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Right, so this is my first attempt at homebrewing for 4e, though I've done quite a bit for 3.5 over the years. I haven't collected the powers for the class yet, but I wanted to post this now and see if I'm heading in the right direction or not. I'll post some powers once I have them presentable. Edit: Added sixth level powers and I'll have 7th, 9th, and 10th level up soon.
Champion
Spoiler
Champion Martial Controller “No death shall befall those who follow my banner, for I am mighty, and thou art not.” Role: Controller. You use a spiritual connection to combat to manipulate swaths of the battlefield. You favor Leader or Striker as a secondary role. Power Source: Martial. You have trained in combat and learned to true difficulties of leading a battle. You are the scourge of the field, travelling about at will through the conflict, and you bring your warrior’s spirit to bear against those that would oppose you. Key Abilities: Charisma, Constitution, Dexterity Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Military Melee, Simple Ranged Implements: Melee weapons you are proficient with Bonus to Defense: +1 Fort, +1 Will Hit Points @ 1st Level: 13 + Constitution Score Hit Points gained at each level: 5 Healing Surges Per Day: 6 + Constitution Modifier Trained Skills: From the skills below, choose three trained skills at 1st level:
Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis) Build Options: Warblade Champion, Windwrath Champion Class Features: Standard of the Champion (Terror or Heroic), Warrior’s Spirit, Warrior’s Fever
The battlefield is a place where glory is won and lost and no one knows the glory of battle quite like the champion. The champion is a warrior who embodies conflict on a fundamental level. They lead men into battle and turn the tide of battles. Though they do not last on the front lines alone, they can affect entire legions of enemies with their skills and their warrior’s spirit. They know that battles are won, not only though strength of arms, but strength of will. They can slay and demoralize groups of enemies, granting themselves or allies bonuses in combat.
Whether they were trained to be commanders of the battlefield or thrust into battle after battle alongside weary soldiers, the champion has learned first hand how battles feel when in the middle of it all. They have felt the adrenaline push them further than ever before and yet the strange calm of a life or death struggle; the scream of conflict and the odd silence of combat. Those who survive walk away with a power unleashed within them they know only other warriors can understand.
Champions can wade through battle disorienting and injuring groups of foes with whirling weapons or they can send the energy of their spirit out among their foes and bring them to their knees, ripe for the slaying.
Champion Class Features: Champions have the following class features.
Spoiler
Standard of the Champion: Champions are icons on the battlefield. Foes quake from their presence and allies find strength in their passing. Champions select one of the following features at 1st level: Standard of Terror: While you are not bloodied and after you hit with a Martial attack power, you gain an Aura 2 that lasts until the start of your next turn. Enemies within your aura gain vulnerability to psychic equal to your Constitution modifier. Standard of Heroes: While you are not bloodied and after you hit with a Martial attack power, you gain an Aura equal to your Dexterity modifier that lasts until the start of your next turn. Enemies in the zone treat it as difficult terrain when moving towards you or your allies.
Warrior’s Spirit: You automatically gain the Warrior’s Spirit at-will power.
Warrior’s Fever: When you are bloodied in combat you may make an extra minor action on your turn. This action must be used to sustain a Champion power.
Creating a Champion Warblade Champion:
As a Warblade Champion, you are a symbol of strength to your allies. You wade through combat alongside other warriors and deal death across the field personally. Suggested Class Feature: Standard of Heroes Windwrath Champion:
As a Windwrath Champion, you strike fear into the hearts of any who would oppose you. You use your warrior’s spirit as an advantage in combat and strike at groups of enemies from behind other combatants. Suggested Class Feature: Standard of Terror
Warrior’s Spirit – Champion Class Feature At-Will * Martial, Psychic Standard Action – Area burst 1 within 10 squares Target: Each creature within the burst Attack: Charisma vs. Will Hit: Charisma modifier psychic damage, and you push the target(s) a number of squares away from you equal to your Charisma modifier. Level 21: 1d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Spirited Shout - Champion 1 You let loose a battle cry that stings at your opponents' wills. At Will * Martial, Thunder, Psychic, Implement, Fear
Standard Action - Close blast 3 Target: Each creature in blast Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier Psychic and Thunder damage. Level 21: 2d6 + Charisma modifier Psychic and Thunder damage.
Champion's Blow - Champion 1 Surrounded, you unleash a series of strikes that hits each and every foe. At Will * Martial, Weapon, Psychic
Standard Action - Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier Psychic damage Level 21: 2[W] + Charisma modifier Psychic damage Special: If you are using a weapon with the reach property to perform this power, the range of this power is close burst 2 instead.
Arashi - Champion 1 Your weapons blurs as you strike every foe around you in a blinding, spinning attack that forces them to move carefully to avoid you. At Will * Martial, Weapon, Psychic
Standard Action - Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage Effect: Targets are slowed until the end of your next turn.
Terrifying Blow - Champion 1 You strike a nearby foe fiercely, sending your presence out among your foes and making them flee. At Will * Martial, Weapon, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Melee 1 Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier Psychic damage. Effect: Enemies in a close blast 3 may be pushed a number of squares equal to your Constitution modifier.
