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Old 10-31-2011, 10:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Tanuki Tales
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Default By Blood he is born, by Deed he is forged. [Base Class]

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Scion of Legacy



”You people and your quaint little categories.”
-Captain Jack Harkness, Day One.

Those who leave the safety of their homes to strike out on epic adventures almost always find their true strength through training or raw talent. Be they the savage barbarian from the hinterlands, the erudite wizard fresh from academy or the daring fighter who takes to the sword like a fish to water, this is true of them all. But not the Scion of Legacy. They draw their potency from something far more deep and primal, calling upon the strange gifts bequeathed to them by ancestors they may not know they ever had.

Unlike those who can claim direct lineage from something monstrous or wonderful, the Scion of Legacy will never show anything but superficial connection to their ancestor. They may possess tiny horns hidden beneath their hair, longer than normal canine teeth or even a slight tint to their skin. But this does nothing to assuage how out of place they are amongst their own people or even other civilized folks. They are inherently of the strange and misunderstood and the more perceptive or sensitive can see this in them. Those who rise above the scorn, fear and hate that may come their way have inside them the greatness to become heroes; and those who fall under the heel of discrimination and hatred can metamorphose into monsters far greater than to what they call kin.

Alignment: Any. Scions of Legacy have a natural proclivity towards the alignment of their ancestor but this is neither the rule nor the exception.

Hit Dice: d8

Class skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Any One) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skills: 4+Intelligence Modifier per level


LevelBase Attack BonusFortitude SaveReflex SaveWill Save
Special
1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
Minor Monstrous Art, Path of the Inhuman
2nd
+2
+2
+0
+3
Bonus Feat, Monstrous Skill +2
3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
Armored Hide, Inhuman Body +1
4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
Hybrid Potential (First), We are Kin
5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
Inhuman Mind +1, Least Monstrous Art
6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+5
Bonus Feat
7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+5
Inhuman Body +2, Monstrous Skill +4
8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+6
Improved We are Kin
9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+6
Inhuman Mind +2, Thicker than Water
10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+7
Bonus Feat, Moderate Monstrous Art
11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7
Inhuman Body +3, Monstrous Skill +6
12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8
Greater We are Kin, Hybrid Potential (Second)
13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8
Inhuman Mind +3
14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9
Bonus Feat
15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+9
Inhuman Body +4, Major Monstrous Art
16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+10
Monstrous Skill +8
17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Stuff of Legends
18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
Bonus Feat
19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Inhuman Mind +4
20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Hybrid Potential (Third), Master Monstrous Art, Monstrous Apotheosis, Monstrous Skill +10

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Scions of Legacy are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all form of armors except shields.

Path of the Inhuman
Scions of Legacy are touched by the heritage of a creature far unlike their parent race. This powerful atavism grants them powers and skills that grant them abilities that outstrip those of their direct ancestors. When a Scion of Legacy takes their first level in this class they select one of the Paths of the Inhuman listed below. This selection is permanent and can not be changed at a later time.

Monstrous Arts
As Scions of Legacy gain more levels in this class they unlock and gain more powers that are innate to the monster that they have descended from. These powers or "Monstrous Arts" are denoted under each Path of the Inhuman and are gained as denoted on the table above. The abilities gained from each Monstrous Art are Extraordinary qualities unless denoted otherwise in their entry.

Bonus Feat
At 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th levels the Scion of Legacy gains a bonus feat. This feat is selected from a list noted under their chosen Path of the Inhuman. The Scion of Legacy may select a feat even if they do not meet the prerequisites for it.

Monstrous Skill (Ex)
Scions of Legacy possess innate skill passed down through their genetics and as they unlock more power from their deep wellspring of racial prowess these skills blossom to higher heights. They may select two skills from the list provided under their chosen Path of the Inhuman. They receive a bonus to those selected skills equal to what is listed on the table above and those skills always count as class skills for the Scion of Legacy.

Armored Hide (Ex)
The flesh of a Scion of Legacy begins to toughen and harden as they delve into their birthright, their skin becoming more like finely crafted armor than the tender soft tissue of their progenitors. The Scion of Legacy gains natural armor equal to their Constitution modifier. This natural armor stacks with any other natural armor the Scion of Legacy possesses.

Inhuman Body (Ex)
The Scion of Legacy evolving physiology becomes bolstered and empowered, increasing their physical prowess. The Scion of Legacy gains a permanent increase to two of their physical ability scores which are noted in the Scion of Legacy's chosen Path of the Inhuman. The table above denotes the total bonus that the Scion of Legacy has accrued at each interval.

Hybrid Potential
As they follow a long journey of self discovery, a Scion of Legacy learns that they are not simply an atavism or a monster caged in the body of one of the base races but that they are a rare and deeply blended hybrid with traits unique to themselves.

