"Snips, Snails, & Dragon Tales" Discussion - Poll + Unmarked Spoilers

[The Giant]

This is an all-purpose thread for discussion of the content of Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. It is intended for people who already have the book and have read it; as a result, you do not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

If you want to discuss the shipping or arrival of the book, continue to use this thread for the time being.

In addition to the general discussion, I am gathering data regarding what people thought of the book's content, particularly in regard to which sections you thought were good enough to support an entire book sometime in the future. While the poll allows you to choose as many responses as you like, I would ask that people choose no more than three responses; otherwise, the data will not be as useful as it could be.

Keep in mind that this poll will be non-binding, as I may choose to do products that don't necessarily "win" the poll. Also, try to ignore the difficulties in pre-ordering when answering; assume that by the time I announce the book, it's already sitting in a warehouse printed.

PLEASE ONLY VOTE IF YOU HAVE READ SNIPS, SNAILS, AND DRAGON TALES!

EDIT: Poll has been edited to remove the "Prequel" option, as I felt people were always going to vote that rather than give me a fair judgment of their favorite parts of the book. Also, killed the "Unlikely to buy anything" option, because they can simply not vote.

[Mutant Sheep]

Originally Posted by The Giant

This is an all-purpose thread for discussion of the content of Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. It is intended for people who already have the book and have read it; as a result, you do not need to mark spoilers in this thread.

If you want to discuss the shipping or arrival of the book, continue to use this thread for the time being.

In addition to the general discussion, I am gathering data regarding what people thought of the book's content, particularly in regard to which sections you thought were good enough to support an entire book sometime in the future. While the poll allows you to choose as many responses as you like, I would ask that people choose no more than three responses; otherwise, the data will not be as useful as it could be.

Yay spoiler thread! Soon Elan and the Beanstalk shall be examined so thoughly any hints will be discovered and seen, then incredibly over analysed! This is a great day for the world! So was yesterday I guess...
I think the Mummy Queen and the rest of Julio Scoundrel could be a book, because its Julio Scoundrel! Wait, not supposed to say it yet and wait for you to set up poll., Oh, there's the poll, top of page *facepalm*

[The Giant]

Per requests on the other thread, here is the bowdlerized version of the panel from #358. This is what actually ran in the magazine, as opposed to the version in the book, which is what was rejected. As you can see, it's not especially funny.

[Mutant Sheep]

Originally Posted by The Giant

Per requests on the other thread, here is the bowdlerized version of the panel from #358. This is what actually ran in the magazine, as opposed to the version in the book, which is what was rejected. As you can see, it's not especially funny.

But it's Mr. Potato Head. He IS funny. He is Funny incarnate. It is funnier with words though.It is supposed to be Mr. Potato head right? or am I blind to the reference?

[trebledawson]

I simply HAD to register, specifically to write the following sentence:

The Order of the Stick interpretation of Hamlet was quite possibly the most amazing thing I have ever read, ever. And I've read House of Leaves.

[Zevox]

Mine arrived this afternoon, and I've already read through it.

I loved the "Invaders from the Fourth Dimension" story. Even having never played 4e or read any of its rules, seeing the two editions clash was very amusing, and just having read a few edition arguments online enabled me to get some of the jokes about 4e itself, plus of course some were self-explanatory (all their abilities being short-range, for instance, or 4e Roy abusing his ability to make others do things on his turn).

However, to address the poll, as a result of that very lack of familiarity with 4e, I'd be unlikely to buy a book centered around the 4e Order. It was the clash between them and their 3.5e counterparts that fueled my enjoyment of that story the most, not the 4e jokes alone.

I also greatly enjoyed the "Stick Tales" section. "Greenhilt: Prince of Denmark" was my favorite part of the entire book, and easily the one that elicited the most laughs out of me (which is a bit surprising, since I've never seen/read Hamlet, but I guess I know enough of it from other things referencing it to get most of the parodies anyway, and of course all the jokes that don't require knowledge of the original). "Elan and the Beanstalk" was pretty good too. The other two a little less so, though I think in "Goldenleaf's" case its brevity is as much responsible for that as anything - hard to get as many laughs as the others when the story is only two and a half pages. But that's not to say I didn't like them either, as I definitely did.