Launching Strike - Champion 1 You strike sending a wave of warrior's will across the field, striking as though you were right before the target. At Will * Martial, Weapon, Psychic
Standard Action - Ranged 10 Requirement: You must be wielding a melee weapon or two melee weapons Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma Psychic damage. Effect: Enemies in a close burst of 1 of the target take Psychic damage equal to your Charisma modifier.
Level 1 Encounter Attack Powers
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Spirit Throw - Champion 1 You swing your weapon in a massive downward arc in front of you, sending waves of your spirit away from you destroying everything between you and your target. Encounter * Martial, Weapon, Psychic
Standard Action - Ranged 10 Requirement: Must be wielding a melee weapon or two melee weapons. Target: One creature in range Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier Psychic damage. Make a secondary attack. Miss: Half damage. No secondary attack. Secondary Target: Each creature between the primary target and you in a straight line Secondary Attack: Charisma vs AC Secondary Hit: 1[W] Psychic damage Miss: Half damage.
Ziegander's Crushing the Spirit - Champion 1 You strike a vicious blow like the ancient warrior Ziegander, demoralizing all who witness the slaughter. Encounter * Martial, Weapon, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Melee 1 Target: One creature. Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Effect: Enemies in a close burst equal to your charisma modifier suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls until the end of your next turn, or a -2 penalty if this attack bloodied its target. Standard of Terror: The penalty to attack equals your Constitution modifier, or your Constitution modifier +1 if this attack bloodied the target.
Gaze of Battle Lust - Champion 1 You set your will upon a group of enemies and your unflinching gaze unsettles them. Encounter * Martial, Psychic, Implement, Fear
Standard Action - Area burst 1 within 10 squares Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier Psychic damage Effect: Enemies struck by this attack are immobilized (save ends).
Rooting Battlegaze - Champion 1 Your glare terrifies your opponents, making each step a struggle. Encounter * Martial, Psychic, Implement, Fear
Standard Action - Area burst 1 in 10 squares Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier Psychic damage Effect: This power's area is difficult terrain until the end of your next turn. Standard of Heroes: Sustain Minor: The area of difficult terrain persists until the end of your next turn.
Overwhelming Speed - Champion 1 You move with such swiftness that opponents stand in awe and move as if weighted down. Encounter * Martial, Weapon, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Melee 1 Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 1[W] Psychic damage and the target is slowed (save ends). Miss: Half damage and the target is knocked prone instead.
Level 1 Daily Attack Powers
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Striking the Stone - Champion 1 You strike the ground beneath you, sending debris projecting at enemies and creating rubble. Daily * Martial, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action - Close Blast 5 Target: Each creature in blast Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1d10 + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Effect: Squares in the blast are considered difficult terrain for the rest of the encounter Level 21: 2d10 + Charisma modifier psychic damage
Dragon Head Technique - Champion 1 You strike across the field using a speed technique learned from the ancient masters. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Weapon
Standard Action - Close blast 5 Target: Each enemy in blast Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier Psychic damage. Effect: You may shift a number of squares equal to your dexterity modifier when you use this attack, however you must end your movement adjacent to one of the targets.
Rooting Strike - Champion 1 You lash out with your spirit, stinging your foes' wills and rooting them into place with fear. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Implement, Fear
Standard Action - Area burst 1 within 10 squares Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Effect: Each target takes psychic damage equal to your Constitution modifier the next time that target moves.
Warrior's Wall of Will - Champion 1 You unleash your will against your enemies forcing them to face you head on. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Weapon, Zone
Standard Action - Close Wall 5 Target: Each creature in wall Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 2d8 + Charisma modifier Psychic damage. Effect: You create a zone in the form of a wall which lasts until the end of your next turn. Make the following attack against any creature that moves into the zone or ends its turn in the zone. Sustain Minor: The zone lasts until the end of your next turn. Secondary Attack: Charisma vs AC Secondary Hit: 1[W] Psychic damage
Burning Technique - Champion 1 Your spirit builds up around you forming a tangible field of your willpower that pains nearby opponents and helps you strike true. Daily * Martial, Weapon, Psychic
Standard Action - Melee 1 Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier Psychic damage. Effect: You gain an Aura 2 which deals Constitution modifier Psychic damage to all adjacent enemies until the end of your next turn. Sustain Minor: The aura persists until the end of your next turn. While the aura persists, you may spend a standard action to attack with this power again.
Level 2 Utility Powers
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Long Form - Champion Utility 2 Your weapons seem to strike beyond their normal reach as you shift into an old style of heavy combat. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Weapon
Effect: Two-Handed Weapons, or versatile weapons you wield two-handed, are treated as having reach until the end of the encounter.
Force of Personality - Champion Utility 2 You rush your foe with a shout, startling them and pushing them back. Encounter * Martial, Psychic, Fear
Effect: You may use your Charisma modifier in place of your Strength modifier for Bull Rush attempts until the end of your next turn. Sustain Minor: You may continue to use your Charisma modifier until the end of your next turn.
Twin Form - Champion Utility 2 You move into a style of fighting that takes advantage of using multiple weapons. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Weapon
Effect: You may wield a one-handed weapon in your off hand as if it had the off hand property when using Champion powers until the end of the encounter. When doing so, designate which weapon you make your attack with before rolling the attack.
