Walking Dead- Season Two (Probably will be spoilers)

[Reverent-One]

You're trying to continue an over two month old conversation? Really? Let it rest, man.

[Tyndmyr]

Er, I didn't restart the thread. And, discussing past episodes is pretty much what this thread is for. If you're no longer interested, that's fine, but certainly the resumption of conversation following additional episodes is quite normal.

[the humanity]

I see a massive fight coming, those guys probably were raiding the survivors they found.

[Reverent-One]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

Er, I didn't restart the thread. And, discussing past episodes is pretty much what this thread is for. If you're no longer interested, that's fine, but certainly the resumption of conversation following additional episodes is quite normal.

I was referring to the "Was Shane opening the barn morally justified?" conversation specifically, not general discussion of the show.

I see a massive fight coming, those guys probably were raiding the survivors they found.

Yeah, they had scenes from the next episode during Comic Book Men, and let's just say Rick and friends won't be able to leave the bar for a while.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Reverent-One

I was referring to the "Was Shane opening the barn morally justified?" conversation specifically, not general discussion of the show.

There was no further episodes to discuss for a coupla months. Suspending conversation was reasonable. Now that there is new information to discuss, doing so in light of previous discussion is also reasonable. I don't see the problem.

[Reverent-One]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

There was no further episodes to discuss for a coupla months. Suspending conversation was reasonable. Now that there is new information to discuss, doing so in light of previous discussion is also reasonable. I don't see the problem.

There was no reason to suspend that conversation since there were no new episodes because the relevant information was already there, and even if there wasn't, there was no new relevant information in the new episode.

[Mathis]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

There was no further episodes to discuss for a coupla months. Suspending conversation was reasonable. Now that there is new information to discuss, doing so in light of previous discussion is also reasonable. I don't see the problem.

I'll bite. What new information are you referring to?

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Mathis

I'll bite. What new information are you referring to?

For one, explicit statements from some of the survivors that they felt it was dangerous. Now, even if YOU don't think it's dangerous, it's bad tactics for Shane to make the group feel like he's endangering them.

For another, there was the opening sequence in which they clearly had missed one of the zombies, and as a result, almost lost a survivor. Was a fairly messy fight. This establishes that the clean-up was not handled fairly well/safely. The only way it could really have been worse is if people actually died.

[Joxer t' Mighty]

Lori...

Ok, what the HELL is wrong with that woman? They went to go get Hershell and bring him back. Why does someone need to go bring them back? They're already planning on coming back!!

And calling the Redneckinator selfish?

Her characterization is getting more and more agonizing by the episode, and now we have to waste even MORE time bringing her back to health. Crash probably made her lose the baby, all in the name of drama.

Since the zombie was only hit, not beheaded, I hope it crawls its way over and has some Idiot Sushi.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Joxer t' Mighty

Lori...

Ok, what the HELL is wrong with that woman? They went to go get Hershell and bring him back. Why does someone need to go bring them back? They're already planning on coming back!!

Yes, she is dumb. Her reaction was rather pointless.

Also, going alone and not watching the road while you drive...even more dumb. Followed by a wild overreaction. It didn't even hit the window on her side of the car! She could have been just fine by just...continuing to drive.

And calling the Redneckinator selfish?

No doubt. He's one of the redeeming chars. He's practical, and usually does things what need to be done, crappy or not. Basically nobody has done more than he has.

Lori's a crazy person at this point.

Her characterization is getting more and more agonizing by the episode, and now we have to waste even MORE time bringing her back to health. Crash probably made her lose the baby, all in the name of drama.

Since the zombie was only hit, not beheaded, I hope it crawls its way over and has some Idiot Sushi.

Unlikely, but only for plot reasons...they gotta keep up the Drama! for as long as possible. I really do wish she'd die off, but I see that as fairly unlikely at this point.

[Mathis]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

For one, explicit statements from some of the survivors that they felt it was dangerous. Now, even if YOU don't think it's dangerous, it's bad tactics for Shane to make the group feel like he's endangering them.

Yupp, we can agree to this. I don't really see what you're trying to discuss here though.