Anyway, for those, I would buy a book of stories of that sort.

The Dragon Magazine stuff was amusing, in the way the Dungeon Crawlin' Fools era strips were. Not much to say there, though I fear the fact that I never read the magazine and am not really familiar with its history caused some of the jokes of the final few strips to be lost on me (for instance, I didn't get the joke of the uncensored version of that Mr. Potato Head panel at all).

The Julio Scoundrel stuff... eh. I found myself mostly happy that it was short. Not that it was bad, but it didn't entertain me the way the other parts did. Wouldn't buy a book based on that I'm afraid.

Random observation: in black and white, Lien and short-hair Haley are nearly indistinguishable when not in outfits they usually wear. I thought Haley was the girl in "Goldenleaf" for the couple of panels before Lien identified herself by name.

Zevox

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by Zevox

(for instance, I didn't get the joke of the uncensored version of that Mr. Potato Head panel at all).

Appropriate references: Superman II and Peter Adkison.

Explained-until-the-humor-is-gone-version:

Spoiler

In Superman II, evil General Zod's most famous line is, "Kneel before Zod, son of Jor-El!" demanding that Superman kneel before him in allegiance. Since WOTC was founded by Adkison, or "Adki's Son," the potato, or Spud, is commanding him to kneel before him, satirizing Hasbro's subjugation of the previously independent WOTC. And yes, it isn't funny at all if one didn't recognize that the moment it was seen.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by The Giant

Appropriate references: Superman II and Peter Adkison.

Explained-until-the-humor-is-gone-version:

Spoiler

In Superman II, evil General Zod's most famous line is, "Kneel before Zod, son of Jor-El!" demanding that Superman kneel before him in allegiance. Since WOTC was founded by Adkison, or "Adki's Son," the potato, or Spud, is commanding him to kneel before him, satirizing Hasbro's subjugation of the previously independent WOTC. And yes, it isn't funny at all if one didn't recognize that the moment it was seen.

Yeah, lack of familiarity with any of that would be why I didn't get the joke I'm afraid. Oh well, there was plenty of great stuff I did enjoy anyway.

Zevox

[Asarlai]

Several are appealing, but gotta go for Mr. Julio Scoundrél.

[Katana_Geldar]

Giant, I have to say now there's only one book that has my vote: a prequel book on the Linear Guild.

[DreadArchon]

Thank you for the Potato-Head joke explanation, I didn't get it either.

Poll:
I wouldn't buy much of the 4th Dimension stuff, but I answered that and "prequel." If I could change my answer I'd add Sticktales. But actually, I would like to see something with one-off joke strips that don't fit the main story (like the Dragon strips) if you ever build up a stock of ideas. (I might go for books of the main OOTS cast illustrated like the art page at the end of the Scoundrel story, though!)


Book Spoilers:
Wow this was an awesome book.

The back cover was the first thing I read, and it was funnier than I was expecting. That was a good start.

The snail motif on the covers is fun. I hope that guy shows up in the main comic someday. Also, I predict him to be one of the "sides" that is after the Gates...

The joke on the copyright page is cute.

The Scoundrel story was my least favorite part of the book, but I didn't hate it. And hey, it all got better from there! Rock on!

"In the Realm of the Dragon" was pretty funny.

I greatly enjoyed about 2/3 of the Dragon strips and bonuses (the rest were just OK), especially Psteve! I laughed to the point of pain a few times in this section and completely forgot the Scoundrel chapter existed until I came to the forums.

Edition Wars has a limited scope, but this chapter is even better than the previous at some points. The Commander's Strike jokes are worth the cost of the book by themselves. And of course, there is the Zombie Hooker page, and Edward Cullen fighting 2 Durkons.

