Young Justice (Spoilers)

[kpenguin]

Spoiler

Kaldur makes an amazing villain. He's the new Sportsmaster. That is all.

[Hopeless]

Originally Posted by kpenguin

Spoiler

Kaldur makes an amazing villain. He's the new Sportsmaster. That is all.

Yes he does, however I suspect neither he nor some of his former team mates are as unrelenting as things appear and I can see Conner deliberately helping Kaldur escape rather than have Meg'an use her telepathy on him...

[ThePhantasm]

I don't really get what's happening when Megan uses her super-telepathy and the aliens drool. Does she render them comatose? Kill them? It seems Superboy is unsettled by it but no one else seems to be. She seems totally unperturbed by it herself.

[The Bushranger]

I wouldn't say Superboy was the only one perturbed. Alanna didn't look all that comfortable either...

Why Batman didn't call her out, though, I dunno, unless of course she was putting the mind-whammy on him too.

[Hopeless]

Originally Posted by The Bushranger

I wouldn't say Superboy was the only one perturbed. Alanna didn't look all that comfortable either...

Why Batman didn't call her out, though, I dunno, unless of course she was putting the mind-whammy on him too.

Yes I found that odd too and the look the Martian Manhunter gave when she did what she did made me wonder why the heck were they heading offworld when something that could prove staggeringly devastating to everyone on Earth was left unchecked?

[Mutant Sheep]

They probably actually expect Superboy and the new team to. His teammate. His responsibility.( until she has to be taken down. Hard.) At least, that might be Bat's plan. I'm expecting her to try and mindkill a alien/dude when the team is about to capture it/him and THEN we can have a discussion about it.

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by The Bushranger

Why Batman didn't call her out, though, I dunno, unless of course she was putting the mind-whammy on him too.

I'm not sure Batman would be uncomfortable with brutal / painful interrogation tactics, as that's the sort of thing he does. If she was rendering them comatose, dead, or brain dead, however, that would be another thing entirely...

[Callos_DeTerran]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

I don't really get what's happening when Megan uses her super-telepathy and the aliens drool. Does she render them comatose? Kill them? It seems Superboy is unsettled by it but no one else seems to be. She seems totally unperturbed by it herself.

Yeah, Superboy isn't the only one who seems perturbed by what Megan did. In the new episode, Martian Manhunter gives her a look through the glass once

Spoiler

the little guy foams over.

[The Bushranger]

I took that as more a befuddled look on his part, along the lines of 'what just happened?', although given how stoic he is it's hard to tell sometimes.

Pretty obvious Connor is going to boil over if she does it again, though.

[Aotrs Commander]

Woo. That were a good 'un.

Aqua lad has gone quite bonkers, hasn't he?

He does make a good villain, but again, I'm a touch unconvinced as to the whole face-heel turn as it were...

Then again, I also half-suspect deep undercover, because this show is like that (and itr's lilkely to be one the first thoughts of the genrea-savvy), or equally it could be genuine (for precisely the same reason), because this show is clever enough to try that too.

Hah, Bat-family. Also, heroes and their sidekicks! Nice.

The trial is quite clever because a) it gets the JL heavy hitters out of the road for the characters of the series to shine and b) gets the JL heavy hitters out of the road for the Light's plans for an unspecified period.



Still a little worried about Kid Flash and Artemis...

(Given Tula and what was that we were sayign earlier in the week about not killing people off off-screen...?)

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

I don't really get what's happening when Megan uses her super-telepathy and the aliens drool. Does she render them comatose? Kill them? It seems Superboy is unsettled by it but no one else seems to be. She seems totally unperturbed by it herself.

Pretty sure it's the old Prof X mindwipe/ brain death there...

Note that both victims ended up drooling, which is generally used as a sign of the whole brain-fried thing. (Accurately or not, it's a fairly common motief.)

Little surprised MM didn't say anything, actually...

That said, I am liking Miss Martian being all ruthless-ish and professional-y. (Like the new hairstyle too, a rare enough comment from me!) Not quite sure why, but I think a lot of is it I like that sort of character inversion. How long it retains it's charm is another question.

