Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[banjo1985]

Yeah I've seen that, it is very Necron-y isn't it? It's a nice model too, so if it fit in with whatever new snazzy stuff the Necrons get on their new release then I'd probably pick up some.

Yes, I'm assuming Necrons are going to be updated in the next 6 months.

[Mattarias, King.]

Originally Posted by evisiron

It's for grand entrances. It's likely she has seen this. (specifically around the 2:20ish mark)

Heheh, possibly.

Originally Posted by Craftworld

Is it the Double Headed Aquila? If so then how is it bad?

Nope. Just.. A dove. a glorified pigeon.


...Which reminds me, I really need to do a bit of converting to get my unworkable bricks ladies all WYSIWYG'ed up for tomorrow's tourney..

I'm fielding imagifiers! Why would I do that, you ask? FLAMER DOMINIONS! It's gonna be delicious barbeque alllll day.

[Tychris1]

Originally Posted by Mattarias, King.

Heheh, possibly.



Nope. Just.. A dove. a glorified pigeon.


...Which reminds me, I really need to do a bit of converting to get my unworkable bricks ladies all WYSIWYG'ed up for tomorrow's tourney..

I'm fielding imagifiers! Why would I do that, you ask? FLAMER DOMINIONS! It's gonna be delicious barbeque alllll day.

I'm slowly starting to hate your army more and more.

Also, maybe it's her pet? Is there any reason some commanders will bring Vutures to the battlefield when Vultures can't do anything? It's just cosmetic.

[BoSheck]

Originally Posted by Tychris1

Also, maybe it's her pet? Is there any reason some commanders will bring Vutures to the battlefield when Vultures can't do anything? It's just cosmetic.

It could do stuff! Like prevent infiltrators, and score d3 S3 hits at I5. Or some jazz. That'd be cool, right? Right?

[Tychris1]

A pidgeon that is as strong as an imperial guardsmen and hits faster then it?

Also, how would it stop infiltrators?

[Tome]

Originally Posted by Tychris1

A pidgeon that is as strong as an imperial guardsmen and hits faster then it?

Also, how would it stop infiltrators?

I believe he's referencing the various bird familiars that certain characters can use. In this case, Njal Stormcaller's Nightwing has the listed effects.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by BoSheck

It could do stuff! Like prevent infiltrators, and score d3 S3 hits at I5. Or some jazz. That'd be cool, right? Right?

She could give it to an enemy which then couldn´t attack this turn

[Ricky S]

Does anyone have any experience with running assault marines without their jump packs?

I want to start a new marine army with either drop pods or razorbacks and have it based around assault marines. So I'll probably just use the blood angels codex.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Ricky S

Does anyone have any experience with running assault marines without their jump packs?

Yes. It's called Black Templars. Space Wolves also works.

If you're set on Blood Angels (or are you really set on Razorspam? ), then you still take Stormravens. You can fit ten of them inside (and two ICs, hello Priest!), and the Stormraven has Assault Vehicle, which foot-Assault Squads need. Or use Land Raiders. Y'know. The -35 Points thing is pretty good.

The only other reason to play foot-Assault Squads is for Razorbacks. And at that point your army isn't based around Assault Marines, it's based around Razorbacks - which is totally different.

[Ricky S]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Yes. It's called Black Templars. Space Wolves also works.

If you're set on Blood Angels (or are you really set on Razorspam? ), then you still take Stormravens. You can fit ten of them inside (and two ICs, hello Priest!), and the Stormraven has Assault Vehicle, which foot-Assault Squads need. Or use Land Raiders. Y'know. The -35 Points thing is pretty good.

The only other reason to play foot-Assault Squads is for Razorbacks. And at that point your army isn't based around Assault Marines, it's based around Razorbacks - which is totally different.

I thought blood angels would be the best for a few reasons. You can take assault squads as troops, they have a chance of getting furious charge and and they have sanguinary priests so they are even harder to kill. I guess it would be a razor spam list but my intention was to take assault marines. Is there anything wrong with a razorspam list, I notice you have an angry face?

