D&D 3e/3.5e/d20The forum for conversations specifically related to the rules and procedures of Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition, 3.5 Edition, or any fantasy game using the d20 system or a variant thereof (commercially published or not).
Does Pathfinder have an equivalent to Zen Archery? (Or can you just take Zen Archery? It's supposed to be backwards compatible with 3.5? Right?) If so, you could buy a Monk's Belt and magic bracers and be Wis SAD for most of your progression.
Even if you could get Wis-To-Hit, you'd still want a decent Dex score to qualify for feats.
Although, if you can get your DM to rule that Zen Archer Monk can use Wis-To-Hit with Firearms, then you could get away with as low as 13 Dex, taking all the High Dex Req feats with the Monk's Bonus feats.
Also, Cieyrin, you may want to mention (probably in the Stats section) that a Gunslinger with 7 (or less) Wis still has the same size Grit pool as a 'Slinger with 13 Wis.
And that a 'Slinger with low Wis and the Extra Grit Feat has as much Grit as a 'Slinger with 16 Dex. So a Low(er)-Wis build is an option.
Also, Cieyrin, you may want to mention (probably in the Stats section) that a Gunslinger with 7 (or less) Wis still has the same size Grit pool as a 'Slinger with 13 Dex.
And that a 'Slinger with low Wis and the Extra Grit Feat has as much Grit as a 'Slinger with 16 Dex. So a Low(er)-Wis build is an option.
(replace Cha for Wis for Mysterious Stranger of course)
I'll make a note, though doing that on a Mysterious Stranger seems counter-productive. You trade a deed for one that banks on your Cha, it seems dumb to then tank your Cha and leave yourself gimped.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
It's annoying/MAD that the Gunslinger's maximum Grit, Menacing Shot, and Stunning Shot are based off of Wis (or Cha), but that your ranged To-Hit, Gun Training, Bleeding Wound, and Death's Shot are based on Dex. Does Pathfinder have an equivalent to Zen Archery? (Or can you just take Zen Archery? It's supposed to be backwards compatible with 3.5? Right?) If so, you could buy a Monk's Belt and magic bracers and be Wis SAD for most of your progression.
Gunslingers are not that MAD since they don't really need STR, and with full BAB and targeting touch armor, they will probably hit every single time anyway.
I just wish grit was Wisdom + 3.
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I can't stand my own grammar mistakes. So if one of my posts has 4+ edits, chances are I fixed 4+ different typos.
I seem to find another one every time I read one of my posts!
I'll make a note, though doing that on a Mysterious Stranger seems counter-productive. You trade a deed for one that banks on your Cha, it seems dumb to then tank your Cha and leave yourself gimped.
I don't know what you are talking about.
How dare you edit in that I would even consider suggesting such a stupid thing...
Are there any optimal ways to help recoup caster level? Currently progressing with a Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)/Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline)/Arcane Archer. Planning on taking 4/3 levels of the base classes to fulfill the BAB requirement for Arcane Archer.
GM is allowing Magical Knack trait, but not Practiced Spellcaster from 3.5's Complete Arcane (for now, anyway).
Are there any optimal ways to help recoup caster level? Currently progressing with a Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)/Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline)/Arcane Archer. Planning on taking 4/3 levels of the base classes to fulfill the BAB requirement for Arcane Archer.
GM is allowing Magical Knack trait, but not Practiced Spellcaster from 3.5's Complete Arcane (for now, anyway).
Currently way to recoup lost casting levels.
A few things though.
I'm assuming you got Arcane Archer approved to work with Firearms, yes?
If not, you'd be better off with Eldritch Knight. Although entry does require 3rd level arcane, it gives full Bab with 9/10 casting. Earliest Eldritch entry would be Gunslinger 1/Sorc 6 (which actually winds up being faster entry than Arcane Archer)
Arcane Archer has a Bab req of 6, so with Slinger 4/Sorc 3 you'd still only have 5 Bab, you'd need to add another level of either.
Also, if you haven't considered it, Empyreal Bloodline Sorc uses WIS not CHA for casting, so you could go Pistolero/Musket Master for 5 levels and get DEX to damage instead.
There are a couple of ARFs you could exploit to get your CL back on certain spells, like Stonesinger, Lightbringer, Pyromaniac, Arcane Training and Wanderlust, and probably some feats but I'm no expert on PF CL boosting by any means. This is just one of those cases where Paizo shows their contempt for multiclassing.
I'll see if I can get some of the core feats up and color-graded tomorrow, as I should have some free time then.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
Do you plan on including favorable Archetypes at all? Because if so, Pistolero and Musket Master deserve glowing praise solely based on allowing you to add Dex to damage rolls.