At 4th, 12th and 20th level the Scion of Legacy selects one of the Cleric Domains noted under their chosen Path of the Inhuman. The abilities granted by the domain are treated as supernatural and can not be suppressed by an anti-magic field or similar effect. The spells granted by the domain are treated as spell-like abilities that are usable once per day. The Scion of Legacy does not gain access to a Spell-like ability until their total Hit Dice is equal to twice that spell's level.

We are Kin (Ex)
The Scion of Legacy reaches deep within themselves, discovering through a long dormant genetic memory subtle ways to sway the moods of the creature they've descended from. The Scion of Legacy can improve the attitude of monsters of their chosen Path of the Inhuman's creature type. This ability functions like just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Scion of Legacy rolls a 1d20 and adds their total levels in this class and their Charisma modifier to the result.

At 8th level the Scion of Legacy gets a +2 bonus to this check and this increases to +4 at 12th level.

Inhuman Mind (Ex)
The Scion of Legacy has found that as their body and very nature changes and warps that they go through great personal growth. The Scion of Legacy gains a permanent increase to two of their mental ability scores which are noted in the Scion of Legacy's chosen Path of the Inhuman. The table above denotes the total bonus that the Scion of Legacy has accrued at each interval.

Thicker than Water (Ex)
The Scion of Legacy's blood may be murkier than direct descendants of their ancestors, but it is not completely diluted. The Scion of Legacy counts as being the same creature as their Heritage for any effect related to race.

Stuff of Legends (Su)
The Scion of Legacy's inhuman roots affects not only their mind and body but also their very time on this earth. A Scion of Legacy's longevity becomes herculean, the length of each of their age categories multiplied by 5. If this would result in a Scion of Legacy's regressing to a previous age category their ability scores are not changed as a result, they are simply given more time.

Monstrous Apotheosis
The Scion of Legacy has tapped into so much of their hidden potential that they become something of a perfect hybrid between their parent race and their long dead ancestor. The Scion of Legacy goes through the following changes:
  • The Scion of Legacy's type changes to match the creature type of their chosen Path of the Inhuman. If they already share the same type, the Scion of Legacy gains any subtypes possessed by the creature.
  • The Scion of Legacy selects one of the ability scores that were increased by their Inhuman Body and Inhuman Mind class features. They receive a further +2 increase to these two ability scores.
  • The Scion of Legacy is treated as if having two more levels in this class than they actually do in regards to any class features or abilities granted by this class that are based solely off of the amount of levels the Scion of Legacy possesses in this class.

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Old 10-31-2011, 10:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Tanuki Tales
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Paths of the Inhuman


Ghoul
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Gloom
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Golem, Iron
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Lich
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Phoenix
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Pit Fiend
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Solar
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Troll
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Tanuki Tales
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Reserved for later use.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Tanuki Tales
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Reserved for much later use.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:49 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Tanuki Tales
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Reserved for much much later use.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Tanuki Tales
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Reserved for much later use^3
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Tanuki Tales
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Reserved for much later use^4
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
Tanuki Tales
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Aaaaand done.

Since Radmelon was so patient with his original request, I felt that it would be appropriate for the first Path of the Inhuman to be the Phoenix.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Pyromancer999
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Nice class. Still, ever heard of the supplement Weapons of Legacy? It had a section that allowed Monsters of Legacy to exist, legendary creatures that got Legacy Powers just like a Weapon of Legacy. I also made a bloodline for it, which you may want to look at. Still, overall nice class.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:16 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
SamBurke
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Default Re: By Blood he is born, by Deed he is forged. [Base Class]

This is a really cool class. I was wondering if you had enough included in it to make one go 1-20 (the only way to really get all the goodies that are given out, or to make the class worth it), and I think the Phoenix does. Now, here's the thing: it's not too high tier. I'm thinking 4-5. Maybe.

The only reason it got to 4 is because REGENERATION IS STINKING POWERFUL. So, giving regen 5 [Cold/Evil] is a boost.

Basically, this looks like a powered-up bloodline... which are pretty much worth 3 levels. If, and only if, they're done Welknair style. So.. I think this class needs some major boosts.

That said, it's nice.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
Tanuki Tales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
Nice class. Still, ever heard of the supplement Weapons of Legacy? It had a section that allowed Monsters of Legacy to exist, legendary creatures that got Legacy Powers just like a Weapon of Legacy. I also made a bloodline for it, which you may want to look at. Still, overall nice class.
I have to admit that while I know of the source book it's one of the splats that I've never read and actually have never really seen come across in any of the threads on the site that I've been in.

I will check out your bloodline though.

And thanks. I'm trying to forge a well received class out of the ruins of its predecessor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
This is a really cool class. I was wondering if you had enough included in it to make one go 1-20 (the only way to really get all the goodies that are given out, or to make the class worth it), and I think the Phoenix does.
Not exactly sure what you're saying here, sorry.

