Spanish Fan Translation of Oots

EmperorSarda · 11-04-2011, 11:20 AM

Since The Giant has said he is fine with a fan Spanish Translation of his comic here, I want to test out my Spanish translation abilities and try my hand at it. It won't be all at once, and of course puns will be tricky so it won't be entirely literally translated. More of the spirit of what is trying to be said.

With the help of NerfTW, Goosefeather, Zigg'rrauglurr, Ron Miel, Wolfe, Denamort, JoseB, Fenchurch, Vashnevskaya, and a few others we translated a few of the strips already.

Since the thread started, we have used these guidelines and some others.
Rules or Guidelines used from the previous thread or adopted hence:

Avoid Regionalisms; Keeping the translation to a international form of Spanish so all can understand.
Discussion of Spanish Grammar; While I have not minded the discussion that went on in the first thread about the particulars of Spanish Language, some have suggested making a thread for the discussion and a thread for the compilation. If the discussion intrudes or distracts from the translation process, we can go that route if necessary.
For Vaarsuvius, remember to try and phrase things so what he says does not point to a gender toward him or herself.
Keep swearing to the level of the swear in the comic strip itself.
Durkon håblå Nórdicø (excepto cuando la letra lleva acento), to reflect his accent.
Suggestions and discussion are encouraged to translate strips. Hopefully the same level of participation was had as the original topic had.
Once a consensus has been reached about a strip, it will be posted in the post below. Though if there is a problem with a word or phrase or translated item, feel free to ask and bring up discussion about it.
When there are more translated strips, they will be spoilered in groups of 20 or so, for better organization.
Point of reference for some terms

Spoiler

Dwarves = Enanos
Elves = Elfo
Goblins =Góblines
Ogres = Ogros
Ranger = Explorador
Halfling = Mediano
Spot Check = Tirada de Avistar
Feat = dote
Mind Flayer = Despoja Mentes
Unless there are any objections, we can use this glossary for translated spell names and other little things. And a Spanish 3.5 character sheet.

Translated comics 1-20

Spoiler

#21 -- Todo se Revuelve por el Drama

Spoiler

#22 -- Liderazgo en Acción

Spoiler

#23 -- Mientras Tanto...

Spoiler

#24 -- ¿Oyes lo que Oigo?

Spoiler

#25 -- Armadura Vete

Spoiler

#26 -- La Desnudez de Bardo

Spoiler

#27 -- El delicado arte de las negociaciones intragrupales

Spoiler

#28 -- Como en Apartamento para tres

Spoiler

#29 - ¿Tesoro? ¿Qué Tesoro?

Spoiler

#30 -- Detras de la Puerta Secreta

Spoiler

#31 -- Todo-Lo-Que-Pueda-Comer Bufé de Cerebros

Spoiler

#70 -- Eso es Grosero

Spoiler

#226 -- ¿Quién está en el trono?

Spoiler

#447 -- Guardando al Zafiro.

Spoiler

#449 -- Tierra de Lavantar

Spoiler

EmperorSarda · 11-04-2011, 11:23 AM

Comic 1 is up.

If there are better words for Ranger and Chain shirt, please let me know.

And yeah, I know I said 'Small weapons' rather than shrinkage of weapons. I think it fit more.

Also, should I assign each character a color for their text? Would that make it easier to read?

NerfTW · 11-04-2011, 11:30 AM

I know with most weird accents, translators will try to choose a dialect that reflects that. But it has it's issues. My favorite example has always been that Goku from Dragonball speaks the Japanese equivalent of a redneck yokel accent. So obviously, it had to be something different, since the implications of a country boy are different in Japan and America.

If there's really no good way to translate it, I'd just do a straight translation of the joke and then a description of how it worked in the original English.

EmperorSarda · 11-04-2011, 11:41 AM

Comic 2 is up. And yeah, I think I'll just do straight up translation for Durkon.

EmperorSarda · 11-04-2011, 12:22 PM

Strips 3 and 4 posted.

Goosefeather · 11-04-2011, 01:07 PM

Don't have much time atm, just skimmed through the first comic quickly, but I'll point out a couple of things I noticed, though I'm not a native speaker either. Note, I'm used to peninsular Spanish whereas you seem to be going for a Latin-American form of Spanish, so I won't correct hispanoamericanisms, but I'll suggest alternatives (though with tense use that might get old quickly...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Comic #1

Spoiler

Hope some of that helped! I may be able to look through the other comics later, but am in a bit of a rush tonight!

Zigg'rrauglurr · 11-04-2011, 01:08 PM

Since you asked for suggestions...

Since there are many options I will add the possible differences below each line, If you like my suggestions, you are welcome to edit the original post.

Besides my many suggestions/corrections I salute the effort you are making.

Question, You are not a native spanish speaker, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Comic #1

Spoiler

If you like the ideas I can probably give you a hand with setting up. Durkon could use a farmer/simpleton accent, that's the closest Spanish language can get to "Scottish/Pirate speech"

Goosefeather · 11-04-2011, 01:21 PM

Haha, Zigg'rrauglurr, I officially cede authority on the subject to you, seeing as you are a genuine native speaker

Onyavar · 11-04-2011, 01:43 PM

Why, hello! It's nice to see you around. Good luck in your endeavour!

Here are some examples of german translations 737,738,739.

And, from the top of my head, here are the links to the french translation runs, maybe some of the ideas there are usable paths in spanish:
French A, French B and French C. Don't know why Lissou started from scratch every now and then.

Oh, and all comics have a title, according to this list.

Cheers!

