[Nexus] OOC 26: Handwavium half off!

[Zefir]

Shadowcaller if you want zefir is around in AMEN as you may see a few post above yours.

Hope Happy you don't mind that the thiefs appear on another place again, since I don't know if the people who find your char will chase after them.

[Slii Arhem]

Same here if you want Dawn to speak with Rocid, he has some vague backstory reasons for his evil that haven't come to light yet.

[Lord Magtok]

Originally Posted by C'nor

-And since it was pyschic, even if he'd used the antimagic spray he was given, A.P wouldn't have been-

Originally Posted by C'nor

-even if he'd used the antimagic spray he was given,-

Originally Posted by C'nor

-antimagic spray-

Originally Posted by C'nor

antimagic spray

I spent like, several paragraphs and a number of posts only a few weeks ago, going over why I think antimagic is ridiculous. I'm not going to repeat all of that, or ask why anyone in their right mind would own Bat-Wizard Repellant.

Instead I'm approach this from another angle: There are plenty of characters much less powerful than your own. Not all of them are mercs, and plenty aren't even combat-focused, but enough are that I don't think it's the power level of the character that's an issue. Rather, I think it's the lethality.

In my own experience, it's never the character with the most deadly and lethal tools who wins fights, it's usually the Batman. Whichever of the two is willing to use non-lethal attacks, who's willing to merely injure their opponents post by post, instead of throwing death strikes around with every attack. Nobody wants to see their PC taken down in a single volley of gunfire. It's no fun to just see your character go down like a punk (most of the time, anyway).

However, plenty are willing to see their favorite badass take a punch, wipe their bloody lip, and then swing right back at the other guy. If you shoot a guy with rubber bullets, he's probably going to feel it, and might groan in pain as he hurries to duck behind a table. If you fire heat-seeking laser harpoons at the same guy, something's bound to go wrong, because most folks don't like seeing PCs struck down like a smelly NPC would be.

[Morty]

What Magtok says is perfectly true. The more lethal the attack, the more likely it's to be negated outright.
On a related note - if, when designing your character's powers, abilities or equipment you find yourself thinking how to negate as many attempts at countering them as possible you should go back and start over.

[AmberVael]

(Link to said antimagic rant made a couple of weeks ago.)

[happyturtle]

Sugesstion: Have anti-x stuff treated as weaken-x. Instead of making it impossible to do x at all, it should just make it harder to do x, make x take longer to do, have x be more likely to fail with potentially bad consequences, and make x less effective when it does work. This can work whether x is magic, tech, teleporting, scrying, etc.

[C'nor]

First, I specifically didn't use the stuff, mostly because I get that antimagic is often OP, and thus interpreted the fact that it was a spray as meaning it generated a temporary field in the air until it dissipated enough to be ineffectual. Which was never actually stated when he was given it; I chose to view it in a way that made it less powerful than it might have been.

Second, he didn't start off with it. He was given it by another character. So I didn't choose for him to have the stuff in the first place. Yes, I suppose I could have had him say 'Sorry, I don't want that.', but there was no IC reason that he wouldn't take it, especially considering he'd been warned about mages less than twenty minutes before.

And, also, I brought out the fighter at full strength because I knew that the character I was going to be most likely to encounter (considering that we'd all agreed OOC that Tree Tennis would be worth watching) wouldn't die permanently, and was tough enough to last for a while. Had I been going up againt someone else, it would have been easy enough to say it was still damagged by the last crash, and thus the weapons systems didn't work.

[BladeofObliviom]

Originally Posted by happyturtle

Sugesstion: Have anti-x stuff treated as weaken-x. Instead of making it impossible to do x at all, it should just make it harder to do x, make x take longer to do, have x be more likely to fail with potentially bad consequences, and make x less effective when it does work. This can work whether x is magic, tech, teleporting, scrying, etc.

Actually, one of my characters gave it to him, and the stuff was basically this. It's something Jacques bought at the store, not an artifact.

Really, it's weak stuff, but every edge you can get...

[Earl of Purple]

Deadtime until after supper. Goodbye, guys.

[C'nor]

Originally Posted by happyturtle

Sugesstion: Have anti-x stuff treated as weaken-x. Instead of making it impossible to do x at all, it should just make it harder to do x, make x take longer to do, have x be more likely to fail with potentially bad consequences, and make x less effective when it does work. This can work whether x is magic, tech, teleporting, scrying, etc.

Hm. How does this fit in with dimension locks? I thought those were pretty specifically full antiteleportation wards, and only god-likes can break a strong one?

[happyturtle]

Dimension locks work as near-absolutes because most people want to teleport into their destination intact, and not with their liver left behind or the top layer of their skin arriving four inches away from them. So sure, you could force that teleport, but are you really sure you want to?