[Flickerdart]

Well, she is a White Martian, so the ruthlessness thing is probably built in. I don't doubt that this will come up again.

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander

(Given Tula and what was that we were sayign earlier in the week about not killing people off off-screen...?)

Was Tula ever on-screen, period? I can't remember.

I guess since it is a kid's show, off-screen is a pretty convenient way to kill a character without being too "violent" or something.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

Was Tula ever on-screen, period? I can't remember.

Yep. She was in the episode early in season 1 where Aqualad was spending time in Atlantis, the one where Black Manta attacked and Starro got blown up. She was Aqualad's ex-girlfriend who ended up with his best friend Garth.

Zevox

[DeltaEmil]

Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander

Aqua lad has gone quite bonkers, hasn't he?

He does make a good villain, but again, I'm a touch unconvinced as to the whole face-heel turn as it were...

Then again, I also half-suspect deep undercover, because this show is like that (and itr's lilkely to be one the first thoughts of the genrea-savvy), or equally it could be genuine (for precisely the same reason), because this show is clever enough to try that too.

I doubt that he's being undercover. He let a bunch of aliens die in a giant nuclear explosion. He didn't even try to at least warn them.

[Aotrs Commander]

Originally Posted by DeltaEmil

I doubt that he's being undercover. He let a bunch of aliens die in a giant nuclear explosion. He didn't even try to at least warn them.

Doesn't mean he's necessarily evil, just not Superman/Batman level good.

Though that is a fair point, nonetheless.

[kpenguin]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

Well, she is a White Martian, so the ruthlessness thing is probably built in. I don't doubt that this will come up again.

I'm sure that's what the green Martians say, white Martians being a maligned minority and all that.

[Jayngfet]

Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander

Doesn't mean he's necessarily evil, just not Superman/Batman level good.

Though that is a fair point, nonetheless.

Of course you need to realize this is an animated series on Saturday morning on basic cable. The only character who even brought up moral ambiguity in this show is Lex Luthor.

Of course, I think my respect for Aqualad probably took a nosedive anyway. I mean his whole "hid my father" thing kind of rings hollow when Superboy found out who his father was and didn't completely overreact, freaking Superboy. Dude had to fight for every inch of respect just to be considered a person literally from the moment he could walk, and the moment things got real for him he stopped and talked about it with everyone.

[Aotrs Commander]

Something somebody mentioned on another thread made me remember: is it me, or does Wonder Girl actually have muscles? Noticebly more than the other females (especially in comparison to Wonder Woman herself.) Maybe it's just that her costume accentuates it or something, but she looks a lot more buff than the others. This is a good thing.

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander

Something somebody mentioned on another thread made me remember: is it me, or does Wonder Girl actually have muscles? Noticebly more than the other females (especially in comparison to Wonder Woman herself.) Maybe it's just that her costume accentuates it or something, but she looks a lot more buff than the others. This is a good thing.

She and Wonder Woman are both pretty buff.

[Jaros]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

She and Wonder Woman are both pretty buff.

Interesting that the more muscular are those whose powers are magic based (still awesome though :P)

[Aotrs Commander]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

She and Wonder Woman are both pretty buff.

Huh.

Wonder Woman's build seems a bit inconsistant, then, as in some shots:

Spoiler

She looks much less so.

Maybe she's bulked up a bit between seasons (possibly just as an art upgrade) or something?

Still, I think it's a nice touch regardless. While I don't object to females having mostly-supernatural strength, it's nice to occasionally see one or two that actually have some grounding in muscles (as many male superheroes do), just from a varity perspective.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Originally Posted by Jayngfet

Of course, I think my respect for Aqualad probably took a nosedive anyway. I mean his whole "hid my father" thing kind of rings hollow when Superboy found out who his father was and didn't completely overreact, freaking Superboy. Dude had to fight for every inch of respect just to be considered a person literally from the moment he could walk, and the moment things got real for him he stopped and talked about it with everyone.

The situations aren't the same though. It was a big surprise when Superboy found out the source of his human DNA, because nobody knew about it (or did Robin know? I remember him popping up with a 'I knew' at least once...). Superboy also encountered Lex in a relatively neutral position, he may have heard Lex was a villain, but he hadn't experienced it and Lex wasn't exactly being hostile at the time.