String Form - Champion Utility 2 You have mastered the ways of the archers of the south and are never at a disadvantage with a bow. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Weapon
Effect: When you are using a ranged weapon that is not a sling you may treat it as a simple melee weapon for the purposes of making melee attacks until the end of the encounter. The weapon is treated as having the following statistics: Size: 1hand, Prof: +2, Dmg: 1d6, Grp: Mace, Prop: Versatile
Level 3 Encounter Powers
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Searing Spirit - Champion 3 The champion strikes out with his weapon and leaves burning willpower in the wounds he creates. Encounter * Martial, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action - Ranged 10 Target: One, Two, or Three creatures. Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1d10 + Charisma modifier damage, and ongoing 5 psychic damage (save ends).
Blade of Fear - Champion 3 The champion strikes hard and sends a wave of terror into his foes. Encounter * Martial, Weapon, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Close Burst 2 Target: Each creature in burst Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier damage Standard of Terror: Target is dazed (save ends).
Gleaming Strike - Champion 3 The flash of steel freezes opponents where they stand. Encounter * Martial, Weapon, Psychic
Standard Action - Close Blast 5 Target: Each enemy in blast Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and the target is immobilized until the end of your next turn. Standard of Heroes: Target is immobilized (save ends).
Cruel Blow - Champion 3 The champion lands a fearsome blow that sends the targets off their feet. Encounter * Martial, Weapon, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Melee 1 Target: One or Two creatures Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier damage, and the target is knocked prone.
Level 5 Daily Powers
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Fierceness - Champion 5 Mad fury drives the champion's weapon spinning violently until they blur with blades of spirit. Daily * Martial, Weapon, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Close Burst 3 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 3[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Miss: Half damage.
Ensnaring Strike - Champion 5 Weapons spin so quickly that they blur only to be joined by weapons of pure warrior's spirit that continue to fill the air even after the champion ceases to strike. Daily * Martial, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action - Close Burst 2 Target: Each creature in burst Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 1[W] damage, and you create a zone that persists until the end of your next turn. Effect: Creatures in the zone are slowed (save ends). Creatures that enter the zone immediately take 5 psychic damage. First Failed Saving Throw: Creatures in the zone are immobilized (save ends). Sustain Minor: The zone persists until the end of your next turn.
Mind Strike - Champion 5 You lash out with your warrior's spirit disorienting and injuring a foe until he strikes out randomly in his confusion. Daily * Martial, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action - Ranged 20 Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Effect: Target makes a melee basic attack against each creature in a close burst 1 from him.
Flame Hawk's On Your Knees - Champion 5 Like the ancient king Flame Hawk, you force your opponents to their knees with your spirit. Daily * Martial, Implement, Psychic, Fear
Standard Action - Close burst 2 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: Target is knocked prone and immobilized (save ends both). Miss: Target is knocked prone and slowed (save ends both).
Level 6 Utility Powers
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Versatile Mobility - Champion Utility 6 You direct the battlefield in such a way as to allow a quick maneuver, repositioning yourself or an ally. Daily * Martial, Teleportation
Move Action - Ranged 10 Target: Yourself or one ally in range. Effect: Shift up to 10 squares.
Hammerstorm - Champion Utility 6 You strike out and force your will upon your enemies, creating the illusion of a storm of blows in an area. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Zone
Standard Action - Close Blast 5 Effect: You create a zone in the area of the blast until the end of your next turn. Enemies treat the zone as difficult terrain. Sustain Minor: The zone persists until the end of your next turn.
Aura of Debilitation - Champion Utility 6 Your spirit flows out making the weariness of conflict affect enemies more severely while leaving allies vigorous. Daily * Martial, Psychic, Fear, Aura
Immediate Interrupt - Personal Trigger: An enemy is affected by a status effect that ends on a save. Effect: You gain an aura until the end of your next turn equal to your Charisma modifier. Enemies in your aura must save twice to end negative status effects which end on a save. Sustain Standard: Your aura persists.
Level 7 Encounter Powers
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Blade Hazzard - Champion Attack 7 You strike an opponent sending shockwaves of your spirit that knocks them away. Encounter * Martial, Psychic, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee 1 Primary Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs AC Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier damage. Secondary Targets: Two creatures within 10 of the primary target Secondary Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: 1[W] psychic modifier damage, and the targets are knocked prone.
Level 9 Daily Powers
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Sorry, I'll have them up soon!
Level 10 Utility Powers
Spoiler
Sorry, I'll have them up soon.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Warrior Icon
[Multiclass Champion]
Prerequisites: Cha 13 and either Con 13 or Dex 13 Benefit: You gain training in the Intimidate skill.
Once per encounter you can use one of the Champion's Standard of the Champion abilities.
Great Warrior's Fever [Champion]
Prerequisite: Champion, Cha 15 Benefit: Your Warrior's Fever ability generates a move or a minor action for the purposes of sustaining a Champion power.
