[3.5e Base Class] Blood King (PEACH)

Welknair · 09-01-2011, 03:37 PM

That's right. It's here.

Blood King

Spoiler

Some individuals have supernatural blood coursing through their veins. Some have more than one such line, known as mudbloods. And then there are those who are descended from mudbloods. The lines blurred and faded. Often to the point where they no longer even manifest themselves. That is until such an individual goes down the path of the Blood King, slowly awakening their ancestry and growing in power. Blood Kings walk a lonely road with many branches. For how does one set about awakening the multitudes of lineages present in oneself? The Blood King masters the ways of the blood, shaping it to their will. The ability to control which of their lines manifest, when and how much is foremost among their capabilities.

Adventures: Blood Kings quest to learn about themselves and the world in which they live. Perhaps by traveling the world, they can find a more innate understanding of the beings which resulted in their creation. Blood Kings often try to find purpose in their lives, whether that be in the defense of the innocent, or in the dominion of armies.

Characteristics: Blood Kings gain access to many Bloodlines over the course of their career and have the ability to change how manifested each is. Due to the large variation in Bloodlines, this means that Blood Kings are very diverse and versatile characters. However, they are still less powerful than an individual that chose a single road.

Alignment: Blood Kings are as variable as their patrons. They range from the True Neutral wandering ranger, trying to find his way in the world, to the Lawful Evil tyrant seeking to conquer all and proclaiming his superiority in blood, to the Chaotic Good do-gooder trying to redeem his demonic ancestors. Blood Kings can be of any alignment and do not have a lean in any direction.

Religion: Blood Kings tend to place little value in divinity, choosing instead to turn inward for aid. For with the blood of a hundred entities, who needs gods and their fickle ways? Planar Tied are the only Blood Kings that commonly prescribe to the dictates of an Outsider.

Background: Blood Kings usually come from lines of heroes, each possessing unique capabilities due to their supernatural parentage. It is equally common for Blood Kings to be the children of the greatest heroes ever known, as it is for them to be the children of humble peasants with family trees containing dragons and angels and heroes, but so far back that no one remembers. Blood Kings can manifest equally well in either environment. If the blood is there, there is the chance that it will call. And the King may choose to answer, going on a journey of self-exploration to fully realizes their powers.

Races: Any common race may yield a Blood King, but Humans are the most common due to their habit of breeding with beings that are not Human. Blooded, with their diverse parentages, often choose to become Blood Kings.

Other Classes: Blood Kings get along alright with most classes. They find individuals who have powers similar to those granted by their Bloodlines fascinating. Blood Kings often make fast friends with Factotums as they share the ability to adapt for any obstacle. Blood Kings respect spellcasters, knowing that though they themselves may be able to conjure a few things, they will never reach the power attained by these individuals. Mundane characters are of little interest to Blood Kings. Who just uses a sword these days?

Role: Blood Kings fill the Jack of All Trades role. At later levels, Blood Kings have access to numerous sets of abilities. They need only know what to choose. Blood Kings also vary in their selection of Bloodlines. Those that choose many similar lines have a more concrete sense of their role and are more capable in it, but have less versatility. Those that choose a wider array have more versatility, but less power. Based on their choices, Blood Kings can fill roles ranging from healer to tank to spellcaster to support.

GAME RULE INFORMATION:
Abilities: Constitution is most important to the Blood King as it increases the number of Blood Points they have to use as well as the number of points that may be shifted with a single use of Shift Line. Charisma is also important as many bloodlines have abilities keyed off of it. Dexterity is as useful as ever, helping the Blood King avoid getting hit.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Starting Age: As Sorcerer.
Starting Gold: As Rogue.

Class Skills: All skills which the Morphic Bloodlines they have access to give bonuses to plus Concentrate, Craft, Knowledge, Profession, Speak Language and Use Magic Device.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4+Int modifier