Quote:
Now, here's the thing: it's not too high tier. I'm thinking 4-5. Maybe.
This...this I'm not alright with. I don't mind if I make a class that's Tier 1 but I never want it to be below Tier 3.

I see I'll need to work more on balancing how heritages/Paths of the Inhuman work.


Quote:
Basically, this looks like a powered-up bloodline... which are pretty much worth 3 levels. If, and only if, they're done Welknair style.
Sorry, you've lost me again. ^^;

Quote:
So.. I think this class needs some major boosts.
Any suggestions? Maybe that Monster of Legacy thing Pyro mentioned?

Quote:
That said, it's nice.
Thanks! ^_^
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
SamBurke
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Sorry. What I was saying was that a full bloodline is worth ECL+3 or LA +3. In other words, you lose three levels at some point of your career in return for a bunch of benefits over the whole of it. Some of these bonuses are flat stat boosts, an affinity, and a skill bonus (the last two of which are most often WORTHLESS).

This is almost the same power level, only it's spread over 20 character levels.

One maxim I've heard that I like for PEACHing is, "If you can't imagine anyone taking it, it's not powerful enough. If you can't imagine anyone NOT taking it, it's too powerful." At this point, while I could see someone taking it, it doesn't seem overly good.

The problem, I think, is not having stuff in levels (dead levels are the curse of homebrew!): there's something or other in every level. However, almost half of them are just stat increases. Neato-keen, that, but also not a class feature.

Suggestions for improvement:

Give each path a domain and a certain number of castings per day (maximum 2+bonus from mod?) could work, or give them the option to get extra feats for it.

Some sort of shape-shifting ability, IE, shift into whatever creature is a part of your bloodline, gaining its abilities to a certain extent? Then, as the levels go on, they could get closer and closer to their parents' abilities. Seems close to the fluff.

Maybe take a page from Pathfinder's "X Power/Talent?" For example, the Barbarian gets a feat-equivalent "Rage Power" from a list of twenty or thirty, and then a few suggestions on his archetype as to which would help the fluff. The rogue gets "Rogue Talents" every other level (again, about equivalent to a bonus feat) which can do a number of things, also suggested in his archetype. This allows for quite a bit of buildability, so that no two Scions are the same.

Scaling and thematic abilities, in my opinion, are better than including bonus feats and one-off abilities (I'm looking at you, PointlessTrackless steps! And Resist Nature's Lure...). However, that's my personal pet peeve.

There are my suggestions. Take at your own risk.

Also, follow'd.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:17 AM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Tanuki Tales
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@Sam: The problem is I don't want to make this a casting class or an initiating class. That seems to be a common trend and something that really ends up with a class being determined as Tier 3 or higher because spells and maneuvers are "That Good". It also ends up inevitably leading to clashes with certain Paths. If the creature isn't magical and the base race isn't magical then where is this magic coming from? Why is this class granting magic if there's no reasonable source from it? Is it just tacked on for the hell of it?

I also don't want to give shapeshifting of any kind...because...well...I already have a base class that does that and does that well.

The problem with the Rage Power/Rogue Talent/Gunslinger Deed/etc. line of thiking is that I need to find something that is both organic to the class and completely generic so that it doesn't steal thunder from the chosen Path of the Inhuman. And I'm trying to come up with something and failing so far; might crack up Bastards and Bloodlines and look at what their feats and classes grant for ideas.

I might just try to buff up the Paths if I can't think of anything.

Your input has been very appreciated. ^_^
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:07 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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@Sam: The problem is I don't want to make this a casting class or an initiating class. That seems to be a common trend and something that really ends up with a class being determined as Tier 3 or higher because spells and maneuvers are "That Good". It also ends up inevitably leading to clashes with certain Paths. If the creature isn't magical and the base race isn't magical then where is this magic coming from? Why is this class granting magic if there's no reasonable source from it? Is it just tacked on for the hell of it?

I also don't want to give shapeshifting of any kind...because...well...I already have a base class that does that and does that well.

The problem with the Rage Power/Rogue Talent/Gunslinger Deed/etc. line of thiking is that I need to find something that is both organic to the class and completely generic so that it doesn't steal thunder from the chosen Path of the Inhuman. And I'm trying to come up with something and failing so far; might crack up Bastards and Bloodlines and look at what their feats and classes grant for ideas.

I might just try to buff up the Paths if I can't think of anything.

Your input has been very appreciated. ^_^
I understand about the magic, but here's the issue: T3 IS magic. Anything T3 and above is using a magic or magic-esque system. Getting to T3 requires a ton of choices that can be switched out. So, if you're not going to use magic, then what are you using? Binding could work, maneuvers could work, powers could work, but they've all been lumped together.

