF, Combat Squads, The Red Thirst, and Heroic Intervention, but NOT DoA. I've also checked the FAQ for Blood Angels, and did not find anything about it mentioned (though I could have missed it).
That being said, I'm well aware Vanguard can be devastating with lucky rolls and what-not. It's just, without DoA, you're relying on luck a little more than some people are comfortable with.
Yeah. I tried to order it through my gaming store several months ago, with no luck. When the store owner said there was no such book I was convinced he must have missed something and went to look myself, but no, it's not listed in their publications and doesn't appear in the 2010 Citadel catalog. I had to rely on a copy our opponent owned in my first Apocalypse game.
Were you in North America I'd totally ask if you'd grab me one if I mailed you a check for it plus the shipping, but I'm not about to jump for trans-Pacific shipping costs.
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You've mentioned Vanguard using Descent of Angels before, and either you are sadly mistaken or my codex is misprinted.
EDIT: Disregard.
__________________ Steam Name: Cheesegear
League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anuan
Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatShield#236
ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia
Cheesegear is awesome
Last edited by Cheesegear : 08-03-2011 at 09:30 AM.
Right, I take back nearly everything I've ever said about Blood Angels Vanguard. {...} Looks like DoA is mostly terrible. And you traded Combat Tactics for it, too.
And now I recall that I put them in the list (All DoA, Outflanking Baals, and a Librarian Dreadnought) I was going to play this weekend in the Trios tournament Mattarias mentioned previously. And it's past the deadline, so my choice is locked in. Craaaap....
Well, whatever! Too late to change it now, so I'll just have to make the best of it. I'm not strictly incompetent, and my scatter die seems to love me, so as long as I model my Vanguard to be total BAMFs, I shouldn't have any trouble, since as you said before, awesome models play better. If they and my Sanguinary Guard unit (which I'm using in my 'Ard Boyz list, unless I chicken out and fall back on sniper scouts, or something) come out nice, I'll make sure to post pictures. (I've said that before...I should probably actually do it this time.)
Read the Jump Pack rules. Any unit that equips a jump pack gains DoA. Vanguard don't start with it in their profile because they don't start with jump packs.
Read the Jump Pack rules. Any unit that equips a jump pack gains DoA. Vanguard don't start with it in their profile because they don't start with jump packs.
*Facepalm*
Thank you, Tren. You've saved us all. I knew Blood Angels couldn't screw themselves out of the best DoA unit in the 'dex.
__________________ Steam Name: Cheesegear
League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anuan
Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatShield#236
ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia
Cheesegear is awesome
Last edited by Cheesegear : 08-03-2011 at 09:32 AM.
I had no idea they were coming out with new sisters stuff, ugggh.
I've had an awful experience with Sisters, since I play Tyranids and the enemy just so happened to bring 2 exorcist tanks and a crap ton of flamethrower templates. Nothing but a group of Genestealers, my Trygon, and scattered bits of soldiers remained by turn 3. The exorcists one shotted my entire squad of warriors, instant deathing them all, and since they were my only Synapse creature in the game (Besides my Trygon Prime who was in reserves to deepstrike) so you can obviously guess how the rest of the game spiraled downwards from there. I managed to insta kill the exorcist tanks though on the turn my Trygon came, but he got stopped by a squad of sisters with cannoness who were getting faith points funneled into them to tie up combat.
Still, I'll look out for it so I know how to properly get around them.
Also I'm prepping to get into Apocolypse (And maybe try making an apocolypse game).
Ooohhh.. Ouch. Sorry to hear that. I don't fight 'nids much, but I can see how that list you fought can be pretty mean towards 'em. I've been running something similar.
New Sisters stuff, from what's been released so far, is... Eeehhh.. Let's just say I'm hesitant to call it a buff. I'm just hoping their wargear and stuff is sweet. (CELESTINE, Y YOU HAVE BS 7 AND NO WINGS OF FAITH?! )
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I have as far back as Siege of Vraks, since I was told not to get IA-IV. But, I can get access to it. I also have WH40K-Apocalypse and Apocalypse Reload since they are readily available in a GW Store.
So, don't get IA Apocalypse books?
On a side-note, Zorg, I went to CT to see if you had any reviews on the older IA books, instead I found a Mass Effect team. I'm so jelly.
IA: Apocalypse is good and has loads of unique stuff.
IA: Apoc 2 has loads of duplicates - mostly from the Vraks series and Armour of Gork (or possibly Mork).
If you're feeling like squinting a bit you can see the contents here.
IA4 has one of the best stories in any of the books (save Badab 1) IMO, so is great from that perspective, but rules wise it's superceded.
IA3 has the Tau stuff, but is weak story-wise.
I didn't review the older books as there's not as much in them to cover, rules have changed and they've all been out for a while.