The Sticktales are less consistent, but fun overall. I do like that there is a lot of potential for future material of that sort.

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by Katana_Geldar

Giant, I have to say now there's only one book that has my vote: a prequel book on the Linear Guild.

Actually, I think I am going to remove the prequel option, as it is muddying the intent of the poll. The goal here is to determine what parts of the book people liked the best, not for people to choose my next product.

The chances of additional prequels are very high, but there are issues of timing that prevent certain backstories from being told before specific facts have been revealed in the online comic. Therefore, publishing another type of book first will not actually affect whether I publish additional prequels or not.

Also, please: Do not vote in the poll if you have not read Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales. That defeats the point of asking which part you liked enough to buy again.

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by DreadArchon

But actually, I would like to see something with one-off joke strips that don't fit the main story (like the Dragon strips) if you ever build up a stock of ideas.

This isn't in the poll because it's simply not going to happen. As I indicated in the commentary, coming up with random unconnected gaming jokes page after page was harder for me than writing a story, and I have no interest in trying to crank out an entire book of that.

[NerfTW]

Originally Posted by Mutant Sheep

But it's Mr. Potato Head. He IS funny. He is Funny incarnate. It is funnier with words though.It is supposed to be Mr. Potato head right? or am I blind to the reference?

And since some people might not get the full joke, Mr. Potato Head is a Hasbro product.

[Anarion]

Just got mine last night. It was awesome

For the poll, I picked that I would buy anything that the Giant releases, but I'll go on record as stating that Stick Tales was the best part of the book for me. Hamlet in particular was done spectacularly, and I burst out laughing when I saw the flumphs as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. That was also a neat trick to prevent resurrection at the end, as I was sure leading up to it that the Giant was going to subvert the ending by reviving everyone.

The Julio Scoundrel section really impressed me artistically. After reading the Giant's commentary, I went back through and just looked at the panel layout without reading any dialogue to see how the Giant was trying to set it up, and I think it worked out mostly very well. My one comment there was that I think the discussions on the airship could have benefited from action going on in the background. For example, while Julio was discussing jumping down to the pyramid, there could have been multiple crew members fighting the horuses (horusi?) all over the ship.

Also (and I'm sure you can see by my avatar that I'm a bit biased) I WANT A DUSKPONY!

[tmacdevitt]

Thank you for explaining Hamlet to me. I was always to intimidated to dive into due to its length.

The stick tales are like a cross between fractured fairy tales and Marvel presents. It's a winner as a stand alone.

[MoonCat]

First off, brava, this was excellent, I'm incredibly happy to see the book out, and it is spectacular.

Julio was interesting as a parody of comic books, but I wouldn't be interested in seeing more of it, as a parody of the same thing again seems a risk to just rehash some of the genuinely amusing jokes in this one.

The Giant's sketch art interested me, I've only ever seen it in Five Foot Steps and Nale and Thog's drawing, so I thought that was cool. Nothing else to say really.

Realm of The Dragon was very funny, especially since I recognized them from before. I actually quite like the black and white single strip versions with NPC characters, this and the dirt farmers was great.

Dragon Tales, highlight of the book, I loved them dearly (not just because the color made it very easy to read, which is a blessing with my bad eyesight). Even if many jokes I didn't understand because of my being an utter DnD newb, and the only game I've ever played being 4e at that. I loved the occasional references to the webcomic (you're invisible!), and enjoyed that the strips were really about showing their personality instead of plot (which I'd hate online, but getting to see more interactions and conversations in book format where I don't have to wait, a whole strip devoted to it is quite nice).The ending was sweet, even if I couldn't figure out any of the references except for WoTC. Thanks for supplying the alternate panels by the way!