On the other hand, Aqualad in all likely hood thought he did know who his father was. Then he, somehow, gets the bomb-shelled dropped on him that not only did Aquaman (his beloved king) lie to him about who his father was, his father was a man he's had to fight before and was attacking Atlantis (I missed a lot of the earlier episodes of Young Justice, so I didn't actually see the Black Manta episode). Aqualad's grievance isn't so much that his father is Black Manta (though that's a part of it), it's the fact the king he fought and would have died for was lying to him all his life.

Not saying that makes what he did right, but it makes his decision more understandable if there's other thing that had happened during the 5 year period.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

Not saying that makes what he did right, but it makes his decision more understandable if there's other thing that had happened during the 5 year period.

Frankly no, this is not reconcilable with the guy who not only didn't flinch when M'gann revealed her true form, but went on to scold her for thinking it was anything that needed hiding. To say nothing of why he was in charge of the Team to begin with. Oh and immediately taking in his two teammates 'bad blood' as no problem because your parent don't determine who you are. His underlying maturity is too well established for this to make sense.

The Aqualad I got to know would be hurt and angry, but also understand why they kept it quiet when he was young. He would not run off to join the badguys for some kind of petty revenge against the whole ninja village that had nothing to do with the matter... oh sorry there I got confused with a series with a much less solid record for a second.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

Frankly no, this is not reconcilable with the guy who not only didn't flinch when M'gann revealed her true form, but went on to scold her for thinking it was anything that needed hiding. To say nothing of why he was in charge of the Team to begin with. Oh and immediately taking in his two teammates 'bad blood' as no problem because your parent don't determine who you are. His underlying maturity is too well established for this to make sense.

Yeah, that's the issue. Like I said, I can see Aqualad getting upset and emotional over either of the incidents he mentioned. But going straight-up villain over it? No, not him. He was by far the most emotionally stable, mature member of the team. No matter how upset he got, he wouldn't go and join someone like Black Manta over it. It's just not believable.

That's not to say they couldn't make it believable with the right setup, but they missed the opportunity to do that when they decided to just have it occur during a time skip rather than do it on-screen.

Zevox

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Yeah, that's the issue. Like I said, I can see Aqualad getting upset and emotional over either of the incidents he mentioned. But going straight-up villain over it? No, not him. He was by far the most emotionally stable, mature member of the team. No matter how upset he got, he wouldn't go and join someone like Black Manta over it. It's just not believable.

That's not to say they couldn't make it believable with the right setup, but they missed the opportunity to do that when they decided to just have it occur during a time skip rather than do it on-screen.

Zevox

While it certainly does need further explanation, I don't think it is unbelievable. Aqualad really seemed to be giving the team everything he had in terms of time investment and dedication, taking it very seriously. He didn't get much character development outside of our brief introduction to Tula (who was in a relationship with Garth at the time) and his constant effort to be the best leader possible for the team.

Tula and the Team were the two things that we know he really cared about. Now Tula is dead, and he has discovered that Black Manta is his father - i.e. that the Justice League he was fighting for for so long lied to him, perhaps didn't even trust him with that information. Its a double loss, a double whammy to the two most important areas of his life (from what we've seen anyways). That could have a dramatic effect, even on someone who appears strong on the outside.

So I think even as it stands it is pretty believable. Sure, we didn't get to see it all due to the time jump, but I'm sure that info is coming. This season, like the last one, is a bit of a slow unraveling...

[otakuryoga]

Spoiler

what the bleep?
did we have another time skip?

didn't we just learn that red arrow is a clone, and now we hear they gave up the search for the original "years ago"......

and wally/artemis

red/cheshire

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by otakuryoga

Spoiler

what the bleep?
did we have another time skip?

didn't we just learn that red arrow is a clone, and now we hear they gave up the search for the original "years ago"......

and wally/artemis

red/cheshire

Spoiler

No, same timeskip. It was five years, remember? Plenty of time for a search to occur and be given up, and relationships to develop.

