"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

[tyckspoon]

Originally Posted by subject42

I can't speak for traditional spear fishing, but a modern spear gun is kind of like an industrial murder slingshot.

Well that wouldn't be a thrown weapon anymore, would it? You'd go to the rules on normal ranged weapons there, which do work underwater.. they just have hilariously high penalties to hit anything farther away than about 10 feet.

[Dragonsoul]

5% of all rogues would survive a Nuclear Bomb drop...Well it is an Explosion, so it allows a reflex save right? (This came up in last Sundays game, where my party blew up a wizards tower and surrounding orphange and countryside) The mental image of them Backflipping ten Miles is Amusing though...

[Jack_Simth]

Originally Posted by Dragonsoul

5% of all rogues would survive a Nuclear Bomb drop...Well it is an Explosion, so it allows a reflex save right? (This came up in last Sundays game, where my party blew up a wizards tower and surrounding orphange and countryside) The mental image of them Backflipping ten Miles is Amusing though...

Nah, he just steps into Roguespace for a few instants. Possibly a few minutes, considering how long the blast takes. Probably wouldn't help with the fallout, though....

[Jeraa]

Well, since making a reflex save doesn't actually move you at all, the rogue doesn't backflip 10 miles. He just stands at ground zero, unharmed, cape and hair blowing in the breeze. Just as bad though.

[Tvtyrant]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth

Nah, he just steps into Roguespace for a few instants. Possibly a few minutes, considering how long the blast takes. Probably wouldn't help with the fallout, though....

A monk on the other hand would make his save versus radiation poisoning as well, and would skip merrily into the sunset. His one real power!

[Dragonsoul]

Originally Posted by Jeraa

Well, since making a reflex save doesn't actually move you at all, the rogue doesn't backflip 10 miles. He just stands at ground zero, unharmed, cape and hair blowing in the breeze. Just as bad though.

Please don't ruin my mental image, although yours gets amusing when the rogue realises that the a)The Floor does not have evasion b) He's at the top of the tower.

[Amphetryon]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth

Nah, he just steps into Roguespace for a few instants. Possibly a few minutes, considering how long the blast takes. Probably wouldn't help with the fallout, though....

To be fair, earlier iterations of D&D did make Evasion into the Incredible Bouncing Thief (Rogue). Allied Magic-Users would target the Thief in order to get him closer to or further from the enemy, as needed.

[douglas]

Originally Posted by Dragonsoul

Please don't ruin my mental image, although yours gets amusing when the rogue realises that the a)The Floor does not have evasion b) He's at the top of the tower.

Another advantage for the monk: Slow Fall! Assuming a wall survived, anyway.

[Dragonsoul]

Unless hes slow falling off the falling masonry(Remember you have to be touching a wall)....actually I'd allow that.

Actually, by RAW could a Monk have a piece of Masonry to allow him to slow fall anywhere? It just says a wall, not a stationery wall.....

[Qwertystop]

Originally Posted by douglas

Another advantage for the monk: Slow Fall! Assuming a wall survived, anyway.

Wow, we found something the Monk is good at! Surviving tower-destroying explosions while at the top of a tower!

Bit of a niche, but still...

[noparlpf]

I usually cheat a little and take the Stormwrack ACF Water Step when I use the Monk. Walking on water comes up more frequently than falling while within five feet of a wall.

[Dragonsoul]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Wow, we found something the Monk is good at! Surviving tower-destroying explosions while at the top of a tower!

Bit of a niche, but still...

I think we'll take even the smallest victories

[Blackfang108]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Oh wow... that's great.

Almost as good as pages 91 and 92 of the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Is that the Deja Vu power?

[theMycon]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

I have made DC 32 jumps and can reproduce the feat.

32 feet long, or 8 feet high?
I'm a so-so jumper, and can occasionally get a 3' vertical jump, but.... Either of those sounds like something that should be in the "superhuman only" range.

Originally Posted by qwertystop

Wow, we found something the Monk is good at! Surviving tower-destroying explosions while at the top of a tower!

Bit of a niche, but still...

This has actually come up the one time I played a monk. It was in a pathfinder adventure module, and I refused to get out while the little zerg-things were trying to get out. (So did the wizard, but he had spider-climb)
I successfully ran on the rolling tower side, stunning fisted whatever came close, and leapt out to dramatically slow-fall down the cliff as it fell. Whatever it's lack of offensive use, monk is dramatic and cannot be killed.

[holywhippet]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Wow, we found something the Monk is good at! Surviving tower-destroying explosions while at the top of a tower!

Bit of a niche, but still...

That pretty much sums up most of the monk special abilities - niche. Most of them are pretty good, but they are very situational and can often be copied using a spell or item. For example, their poison and disease immunity (except to supernatural diseases IIRC) seems great on paper, but how often does the average PC actually encounter poison or disease? Unless the DM decides to run the players through a gauntlet of snakes, spiders and scorpions you generally won't get much use out of poision immunity.

[Jack_Simth]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

Have you ever seen RotW's Halfling Rogue? At 1st level, your ranged sneak attack is +1d6 and your melee sneak attack is +0. At 20th level, your ranged sneak attack is +10d6 and your melee sneak attack is +9d6. I'm pretty sure they meant for ranged to be +2d6 and melee to be +0, and then at 20th level for ranged to be +11d6 and melee to be +9d6.

Oh, and the entire mechanics for Jump and Carrying Capacities bother me.
According to the Carrying Capacities chart my Strength is between 16 and 20.
I have made DC 32 jumps and can reproduce the feat.