Shrug Off [Champion]
Prerequisite: Champion, Con 15, Standard of Terror Benefit: You invoke the Shrug Off power: Shrug Off - Feat Power You use your inner resolve to resist a potentially killing blow, then turn your resolve into crushing terror. Encounter * Martial, Psychic
Immediate Interrupt - Personal Trigger: An enemy scores a critical hit on you. Effect: You reduce the damage you take by your Constitution modifier and the enemy who hit you takes a penalty on his next attack roll against you equal to your Constitution modifier. Special: You must have taken the Shrug Off feat to use this power.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
While the name is a tad generic, the flavor seems alright to me so far.
What's your reasoning behind giving a martial class psychic abilities though? I can understand spirited cry being psychic as the flavor is demoralizing your opponents, but what about the others?
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I have a standard disclaimer to any type of homebrew feedback I give: Damage balance is not something I have a good grasp on, and anything I say related to that should be taken with a healthy helping of salt.
My concept was the "warrior's spirit" theme that you see in a lot of martial arts films and stories. When I was thinking of the type of damage that would come from a warrior sending his spirit out to strike at opponents physically and mentally only two seemed to fit, psychic and force. I went with psychic because force felt more arcane. The one paragon path I've got in mind at the moment allows champions to manifest their spirit in more physical ways (fire and thunder mostly). I've also thought about doing pp's that grant radiant damage from a holy spirit (but not divine), and necrotic for darker character builds. All that's just speculation at this point though. I want to finish the character's normal powers before I really touch pp's.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Standard of the Champion: Champions are icons on the battlefield. Foes quake from their presence and allies find strength in their passing. Champions select one of the following features at 1st level: Standard of Terror: When you are not bloodied and are in combat, you and your allies within 10 squares of you deal extra psychic damage equal to your charisma modifier against bloodied creatures. Standard of Heroes: When you are not bloodied and are in combat, you and your allies within 10 squares of you gain a +1 morale bonus to all defenses and a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls using martial powers.
As a controller, the Champion needs to have controller class features. This is a leader class feature through and through. I understand it tends toward leader as a secondary role, but that's what builds are for, not class features.
I also would like to see the options mirror themselves better. Having one key from Charisma but the other not seems odd.
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Warrior’s Fever: When you are bloodied in combat you may make an extra minor action on your turn. This action must be used to sustain a Champion power.
Interesting. And, possibly the best example of a martial controller class feature I've ever seen.
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Warblade Champion:
As a Warblade Champion, you are a symbol of strength to your allies. You wade through combat alongside other warriors and deal death across the field personally.
And this is what I meant earlier. A Warblade Champion can get leader type riders on his powers, that's fine and that works, but a default Champion, before taking build into account, should be getting controller features, not leader features.
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Windwrath Champion:
As a Windwrath Champion, you strike fear into the hearts of any who would oppose you. You use your warrior’s spirit as an advantage in combat and strike at groups of enemies from behind other combatants.
Likewise, a Windwrath Champion can get striker-y evasion or extra damage as riders on his powers, but he should still have controller class features.
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Warrior’s Spirit – Champion Class Feature At-Will * Martial, Psychic Standard Action – Area burst 1 within 10 squares Target: Each creature within the burst Attack: Charisma vs. Will Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and you push the target(s) a number of squares away from you equal to your Charisma modifier. Level 21: 2d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage.
Not sure how I feel about this. I don't think I've ever seen a controller get a power as a class feature like this, but that doesn't automatically make it wrong. It feels odd to me because it doesn't really link up to anything else the class does. Defenders get free powers, because they're marks which tie into just about everything the classes do. This just helps the Champion control slightly better than it would without it. Overall, I don't like it.
Currently, about the class so far as a whole, I'm not sure you're succeeding at the idea of a Martial Controller. It hardly ever uses its weapons or other "martial prowess" to control foes relying instead of bursts of psychic energy. Its functional, but the style is off, in my opinion.
As a controller, the Champion needs to have controller class features. This is a leader class feature through and through. I understand it tends toward leader as a secondary role, but that's what builds are for, not class features.
I also would like to see the options mirror themselves better. Having one key from Charisma but the other not seems odd.
I agree, but that's why I posted my WIP rather than completing the class before posting. Any suggestions with how to make his powerful warrior's presence carry out in a selected feature that doesn't reek of Leaderishness?
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Originally Posted by Ziegander
Interesting. And, possibly the best example of a martial controller class feature I've ever seen.
Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziegander
Not sure how I feel about this. I don't think I've ever seen a controller get a power as a class feature like this, but that doesn't automatically make it wrong. It feels odd to me because it doesn't really link up to anything else the class does. Defenders get free powers, because they're marks which tie into just about everything the classes do. This just helps the Champion control slightly better than it would without it. Overall, I don't like it.
It's mostly to grant a fluff related power that exemplifies his fighting spirit. Truth be told, my intent is to make about half his powers distinctly weapon attacks and half spirit attacks. That's just where I'm thinking now, though, feel free to suggest another direction.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
I agree, but that's why I posted my WIP rather than completing the class before posting. Any suggestions with how to make his powerful warrior's presence carry out in a selected feature that doesn't reek of Leaderishness?
How about something like...
Standard of Heroes
A Champion that chooses this class feature is a glorious combatant whose reputation precedes him. While he is not bloodied, in a Close Burst equal to the Champion's charisma modifier, each time an enemy in that area moves or shifts it must use 1 square of that movement moving toward the Champion.