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

For another, there was the opening sequence in which they clearly had missed one of the zombies, and as a result, almost lost a survivor. Was a fairly messy fight. This establishes that the clean-up was not handled fairly well/safely. The only way it could really have been worse is if people actually died.

This clearly has absolutely nothing to do with what we've been discussing previously. I'll indulge you anyway, if you watch the scene again you'll see that they try to stop her from going over to the dead body but they realize it's her mother and sort of decide there and then to let her grieve without physically restraining her. I think you have to understand that the girl just watched her mother get shot to pieces. It doesn't matter what YOU think she saw, only what actually happened. Most people would empathize with such a situation and find it hard not to let her grieve.

[Anderlith]

I've said it before & I'll say it again. I hate Lori. Why does anyone need to go & get Rick & Glen? They weren't even gone that long. Then calling Daryl selfish because he wouldn't risk his life to find her husband, who is perfectly capable of looking after himself? I really really hate her. I hope she is eaten-slowly-while alive, I know she won't... just like Shane won't leave the group. The writers are just wanting to manufacture drama instead of letting the story unfold dramatically.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Mathis

This clearly has absolutely nothing to do with what we've been discussing previously. I'll indulge you anyway, if you watch the scene again you'll see that they try to stop her from going over to the dead body but they realize it's her mother and sort of decide there and then to let her grieve without physically restraining her. I think you have to understand that the girl just watched her mother get shot to pieces. It doesn't matter what YOU think she saw, only what actually happened. Most people would empathize with such a situation and find it hard not to let her grieve.

It's not that letting her grieve is a problem, it's that they failed to actually kill the zombie first. That's the problem.

[Mathis]

I believe we can exscuse them that in the chaos, there were after all a lot of people shooting. Don't see what this adds to the discussion though so Im backing out, no use beating a dead horse.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Mathis

I believe we can exscuse them that in the chaos, there were after all a lot of people shooting. Don't see what this adds to the discussion though so Im backing out, no use beating a dead horse.

It merely means that Shane's solution of "toss the doors open, and let all the zombies out" was not a particularly good one.

Also, to "the humanity", I share your assessment of the other survivors. People trying to make friends don't act as they did. They're almost certainly out to loot, steal, etc.

[Silverraptor]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

It merely means that Shane's solution of "toss the doors open, and let all the zombies out" was not a particularly good one.

Also, to "the humanity", I share your assessment of the other survivors. People trying to make friends don't act as they did. They're almost certainly out to loot, steal, etc.

I was suspicious of them as well. But while I was trying to find out how to lead them away, Rick shoots them which made me do a double take.

[Mathis]

Originally Posted by Silverraptor

I was suspicious of them as well. But while I was trying to find out how to lead them away, Rick shoots them which made me do a double take.

I think that whole scene was great. From the moment they entered the bar to the bloody end it had a tense, awkward feeling to it and I was squirming in my couch watching it. Great acting from the two bad guys I think, they were creepy right from the start. Gave me the feeling it could only end one way, with at the least two people dead or dying. They were also a good way of forcing the group to move on now that they know someone will be looking for them and their friends.

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by Mathis

I think that whole scene was great. From the moment they entered the bar to the bloody end it had a tense, awkward feeling to it and I was squirming in my couch watching it. Great acting from the two bad guys I think, they were creepy right from the start. Gave me the feeling it could only end one way, with at the least two people dead or dying. They were also a good way of forcing the group to move on now that they know someone will be looking for them and their friends.

Yup, that scene was one of the few good scenes in a long time. You just know something is wrong, but then again, this is zombie-apocalypse land so maybe you are mista-*BANG BANG BANG...BANG*..nope never mind. Awesome.

Also, the new writers are pretty cliche, so you just know that a heavily damaged zombie is going to crawl back to the car, but it will have trouble getting in due to lack of use of both legs and one arm (you heard it here, two legs and one arm out of commission). Idio..Lori will be hanging upside down unconscious in her seatbelt, and will come to just in time to have to struggle to reach her gun, which will be suitably out of reach. At the last second, she will get the gun and cap the zombie, but will be unable to leave the car, being trapped and injured. Cue another zombie shuffling in from nearby, who doesn't seem to zero in on her right off the bat. In the meantime, the bar crew get stuck in town dealing with other looters/zombies, all as her precious seconds/blood tick/drip away!!! DunDunDUn...