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	Bloodlines	BP
1st	+0	+2	+0	+2	Morphic Bloodlines, Blood Gift, Blood Mastery - Sense	2	2
2nd	+1	+3	+0	+3	Shift Line 1/day - Full Round	3	4
3rd	+2	+3	+1	+3	Blooded Synergy +1	3	6
4th	+3	+4	+1	+4	Shift Line 2/day	4	9
5th	+3	+4	+1	+4	Blood Mastery - Attune	4	12
6th	+4	+5	+2	+5	Shift Line 3/day	5	15
7th	+5	+5	+2	+5	Know Thy Blood	5	19
8th	+6/+1	+6	+2	+6	Shift Line 4/day - Standard	6	23
9th	+6/+1	+6	+3	+6	Blood Mastery - Greater Sense	6	27
10th	+7/+2	+7	+3	+7	Shift Line 5/day	7	32
11th	+8/+3	+7	+3	+7	Blooded Synergy +2	7	37
12th	+9/+4	+8	+4	+8	Shift Line 6/day	8	42
13th	+9/+4	+8	+4	+8	Blood Mastery - Awaken	8	48
14th	+10/+5	+9	+4	+9	Shift Line 7/day - Move	9	56
15th	+11/+6/+1	+9	+5	+9	Greater Affinity	9	62
16th	+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+10	Shift Line 8/day	10	69
17th	+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+10	Blood Mastery - Weakness in the Blood	10	76
18th	+13/+8/+3	+11	+6	+11	Shift Line 9/day	11	83
19th	+14/+9/+4	+11	+6	+11	Blooded Synergy +3	11	91
20th	+15/+10/+5	+12	+6	+12	Shift Line 10/day - Free, Sovereign of Blood	12	99

Class Features:
All the following are Class Features for the Blood King.

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: Blood Kings are proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons, as well as the use of light and medium armor and all shields except Tower Shields.

Morphic Bloodlines (Su): The defining feature of the Blood King is their Morphic Bloodlines. At level one they choose two bloodlines to gain as Morphic Bloodlines. At second, fourth and every two thereafter they gain access to another Bloodline, up to a max of twelve bloodlines at level twenty. A bloodline may be chosen more than once as long as they have different Lineages. Each morning after eight hours of rest, the Blood King may spend an hour allocating their Bloodline Points (BP=Blood Pressure?) among their various Morphic Bloodlines. They have a number to spend as indicated by the above table plus an additional amount equal to Con Mod X Blood King level X 1/8 and are treated as a character with a Major Bloodline of that kind and a level equal to the number of points allocated into that bloodline. A Blood King may never allocate more points into a Bloodline than they have levels in this class and Ability bonuses to Con from Morphic Bloodlines do not grant Bloodline Points. So for example, a fifth level Blood King with a Red Dragon Descendant Morphic Bloodline could could choose to spend between zero and five of his Bloodline Points in it. If he were to allocate three, he'd gain a +2 bonus to bluff, Keen Senses, and a +1 to strength. If he were to have allocated four, he would have gotten a Breath Weapon and would be treated as a fourth level character with a Major Bloodline for purposes of damage and DCs. As mentioned, each morning the Blood King may reallocate his Bloodline Points. Any ability score bonuses gotten are only temporary, and as such don't do things like count towards skill points obtained at new levels. Mudblood is not a valid Morphic Bloodline choice. Any decisions that must be made for a bloodline cannot be changed once made - this includes Lineage, maneuvers chosen and the like. At 4th, 8th and every four levels thereafter, the Blood King may replace when of their existing Morphic Bloodlines with another, or choose to change decisions made about a current Morphic Bloodline.

Blood Gift: The Blood King's search for enlightenment and true knowledge of their diverse heritage has lead to the realization of several talents that they would not have otherwise come across. Dependent upon which Morphic Bloodlines the Blood King puts points in, they gain different scaling class features. It is worth noting that the Blood King does not normally gain the Gifts of Attuned bloodlines.

Spoiler

Blood Mastery - Sense (Ex): The Blood King knows when there is magical blood about. By studying an individual or creature as a full-round action they immediately know whether or not they would be capable of yielding a child possessing a bloodline, if they are linked to a bloodline, or if they themselves have a bloodline. They do not know the strength or type of bloodline, though they may infer. If the target is disguising themselves, the Blood King must make a successful Spot check to see through the disguise before using this ability.

Shift Line (Su): The ability to change bloodline strengths on the fly is very important. What if a problem presents itself that you did not foresee? Unlike those poor Wizards, Blood Kings have the ability to make adjustments during the course of the day. A number of times per day, as indicated in the table, the Blood King may shift a number of their Bloodline Points up to their one half their Constitution Modifier rounded down or 1, whichever is larger, from one of their Morphic Bloodlines to another, as long as this does not boost it past their Blood King level. The action it takes to use this ability varies, depending on the Blood King's level, as indicated in the table. They gain abilities and bonuses as normal for being a character of that level with a Major Bloodline of that type. If using a bloodline with a point-based system, such as the Akodrin or Half-Blood, you gain the difference between the amount of points they'd have at the previous level and the new level, but do not recover spent points. If they lower their level in a point-based bloodline, they lose a number of points as would be appropriate for such a level drop. So for example, if a Blood King dropped is level in Half-Blood from 6 to 5, he'd lose 4 DP. If he had not spent any, this would drop him to his new max, 2. Shift Line may only be used once per round. Ability bonuses to Con from Morphic Bloodlines do not count towards the number points shifted by Shift Line. Shifting provokes Attacks of Opportunity and requires concentration as if it were a spell of a level equal to half the points that will be in the target Morphic Bloodline, rounded down. This does mean that the King may Shift Defensively to avoid AoOs.