Mentioning those minis reminds me I haven't uploaded pics of them finished yet - been too busy writing my game for them
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Wait, is she getting a regular heavy flamer, or a pyrovore heavy flamer launcher? That makes a huge difference. If it's just a heavy flamer, her BS is irrelevant. If she fires some kind of...scattering heavy flamer...thing, then it's really useful.
Yeah.. If anything, I hope she can at least throw that damn bird. You have no idea how much I detest that thing. Why is she holding a bird, of all things?! I mean, I know she's surrounded by them in her art, but.. Really? You're taking a random dove with you into battle?
I replaced mine with a shield. >>;
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Finally got to play a game of 40k this week! This game was with the gentleman who happened to wreck poor Renegade Paladin last week, as well as having scored a respectable second place at our most recent in-store tournament. I was looking forward to a tough match!
The game ended up being 2500 points of Space Wolves versus Ultramarines. I brought battle missions along to shake things up, but we ended up just going for a random mission out of the BRB. Table quarters, seize ground, 5 objectives.
Beardies vs. Baldies!
Spoiler
The Sons of Russ
Spoiler
270 - HQ - Wolf Lord Valkur - Thunderwolf Mount, Storm Shield, Wolf Claw, Runic Armor, 2x Fenrisian Wolves, Saga of the Warrior Born,
205 - HQ - Canis Wolfborn - 2x Fenrisian Wolves
275 - HQ - Logan Grimnar
155 - Elite - Iron Priest Sverrir, Thunderwolf Mount, 4x Cyberwolves
135 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard, 1x terminator w/cyclone
180 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard, 1x Terminator w/Assault Cannon, 2x combi-melta - Drop pod
305 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard , Arjac Rockfist, terminator w/Cyclone
260 - Fast - 4x Thunderwolf Cavalry - Storm Shield; Power Fist; Melta Bombs;
260 - Fast - 4x Thunderwolf Cavalry - Storm Shield; Power Fist; Melta Bombs;
170 - Heavy - Hagalaz - 3x Missile, 2x Lascannon
110 - Heavy - Tiewaz - 3x Missile, 1x Heavy bolter
175 - Heavy - Sunwolf Pack - 5x Multimeltas, Drop pod
Ultramarines:
Spoiler
HQ - Captain with boltgun, relic blade
HQ - Librarian in terminator armor (Null Zone, something else)
Elite - 5x Terminators, 2x lightning claws, 3x thunder hammer
- Land raider redeemer dedicated transport, with a multimelta
Elite - Dreadnought (multimelta, heavy flamer)
- Drop pod dedicated transport with deathwind missile launcher
Troops - 5x scouts with heavy bolter (whatever shoots those hellfire rounds)
Troops - 10x tactical marines, plasma cannon, meltagun
- Rhino dedicated transport
Troops - 10x tactical marines, plasma cannon, plasma gun
- Rhino dedicated transport
Troops - 10x tactical marines, lascannon, flamer
- Las/plas Razorback dedicated transport
Troops - 10x tactical marines, lascannon, flamer
- Las/plas razorback dedicated transport
Heavy - Vindicator with siege shield
Heavy - Vindicator with siege shield
Heavy - Vindicator with siege shield
There might have been another squad of tacticals in a razor or rhino, I don't recall exactly and I didn't get to take his list home with me after the game.
The game begins!
Spoiler
We throw our objectives down after rolling for first turn, because we're forgetful. He sets up a wall of AV13 and 14 on the 12" dead zone, ready to roll forward and drop tons of S10 and S6/AP3 on our balls. Long fangs deploy near a ruined building, good cover denying his heavy weapons LoS on them, but giving them vision on at least one vindicator. Thunderwolves deploy ready to charge into any part of my deployment zone, but still sitting in the back far enough away from the Vindicators so that they're out of reach. The CML wolf guard hop into some area terrain in my back quarter. Iron Priest Sverrir goes in reserve (cavalry + table quarters is insane). Logan hops in with the Sunwolves, Arjac tagging along, the Assault Cannon wolf guard also ready to drop. A few wolf guard break off to bulk up the long fang squads. Valkur joins the squad of cavalry closest to my board edge, Canis joins the thunderwolves parked near the 24" line.
He infiltrates his snipers into a ruins in the empty quarter closest to his board edge.
Turn 1:
The entire Ultramarine force rolls forward at maximum speed, smoke launchers all screening their approach. The dreadnought comes down, multimelta and flamer blazing--he melts a wolf guard, and fails to penetrate the armor of several long fangs. A few lascannons fire shots at the closest targets, cursing the abundance of cover, the snipers fail to wound Canis' thunderwolf squad.