Standard of Terror
A Champion that chooses this class feature is a marauder and brigand who preys on his victims. While he is blooded, in a Close Burst equal to the Champion's charisma modifier, each time an enemy in that area moves or shifts it must use 1 square of that movement moving away from the Champion.
?
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It's mostly to grant a fluff related power that exemplifies his fighting spirit. Truth be told, my intent is to make about half his powers distinctly weapon attacks and half spirit attacks. That's just where I'm thinking now, though, feel free to suggest another direction.
Spirit attacks just don't feel very martial to me. If anything they feel "Ki" based, which they seem to have done away with and swept under the Psionics carpet. So, it sounds like your design of the Champion would dance around the issue of being a Psionic class that pretends its a martial class. *shrug*
If I were designing this, I'd still carry an emphasis on the Champion's "fighting spirit" but I'd make him channel that spirit through weapon attacks. Stuff like this?
Break the Spirit – Champion 1 At-Will * Martial, Weapon, Psychic Standard Action – Melee Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Effect: Enemies within close burst 3 suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls and defenses for 1 round, or a -2 penalty if the target becomes bloodied as a result of this attack. Level 21: 2[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage.
Resonating Blow - Champion 1 Encounter * Martial, Weapon Standard Action – Melee Target: One creature
--Secondary Targets: Close Blast 3 Attack: Charisma vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Constitution modifier damage. Target is pushed up to 3 squares away and knocked prone.
--Secondary Attack: Constitution vs. Fort
--Hit: Target is knocked prone.
Then I'd focus the Standard of Heroes build on Constitution secondary and have it's control be based on drawing multiple foes near to it and then knocking them silly. Utilizing his esprit d'corps to empower his melee attacks with superlative force.
The Standard of Terror build would be Dexterity secondary and it's strategy would be based on keeping foes farther away while dogging specific targets. It would use its spirit to intimidate and confuse foes with AoE debuffs and psychic damage.
Spirit attacks just don't feel very martial to me. If anything they feel "Ki" based, which they seem to have done away with and swept under the Psionics carpet. So, it sounds like your design of the Champion would dance around the issue of being a Psionic class that pretends its a martial class. *shrug*
You're right about Ki being sucked up by Psionics, but that's sorta why we haven't seen a quality martial strikercontroller yet. (Not to mention why Wizards has neglected to create a martial strikercontroller even while every other power source is represented in all four roles.) If I had to say, I would say that this class is designed to walk the line that Monk should have walked. The line between power sources is not always perfectly clear. Paladin, for example, walks the line between Martial and Divine very well. I merely wish to do the same with Psionics. ^_^
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Originally Posted by Ziegander
Break the Spirit – Champion 1 At-Will * Martial, Weapon, Psychic Standard Action – Melee Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Effect: Enemies within close burst 3 suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls and defenses for 1 round, or a -2 penalty if the target becomes bloodied as a result of this attack. Level 21: 2[W] + Charisma modifier psychic damage.
I think I'll snag this one, with a little modification. I'd make it an encounter power and increase the effect range to Close burst equal to your charisma modifier.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
You're right about Ki being sucked up by Psionics, but that's sorta why we haven't seen a quality martial striker yet. (Not to mention why Wizards has neglected to create a martial striker even while every other power source is represented in all four roles.)
Controller, you mean. The Martial Strikers are some of the strongest ones in the game.
One big issue I have with your powers: too many are non-weapon, non-implement attack powers. Especially since they don't have some auto-scaling built into the power themselves, these powers are severely underpowered, and will lag in not only attack and damage, but also item synergy as you get to higher levels.
Also, this feels too psionic. The Martial source is mostly about using training and strength of will to do with a blade, bow, or shield what others need magic to attempt. The Ardent, Monk, and Battlemind all use the Ki-empowered warrior schtick quite well, IMO, and note that if the class could be described as "Martial + X," its listed power source is always the X, since they're relying on the X to boost their martial skill.
Controller, you mean. The Martial Strikers are some of the strongest ones in the game.
Yes, sorry. Controller I do mean.
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Originally Posted by Mando Knight
One big issue I have with your powers: too many are non-weapon, non-implement attack powers. Especially since they don't have some auto-scaling built into the power themselves, these powers are severely underpowered, and will lag in not only attack and damage, but also item synergy as you get to higher levels.
Also, this feels too psionic. The Martial source is mostly about using training and strength of will to do with a blade, bow, or shield what others need magic to attempt. The Ardent, Monk, and Battlemind all use the Ki-empowered warrior schtick quite well, IMO, and note that if the class could be described as "Martial + X," its listed power source is always the X, since they're relying on the X to boost their martial skill.
Since that is appearing to be the big complaint here I will most likely need to rework this. I'll be away for a couple days and I'll work on some new powers during that time to see what I can do about the overly Psionic style of this class.
Thanks all for the advice here, still working on rebuilding the Standards feature to see a more controller-y style. I'll be back shortly.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Right, so this is my first attempt at homebrewing for 4e, though I've done quite a bit for 3.5 over the years. I haven't collected the powers for the class yet, but I wanted to post this now and see if I'm heading in the right direction or not. I'll post some powers once I have them presentable. Edit: I've put up a handfull of powers and I made room in a few posts for feats and paragon paths. I'll add more as I complete it.