Blooded Synergy (Ex): Blood feeds upon blood. When the Blood King's ancestries work together, they accomplish greater feats. If the Blood King is currently benefiting from two or more skill bonuses to the same skill from their Morphic Bloodlines, they gain an additional bonus to that skill as indicated for each bloodline past the first that gives a bonus to that skill. So if a third level Blood King had two active bloodlines that gave bonuses to Diplomacy, they'd get a total bonus of +5. If the Blood King was benefiting from three bonuses to Diplomacy, they'd instead get +8. The extra amount given increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 19th.

Blood Mastery - Attune (Su): The Blood King can draw power from the supernatural blood of others. By touching an individual possessing, linked to, or capable of yielding a child with a bloodline, they may use their daily uses of Shift Line to allocate points into the bloodline that is possessed, linked to, or would be yielded, even if they do not have it as a Morphic Bloodline themselves. They are temporarily treated as having this bloodline as a Morphic Bloodline if they did not before, and if they did not previously have it, may not allocate further points into it without again touching a being possessing, linked to, or capable of yielding a child with said bloodline. This means that if a Blood King has, say, a Red Dragon Descendant Major Morphic Bloodline and a Red Dragon familiar, he could touch it to more efficiently shift points into it. Or the very same King could touch a Blue Dragon and gain the benefits of a Blue Dragon Descendant Bloodline until he shifts the points back out. If the target has a Mudblood bloodline or is capable of yielding more than one bloodline, the Blood King may choose which component bloodline to Attune with. An additional note for use with Dragon Descendant Bloodlines: This can be used to obtain a Dragon Descendant Bloodline when used on an actual dragon (not necessarily a True Dragon), but not on half-dragons, spellscales, dragonwrought kobolds, or the like. They just aren't potent enough to produce the bloodline. Dragon Shamans, on the other hand, are viable.

Know Thy Blood (Ex): Blood Kings feel an innate attachment to beings with which they have an Affinity, and as such know more about them. Their Affinity bonuses now apply to Knowledge checks as well as social interaction checks.

Blood Mastery - Greater Sense (Su): The Blood King at this point has become attuned the essence of supernatural blood and can sense it at a range. At will, the Blood King may use this ability to sense beings possessing, linked to, or capable of yielding bloodlines. This ability functions as Detect Magic, except that it is these entities that are detected, not the presence of magic. When they would learn the strength of a magical aura, they instead learn the degree of the bloodline that is possessed or would be yielded.

Blood Mastery - Awaken (Su): Everyone has ancestry. If you go far enough back, surely they have a supernatural patron in their family tree. All you need to do is wake up that part of them. The Blood King gains the ability to use Shift Line to shift is Bloodline Points into another individual, causing them to be treated as if they had one of the Blood King's Morphic Bloodlines with a number of points in it equal to that which the Blood King shifted into them. The number of points may not exceed the subject's character level. At any time that the Blood King is reallocating their points, whether through Shift Line or after an eight hour rest, they may choose to recall the point back for their own use.

Greater Affinity (Su): Blood Kings know how to get their way in the world, especially with individuals with whom they have an Affinity. The Blood King may cast Charm Monster at will as a supernatural ability on a being with whom he has an Affinity. The caster level is equal to the Blood King's class level, except it cannot last longer than a single day. The DC is equal to 10 + his affinity bonus with that being.

Blood Mastery - Weakness in the Blood (Ex): One's blood tells all. If you know their blood, you know their body. Know their body, and you know how to kill them. The Blood King gains a bonus on all attack and damage rolls as well as on all bloodline ability DCs equal to his Affinity bonus with the target, with a maximum of +6. This does not apply to the DC of Greater Affinity.

Sovereign of Blood (Su): The Blood King is the absolute controller of supernatural bloodlines. He possesses the ability to grant and empower them to individuals that so wish it. As a full-round action, the Blood King may either bestow a bloodline he possesses as a Morphic Bloodline to a willing individual. The Blood King may choose what degree to make the bloodline and the subject immediately gains a number of permanent negative levels as appropriate for the degree of bloodline and their level. Similarly, he may increase the magnitude of an existing bloodline. Granting a minor bloodline takes 5 Shift Line uses, increasing a bloodline from Minor to Intermediate take 5, and increasing a bloodline from Intermediate to Major takes 10.