My partner (this was a team game, partially to teach, partially cause then we can move it along faster). Gets quite excited, so I ask him where to drop the pod. There are three vindicators in a row, ready to fry long fangs and cavalry alike next turn, as well as a Redeemer spaced a little bit away from the vincidator. Suggesting we plop it down right in front of the vindicator wall, I waggle my finger and place it gently in the lane left open between a vindi and the redeemer, we choose to make Logan’s squad relentless this turn. Our opponent had been a little too eager in his advancement, and his vindicators were well within 18" of Valkur's wolves.
Canis breaks off from his thunderwolf squad, intending to barrel down on the scouts--ICs have move through covers when they're not in a squad, and It looks like it's juuuust about 20 inches to the closest scout. The thunderwolves move behind him, careful to stay out of coherency. One group of wolf guard trundle behind the dreadnought, ready to launch missiles into it's rear armor, the others hunker down in some terrain.
Shooting time! I ask my partner to hold off on his favorites for last (Logan & co.) while we see what needs wrecked first. A couple of CML shots later and the dreadnought is no more, taking a heavy bolter with it. With that threat neutralized, long fang squads launch lascannons and missiles into the advancing Vindicators, the smoke deflects a few would-be catastrophes, but in the end my partner's hot dice shake one and wreck another. Seems about right for 8 missiles and 2 lascannons, in retrospect. With the pressure on them seriously reduced, Logan's team unleashes 4 multimeltas into the landraider, and a multimelta + s10 hammer throw into the side armor of a nearby demolisher. The land raider explodes, while the vindicator loses it's main gun.
Moving onto our assault phase, The cavalry on our long board edge dash forward, slamming into the last functioning Vindicator, while Canis makes the full 12" into combat with the scouts. An immobilized result at I4 leaves the vindicator to be opened up like ale at the harvest feast when the S10 powerfist goes. Another exploded vehicle. The scouts barely even blink before they're cut down. Canis consolidates out of LoS of heavy weapons.
Turn 2:
Logan gives his squad preferred enemy. With not much to do, a few Rhinos zip forward to meet the unscathed thunderwolves on my side of the board, while the assault terminators trundle out of the wreckage of their transport. Through a null zone and light Heavy weapons fire a couple of fenrisian wolves and the Sunwolf pack's squad leader fall. We call our Great Wolf's bonus attacks, as the terminators prepare to crash into Arjac and the multimeltas. The captain slays a multimelta, while the Sons of Russ strike back at the claw-wielding terminators. Two terminators fall to the brutality of being locked in close combat with long fangs. Arjac and Logan clean the other three up, leaving only the captain for next turn.
Comfortable with our position, we roll for reserves. Iron Priest Sverrir trots onto the board, eyeing a rhino that had crept across the center line to harass the other cavalry riders, while our pod of more melta hangs back. A few heavy weapons rounds later, another rhino is wrecked and the drop pod explodes, taking the long fang sergeant with it. Wolves surge forward on every front; Sverrir explodes a razorback while Valkur's team surrounds a Rhino, exploding it in the process. No marines end up pinned, though some die as their transports pop.
Turn 3:
With 2 razorbacks and a few combat squadded tacticals scattered throughout his deployment zone being all that remains of his original force, the Ultramarine commander concedes the battle to the might of Russ. Awwooo.
Yeah.. If anything, I hope she can at least throw that damn bird. You have no idea how much I detest that thing. Why is she holding a bird, of all things?! I mean, I know she's surrounded by them in her art, but.. Really? You're taking a random dove with you into battle?
I replaced mine with a shield. >>;
Is it the Double Headed Aquila? If so then how is it bad?
Finally got to play a game of 40k this week! This game was with the gentleman who happened to wreck poor Renegade Paladin last week, as well as having scored a respectable second place at our most recent in-store tournament. I was looking forward to a tough match!
The game ended up being 2500 points of Space Wolves versus Ultramarines. I brought battle missions along to shake things up, but we ended up just going for a random mission out of the BRB. Table quarters, seize ground, 5 objectives.
Whining about overpowered Space Wolves the whole time too, I might add. I didn't pay attention for the whole game; did he try to lie about cover rules to you too?
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Last edited by Renegade Paladin : 08-04-2011 at 06:12 PM.
I know it is an upcoming Warhammer mini rather than 40K but I just noticed something amusing in latest WD and GW website. The alternate head at the top left of the Cairn Wraith picture
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
And now I recall that I put them in the list (All DoA, Outflanking Baals, and a Librarian Dreadnought) I was going to play this weekend in the Trios tournament Mattarias mentioned previously. And it's past the deadline, so my choice is locked in. Craaaap....
)
You have no idea how much I detest that thing. Why is she holding a bird, of all things?! I mean, I know she's surrounded by them in her art, but.. Really? You're taking a random dove with you into battle?
Thanks Kpenguin!