Of course, I can't say that understand the situation with Wally and Artemis. They just gave up crime fighting? Um, was there a reason for that? Because we didn't get given any, and it's kind of a bit of an odd move. Yeah, more stuff I'm not liking about the time skip there, though at least this isn't as bad as Aqualad.

On the flip side, I think I'm starting to like Blue Beetle, so there's that.

Also, anyone want to bet that our mystery villain is Darkseid? That last silhouette looked right for him, and it would explain the odd voice.

Zevox

[blackspeeker]

Originally Posted by Zevox

Spoiler

No, same timeskip. It was five years, remember? Plenty of time for a search to occur and be given up, and relationships to develop.

Of course, I can't say that understand the situation with Wally and Artemis. They just gave up crime fighting? Um, was there a reason for that? Because we didn't get given any, and it's kind of a bit of an odd move. Yeah, more stuff I'm not liking about the time skip there, though at least this isn't as bad as Aqualad.

On the flip side, I think I'm starting to like Blue Beetle, so there's that.

Also, anyone want to bet that our mystery villain is Darkseid? That last silhouette looked right for him, and it would explain the odd voice.

Zevox

Spoiler

Im sure there was a reason for artemis and wally to give up crime fighting, im sure its not a good one, judging by how Aqualad has been handled.

Also I thought brainiac was the villain at the end, but darkseid works too. I only think Brainiac because I thought the voice sounded robotic, and DC cant ever seem to exclude him from a show.

[ThePhantasm]

My thoughts on "Salvage":

Spoiler

Meh. First episode of the season I haven't really cared for. The whole golem story was awkwardly paced, and the reactor threat was just silly. And then Darkseid (?) destroys the golem and doesn't destroy the reactors? Why? Didn't he want to cause some sort of chaos? Couldn't he just blow it up and then everyone would blame the golem for it? What was he trying to accomplish anywho? It doesn't add up.

Red Arrow's angsty subplot wasn't that great either, though at least it let us know where the rest of the team has been hanging out. I have trouble sympathizing with RA when Superboy went through the same doubts about being a clone and came out just fine, without 5 whole years of moaning. His desire to find Speedy I understand, fine, but quit the whole "I'm a clone" crybaby stuff... gee whiz.

Not bothered that Wally and Artemis decided to retire. I suspect they'll be back in superhero business before long though.

High points: Superboy and Blue Beetle are both great characters, and having them work together was a lot of fun. I think Superboy is quickly becoming my favorite character on the show. He's like a super intense Superman - that's pretty badass.

[Mutant Sheep]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

My thoughts on "Salvage":

Spoiler

Meh. First episode of the season I haven't really cared for. The whole golem story was awkwardly paced, and the reactor threat was just silly. And then Darkseid (?) destroys the golem and doesn't destroy the reactors? Why? Didn't he want to cause some sort of chaos? Couldn't he just blow it up and then everyone would blame the golem for it? What was he trying to accomplish anywho? It doesn't add up.

Red Arrow's angsty subplot wasn't that great either, though at least it let us know where the rest of the team has been hanging out. I have trouble sympathizing with RA when Superboy went through the same doubts about being a clone and came out just fine, without 5 whole years of moaning. His desire to find Speedy I understand, fine, but quit the whole "I'm a clone" crybaby stuff... gee whiz.

Not bothered that Wally and Artemis decided to retire. I suspect they'll be back in superhero business before long though.

High points: Superboy and Blue Beetle are both great characters, and having them work together was a lot of fun. I think Superboy is quickly becoming my favorite character on the show. He's like a super intense Superman - that's pretty badass.

Spoiler

While I don't like the way that they make Red be so desperate (like much of this season, so far it seems pretty implausible), I do love the way they show it. He has the all-too-common "hasn't shaved in a week" beard going on, but his arms were skinny and lean and he carried himself in a way that sold it for me.

I'm satisfied with the main plot of the episode. ???Darkseid??? and Sportsmaster came outa the blue, and I was expecting Sportsmaster to have had a KILLER makeover since he killed all those Kroloteans, but it worked great. I'm no massive Darkseid lore fan, but I don't think he runs around flinging radioactive waste. Killing the golem was explained well, though it attacking Superboy was... weird.