Let's see... Barbarian-3 with skill focus(Jump), max ranks (6) in jump, and a base Strength score of 16... rages to Str-20, has a +4 bonus from his speed, and thus has a Jump modifier of +18; makes DC 32 on a roll of 14. Somewhat focused character, there, but it's doable (also: Losing rage makes the need a 16; losing Fast Movement makes it need a 20).

[Zaq]

Originally Posted by theMycon

This has actually come up the one time I played a monk. It was in a pathfinder adventure module, and I refused to get out while the little zerg-things were trying to get out. (So did the wizard, but he had spider-climb)
I successfully ran on the rolling tower side, stunning fisted whatever came close, and leapt out to dramatically slow-fall down the cliff as it fell. Whatever it's lack of offensive use, monk is dramatic and cannot be killed.

You know, unless they attack you with, like, a sword or something. How's your AC?

[holywhippet]

Originally Posted by Zaq

You know, unless they attack you with, like, a sword or something. How's your AC?

Well, that comes down to whether you let your opponent attack you. A monk has a lot of speed - if your opponent has only a melee weapon the monk can happily stay out of hitting range and lob weapons at them. Doesn't work real well indoors, unless you have plenty of ranks in tumble.

[navar100]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

where is this table?

DMG page 128

[Zaq]

Originally Posted by holywhippet

Well, that comes down to whether you let your opponent attack you. A monk has a lot of speed - if your opponent has only a melee weapon the monk can happily stay out of hitting range and lob weapons at them. Doesn't work real well indoors, unless you have plenty of ranks in tumble.

Or unless, you know, you want to hit them with your much-vaunted fists. Or use Flurry of Blows. Or be anything resembling relevant.

I suppose that "not being enough of a threat to kill" is a valid way of staying alive, for a very loose definition of "valid."

I can see where Monks are supposed to be very hard to kill, but like everything else about the Monk, that's pretty much a failure.

[Hirax]

How powerful monk abilities were thought of by the designers is nicely demonstrated by the fact that they're the only class that gets an epic feat every 5 levels, all other classes get them at least every 4 levels. Totally brainless. Especially because clerics and wizards, among others, get them every 3 levels.

[NNescio]

Monk Capstone: "Congratulations, you get to be the Wizard's slave!"

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

'Buying' a strand of prayer beads with no beads on it...

[Drelua]

Originally Posted by Ryu_Bonkosi

'Buying' a strand of prayer beads with no beads on it...

So if it just has a bead of karma, it's free? Cool, CL +4 for free.

[LordBlades]

Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess

It's harder to identify a Warhorse than a Blink Dog.

A Huge Air Elemental is harder to identify than a Small Air Elemental.

An Elephant is harder to identify (and know details about) than a Pixie.

Of course, when I'm playing or running a game, we have situational modifiers... Very rare creatures, or creatures with multiple templates, apply a penalty to the Knowledge Devotion roll.

What's more hilarious is that an average farmer (commoner 1; int 10, if he puts 2 cross-class ranks in knowledge(nature) he has a +2 modifier) has a roughly 40% chance (if he rolls 8 or lower) to not have a clue what a given 1HD farm animal (DC 11)is.

[MeeposFire]

As a corollary to the monk the totemist (and most if not all post 3.5 core classes and prcs) are not proficient with their granted natural attacks (assuming you are humanoid).

I think this is due to core using a lot of copy paste and that by 3.5 proficiency with natural weapons was either forgotten about or they chose to ignore the rule. Suffice to say it is a common omission.

So fear not monk you are in good company.

[Runestar]

Just a few observations:

When conceptualising undead, did the designers realise that the removal of a con score would make undead npcs very fragile? For example, a dracolich great wyrm dragon would have its hp literally slashed to 1/3 of its original hp, and at cr+3. This often ends up making them very fragile for their cr.

[etrpgb]

Originally Posted by douglas

Another advantage for the monk: Slow Fall! Assuming a wall survived, anyway.

Yeah, monk is a great class. At level 20 you get the power of a level 1 spell! Oh, no... You need the wall. ALMOST as a level 1 spell.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by theMycon

32 feet long, or 8 feet high?
I'm a so-so jumper, and can occasionally get a 3' vertical jump, but.... Either of those sounds like something that should be in the "superhuman only" range.

Actually, neither. A combination of long- and high-jump. They say that on a long jump you should reach a height of roughly one-quarter the distance you jumped. But I jumped over a picnic table the short way, going only about three feet "long" but about four feet "high".
So we take 1/4 of 3' away from 4' because I would have gone that high just for jumping 3' forwards. Now it's DC=(3x1)+(3.25x4)=16x2*=32.
*Because I didn't take a running start and doubt I have the Goliath trait Mountain Movement or the feat Leap of the Heavens.

(This is how I spent my summer when I couldn't find a job.)

I've also jumped up 4' walls without a running start before. I've jumped up a roughly 5.5' wall with a 10' running start.
Surprisingly I've never tried long-jumps. I should get on that.

[etrpgb]

Originally Posted by Runestar

Just a few observations:

When conceptualising undead, did the designers realise that the removal of a con score would make undead npcs very fragile? For example, a dracolich great wyrm dragon would have its hp literally slashed to 1/3 of its original hp, and at cr+3. This often ends up making them very fragile for their cr.

They come up with the ridiculous ``unholy toughness'' to compensate. The real problem is that undeads get d12 what ever base dice they had. So a wizard probably enjoys a fighter, a barbarian or a dragon... not much.

Maybe it is better just to increase the HP dice? For example... d4 becomes d8, d6 becomes d12, d8 becomes 2d8, d10 becomes... d20, d12 become 2d12.