Invaders from The Fourth Edition Dimension, that was allright. In a book of snips and such it was nice, even if I really had no idea what was going on part of the time (it was really game based, so I got lost a bit), but a whole book devoted to them seems like a waste of your time and work. I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in a black and white strip in a compilation (like the dirt farmers or the Dragon Empire) though. Best part of that section was the panel where they destroyed the other games, I laughed long and hard at the idea of playing some dreadful first person shooter and having Belkar pop up with two blades about to stab me, and felt utter empathy for the poor chessplayer who had TWO Elans singing encouragement to him (Roys probably told Elans that they needed to help him win the game to achieve the proper effect). That was great, excellent game choices there Giant.

StickTales I loved, especially Greenhilt, although I truly loved Goldenleaf as well. Good choices in parodies and story tellers (imagine a story by V guys. I think I'd fall in love.) What is expecially awesome is that it technically counts as part of the continuity (which means that on Read-OoTS-Cover-To-Cover-With-Only-Half-An-Hour-On-The-Computer-Necessary-Day (anniversary of when I started reading OoTS) I get to include part of this book! Yays!)

I liked this book a lot, enjoyed most of it, definitely support doing more with some of them if you run out of words on the commentary pages, great book. Well worth the wait and cost.

Just some other stuff, liked the list of what was and wasn't in the book, the constant Jones and Rodriguez appearances, the Forewoard by Xykon, and I think the first time I've seen a drawing of the Giant smiling.

-MoonCat

[Shott]

I was very impressed with the book. I especially enjoyed the 4th Edition and Stick Tales. It was nice seeing some non-canon strips that still flowed as a story.

[DreadArchon]

Originally Posted by MoonCat

Julio was interesting as a parody of comic books, but I wouldn't be interested in seeing more of it, as a parody of the same thing again seems a risk to just rehash some of the genuinely amusing jokes in this one.

This sums up my thoughts on the Julio comic more clearly than I did.

Realm of The Dragon was very funny, especially since I recognized them from before.

Ooh, thanks, I missed that!

I wouldn't mind seeing them show up in a black and white strip in a compilation (like the dirt farmers or the Dragon Empire) though.

I second this. This would be the best way to handle them now that they exist, I think.

[ss49]

Well, I'll vote when I finish, but I love the shoutout to "What's New with Phil and Dixie"!

ETA: And, of course, the later nod to more of the back page denizens, although I only recognized Fin and Wormy. I still have a few of those ooooold Dragons....

[AgentofOdd]

Got the book around 7 hours ago, and just finished reading it.

Have to say, I'd definitely prefer to have another anthology. That way one gets a little bit of everything. A story following the 4th edition OotS would also be nice, as long as it isn't a simple retelling of the webcomic with a 4E twist. And last, but not least, more tales from the public domain would also be cool.

[DreadPirateDB]

Originally Posted by trebledawson

I simply HAD to register, specifically to write the following sentence:

The Order of the Stick interpretation of Hamlet was quite possibly the most amazing thing I have ever read, ever. And I've read House of Leaves.

I agree that was brilliant! I loved all the bit characters getting cameos, and Xykon Xlaudius getting killed by Norwegians.

[Velaryon]

I got the book yesterday and immediately read all the way through it. There was not a single thing between the front and back cover that I didn't enjoy.

I thought the Julio Scoundrél story was fun, and I enjoy the pulp-fiction feel of the story. I don't think it's as good as the main strip of course, but I would buy further Scoundrél stories.

The Dragon strips were pretty cool, though I am also one of those people who needed the joke in #358 explained to me. I caught the Zod reference and figured that Mr. Potato Head was representative of Hasbro, but I didn't know who Adkison was so that part went right over my head. Now that I get it, it's much funnier than the version that ran in the magazine (thanks for sharing the print version of the panel though, Giant!)

My favorites of the dragon strips are actually the bonus strips, like Psteve and Read It and Weep. #356 also cracked me up.

Invaders From the Fourth Dimension was awesome, and contains some of my favorite moments in the entire book. However, like Zevox, I would be far less interested in the further adventures of the 4e versions of the OOTS. I wouldn't get most of the system-related jokes, and while I might read it anyway, it wouldn't be the same for me.