Note for characters with Natural Bloodlines: For the most part, Morphic Bloodlines are kept separate from Natural Bloodlines. If the Blood King has a Natural Bloodline with a degree less than Major, they may choose to allocate Bloodline Points to it to empower it. They may allocate up to 1/4 their level in BP to Minor Bloodlines and up to 1/2 their level in BP to Intermediate Bloodlines. Round up for both cases. Each point spent on a Minor Bloodline counts as an additional four levels for purposes of that bloodline, whereas each point spent on an Intermediate Bloodline counts as an additional two levels. Bloodline Points may freely be Shifted in and out of these bloodlines as per the normal rules of Shift Line.

Feats

Extra Shift
You've improved your ability to shift your Morphic Bloodlines to accomodate for unforeseen obstacles.
Prerequisite: Shift Line class feature
Benefit: You may use Shift Line an additional time per day.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. It's effects stack.

Extra Line
You have awoken another Morphic Bloodline.
Prerequisite: Moprhic Bloodlines class feature
Benefit: You gain access to an additional Morphic Bloodline.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose a different Bloodline each time, or at least a Bloodline with a different Lineage.

Favored Line
You have embraced a specific bloodline, and increased your power with it.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature
Benefit: You are treated as permanently having two Bloodline Points allocated in this bloodline, though they do not count towards the max that you may allocate, nor may they be Shifted. In this way you may surpass the usual limitations.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose a different Bloodline each time.
Special: If a Favored Line is included in a Mixed Line (See below) which has been allocated one or more points, then this feat instead grants a one point bonus to the Mixed Line. Once there are no points in the mix, this changes to the standard two point bonus to the designated line. This stacks, if more than one line in the Mix is favored. A Mix itself cannot be Favored.

One's Own Blood
Though you may have a Bloodlines using different aspects of yourself to fuel their powers, you have mastered the art of using only your true essence, your strongest self, for these purposes.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature
Benefit: You use your highest mental stat in place of Charisma, Intelligence and Wisdom wherever they are mentioned in your Morphic Bloodlines.

Mixed Lines - Courtesy of Owthro
You have learned to combine some of your bloodlines.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature, Access to three bloodlines
Benefit: Select two bloodlines you have access to. You gain a mixed bloodline with them as the component bloodlines. At the beginning of each day when you decide to assign your bloodline points, you decide the mix of your mixed bloodline. To do so, for each level of it, select that level's ability from one of the component bloodlines. You may reassign the mix each day, though it may not be reassigned with the Shift Line ability. You may not have BP points assigned to a mixed bloodline at the same time as any of its component bloodlines, or another mixed bloodline that shares a component bloodline with it. If one of the component bloodlines uses a point system, only levels for which it grants an ability from that bloodline count for the points. If a bloodline a series of abilities that build upon one another (Such as the maneuvers of the Bladechild), the prior abilities must be taken before the subsequent ones.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose different component Bloodlines each time. You may select a mixed bloodline you already possess. If you do, any component bloodlines of that mixed bloodline are considered components of it. If a bloodline has multiple Lineages, treat each lineage as a separate bloodline for the purposes of this feat and counting component bloodlines.

And done. Whew. A lot of work. I look forward to playing this.

radmelon · 09-01-2011, 04:09 PM

You know, I hadn't thought that a class based on bloodlines could work, but you did it. Have an internet.

Welknair · 09-01-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmelon

You know, I hadn't thought that a class based on bloodlines could work, but you did it. Have an internet.

I'll hopefully be playing this in the Homebrewer's Campaign I've been organizing, so I made sure it was some of my best work.

TravelLog · 09-01-2011, 04:16 PM

Just so I fully understand, a 20th level Blood King could use his BP to have 10 levels in four bloodlines but would only gain the benefits of the first 10 levels of those bloodlines?

Could you maybe show an example 20th level character of this class with all his BP assigned?

Welknair · 09-01-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelLog

Just so I fully understand, a 20th level Blood King could use his BP to have 10 levels in four bloodlines but would only gain the benefits of the first 10 levels of those bloodlines?

Could you maybe show an example 20th level character of this class with all his BP assigned?

That is correct. Or he could choose to be treated as 20th level in two, or 4th level in 10 and so on.

I've never been great at making stat blocks... I'll need to look at some similar character stat blocks before I go making one for this class, though it would be a good idea.

TravelLog · 09-01-2011, 05:08 PM

As a sidenote, I think another great class feature would be the ability to choose one/two stats and have that modifier be taken as they key modifier(s) for all of their bloodlines so that they don't suffer from such insane
MAD. Maybe an alternate capstone for more self-oriented players (like solo games) or just as an additional boon?