[Razaele]

Originally Posted by Ricky S

I thought blood angels would be the best for a few reasons. You can take assault squads as troops, they have a chance of getting furious charge and and they have sanguinary priests so they are even harder to kill. I guess it would be a razor spam list but my intention was to take assault marines. Is there anything wrong with a razorspam list, I notice you have an angry face?

I think the angry face is due to the fact that Cheesegear disapproves of Razorspam.

In my humble opinion, Razorspam is quite powerful. The problem with it is the fact that a lot of people bring Razorspam to the table, and it gets boring. Fast.

[Tarinaky]

I've forgotten the rules for firing from a transport. Can you not fire the Assault Marines twin Meltaguns out of a (Fast)Rhino after moving 12"?

I'd have thought of 2 meltaguns (for cheaper) as better than 3 Lasplas shots at the price.

[Tren]

Originally Posted by Tarinaky

I've forgotten the rules for firing from a transport. Can you not fire the Assault Marines twin Meltaguns out of a (Fast)Rhino after moving 12"?

No you cannot, being Fast lets the vehicle fire more of it's own weapons at Cruising Speed, but does nothing for the restriction on passengers firing.

[Tome]

Originally Posted by Ricky S

I thought blood angels would be the best for a few reasons. You can take assault squads as troops, they have a chance of getting furious charge and and they have sanguinary priests so they are even harder to kill. I guess it would be a razor spam list but my intention was to take assault marines. Is there anything wrong with a razorspam list, I notice you have an angry face?

As has been said, Razorspam is not fun to play against. Unless your metagame is pretty competitive, most folks aren't gonna want to play you in casual games.

That said, if what you want is lots of Marines on foot charging into close combat, Black Templars are the way to go.

[Tarinaky]

Originally Posted by Tome

That said, if what you want is lots of Marines on foot charging into close combat, Black Templars are the way to go.

I see no reason Blood Angels can't do it too - when you move the rhinos the full 18" and pop smoke the armament doesn't matter.

[gabado]

that's true, but templars have the combination of land raider crusaders and 10 man tactical squads outfitted with 6 meet shields. if you have a lot of money to spend templars are the way to go.

[Tarinaky]

I never liked Crusaders and the value of the Neonates is diminished immensely by the way 5e Wound Allocation works.

[gabado]

just a general question; what are people's opinions about using the storm raven for a codex marine army? fluff wise it makes just as much sense for codex marines to have it as it does for the blood angels. so i was wondering what the general gaming community thought about me running one in a space marine list?

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by gabado

just a general question; what are people's opinions about using the storm raven for a codex marine army? fluff wise it makes just as much sense for codex marines to have it as it does for the blood angels. so i was wondering what the general gaming community thought about me running one in a space marine list?

It isn't in the codex, therefore using one is against the rules.

[Trixie]

He can try to take Cestus Assault Ram, though, it has better chance being accepted than Storm Raven, IMHO.

[Ricky S]

I am building a 1000pts list purely for fluff and painting reasons. It's hardly going to be a tournament grade army. If I want to win games I will just play with my current space marine army.

-Captain, Power weapon

-Honour guard with flamers
Razorback, Storm Bolter

-Sanguinary Priest

-Assault Squad, Power Weapon
Razorback, Storm Bolter

-Assault Squad, Power weapon
Razorback, Storm Bolter

-Baal Predator, Storm Bolter

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Ricky S

I thought blood angels would be the best for a few reasons. You can take assault squads as troops

On foot, so can Black Templars and Space Wolves.

they have a chance of getting furious charge

Emphasis mine.
Space Wolves have Counter-Attack for free.
Black Templars run forwards when shot at. And most units will pay 3 points to get Furious Charge and then most of them will have some other sort of bonus. 6+ Invulnerable and Immune to Pinning is quite amazing for foot-slogging.

Is there anything wrong with a razorspam list, I notice you have an angry face?

Originally Posted by Razaele

I think the angry face is due to the fact that Cheesegear disapproves of Razorspam.

Honestly, Blood Angels Razorspam has ruined the meta-game. It is the 'Khorne Berzerker Rhino Rush' army of this edition (suddenly I feel old). When you go to a tournament, it's like going to the faire.
"You must be able to beat this list to play."