Stick Tales was also excellent, though I was surprised to find myself agreeing with most of Belkar's objections to the others' stories. I wish this section had been longer, and would definitely like to see more of these. I'd prefer another collection of briefer story adaptations over a longer story, but both would, I'm sure, be excellent.

As to the poll, here are the three things I voted for, arranged in order of my preference:

1. Another anthology like this one, with various unrelated stuff
2. Further StickTales, either as a collection of stories or a longer adaptation
3. A collection of Julio Scoundrél comic book tales

Overall, I definitely enjoyed this book. I feel that it's the best money I've spent on OOTS since Start of Darkness (though I really do love my Zombies T-shirt).

[DreadArchon]

Maybe we could combine items and have Sticktales in the Julio Scoundrel art style and/or sketchy art style.

I just think it'd be cool to have official representations of existing characters in modified art forms, rather than random new characters or a very limited selection of existing side characters.

[Skavensrule]

For the record I would almost certanly purchase ANY OoTS book released but of the choices offered I enjoyed the "Stick Tales" the best so thats what I voted for. I didn't realize I could vote for more than one choice at the time, but I am still sticking with that answer.

I have been wanting to find out what happened in most of the dragon strips for years, particularly since #475 mentioned a strip from Dragon that I had missed. I had issue 358 of Dragon that I had dug out and reread while waiting for the book to arrive last week so I recognized the changed panel right away and I like the uncensored version way better even though I didn't know who Adkison was until I read the extended explanation, I did catch the Superman II referance. So Thank you Rich for allowing those of us who missed some/most/all of these wonderful strips to relive the carefree days of the early Order.

Julio Scroundrel: I liked the story as a one-shot but would not miss never seeing him again as a main character. Loved the hand-drawn examples but would much rather have a longer story in future books than the more intensive art style. There used to be some links to some art by Rich that was in a realistic style in a thread but those links don't work anymore.

Fourth Edition Dimension: Loved the story and the jokes even though I have never played 4th ED (never played 2nd ED either) Like Zevox has said it is real easy to catch on to most of the jokes even if some are surely going over my head. But like the Julio story this is best as a one-shot.

Stick Tales: I can't say the number of ways I enjoyed these strips. My only regret is that there are not more of them.
Now to reread the book again.

And Thank you Rich! You wonderful Giant.

[tmacdevitt]

I would like to mention that the art differences in Scoundrel were subtle, but nice. Any chance of seeing thicker limbs and drop shadows in the strip?

[ss49]

More Julio Scoundrél? Sure, as long as it isn't too icky (sex with that mummy, bleah!)

4th Edition? Maybe, but the story presented made fun of 4E repetitiveness. I'm sure RB could write them well, but I don't want it to detract from the current story. (Maybe as OOTS Book 2.)

StickTales? Sure. Longer ones, too.

Anthology? Best of all worlds. Would've voted twice for it if I could. (Hush)

Non-OOTS- Big possibilities. Least known. But I'm open to this.

No to the last. I didn't think it was a serious choice, but the poll results surprised me.

[The Giant]

Originally Posted by tmacdevitt

I would like to mention that the art differences in Scoundrel were subtle, but nice. Any chance of seeing thicker limbs and drop shadows in the strip?

Not likely. The art style on Julio took about 2-3 times longer per page, and that was in black & white. Creating the shading in color would be even more time-consuming. I would only consider it for a project like this, where I finished the art for it before anyone knew the book even existed.

[pendell]

Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa.

I voted in the poll BEFORE I read the Giant's strongly worded request to wait until the book has actually arrived.

Is there any way to cancel or undo the vote?

I will now proceed to say 5 Our Thors, and 4 Hail Tiamats in penance ...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ted The Bug]

Quick question: Are the Dragon strips the only strips in colour, or are some of the other bonuses colour as well?