I love it as a whole, and think it will be fascinating to watch it in action in your Homebrewer's Campaign.

Lots of synergy, and great class features. Attune does need clarification about the degree of efficiency it adds for BP allocation. For example, touching a Red Dragon should probably grant greater efficiency than touching a Dragonblooded/Dragontouched/Half-dragon or a templated creature. Just a though. It mainly originated from the issue of draconic heritage feats etc. On certain PC races making this potentially abusable.

Welknair · 09-01-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelLog

As a sidenote, I think another great class feature would be the ability to choose one/two stats and have that modifier be taken as they key modifier(s) for all of their bloodlines so that they don't suffer from such insane
MAD. Maybe an alternate capstone for more self-oriented players (like solo games) or just as an additional boon?

Hmm. Well for the most part Charisma is used for the DCs of powers, but aside from that everything is based on level, instead of a key stat. Namegiven relies on Int and Half-Blood on Wis, though. On the other side, I don't know if it's right to make it easier for these guys to utilize all of these systems at once. It may be better if they choose a smaller subset

If I were to add this in, I don't think it would be a capstone, as that still means they'd be suffering through MAD for 19 levels. More likely, I'd make it a feat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelLog

Attune does need clarification about the degree of efficiency it adds for BP allocation. For example, touching a Red Dragon should probably grant greater efficiency than touching a Dragonblooded/Dragontouched/Half-dragon or a templated creature. Just a though. It mainly originated from the issue of draconic heritage feats etc. On certain PC races making this potentially abusable.

Hmm... I'll try to remedy this.

And I'm glad that you like it.

EdroGrimshell · 09-01-2011, 06:09 PM

...I'm going to play this. ~~I'll also keep track of that game~~better yet, i'll see about DMing it.

This will be much better when you finish all the bloodlines you're working on.

Welknair · 09-01-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdroGrimshell

This will be much better when you finish all the bloodlines you're working on.

Yup. Right now I think I have just enough for this to be viably playable. I am planning on finishing all those on my to-do list. Just been a bit busy recently.

Owrtho · 09-01-2011, 06:43 PM

This looks quite interesting. I'd suggest noting how it works with people who already have a bloodline. Do they gain extra BP, or do these just stack on top of the bloodline they have. It seems like it would be a good class for a blooded. Perhaps I'll think about some racial substitution levels, though I'm not sure what they'd do.

Also a thought for a feat. it would generally grant the ability to have some late level abilities from one bloodline while gaining the lower level abilities of another, though with limitations. May need some cleaning up for wording.

Mixed Lines
You have learned to combine some of your bloodlines.
Prerequisite: Morphic Bloodlines class feature, Access to three bloodlines
Benefit: Select two bloodlines you have access to. You gain a mixed bloodline with them as the component bloodlines. At the beginning of each day when you decide to assign your bloodline points, you decide the mix of your mixed bloodline. To do so, for each level of it, select that level's ability from one of the component bloodlines. You may reassign the mix each day, though it may not be reassigned with the Shift Line ability. You may not have BP points assigned to a mixed bloodline at the same time as any of its component bloodlines, or another mixed bloodline that shares a component bloodline with it. If one of the component bloodlines uses a point system, only levels for which it grants an ability from that bloodline count for the points
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Choose different component Bloodlines each time. You may select a mixed bloodline you already possess. If you do, any component bloodlines of that mixed bloodline are considered components of it. If a bloodline has multiple Lineages, treat each lineage as a separate bloodline for the purposes of this feat and counting component bloodlines.

Owrtho

Welknair · 09-01-2011, 07:16 PM

Added info for Natural Bloodline Blood Kings and added your feat. Thank you very much, Owthro.

Edit: Added One's Own Blood feat, as suggested for MAD v SAD. I'm afraid it may be so good it'll be considered a feat tax. Do you guys think I should grant it for free at 1st level?

Fitz10019 · 09-02-2011, 09:00 AM

I'm sorry, but "Blood King" is too cool of a name for a base class. Please downgrade the name. Perhaps Blood Dude.

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz10019

I'm sorry, but "Blood King" is too cool of a name for a base class. Please downgrade the name. Perhaps Blood Dude.

I stole the awesomeness from my last bloodline's name. The Inherent. Bleck. Couldn't come up with something I was happy with for that one.

But if I'm going to be playing this thing, it oughta at least have a good name.

-Evil Voice- SANGUINE SOVEREIGN

Daverin · 09-02-2011, 10:29 AM

So... Welk? Remember that thing I said that you sigged? Well. Go ahead and turn that up to 11. Just go ahead. Do it.