BA Razorspam is cheap to build (learn the Plasma Pistol + Boltgun = Plasmagun conversion, and then buy a pack of five meltagun bits from GW), and it's dirt cheap in points. Hell, it even works in 500 point games. And, the Law of Apocalypse fits nicely to the list; If it works in small amounts, it's broken in large amounts.

See, the thing that keeps Codex Marines from being broken is that Tactical Marines kind of suck and they don't have access to special weapons in five man squads. Space Wolves aren't broken because they don't get Sergeants (read; Power Fists attached to good models) unless you pay for them and their Razorbacks're expensive.

Blood Angels? All the upside. No downside. Broken. I understand that Matt Ward gets a lot of hate due to the fluff he writes. Honestly, I'm not too fussed with any of the rule-sets he's written thus far. Things have to get better, otherwise they just stay the same. And I've already played 3rd Ed for 10 years or so.

But, Blood Angels Razorspam exists. It is one of the single-hardest lists in the game. But, not only that, but, unlike Infantry Guard, it's cheap. So that makes it common. And that makes it a pain in the arse and destroys the meta-game because nobody will play anything but BA Razorspam, and this is why I hate The Internet.

It also doesn't help that Codex Marines and Space Wolves also do Razorspam their own way, and after a while, regardless of colour, you just feel like you're playing the same army over and over and over and over and over again? Did I mention how Razorspam ruined the meta-game?

Still, at Club, I can usually get between 2-6 games in as long as it isn't a tournament time or Necromunda Night or something (keep in mind that I never play over 1750 except for very special occaisions). If I bring a Razorspam army, I will play one game for the whole afternoon and night, and nobody will play me again.

Originally Posted by Tarinaky

I never liked Crusaders and the value of the Neonates is diminished immensely by the way 5e Wound Allocation works.

Err...Neophytes are better with Wound Allocation. When you get into combat, all the Neophytes should be dead, leaving you only with Crusaders in combat who ran forwards because all the chumps got killed.

Let's say you shoot two Plasmagun shots and a Lascannon at a Crusader squad; All the Plasmagun hits and Lascannon wounds are dealt to the Neophytes. And your Crusaders and whatever's left of the Neophytes take Bolter-rounds to the chest, and then all the good models that're left run forwards.

How is this bad?

Originally Posted by gabado

just a general question; what are people's opinions about using the storm raven for a codex marine army?

No.
You can just play Blood Angels anyway. The problem with Codex Marines, is that you've suddenly got Riflemen Dreads in Elites and Stormravens in Heavy Support, which is specifically what the BA 'dex avoids. Or you can have Thunderfires and Stormravens in the same list, etc.
No.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Ricky S

I am building a 1000pts list purely for fluff and painting reasons. It's hardly going to be a tournament grade army. If I want to win games I will just play with my current space marine army.

-Captain, Power weapon

-Honour guard with flamers
Razorback, Storm Bolter

-Sanguinary Priest

-Assault Squad, Power Weapon
Razorback, Storm Bolter

-Assault Squad, Power weapon
Razorback, Storm Bolter

-Baal Predator, Storm Bolter

I think you need a chaptermaster in order to get honour guard.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Ninjaman

I think you need a chaptermaster in order to get honour guard.

Blood Angels are super special awesome. 'Honour Guard' means 'Command Squad' and 'Sanguinary Guard' means 'Honour Guard'. Confused? Why? It's so obvious!

[evisiron]

Back from another ranked tournament, with mixed results.

It was 1750, with a Primary objective (normal rules) and secondary objective (second 'mission' played for 1/2 points). I brought my "eh, play with the fun units" 3 Battlewagon list with Ghazzy and Snikrot.

Short version:

Spoiler

Round 1: Beat necrons, but no phase out
Round 2: Tabled Grey Knight razorback spam
Round 3: Drew Grey Knights purifier razorback spam
End of day one. I am second on leader board behind Kan Wall Orks.
Round 4: My nemesis, Kan wall Orks. I am defeated. (He goes on to win the tournament. The same guy beat me in the last ranked tournament, and went on to win that one too)
Round 5: Deathwing terminator and vindicator list beats me
I finish in 9th place.