Let me repeat: the only way for something to be T3, by definition, is to have something that it is VERY good at, AND an ability to do some other stuff if needed. This class cannot.

Also, I've never heard of Bastards and Bloodlines... the books sounds very interesting. Is it 3.5?
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:24 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Tanuki Tales
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I know, I know. I just don't personally like how you need magic or magic-by-a-different-name X to be competing close to the middle of the Tier system. While I'm alright with Paths giving magical abilities or even give some form of casting, I just want to try and not have it be part of the main chassis. Might not be able to avoid that though.

Bastards and Bloodlines is a 3rd party DnD supplement released at the cusp of 3.5 and made by Green Ronin Publishing. I personally like Green Ronin publishing so I tend to get ideas from it or use it.

It's the fun little book that introduced beauties like the Blinkling (Halfling/Blink dog), Burrower (Gnome/Umber Hulk), Lasher (Dwarf/Roper) and Wendigo (Dwarf/Winter Wolf).
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:30 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Sounds great!

Now, here's the thing: this class can still be tier 4. If you focus each of the Paths to one "niche," then it can be good at it; really good at it. Just realize you have to compete with multi-classing.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Tanuki Tales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
Sounds great!
It is a fun, albeit cringe worthy, late 3.0/early 3.5 book.


Quote:
Now, here's the thing: this class can still be tier 4. If you focus each of the Paths to one "niche," then it can be good at it; really good at it. Just realize you have to compete with multi-classing.
Which I'm not honestly alright with.

Hm....

Though I would be alright with the domain idea if it was translated into a mostly Supernatural and SLA format.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:43 AM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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It is a fun, albeit cringe worthy, late 3.0/early 3.5 book.




Which I'm not honestly alright with.

Hm....

Though I would be alright with the domain idea if it was translated into a mostly Supernatural and SLA format.
SLAs make sense to me.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Tanuki Tales
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Alright, the Hybrid Potential class feature is up.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
SamBurke
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I think that works pretty nicely! Very fluffy domains, but useful enough. So, now there need to be... more Paths?

I like this, a lot.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:37 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
Tanuki Tales
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Quote:
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I think that works pretty nicely! Very fluffy domains, but useful enough. So, now there need to be... more Paths?
Feel free to make requests. Like it's predecessor class, that's how the majority of this classes' options will be built. The Phoenix will be the only one from the original waiting queue to be made unless requested a second time because Radmelon was pretty vehement on it.

Quote:
I like this, a lot.
Thanks!
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
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Dragons come to mind quickly. They are indeed renowned for their mating... erm... skills.

Dinosaurs. (I LOVE 'EM!)

Celestial.

Fiendish (blah...).

I can help with some of these, if you want.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
Tanuki Tales
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Dragons come to mind quickly. They are indeed renowned for their mating... erm... skills.

Dinosaurs. (I LOVE 'EM!)

Celestial.

Fiendish (blah...).
Any specifics of those 4 broad creature kinds you'd like to see?


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I can help with some of these, if you want.
While I appreciate the sentiment, at this point in the project the help I require is requests and critiques. The predecessor class got bogged down and went on hiatus because of similar offers and the Moderators were very clear on what would happen if any ownership disputes even started to happen.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
SamBurke
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Default Re: By Blood he is born, by Deed he is forged. [Base Class]

Celestial is my favorite... I've always loved playing paladins.

Maybe something that fits with Paladins? (IE, stacks for determining smites/LoH/spellcasting...?).

A Solar would be cool to see: they're awesome. Any other Angels would work, too.
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Tanuki Tales
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Celestial is my favorite... I've always loved playing paladins.

Maybe something that fits with Paladins? (IE, stacks for determining smites/LoH/spellcasting...?).
That's something that'd either come from a feat or a PrC, but that's an idea to tuck away for later use or something someone else could always do themselves. So I'll tuck that gem away for later.

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A Solar would be cool to see: they're awesome. Any other Angels would work, too.
Solar it is!
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Tanuki Tales
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Path of the Solar has been added.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
SamBurke
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It looks nice and definitely has some stuff to look forward to, but I'm puzzled what you meant by 10th level cleric casting, without mentioning spells.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
Tanuki Tales
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It looks nice and definitely has some stuff to look forward to, but I'm puzzled what you meant by 10th level cleric casting, without mentioning spells.
I'm sory, but what do you mean?
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
NosferatuZodd
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Ghoul might be neato.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Pyromancer999
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Default Re: By Blood he is born, by Deed he is forged. [Base Class]

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It looks nice and definitely has some stuff to look forward to, but I'm puzzled what you meant by 10th level cleric casting, without mentioning spells.
Basically, you get the same casting(meaning same number of spells known and spell slots, as is implied by that) as a cleric of half your class level would. So, at 20th, there'd be no difference between a 10th level cleric and a 20th level member of this class.
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