Champion
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Champion Martial Controller “No death shall befall those who follow my banner, for I am mighty, and thou art not.” Role: Controller. You use a spiritual connection to combat to manipulate swaths of the battlefield. You favor Leader or Striker as a secondary role. Power Source: Martial. You have trained in combat and learned to true difficulties of leading a battle. You are the scourge of the field, travelling about at will through the conflict, and you bring your warrior’s spirit to bear against those that would oppose you. Key Abilities: Charisma, Dexterity, Constitution Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Scale Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Military Melee, Simple Ranged Bonus to Defense: +1 Fort, +1 Will Hit Points @ 1st Level: 13 + Constitution Score Hit Points gained at each level: 5 Healing Surges Per Day: 6 + Constitution Modifier Trained Skills: From the skills below, choose three trained skills at 1st level:
Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis) Build Options: Warblade Champion, Windwrath Champion Class Features: Standard of the Champion (Terror or Heroic), Warrior’s Spirit, Warrior’s Fever
The battlefield is a place where glory is won and lost and no one knows the glory of battle quite like the champion. The champion is a warrior who embodies conflict on a fundamental level. They lead men into battle and turn the tide of battles. Though they do not last on the front lines alone, they can affect entire legions of enemies with their skills and their warrior’s spirit. They know that battles are won, not only though strength of arms, but strength of will. They can slay and demoralize groups of enemies, granting themselves or allies bonuses in combat.
Whether they were trained to be commanders of the battlefield or thrust into battle after battle alongside weary soldiers, the champion has learned first hand how battles feel when in the middle of it all. They have felt the adrenaline push them further than ever before and yet the strange calm of a life or death struggle; the scream of conflict and the odd silence of combat. Those who survive walk away with a power unleashed within them they know only other warriors can understand.
Champions can wade through battle disorienting and injuring groups of foes with whirling weapons or they can send the energy of their spirit out among their foes and bring them to their knees, ripe for the slaying.
Champion Class Features: Champions have the following class features.
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Standard of the Champion: Champions are icons on the battlefield. Foes quake from their presence and allies find strength in their passing. Champions select one of the following features at 1st level: Standard of Terror: When you are not bloodied and are in combat, you deal extra psychic damage equal to your charisma modifier against bloodied creatures. Standard of Heroes: When you are not bloodied and are in combat, you gain a morale bonus to attack rolls using martial powers equal to your charisma modifier.
Warrior’s Spirit: You automatically gain the Warrior’s Spirit at-will power.
Warrior’s Fever: When you are bloodied in combat you may make an extra minor action on your turn. This action must be used to sustain a Champion power.
Creating a Champion Warblade Champion:
As a Warblade Champion, you are a symbol of strength to your allies. You wade through combat alongside other warriors and deal death across the field personally. Suggested Class Feature: Standard of Heroes Windwrath Champion:
As a Windwrath Champion, you strike fear into the hearts of any who would oppose you. You use your warrior’s spirit as an advantage in combat and strike at groups of enemies from behind other combatants. Suggested Class Feature: Standard of Terror
Warrior’s Spirit – Champion Class Feature At-Will * Martial, Psychic Standard Action – Area burst 1 within 10 squares Target: Each creature within the burst Attack: Charisma vs. Will Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and you push the target(s) a number of squares away from you equal to your Charisma modifier. Level 21: 2d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage.
I like the idea and I have a few things to say about it to.
First of all I think that having scale from the begining is a little much. One of the main things about a controller is that they are great offensivly but poorer defensivly so I would go with just chainmail at the start. (If someone really wanted scale, with a con secondary stat it wouldn't be to difficult)
Standard of the Champion: I really like these more or less and I agree that they should be more controller like, but also I think that the two types (Terror and Heroes) should key off of two different abilities. One Dex and the other Con. This is how most other classes make use of choosing between two different seconday abilities. Example; the ardent's two different mantles, one keys of the Wis mod and the other the Con mod.
Also I like the idea of having your powers be psychic damage. It works because psychic damage is written as simply being "effects that assault the mind". Other classes do this with magic or mental power but the champion does it through simple awesome. The powers seem to be (generally) split between weapon attacks and psychic attacks so any attacks that do psychic damage should have the psychic keyword and attack that do weapon damage should have the weapon keyword. Also You should be adding the charm and fear keywords to powers. For example your Spirited Shout, Gaze of Battle Lust and Ziegander's Crushing the Spirit should have the fear keyword as the fluff indicates they are about scaring the enemy and any power about luring the enemy into doing something because of the champion's heroic nature should be charm. I also agree that any power that does not have the weapon keyword should have the implement keyword. at the class description you should put (Implements: weapons with which you have proficiency). Just so you know when using a weapon as an implement you add the enhancement bonus to the attack and damage roll but do not add the proficiency bonusto the attack roll
Also I find the Warrior’s Spirit class feature to be a little powerful. If it was a regular at-will power like the others it would be fine but since it is a class feature that everyone has it should be changed. I suggest one of two ways: 1. keep it the same but change the hit entry too just push the target and do no damage (or very little, like Cha mod little) or 2. make it into an encounter power.