My thoughts:

Spoiler

-Snikrot is so much fun! He was handed Ghazzy in most games and they didn't disappoint. The threat of him had Round 2 GK player try putting everything in reserve, and that alone had me half way to victory.
It works so well against Razor-spam lists, as 10 boys from the back and 36 from the front can block off those exits, and one wrecked murders the contents neatly.
-Grey knights are already boring. 7 of 24 players there were GK, and the lists all looked about 80% the same, all razors and rifleman dreads.
-No one at a tournament seems to be prepared to beat 120 orks behind 9 Kans, all with KFF cover, supported by 3 units of lootas when used by a player as proficient as him. I cannot think of how to beat that list without ruining the force's chances against other armies.
-Primary and secondary objectives is an AWESOME idea. It's balanced, breaks the monotony of capture and control, and even if you are losing there is still a way to get some victory points.

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by evisiron

My thoughts:

Spoiler

-Snikrot is so much fun! He was handed Ghazzy in most games and they didn't disappoint. The threat of him had Round 2 GK player try putting everything in reserve, and that alone had me half way to victory.
It works so well against Razor-spam lists, as 10 boys from the back and 36 from the front can block off those exits, and one wrecked murders the contents neatly.
-Grey knights are already boring. 7 of 24 players there were GK, and the lists all looked about 80% the same, all razors and rifleman dreads.
-No one at a tournament seems to be prepared to beat 120 orks behind 9 Kans, all with KFF cover, supported by 3 units of lootas when used by a player as proficient as him. I cannot think of how to beat that list without ruining the force's chances against other armies.
-Primary and secondary objectives is an AWESOME idea. It's balanced, breaks the monotony of capture and control, and even if you are losing there is still a way to get some victory points.

Sounds like it was fun. And yes, the Kan wall KFF and Loota list is a real beast. I can't think of a way to deal with it beyond Frag Cannon, Heavy flamer Drop pod Furioso to kill the lootas before they kill my Gunships and even then, the 4+ cover save on the rapidly advancing Kans isn't going to go away. It doesn't help that the owner of said orks is the spawniest person alive with his cover save rolls. May take (shock horror) some vanguard next time I play against this list and go DoA, it's something I've been meaning to try for a while.

[Craftworld]

Originally Posted by evisiron

Back from another ranked tournament, with mixed results.

It was 1750, with a Primary objective (normal rules) and secondary objective (second 'mission' played for 1/2 points). I brought my "eh, play with the fun units" 3 Battlewagon list with Ghazzy and Snikrot.

Short version:

Spoiler

Round 1: Beat necrons, but no phase out
Round 2: Tabled Grey Knight razorback spam
Round 3: Drew Grey Knights purifier razorback spam
End of day one. I am second on leader board behind Kan Wall Orks.
Round 4: My nemesis, Kan wall Orks. I am defeated. (He goes on to win the tournament. The same guy beat me in the last ranked tournament, and went on to win that one too)
Round 5: Deathwing terminator and vindicator list beats me
I finish in 9th place.

My thoughts:

Spoiler

-Snikrot is so much fun! He was handed Ghazzy in most games and they didn't disappoint. The threat of him had Round 2 GK player try putting everything in reserve, and that alone had me half way to victory.
It works so well against Razor-spam lists, as 10 boys from the back and 36 from the front can block off those exits, and one wrecked murders the contents neatly.
-Grey knights are already boring. 7 of 24 players there were GK, and the lists all looked about 80% the same, all razors and rifleman dreads.
-No one at a tournament seems to be prepared to beat 120 orks behind 9 Kans, all with KFF cover, supported by 3 units of lootas when used by a player as proficient as him. I cannot think of how to beat that list without ruining the force's chances against other armies.
-Primary and secondary objectives is an AWESOME idea. It's balanced, breaks the monotony of capture and control, and even if you are losing there is still a way to get some victory points.

