The first post is still linked, so I won't be summarizing it.
The second post appeared in a separate thread back from when the comic began, as I recall one of the posters was surprised that any of the order was evil, and the Giant said he needed to have some variation in the otherwise good party to generate conflict.
The third post was in a Vaarsuvius Alignment thread, where someone had linked that post to prove Vaarsuvius was good, and the Giant just said "Not everything posted in the forums should necessarily be considered canon." He neither confirmed or denied V's gender, but it was a direct response to the second post.
I am assuming the V's alignment thread eventually got whisked into the secret land of the moderators for review, so we cannot access it. Not sure why the second post is unavailable :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herpestidae
Just do this (not linking anything)
V is True Neutral! (08/17/2011; #801) (Good in Comic 11, as he was sickened by Unholy Blight)
I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with being used to prove something the Giant can no longer be shown to have said, plus that sets up a terrible precedent...
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I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with being used to prove something the Giant can no longer be shown to have said, plus that sets up a terrible precedent...
I agree. I think one important principle of the index should be that we do not add to the Giant's words here. The summaries are simply things you can take a quick glance at in order to find an exact quote. They are not for adding to the Giant's comment in any way (however true and valid the addition might be). This is simply a resource. Forumgoers can do their own reasoning about whether V was neutral early in the comic without the index doing their reasoning for them.
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V is True Neutral! (08/17/2011; #801) (Good in Comic 11, as he was sickened by Unholy Blight)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Giant
Huh. Well, I guess I did say it. Lucky for me, my comments on the message board aren't canon and I'm allowed to change my mind later. Nyah nyah.
And no, I can't prove he said it. However, please don't make any claims that indicate that Vaarsuvius has ever been Good in the comic's internal continuity. The value of documenting, "Rich used to hold a different view and it was this" is currently undefended, after all.
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Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
No. They aren't accurate posts; I only mentioned them on that thread to help get a very basic idea of what the timeline was. There were some differences when War and XPs came out. Among other things, Shojo's age has changed. Mainly I just wanted to get the point across that Soon and Shojo's father weren't in charge of the Sapphire Guard for very long compared to Shojo.
If we include these in the first post, it will confuse people.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Oni
Well you've got two options - you can either wait for life to throw you a bone, or you can make your own by tearing it out of Life's quivering body, with your bare teeth and nails in a frenzied bloodied act of cannibalism.
Oh, right. I remember that now. I think that wasn't supposed to be a total rejection, more like indecisiveness at that moment. . . I think I meant to consider it further and forgot about it. Oops.
Generally I try not to outright reject stuff right out of the gate. . . I want to have some discussion on things, and not run this thread like it is entirely my own show.
That said, there have been lots of threads lately about voting for OOTS in some poll or another, so the quote is probably going to be useful in the index.
This reminds me though, I'd like to come up with some guidelines for what should be or should not be included in the index, and maybe have people vote on that. What I've seen over the last few pages of this thread is people have different views of what the index should be and look like. I'll try to come up with some ideas and maybe we can discuss that so things are a bit clearer. . .
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I'd like to come up with some guidelines for what should be or should not be included in the index [...]
The point of including a particular item in the index is that that item adds to the greater good. On one side of the balance is the work involved in you putting that item in the index, plus the marginal extra time that people looking through the index for other things will have to spend moving past that item. On the other side of the balance is the usefulness of that item to people looking for it in the index.
Not to dismiss the work involved for you, but it pales in comparison to the benefit that any of the thousands of people who might look for an item in the index would gain. The extra time it adds for people looking for other things is relatively marginal. So my suggestion would be to include anything in the index that is likely to be useful to a nonzero number of people in the future.
I believe that if we can find or imagine a situation where pointing a user out to a given quote is a way to answer a question or correct a wrong statement presented, then that quote should be included.
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I believe that if we can find or imagine a situation where pointing a user out to a given quote is a way to answer a question or correct a wrong statement presented, then that quote should be included.
Yeah, the only quotes which I believe should be excluded are:
1) If the Quote can no longer be linked. if there is no direct evidence that Rich said it, then it is best to assume he didn't.
2) If the Quote is directly contradicted by another quote. If Rich has clairified his position then only the current position should be represented.
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I don't know if it's worth putting in the OP, but the Giant's post about Nale's wand can go for almost all accusations of Deus Ex Machina.
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
This reminds me though, I'd like to come up with some guidelines for what should be or should not be included in the index, and maybe have people vote on that. What I've seen over the last few pages of this thread is people have different views of what the index should be and look like. I'll try to come up with some ideas and maybe we can discuss that so things are a bit clearer. . .