Also because the fluff of the class is about using the Champion's battle spirit against his enemies, a lot of your bursts and blasts should target enemies only. For example your Gaze of Battle Lust power. It would not hurt your allies by looking at them as they are your allies and your gaze directed just at your enemies.
To put a lot of what I have been saying into perspective I will show you how Gaze of Battle Lust would look if you do everything I have written
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Gaze of Battle Lust - Champion 1
You set your will upon a group of enemies and your unflinching gaze unsettles them.
At Will * Martial, Psychic, Fear, Implement
Standard Action - Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Charisma vs Will
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier Psychic damage
Level 21: 2d8 + Charisma modifier Psychic damage.
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I am a:
Spoiler
Lawful Neutral
Human Fighter
Strength-17
Dexterity-14
Constitution-16
Intelligence-12
Wisdom-13
Charisma-12
Standard of the Champion: Champions are icons on the battlefield. Foes quake from their presence and allies find strength in their passing. Champions select one of the following features at 1st level: Standard of Terror: When you are not bloodied and are in combat, you deal extra psychic damage equal to your charisma modifier against bloodied creatures. Standard of Heroes: When you are not bloodied and are in combat, you gain a morale bonus to attack rolls using martial powers equal to your charisma modifier.
OK, I gotta say, I see what you're trying to do here, but the Standard of Heroes is horrifically overpowered right now. Make it a flat +1 (or maybe, MAYBE a +2, but you'd have to slap another restriction on it, like "must be adjacent to at least two enemies" or something) and we'd be in business. Also, morale bonuses no longer exist . . . this would probably be untyped. Just throw a line about it being morale-based in the fluff text. Standard of Terror I feel less strongly about, and would probably be OK for the more striker-leaning class feature (though I'd probably make it a secondary stat rather than your primary stat).
Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
When you ask a question, and I respond with something about the Truenamer, it might be because I think it's the best answer. More likely, though, is that I'm saying it because no one else will.
Alright, after looking everything over I think that everyone has been right about this class feeling too Psionic. KingFlameHawk, I'm going to take your advice and use fear and implement with weapons as implements. That should allow the class to continue to use spirit attacks without having to physically strike for each attack.
I'm also going to increase the number of weapon attacks vs spirit attacks (about 70% weapon, 30 % spirit).
I've also added and reworked a few powers and the Standard of the Champion features to work more how I've seen controllers now that I've done some more research. I have to admit, controller is one of the most difficult roles to work with. I really picked a challenge here. ^_^
Any further critique is always appreciated, thanks guys!
BTW, I'm going to stick with what I did for Ziegander and name any powers that are suggested or created by my fellow playgrounders after the suggester/creator. If you don't want to have your sn attached to a power, plz let me know.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Standard of the Champion: Champions are icons on the battlefield. Foes quake from their presence and allies find strength in their passing. Champions select one of the following features at 1st level:
Standard of Terror: When you are not bloodied, if you used a Martial weapon or implement power on your turn you may create a zone in a burst 2 centering on you. Enemies who take damage in that zone from martial powers take additional psychic damage equal to your Constitution modifier.
Standard of Heroes: When you are not bloodied, if you used a Martial weapon or implement power on your turn you may create a zone in a burst centering on you equal to your Dexterity modifier. Enemies in the zone treat it as difficult terrain when moving towards you or your allies.
As they are written, you could interpret Standard of Heroes as permitting you to create infinite bursts as long as you aren't bloodied that last forever. Clearly that is not what you want to happen in one of your encounters, as At-Will Difficult Terrain (only for enemies!) severely hinders their movements on levels that makes a Wizard jealous. A Wizard!
Now I think Wizards are already a bit silly in that regard. I'd suggest the following:
Standard of Terror: While you are not bloodied and after you hit with a power that has the martial keyword, you gain an Aura 2 that lasts until the start of your next turn. Enemies in your Aura take damage equal to your Constitution modifier when they are hit with a power that has the martial keyword.
Standard of Heroes: While you are not bloodied and after you hit with a power that has the martial keyword, you gain an Aura 2 that lasts until the start of your next turn. Enemies treat squares in the zone as Difficult Terrain when moving towards you or your allies.
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Considerations here are whether to use a Burst or an Aura, although I admit I haven't quite grasped whether an aura has additional effects. If it doesn't, it may be a more elegant way of doing this; it's certainly not unheard of considering the Wizard power Conduit of Ice centering a zone on a target that moves along! The imposition "until the start of your next turn" forces a player to consistently keep hitting to enforce the zone/aura.
Of note is that it means the Champion CANNOT take advantage of his Standard of Terror unless he spends an Action Point or is granted attacks by a Leader of some sort. You may adjust that to End of next turn if you fear it may be underwhelming.
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Warrior’s Fever: When you are bloodied in combat you may make an extra minor action on your turn. This action must be used to sustain a Champion power.
I'd rewrite this to be worded a bit more elegantly and less ambigious:
Warrior's Fever: While you are bloodied, you may sustain a Champion power that requires a Minor Action to sustain it as a Free Action. You may sustain a power in this way only once per turn.