I NEVER would have thought of a class based on bloodlines. That is just insanely awesome.

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daverin

So... Welk? Remember that thing I said that you sigged? Well. Go ahead and turn that up to 11. Just go ahead. Do it.

I NEVER would have thought of a class based on bloodlines. That is just insanely awesome.

I'm thinking about stating that your are treated as your full character level for level-dependent abilities, but you only gain access to Bloodline features as appropriate to the number of points you allocated into that line. This would make dabbling in multiple lines far more viable, as currently the only way to have powers that do squat is to have two maxed bloodlines. Yeah, I think I'll change that. Still thinking about what to do about One's Own Blood.

So for my first 3 (Morph says that he has a preference towards 3rd level), I'm thinking a Bladechild of some sort, Noble-Blood and perhaps a Magyk-Touched. Or maybe Titankith, that was a good one..

Edit: Made the aforementioned change, and decided not to do anything about One's Own Blood. Only caster-specialized Blood Kings would make much use of it, in which case I think it's a fair trade for the powers they'd get.

Editedit: One's Own Blood with a character that has a high in Int. And then get the Kitten-Friend. You get to add your Int modifier to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Gather Information. And you have cat ears. I'm not whether this is bad or awesome.

Pyromancer999 · 09-02-2011, 01:27 PM

This class is pretty good overall, except for one thing: The amount of Blood Points. Basically, if only invested into two bloodlines for max capacity, it's like having two Major Bloodlines...and not much else. Definitely needs an increase in the amount of Blood Points, and maybe a bonus based on Wis or Con or some other ability score.

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyromancer999

This class is pretty good overall, except for one thing: The amount of Blood Points. Basically, if only invested into two bloodlines for max capacity, it's like having two Major Bloodlines...and not much else. Definitely needs an increase in the amount of Blood Points, and maybe a bonus based on Wis or Con or some other ability score.

Hmm.. LevelX3+Cha?

I do agree that it needs more points, especially at later levels, but boosting the flat rate is going to result in early-level Blood Kings having more points than they can spend.

Perhaps I should change it from a linear progression to an exponential one?

2
3
5
8
12
17
23
30
38
47
57
68
80
93

---

Nope, too fast.

2 - Two maxed
4
6
9
12
15
19
23
27 - Three maxed
32
37
42
48
56 - Four maxed
62
69
76
83
91
99 - One short of 5 maxed

Hmm... That's a bit better, though still may be too much at later levels. And that's not including some method of working in an ability score bonus. And if I'm going to increase the number of BP so much, an increase in Shift Line may also be warranted..

Edit: For the ability bonus, I'm thinking about modeling it after that for Psionics. Ability modifier X Blood King level X 1/4. So you'd pretty much just take the table here and halve the values. That means at 5th, when you'd likely have an 18, you'd have a total of 17 points. At 10th when you'd have a likely have around a 22 (after items), you'd have 47 points. At 15th with around 28, that'd be 95. And lastly at 20th at around 32, that'd be 154.

...

That's a bit more than the current 40, and I think it puts too much emphasis on the ability score as it ends up making up over a third of the total points, as opposed to the just-under-a-fourth with the Psion and this system.

More thought needed.

Pyromancer999 · 09-02-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welknair

2 - Two maxed
4
6
9
12
15
19
23
27 - Three maxed
32
37
42
48
56 - Four maxed
62
69
76
83
91
99 - One short of 5 maxed

Hmm... That's a bit better, though still may be too much at later levels. And that's not including some method of working in an ability score bonus. And if I'm going to increase the number of BP so much, an increase in Shift Line may also be warranted..

I like this one.

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyromancer999

I like this one.

I concur. Though there is still the matter of how the ability score plays in. See my previous post for the ninja'd edit on that topic.

And then there's the matter of which ability score to key it off of. Whatever I choose, I'll need to include the caveat that bonuses to that stat from bloodlines do not increase your BP.

Charisma would be nice and synergistic with the requirements of most of the casting lines and represents the type of self-exploration I'm aiming for as the power source for this class. Then again, Con isn't used for any of the casting and as such wouldn't cause Blood King to be biased towards those and away from int and wis based lines, while at the same time representing how the Blood King has greater control over their body. Then Wisdom could similarly be used to represent the discipline they possess...

Again, more thought needed.

Edit: For the ability score formula, maybe bump it down again to Ability Score X Blood King level X 1/8? I think that's a bit more reasonable...

Editedit: If I am increasing the BP like this, do you think I should reverse my previous change about level-based effects always using the full level instead of the number of points in that line? I think I may.. Again only casting ones take a real hit from this, and I think those should generally require more investment anyways..