[Zen Monkey]

I'm enjoying the continued Shane development. He's gone from goofy beta cop to something of a Richard Riddick style villain-on-our-side for the group. He seems to have crossed a line where he no longer has hope of anything good happening, and is either pushing the group to accept that view and/or pursuing his own death through continued self-destructive acts.

Lori, on the other hand, seems to be self-destructive purely out of some inability to think more than one or two selfish steps ahead. She's being pigeon-holed as some cliche 'whiny irrational female' that the group probably doesn't need. If you're going require a cliched hollywood female role, you could play up the maternal aspects and have her be the voice of compassion instead of whatever she's doing now.

Wait a minute... Lori's player is the annoyed girlfriend of the alpha PC, T-Dog's player just can't make it to most of the game sessions, and Daryl is clearly a character min-max'ed for the genre who got more useful skills by taking social flaws.

[Joxer t' Mighty]

Originally Posted by Zen Monkey

Wait a minute... Lori's player is the annoyed girlfriend of the alpha PC, T-Dog's player just can't make it to most of the game sessions, and Daryl is clearly a character min-max'ed for the genre who got more useful skills by taking social flaws.

*guffaws and claps*

[Reverent-One]

Regarding Lori this episode:
Anyone else get the feeling that the scene with the sick daughter in bed right before Lori feels the need for someone to go after Rick was meant to show that what's-her-name was getting suddenly worse? Because that's about the only way her actions would make sense to me. Unfortunately, the scene didn't get that across to me, and to make matters worse, I don't think they'd even showed Rick and Glen getting to Herschel yet, which really makes Lori's action unnecessary since they just hadn't had time yet.

Oh well, a decent episode otherwise. A bit slow, but that's fits pretty well given what just happened last episode. I like that Dale's sharing his suspicions about Shane, needs to be done to push us towards an eventual confrontation. And that was a solid ending, you knew it was going to go badly, but didn't know exactly how.

[leafman]

Originally Posted by Reverent-One

Regarding Lori this episode:
Anyone else get the feeling that the scene with the sick daughter in bed right before Lori feels the need for someone to go after Rick was meant to show that what's-her-name was getting suddenly worse? Because that's about the only way her actions would make sense to me. Unfortunately, the scene didn't get that across to me, and to make matters worse, I don't think they'd even showed Rick and Glen getting to Herschel yet, which really makes Lori's action unnecessary since they just hadn't had time yet.

All that scene served to show me was that, somehow the girl had been infected with the zombie virus. She had a high fever and accelerated pulse, the exact symptoms exibited by people who have been bit by a zombie prior to "death".

[Gamerlord]

Originally Posted by leafman

All that scene served to show me was that, somehow the girl had been infected with the zombie virus. She had a high fever and accelerated pulse, the exact symptoms exibited by people who have been bit by a zombie prior to "death".

I'm still wondering why they didn't check her for a bite mark.

[Reverent-One]

Originally Posted by leafman

All that scene served to show me was that, somehow the girl had been infected with the zombie virus. She had a high fever and accelerated pulse, the exact symptoms exibited by people who have been bit by a zombie prior to "death".

I was thinking that even without that scene.

[Fawkes]

Originally Posted by Gamerlord

I'm still wondering why they didn't check her for a bite mark.

I thought they did, right after they pulled her away.

[Silverraptor]

Wait, is this the same girl? The girl who ran crying to her shot up mother who then turned out somehow did not get shot in the head and somehow decided to play dead until the next unfortunate soul come to check if she was dead and then try to bite girl? That girl? I thought it was a different girl for both, but then again I'm terrible with the farmer girls except the one who's after the asian guy.

And if she is turning into a zombie, there is nooooooo way she got any bite marks. I tell you, I was watching that wrestling scene quite clearly with wide eyes thinking, "Bite her. Bite her. Bite her. Bite her. Bite her. Bite her. Dammit! She wasn't bitten!" That mouth was wide open the entire time and didn't close unless it made a noise and was only trying to bite at the girl's throat/face despite the fact that it had both her arms in its grasp.