I'm also a fan of Mysterious Stranger because it lets the character function as party face and have a clear role in the party outside of combat.
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78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
My players met in a mountain pass on their way to a celebratory feast, that was then ambushed by a draconic army. Good times.
Do you plan on including favorable Archetypes at all? Because if so, Pistolero and Musket Master deserve glowing praise solely based on allowing you to add Dex to damage rolls.
Umm... NORMAL Gunslinger gets to add Dex-to-Damage.
Pistolero is special because you get a 'damage' deed right at level 1.
Musket Master is special because at level 3 you reload the same speed as a Pistol (AND get Rapid Reload as a bonus feat).
Mysterious Stranger is special because of using Charisma.
Gun Tank is...not so special. Although if there are a lot of bad-guys with Guns, then Bullet Deflection can be quite handy.
Umm... NORMAL Gunslinger gets to add Dex-to-Damage.
*Rereads.* Oh. So they do.
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78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
My players met in a mountain pass on their way to a celebratory feast, that was then ambushed by a draconic army. Good times.
Do you plan on including favorable Archetypes at all? Because if so, Pistolero and Musket Master deserve glowing praise solely based on allowing you to add Dex to damage rolls.
I'm also a fan of Mysterious Stranger because it lets the character function as party face and have a clear role in the party outside of combat.
I've already mentioned their Deeds and have made many mentions of the various archetypes throughout the Handbook already. They'll get their thorough examination when I get to that post (Post 6 by the index), which may be a while yet.
Pistolero and Musket Master isn't special for Dex to Damage, as mentioned, as the base and archetyped Gunslingers, except Mysterious Strangers, get that. Mysterious Strangers get their stat to damage well before anyone else, though at a cost of Grit.
Gun Tanks may be the weakest archetype, due to the others are all offensive while it's defensive. Armor Training and Bullet Deflection makes them the best defended against assaults, especially against enemy Gunslingers and Alchemists (Yes, Bullet Deflection specifically blocks Alchemist Bombs ) The Fortification deed ain't that great at first, though it grows a bit as you level and you get half of Mettle, so it's very much a Dwarf archetype.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
Guess what? It's April Fool's, fellow Bronies of Ponyland but here's something that isn't a joke: Further formatting and APG feats are in the works and should be done by evening's end Central Time. Slow but steady progress is being made and I'll probably throw in UM's couple of relevant feats as well, leaving just UC's conglomeration before I can move on to the rest of the handbook.
APG's feats done, including some gems I didn't expect to find in there. UM is up as well now, Eldritch Heritage chain offers some surprisingly nice things, when I look at it closer.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
Ultimate Combat's feats are half-done. I hit the post character limit, so I've moved it into the next post. I don't think Your Boomstick and You should be that long a post, so it shouldn't affect the Handbook's structuring. I'm thankful I had the foresight to reserve extra posts for just this occurrence.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
Apparently, Pazio's editors are morons and the author intended it to be a +2 bonus when prone.
That's nothing new.
At least someone came forward to take responsibility and posited what it was supposed to do (I would have been fine with shooting from prone made you more accurate, it's why the U.S. Army has marksmanship qualifications prone expressly for that reason). Better than the alternative of making prone shooting gain a penalty and the feat remove it, as that's just spiteful and doesn't make any sense in RL terms, due to the increased stability such a position has going for it. It'd give support to Gunslinger's Dodge and Leaping Shot, too, which I think wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
The luring cavalier archetype offers a good ability at 3rd level: Ignore Range increment penalties for the first three range increments, hit touch AC within TWO range increments.
(e.g. Pistols can shoot accurately at 40 ft now, muskets at 80ft)
The luring cavalier archetype offers a good ability at 3rd level: Ignore Range increment penalties for the first three range increments, hit touch AC within TWO range increments.
(e.g. Pistols can shoot accurately at 40 ft now, muskets at 80ft)
I think that is a good multiclass option.
Combining Luring and Musketeer actually works fairly well in combination. It'll definitely have a mention when I get that far, though I don't know when next I'll have time to work on the Handbook. Hopefully soon.
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
I've got a weird corner case planned out in my head I want to share. An Asura-spawn Tiefling with a lucky roll on the Fiendish Heritage table can get the ability to 'use Large weapons without penalty'.
Does this let them use siege firearms as 2handed firearms? "A Large or larger creature can use a siege firearm as a two-handed firearm", and the Tiefling isn't large sized, but acts as one in ways that are relevant in this scenario.