Pyromancer999 · 09-02-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welknair

I concur. Though there is still the matter of how the ability score plays in. See my previous post for the ninja'd edit on that topic.

And then there's the matter of which ability score to key it off of. Whatever I choose, I'll need to include the caveat that bonuses to that stat from bloodlines do not increase your BP.

Charisma would be nice and synergistic with the requirements of most of the casting lines and represents the type of self-exploration I'm aiming for as the power source for this class. Then again, Con isn't used for any of the casting and as such wouldn't cause Blood King to be biased towards those and away from int and wis based lines, while at the same time representing how the Blood King has greater control over their body. Then Wisdom could similarly be used to represent the discipline they possess...

Again, more thought needed.

Edit: For the ability score formula, maybe bump it down again to Ability Score X Blood King level X 1/8? I think that's a bit more reasonable...

Editedit: If I am increasing the BP like this, do you think I should reverse my previous change about level-based effects always using the full level instead of the number of points in that line? I think I may.. Again only casting ones take a real hit from this, and I think those should generally require more investment anyways..

I like the edit ability score formula. Not entirely sure what you're talking about in the editedit, though.

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyromancer999

I like the edit ability score formula. Not entirely sure what you're talking about in the editedit, though.

Originally level-dependent effects of a bloodline (such as the CL of a Magyk-Touched's spells or the damage of a Dragon Descendent's Breath Weapon) were dependent upon the number of points in that bloodline, but I later changed it to equal to full Blood King level despite the number of points. This was because with only enough points to max two bloodlines, your abilities really weren't potent unless you maxed those lines, resulting in you always having two maxed lines. With the full level change you become able to dabble in multiple lines and still have the abilities be useful. But now that the Blood King has such a greater number of points, I don't think this is going to be a problem. And so I changed it back.

Still need to decide on what ability score to use.

And I'm thinking about making a second base class that is to this what the Wilder is to the Psion and the Sorcerer is to the Wizard. But you know... with hopefully less sucky-ness. They'd be able to Shift at will but have a much smaller selection of Bloodlines.

Edit: Thinking Con or Wis for this one, Cha likely for the other.

Owrtho · 09-02-2011, 03:00 PM

Well, just thought I'd mention first, you seem to have a typo in Morphic Bloodlines. The table shows you getting a new bloodline every even level, and 2 at first. The description states you get 2 at first, and one every odd level after.

As for blood points, lets look at some possible variations.
Linear is what you currently have. Yours, is your current proposed progression. Sum, is simply adding a number of blood points equal to the level you are gaining to your current total (and gives far too many, avoid it). Partial sum is adding half the new level, rounded down, minimum 2. Prime increases each level by the number of prime numbered levels you already have taken (if a minimum of 2 were enforced, you just need to add 1 for every level after 1st).

Bolded numbers show each time increase in the maxed number of maxed lines.

Level	linear	yours	sum	partial sum	prime
01	2	2	2	2	2
02	4	4	4	4	3
03	6	6	7	6	5
04	8	9	11	8	7
05	10	12	16	10	10
06	12	15	22	13	13
07	14	19	29	16	17
08	16	23	37	20	21
09	18	27	46	24	25
10	20	32	56	29	29
11	22	37	67	34	34
12	24	42	79	40	39
13	26	48	92	46	45
14	28	56	106	53	51
15	30	62	121	60	57
16	32	69	137	68	63
17	34	76	154	76	70
18	36	83	172	85	77
19	38	91	191	94	85
20	40	99	211	104	93

As for your ruling on if level based abilities are based on level or points invested, I'd say it depends on how many blood points you end up with overall. Personally, while I think it's nice for ability modifiers to improve ones point pool, I'm not so sure about having it scale with level, and if it does, it should be kept rather low.
As for what ability to use, I'd say Con would work best, as most characters benefit from a high con, and it is generally tied to things based on one's blood.

Edit: seems you changed the bp progression while I was typing this post. Still linear is what you had.

Owrtho

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owrtho

-Snip-

Thank you for catching that typo - fixed.

As you saw I added the new BP progression. And I just finished adding the bit on the bonus due to high Con. Feeling much better about the quantity of BP they get.

Edit: Hey, I could alter Shift Line to shift a number of BP equal to your Con Mod or one, whichever is greater. That would help with the greater number number of BP, though it would require tweaking Attune. Perhaps then Attune would just use same rate as normal Shifting.