Thus far, most of the indexed posts cover one these categories:
Background information not present in the comic (such as the Chronology & Timeline post)
Contested interpretation of the comic (historical evidence suggests any post about any character's alignment could fit here, but I'll go with Familicide as an example instead)
Implications, or lack thereof, from the art (Spell Colors)
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Rest in Peace:
Spoiler
Miko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
I think "immortalizing April Fools jokes" is outside the purpose of this index.
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Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
Alright guys, I'll try to get to the suggestions made sometime soon, but regarding the thread "rules", I'd like to put these to a vote.
Basically you vote for which rules for content you agree with and want to see followed in the thread. Please cast votes in bold for easy tallying. So you can cast your vote as follows (example):
a, b, d, e, f
In an attempt to support nuance of opinion some rules have subpoints. If you agree in general with a rule but not a subpoint, cast your vote as follows (example), with a minus sign for the subpoint you disagree with:
a -1, b, c - 3, d
If no subpoint is mentioned it will be assumed that you agree with the whole rule.
Here are the rules:
Spoiler
a) The quote / comment must still be accessible online. - 1. This includes the use of the internet wayback machine and other methods of accessing comments that may not still exist in the archive. - 2. This does not include second-hand sources, like "I remember Rich said this, but the thread does not exist anymore." Even if you are 100% certain Rich said that, if the quote is not demonstrable or provable it cannot be included. - 3. This does not include Rich's commentary in books or in any medium that cannot be legally accessed for free.
b) The Index is for collecting only quotes that have to do with the Order of the Stick comic or other fiction works by Rich Burlew. - 1. This excludes non-comic-related opinions, statements, etc. from Rich. So if he says "I like Italian food" or something like that, it is not to be included. - 2. This may include information tangentially related to the comic, like Rich's views on Dungeons and Dragons, book publishing, art design, etc. These quotes are still within the sphere of comic-related discussion. Uncertainty should be decided by thread poster consensus. - 3. This excludes GiTP forum rules, updates, or general information. That is for the admins and mods to publicize and spread word about, not this index.
c) The index is a forum tool, meant primarily to provide easy access to direct statements from the author for the purpose of forum discussion. Thus, while the index may be fun to read through on a whim, this is not its primary purpose or focus - it is a research aid more than it is a trivia collection.
d) If two quotes seem to contradict each other, only the quote that illustrates Rich's most recent and current opinion or position will be included. This is because of rule c).
e) Quotes that contain redundant information need not be included. This reduces clutter. The quote should only be included if it provides new information or clarity, or if it expounds upon information included in a prior comment.
f) The index-keeper (ThePhantasm) has the job of updating the index in keeping with thread-goer consensus. - 1. He may reorganize the index if deemed necessary, though all reorganizations can be reversed by majority vote. - 2. He may immediately add a comment to the index without any vote, discussion, or consensus required if the comment obviously is in accordance with these agreed rules. - 3. He may never fully "reject" a comment's inclusion, however, he may postpone its inclusion until further discussion (and, if the divide in opinion appears even, a vote) decides the matter. - 4. If a comment's inclusion is uncertain, a vote requires a clear majority. If there is a tie the comment will not be included. The majority must have at least 2 more votes than the minority. Remember, the purpose of the discussions and votes are to reach some measure of consensus, not division.
Voting will be open for a week, i.e. until 11:59 PM on April 7th (London Time). If less than 10 votes have been placed within that week, the voting may be extended.
My vote is
a, b, c, d, e, f
__________________ Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
I'm torn on d--I think the older, contradicted posts should be acknowledged, but I don't think they should be taking up space in the OP. Maybe someone can make a post containing all "rejected" comments.
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~R.I.P. Thog (possibly) and Durkon Thundershield (eventually)~
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
To the people that are objecting to the exclusion of book comments: I don't think we are allowed to directly publish contents from the books here, but even if we are, would you really want all of the commentaries from all of the books to be part of this thread?
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Awesome ninja wizard avatar by Dispozition
I would only want a few like "V's prophecy has been fulfilled" from DStP.
__________________ group hug! Hold Person.
~R.I.P. Thog (possibly) and Durkon Thundershield (eventually)~
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
I would only want a few like "V's prophecy has been fulfilled" from DStP.
Hmm, that might indeed be useful, but I assume that much of the stuff that is posted in the commentaries would easily be relevant enough to qualify for inclusion in this thread if it were posted on the forums. So then we would either have to significantly raise the threshold for inclusion (and remove much of what is currently in the first post) or use two standards for qualification.
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Awesome ninja wizard avatar by Dispozition
Well you've got two options - you can either wait for life to throw you a bone, or you can make your own by tearing it out of Life's quivering body, with your bare teeth and nails in a frenzied bloodied act of cannibalism.
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments
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