So if she does indeed turn into a zombie, does this mean there is a touch strain that almost everyone is immune to except for some reeeeeally unfortunate souls?

[Joxer t' Mighty]

It's quite possible the saliva of dear ole mam was sprayed onto her in some fashion, perhaps into her mouth.

[Silverraptor]

Originally Posted by Joxer t' Mighty

It's quite possible the saliva of dear ole mam was sprayed onto her in some fashion, perhaps into her mouth.

Ewwww.

[eyeofsaulot]

So the Philly guys, despite the fact that (as previews for the next episode would imply) back-up is on the way, decide to kill Rick, Glenn, and Hershel? Either they were being overly confident OR the rest of their group is not like them.

Let me explain the latter:
Maybe the Philly guys have done this kind of thing before (the dead cop comment, perhaps?). If they can't get anything out of survivors that they come across while separate from their group, they kill them, steal whatever equipment they've got, and lie to their group about the encountered survivors being hostile.

I hope this is the case, so that the reasoning behind the Philly guys' decision to kill them wouldn't just be that they were being idiotic. And of course, since there's going to be a huge conflict because two of the other group's men were just killed, I feel the latter would be a lot more interesting, because it would create many more moral predicaments for Rick & co. over fighting this other group than if they were just a band of murderous people.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Silverraptor

I was suspicious of them as well. But while I was trying to find out how to lead them away, Rick shoots them which made me do a double take.

Yeah. I didn't actually expect that to happen then. Figured it was a time for trickery and what not, likely ending badly. This was a pretty solid scene for Rick. He's actually decisive, very competent, and solves the problem that clearly, neither of the others was going to.

Of course, there's still the issue of the rest of their group, but this is a GOOD problem, narratively. It makes sense.

Originally Posted by Zen Monkey

Wait a minute... Lori's player is the annoyed girlfriend of the alpha PC, T-Dog's player just can't make it to most of the game sessions, and Daryl is clearly a character min-max'ed for the genre who got more useful skills by taking social flaws.

Lol, I admit, my buds and I do frequently talk about the show as if it were a roleplaying game. "Crap, he just rolled a one" is a common phrase.

Originally Posted by Reverent-One

Regarding Lori this episode:
Anyone else get the feeling that the scene with the sick daughter in bed right before Lori feels the need for someone to go after Rick was meant to show that what's-her-name was getting suddenly worse? Because that's about the only way her actions would make sense to me. Unfortunately, the scene didn't get that across to me, and to make matters worse, I don't think they'd even showed Rick and Glen getting to Herschel yet, which really makes Lori's action unnecessary since they just hadn't had time yet.

That might be what they intended, but if so, they certainly failed to portray it well...at a minimum, it's a black mark against the writers for failing to show motivation.

As it is, I can't really see what she was hoping to accomplish by her actions.

Originally Posted by Gamerlord

I'm still wondering why they didn't check her for a bite mark.

I have absolutely no idea. Seriously, checking for bite marks should be pretty basic at this point.

Originally Posted by eyeofsaulot

So the Philly guys, despite the fact that (as previews for the next episode would imply) back-up is on the way, decide to kill Rick, Glenn, and Hershel? Either they were being overly confident OR the rest of their group is not like them.

Let me explain the latter:
Maybe the Philly guys have done this kind of thing before (the dead cop comment, perhaps?). If they can't get anything out of survivors that they come across while separate from their group, they kill them, steal whatever equipment they've got, and lie to their group about the encountered survivors being hostile.

I hope this is the case, so that the reasoning behind the Philly guys' decision to kill them wouldn't just be that they were being idiotic. And of course, since there's going to be a huge conflict because two of the other group's men were just killed, I feel the latter would be a lot more interesting, because it would create many more moral predicaments for Rick & co. over fighting this other group than if they were just a band of murderous people.

I saw it as the entire philly group being predatory, and preying on other survivors. They were not specifically interested in Rick and company...but rather, in pressuring them for the location of the party, and it's supplies and what not. They would probably be willing to kill one or more of them to get that, and that's where I saw that going.