[C'nor]

In that case, it should probably be specified that forcing through one doesn't actaully break it after that attempt. Otherwise, you can simply teleport a big rock through and then pop in safely, which I don't think is the point of having one...

[happyturtle]

That'd be up to the player controlling the dimension lock. I guess I'm seeing the resist-x thing being sort of like static interference, that's there for everyone, rather than like a shield.

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by happyturtle

Sugesstion: Have anti-x stuff treated as weaken-x. Instead of making it impossible to do x at all, it should just make it harder to do x, make x take longer to do, have x be more likely to fail with potentially bad consequences, and make x less effective when it does work. This can work whether x is magic, tech, teleporting, scrying, etc.

After watching the Nanoha anime again, specifically the third season, here's another idea: Anti-Magic Fields make it harder to cast magic if you're inside, and they'll dissipate magic that enters them, but it's not instant. So, one way around it would be to, say, wrap a magic shell around your Magic Missile, so that the shell gets dissipated and not the Magic Missile. They work on spells, sure, but not your magic reserves, and can be gotten around simply by putting more energy into the spell. That should make it so they're somewhat effective- without becoming an 'I win' button.

[Rebonack]

I think the biggest issue with Anti-stuff fields is that they tred the line between offensive and defensive.

We work under a simple rule here. Defender wins. The defender gets to decide what happens to their PC.

An anti-magic field is often times treated as if it's the defender. What I mean is that the person who casts the field decides 'This makes it impossible for you to cast spells. Any spell you cast into it goes poof.'

I honestly think that's wrong.

It's up the player who's casting his spells to decide whether or not his PC can cast in the anti-magic field for whatever reason. Maybe magic works differently in their world? Maybe they draw on an internal power source? Maybe they don't feel like watching their PC become totally impotent?

Because let's face it. A lot of people make PCs with neat abilities because they want the PC to be able to do neat things. A field of vaguely magical doom that automatically tells someone that they can't do neat things anymore isn't much fun.

The only 'anti-' thing I don't have much issue with is the teleportation stuff. If someone makes a base-thread it's in their power to dictate what can and can't happen within reason. And if they have magic/tech that forces people to walk in through a door or climb in through a window then that's totally their choice.

[C'nor]

*Pokes Rotting Baron to The Nest*

*Pokes BR to Mallside*

[The Bushranger]

The answer to antimagic is, of course, to play a psychic....

*flees*

[ThirdEmperor]

Or create character who can do more than one thing. Seriously, someone needs to go around and teach a few of those pansy mages how to aim a firearm.

[BladeofObliviom]

Originally Posted by ThirdEmperor

Or create character who can do more than one thing. Seriously, someone needs to go around and teach a few of those pansy mages how to aim a firearm.

Actually, Cyrus carries around a crossbow for this very reason. He almost never uses it, but there it is.
My next most powerful character, Jakob, is a swordsman in addition to a wizard. Of course, he totally cheats by changing the shape of his sword around. You know you're screwed in a duel when your opponent's sword suddenly gets longer in time to stab you.

[horngeek]

*pokey BR to GLoG*

[The Bushranger]

*takes a break from arguing against idocy at Wiki to post*

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by The Bushranger

*takes a break from arguing against idocy at Wiki to post*

Oooh. What's happening?

[Slii Arhem]

*Pokes TE to MaGLoG.*

[Darklord Bright]

I actually had a character once who was a mage that made an effort to work out in the morning before he studied. He would often express frustration that mages didn't even spend half an hour or even ten minutes to get some muscle mass as opposed to having the strength of a schoolgirl. So as a result, he ended up being a muscular fire-shooting mage who was just as deadly in a straight-up brawl as a magic fight - and it made perfect sense.

But yeah, anti-magic and anti-tech stuff is silly, since most mages and inventors tend to be pretty much useless without their powers. It's also why I think it's a good idea to determine in PMs who should win the fight beforehand, so there's no random and never-ending escalation instead of an interesting fight to read.

[Kris on a Stick]

Originally Posted by ThirdEmperor

Or create character who can do more than one thing. Seriously, someone needs to go around and teach a few of those pansy mages how to aim a firearm.

"Call me a pansy again. Go on, try it."

[Reinholdt]

*gets suited up in full body armor*
*finds a bunker a hundred miles deep*
*fills with death traps, guards, and Batman*
Pansy.

*throws a spider in front of the front door for good measure*

[The Bushranger]

Originally Posted by horngeek

Oooh. What's happening?

Claims that "See Also" is original research...

[Moofin Bard]

*pokes BR to HALO*

[Beans]

*pokes Moofin to Random Plots*

[Wolfbane]

Rae, I think everyone's just waiting on you for the Waterstrider scene. Not much anyone can do at the moment.