The other question is obviously whether it's worth it to even bother. Shot and powder costs 10x as much per shot, and the cannon costs 4x as much as a musket. You're probably going to also have to invest in a handy haversack or bag of holding to carry the cannonballs/powder in, as well as Muleback cords to carry the damn thing at all. Even then, you take a -4 to hit.
The benefits over a standard muscket are 6d6 damage instead of 1d12, 100 foot range increments, and the ability to use scatter shot for a 60ft cone. You can also use the special siege weaponry, which does interesting thing like 30 foot blast radius explosions or entangling a similar area in ice.
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I named and helped build the Pervirtuoso!
Ask me about Simon the Warblade!
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Originally Posted by Waker
[..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
Are you going to say you have Cyberdemon Heritage?
Siege engines also cost double to enchant (ouch).
Are siege engine fire arms even given a weight? I can't find such in the SRD. If you had immunity to book to head, you could say that would make them weightless.
Google+Wikipedia can't get an exact amount (it varies by size and period), but 25 pound cannon balls says larger than the 4800 pound "culverin extraordinary" which fired 20 pound balls, so yeah, far, far outside your limit. Such a cannon would be on wheels (you can push/drag 5x your weight, and I think having wheels would boost that, but I can't find such), but then you are boned if you have to go up stairs, like in a dungeon.
Are you going to say you have Cyberdemon Heritage?
Siege engines also cost double to enchant (ouch).
I actually want to play up the Asura aspect and have the gunslinger be a meditant teaching a warped version of buddhist principles (Life is suffering, seek asceticism/detachment/destruction/emptiness) and have the cannon be a gigantic metal pillar/prayer wheel with sutras of creation and destruction embossed and gilded over it's body.
It's really really over the top but I personally think in a very cool way.
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Google+Wikipedia can't get an exact amount (it varies by size and period), but 25 pound cannon balls says larger than the 4800 pound "culverin extraordinary" which fired 20 pound balls, so yeah, far, far outside your limit. Such a cannon would be on wheels (you can push/drag 5x your weight, and I think having wheels would boost that, but I can't find such), but then you are boned if you have to go up stairs, like in a dungeon.
If you can't lift it, you can't say you're wielding it 2handed, can you? Obviously we need mithral. Or possibly antigravity metal.
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I named and helped build the Pervirtuoso!
Ask me about Simon the Warblade!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waker
[..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
I've got a weird corner case planned out in my head I want to share. An Asura-spawn Tiefling with a lucky roll on the Fiendish Heritage table can get the ability to 'use Large weapons without penalty'.
Does this let them use siege firearms as 2handed firearms? "A Large or larger creature can use a siege firearm as a two-handed firearm", and the Tiefling isn't large sized, but acts as one in ways that are relevant in this scenario.
The other question is obviously whether it's worth it to even bother. Shot and powder costs 10x as much per shot, and the cannon costs 4x as much as a musket. You're probably going to also have to invest in a handy haversack or bag of holding to carry the cannonballs/powder in, as well as Muleback cords to carry the damn thing at all. Even then, you take a -4 to hit.
The benefits over a standard musket are 6d6 damage instead of 1d12, 100 foot range increments, and the ability to use scatter shot for a 60ft cone. You can also use the special siege weaponry, which does interesting thing like 30 foot blast radius explosions or entangling a similar area in ice.
When I get back to updating the guide (may happen this weekend, not sure yet), the next section is on firearms and cannons by extension. I talked about it with Prime32 a couple pages back how to manage cannons and came to the conclusion that the intersection of firearms and cannons and siege engines in general is an unclear mess on how it's supposed to be managed, like how you're supposed to load or aim the thing and whether firearm or siege weapon rules play precedence in that. Also how long it takes to Aim and Reload, considering those tend to be in rounds.
In any case, you'll probably look something like Ovan from .hack//Roots: (warning: big picture)
Spoiler
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Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon
So then why is it heavy if it isn't full of mercy?
10k gold will make it intelligent with 10 in Int/Wis/Cha and let it fly as the spell at a rate of 30ft a round, so if it's not heavy at all! Especially not now that you spent all that gold!
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I named and helped build the Pervirtuoso!
Ask me about Simon the Warblade!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waker
[..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
Honestly, you could just get a large musket and say it's a small artillery piece. It would be cheeper, more practical and actually in areas covered by the rules.
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Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook
) The Fortification deed ain't that great at first, though it grows a bit as you level and you get half of Mettle, so it's very much a Dwarf archetype.