I'm happy that I play where I play. I never see any of these cookie cutter lists...wait...nope, never...just guys that know how to play their armies and win without being broken.

[Zorg]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Honestly, Blood Angels Razorspam has ruined the meta-game.

My thoughts on Rasorspam:

Spoiler

I like small tanks and I cannot lie,
You other brothers can't deny,
That when a girl walks in with an Battlefoam Case,
And a Razor list in your face,
You get sprung!

Wanna pull out? Tough!
'Cause you notice that 'back was stuffed,
Assault meltas and a Priest it’s bearing,
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring.
Oh baby, I wanna play you,
And something so new,
My clubmates tried to warn me,
But that ‘back you got makes m-m-m-me so horny

Ooh, she’s Raz-o'-back-in,
You say you wanna Pitch Deploy?
Well, Annihilate me, Annihilate me,
'Cause you ain't that average groupie.
I've seen them glancin’,
To hell with lancin’,
She's sweat, wet,
Got it goin' like a Melta 'Vet.

I'm tired of magazines,
Sayin' fluff-bunnies are the thing,
Take the average blog man and ask him that -
She gotta pack Razorbacks!

So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!)
Has your girlfriend got the ‘back? (Hell yeah!)
Tell 'em to spam it! (Spam it!) Spam it! (Spam it!)
Spam that MSU ‘back!
Baby got ‘backs!

(Demon paint on an ‘ard Boyz booty)
Baby got ‘backs!

I like 'em small, and on wheels,
And when I'm clubbing a seal,
I just can't help myself, I'm actin' like an animal
Now here's my scandal:
I wanna get you home
And ugh, double-up, ugh, ugh
I ain't talkin' bout Comp Score,
'Cause playin’ nice is such a bore,

I want lists tuned, tricked-out and nasty,
So bring that Leaf Blower,
Mix-a-Lot'll knock it over,
Gunnin’ for a place at that top table.
So I'm lookin' at bat-rep videos
Fluff-bunny carebares playin’ like schmoes,
You can have them newbies,
I'll keep my opponents like Kirby,

A word to the WAAC soul players, I wanna get with ya
I won't cuss or hit ya,
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna *win* -
It’s the way I was born.
‘backs got it goin' on,
A lot of wimps won't like this song,
'Cause them punks like to hit it and quit it,
And I'd rather stay and play,
'Cause I'm long, and I'm strong,
And I'm down to get the RazorSpam on!

So, ladies! {Yeah!} Ladies! {Yeah}
If you wanna roll in my Mercedes? {Yeah!}
Then turn around! Stick it out!
Even Jervis has to shout
Baby got ‘backs!

Baby got ‘backs!
Yeah, baby ... when it comes to army lists, White Dwarf ain't got nothin',
to do with my selection. Vanilla Captain? Ha ha, only if he’s on a bike.

So your girlfriend rolls a Rhino, lovin’ to not move and fire from,
But Rhinos sitting still are just time bombs,
My army list don't want none,
Unless you've got guns, hun,
You can do Storm Ravens or Dreadnoughts,
But please don't lose that ‘back.
Some brothers wanna play that "comp" role,
And tell you that the ‘back ain't gold,
So they toss it and leave it,
And I pull up quick to retrieve it.

So BoLS says Sisters 're back,
Well I ain't down with that!
'Cause the ‘dex is small and Faith is stinkin’
But I'm still thinkin' bout switchin’,

To the metal dames in that magazine:
You ain't it, Miss Thing!
Give me plastic, I can't resist it,
Lead and FineCast just miss it!
Some knucklehead tried to dis,
'Cause melta-spam girls are on my list,
He had game but he chose to nerf 'em,
And I roll up quick and table 'im.

So ladies, if the ‘back is around,
And you want a hardcore throw down,
Dial 1-900-MIXALOT
And bring them nasty thoughts
Baby got 'BACKS!

[Incomp]

Originally Posted by Zorg

And when I'm clubbing a seal,

...

...

[Tychris1]

My thoughts exactly incomp. Why are you beating up a seal? Of all things a seal? That's just cruel and jerkish.

Also what's so good about Razorbacks?