He is also touches on my new concern, which is that Standard of Terror is still more of a Leader power than a controller one. It doesn't help you control enemies, instead it buffs your allies' damage. Otherwise, the changes you've made to powers and things have definitely steered into a much better direction for martial controller.
One final point: You still need to be using the primary/secondary ability scores to better effect. Basically, the primary score should almost always, like 95% of the time always, modify the attack roll of your powers. Secondary effects, even sometimes including damage, are to be modified by your secondary ability score.
Furthermore, there should be some stuff happening based on which Standard you chose. For example, a power might bestow a -2 penalty to damage on targets hit, and offer the Standard of Heroes benefit that the penalty becomes equal to your Constitution modifier instead. That sort of thing should be happening on some of the Champion's powers.
Further observation of the written powers teaches me that "Martial attack power" is a perfectly suitable replacement for "Power that has the martial keyword". As such, they become this instead:
Standard of Terror: While you are not bloodied and after you hit with a Martial attack power, you gain an Aura 2 that lasts until the start of your next turn. Enemies in your Aura take damage equal to your Constitution modifier when they are hit with a Martial attack power.
Standard of Heroes: While you are not bloodied and after you hit with a Martial attack power, you gain an Aura 2 that lasts until the start of your next turn. Enemies treat squares in the zone as Difficult Terrain when moving towards you or your allies.
As for Standard of Terror itself, I'm not ready to suggest a mechanical change to it: while I agree it has more the makings of a Leader feature, it strikes me that an Aura 2 effect that is basically At-Will is rather powerful. I'd carefully suggest a -1 penalty to attack rolls, which is already very good on a feature, and more in line with what a Controller wants to do.
Coupled with the richness of Psychic keywords, and Psychic Lock may turn the Champion into a rather good Psychic Controller. Of course, I've only briefly glanced over the Powers for now.
What immediately jumps out to me is the Encounter that creates a Burst 5 of Difficult Terrain until the End of the Encounter. This is seriously powerful and I'd strongly urge you reconsider a power of this magnitude at level 1 Encounter.
Typically, Encounter effects end at the end of your next turn. A Sustain Minor sounds like it'd be too good already. Burst 5? That's icing on the cake.
I really like the rewording of the standards, tyvm. Also, what about giving vulnerability psychic equal to con mod rather than outright extra damage?
In regards to the powers and secondary abilities, I suppose I'm not sure how to accomplish that properly. I agree it needs it though. Incidentally, would difficult terrain until end of encounter work as a daily, because I like how that power works, but it is strong. Maybe even higher level, if need be.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
I really like the rewording of the standards, tyvm. Also, what about giving vulnerability psychic equal to con mod rather than outright extra damage?
Still leader-y. I'll try to think of a suggestion for you, I'm just at a loss right now.
Quote:
Incidentally, would difficult terrain until end of encounter work as a daily, because I like how that power works, but it is strong. Maybe even higher level, if need be.
As a daily it should work, I think. Maybe not at 1st level, but as a daily that effect seems okay.
This might be too powerful but what about changing Standard of Terror to Standard of Terror
Once per encounter when you are not bloodied, You may slide 1 oppenent you hit with a martial power a number of squares equal to your constitution modifier.
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Still leader-y. I'll try to think of a suggestion for you, I'm just at a loss right now.
Why not just flip the two? Standard of Terror makes it harder for your enemies to get close to you...they're afraid.
By contrast, Standard of Heroes does the same thing...but it makes enemies less able to flee, giving them difficult terrain if they're moving away from an ally.
The former is controller on a "stay away from this area" level. It works best for protecting the squishy back lines.
The latter becomes a "stay IN this area" effect, keeping your enemies close to your melee characters.
I'll again point out that the standards as they are written now permit you to create infinite zones of party-friendly Difficult Terrain, which is undesirable.
Oh, I agree, and I'm going to reword them to be like what you said, I'm just hammering out what they should actually do before I reword them, since this is like the fifth revision of the standards.
Also, isn't granting vulnerability a status effect, thus a controller schtick? I'm not sure, but the overlap between leader and controller seems really heavy now that I'm pulling it apart. I've been running with contollers having AoE's and status effects. They alter the battlefield so that enemies can't move like they want and they hamper them directly either through damage or debilitating effects. Perhaps I'm missing something that separates the two groups.
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Alright!
Another update with several new powers that will finish the level 1 and 2 powers. I've also added two class specific feats and three more summaries of proposed paragon paths. As always, thanks to any and all who read and critique! ^_^
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Eladrin War-Skald avi by Vrythas Thanks so much! ^_^
Just thought up an idea for a power you can use if you want:
On Your Knees - Champion ?
Daily * Martial, Implement, Psychic, Fear Standard Action - Close burst 2 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Charisma vs Will Hit: Target is knocked prone and cannot move (save ends) Miss: Target is slowed till end of your next turn
I don't know what level this power should be so others are welcome to help.
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I am a:
Spoiler
Lawful Neutral
Human Fighter
Strength-17
Dexterity-14
Constitution-16
Intelligence-12
Wisdom-13
Charisma-12
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Champion [4e Martial Controller] (WiP/PEACH)