TravelLog · 09-02-2011, 03:53 PM

Level	Blood Points
01	2
02	4
03	6
04	8
05	10
06	13
07	16
08	19
09	22
10	26
11	30
12	34
13	38
14	43
15	48
16	53
17	58
18	64
19	70
20	76

The Progression is this:
Start=2
Levels 2-5: +2
Levels 6-9: +3
Levels 10-13: +4
Levels 14-17: +5
Levels 18-20: +6

You might wish to tweak the system slightly, but I think it achieves a good balance of giving more blood points, but not so many as to be overpowering. You can max out 3 bloodlines, get to level 10 in a fourth, and get to level 5 in a fifth, with one point to spare.
Essentially, it's 3 Major, 1 Intermediate, 1 Minor or alternatively 2 Major, 3 Intermediate, 1 Minor.

Welknair · 09-02-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravelLog

The Progression is this:
Start=2
Levels 2-5: +2
Levels 6-9: +3
Levels 10-13: +4
Levels 14-17: +5
Levels 18-20: +6

You might wish to tweak the system slightly, but I think it achieves a good balance of giving more blood points, but not so many as to be overpowering. You can max out 3 bloodlines, get to level 10 in a fourth, and get to level 5 in a fifth, with one point to spare.
Essentially, it's 3 Major, 1 Intermediate, 1 Minor or alternatively 2 Major, 3 Intermediate, 1 Minor.

That would have been the next step down, had I determined my current pattern was too much (Which I may yet do). My current pattern is:

Start=2
Levels 2-4: +2
Levels 5-7: +3
Levels 8-10: +4
Levels 11-13: +5
Levels 14-16: +6
Levels 17-18: +7
Levels 19-20: +8

The increment that I add increases every three levels whereas under yours it's every four. I had tried every level and every other prior to settling on my current pattern. Hmm... I may downgrade..

Edit: Changed Shift Line to now shift up to Con Mod BP. That should help accommodate for the increased quantity of BP. This makes it far more powerful at early levels, capable of reassigning all, or most of a Blood King's BP. At later levels multiple uses of the ability are required to make more substantial changes whereas brief adjustments may be made in a single round. It also makes Con even more valuable as now the higher one's Con is, the more flexible they are.

Editedit: Added the caveat saying that Shift Line may not be used more than once a round and changed the Races entry to include Blooded.

I've been thinking about that shift in Shift Line, and how now at 20th level it's still likely enough to completely reassign all the Blood King's BP. However, it does take 10 rounds to do so.. I think that this boosts Shift Line to the point where it actually registers on the power of the class. Thoughts on the power level of this? I'm not sure that I want them to be able to completely reassign everything... Perhaps I should change it to 1/2 Con Mod. That may be more reasonable.

Editeditedit: Made the aforementioned change. Now 1/2 con mod. Now if my math isn't horribly off they should be able to change around half their points during the course of the day.

Amechra · 09-06-2011, 09:30 PM

Mixed Bloodline can do some interesting things with a Mudblood Bloodline; since it would mean that nifty stuff is granted at different levels, letting you get rid of stuff you don't want, while keeping all the good stuff...

Owrtho · 09-06-2011, 11:07 PM

You can't use it with mudblood bloodlines as they aren't valid choices for the Morphic Bloodlines ability. Also, abilities have to stay at the same level you would gain them otherwise.

Owrtho

Welknair · 09-06-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amechra

Mixed Bloodline can do some interesting things with a Mudblood Bloodline; since it would mean that nifty stuff is granted at different levels, letting you get rid of stuff you don't want, while keeping all the good stuff...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owrtho

You can't use it with mudblood bloodlines as they aren't valid choices for the Morphic Bloodlines ability. Also, abilities have to stay at the same level you would gain them otherwise.

Owrtho

Though it still does allow for some interesting strategy in how one goes about choosing the allocation of their BP. Combine that with Blooded Synergy for skill challenges and the ability to shift BP around with Shift Line, and you have some interesting choices to make.

What do you guys think about the current balance-level? Too strong? Too weak? With the quantity of BP it's currently set to have, I think it should be up-to-snuff with the other classes, though I am still somewhat concerned about that it won't have the sheer power of the others.

Lord_Gareth · 09-07-2011, 09:54 AM

I have deep, deep concerns that even Major bloodlines =/= Real Actual Class features. That is, after all, why they gain twenty levels worth of stuff in exchange for only sacrificing three levels of advancement.

Pyromancer999 · 09-07-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

I have deep, deep concerns that even Major bloodlines =/= Real Actual Class features. That is, after all, why they gain twenty levels worth of stuff in exchange for only sacrificing three levels of advancement.

The thing is, while they do get 20 levels of stuff, most of the earlier stuff isn't exactly too strong nor equivalent to a class feature. It's usually at the later levels that anything comes to resemble a class feature in comparative power.