EmperorSarda · 11-04-2011, 01:56 PM

Zigg, No. I lived in Mexico in two years and am pursuing a Spanish minor; but I am not a native speaker.

And thank you for your suggestions. I'll do what I can for the accent. And thanks for correcting my accent failures.

Goosefeather, I failed to see your comments as well. Thank you for the input.

Ron Miel · 11-04-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Also, should I assign each character a color for their text? Would that make it easier to read?

No and no.

Some colours are easy to read
some are harder
some are very hard

And with so many different characters, you'd soon run out of colours.

Wolfe · 11-04-2011, 10:36 PM

Dude, while I admire your enthusiasm, your Spanish is not good enough to make a quality translation of all strips. Sorry to rain on your parade. Just in those few you did:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Panel 5: Roy: Umm, Creo es una camisa de cadena.

"Malla". Mail (as in chain link) is "malla". "Camisa" works for shirt, but "Cota" is specifically armour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Elan: ¡Que Chevere!

Beware of regionalisms. While I don't mind (viva el español tutti-frutti!) some others may mind or not recognise terms used only in South America (chévere!), Spain (me mola!), or Mexico (chido!). Also, chévere needs an acute accent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Panel 2: Roy: Haley, toma la mitad del equipo para explorar estes corredores.

"Estos", not "estes". You make this error several times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Haley: !Suena bien¡

Your admiration marks are... ¡Backwards! Also, the initial ¡ and the letter i are different characters, even if this particular font doesn't seem to show it clearly. ¡i¡i¡i

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Varsuvius: ¡Nuestros destinos ya están interconectados!

"están ahora interconectados" works better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Roy: Ooh, umm, Durkon, sígame.

Good question: would the order members speak in "tu" or "usted" form to each other? how about to others outside the order? it would need you to make an editorial decision unsupported by the comic, and once made can't be changed easily or it'd ruin consistency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Belkar: Perdidor.

It's "perdedor", and it lacks the same insulting connotations as "loser". "Maleta" would be better, but it may be a regionalism too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Panel 1: Haley: ... pues los Botas de Velocidad eran bien poderosos,

Las botas. Las. Can't you see they are girlish boots? (heh, all boots are feminine, though, even Roy's).

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Varsuvius: Yo veo. Fue una enigma seria que tuviste.

...while enigma is masculine. Can't you see how manly an enigma is? ("serio"). This is what I mean....

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Panel 3: Haley: Deberas? No veo nada.

"¿De veras?", no "deberas"! This is a pet peeve of mine, akin people misusing "they're" and "their" in English. Deberas is a malformed future tense of the verb "to owe" (deber). "de veras?" means "for real?" From the latin Veritas. Has been spelled with a V for two thousand years.

...and a bunch of other details, but I think those are enough. Let me close with this one, though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorSarda

Panel 6: Elan: Hola Haley, Mira, encontré estes espadas gratis. Estaban en in Bazo.
Panel 7: Durkon: ¿Cómo tan herida estas muchacho?
Elan: Depende...
Panel 8: Elan: ¿Qué importante es uno de estos?
[/spoiler]

"estas espadas", not "estes"; "estaban en mi bazo" no "en in Bazo"; "¿Qué tan herido...", not "¿Cómo tan herida (Elan ain't a girl!)..."; "¿Qué tan importante..." (missing "tan").

Once again, sorry to rain on your parade, and I do admire your dedication, but I think this is ill-advised. Not to add that a lot (a hell of a lot) of game-related, fantasy-related, pop-culture-related, and humour-related stuff is nearly untranslatable.

Denamort · 11-05-2011, 12:09 AM

Cool, I was thinking about doing a translation of the comic, but I'm to lazy. My first recomendation is to use "Neutral" spanish. That's the Spanish that's used in the dubbing of movies and T.V. For instance, in the second comic you translated "Elan: ¡Ooh! ¡Andale! ¡Escójame!". "Andale" is used in Mexico. In argentina we would said "¡Dale!!Elegime!". Neutral would use "¡Vamos!¡Elegime!" (or maybe "¡Elígeme!")

Comic 1:

Spoiler

Comic 2

Spoiler

Comic 3

Spoiler

Comic 4

Spoiler

Comic 5

Spoiler

Comic 6

Spoiler

Captain Alien · 11-05-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Las botas. Las. Can't you see they are girlish boots? (heh, all boots are feminine, though, even Roy's).

You know, gender is a grammatical phenomenon which has nothing to do with being manly or girly. Gender is mostly irrationally chosen by the speakers when a new term comes up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfe

...while enigma is masculine. Can't you see how manly an enigma is? ("serio"). This is what I mean....

This one makes even less sense. "Enigma" is not masculine because it sounds manly (I fail to see this, anyway). The original word it comes from is a neuter word, and every neuter word from Latin or Greek must be turned into a masculine one when adapting them. "Estigma" and "Drama" are similar examples.

The stuff Denamort pointed out, such as already existant translations for D&D terms ("Averiguar intenciones" or "Dote" instead of "Sense motive" or "Feat"), is indispensable as well.

That's all.

Bulldog Psion · 11-05-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Alien

You know, gender is a grammatical phenomenon which has nothing to do with being manly or girly. Gender is mostly irrationally chosen by the speakers when a new term comes up.

This one makes even less sense. "Enigma" is not masculine because it sounds manly (I fail to see this, anyway). The original word it comes from is a neuter word, and every neuter word from Latin or Greek must be turned into a masculine one when adapting them. "Estigma" and "Drama" are similar examples.

The stuff Denamort pointed out, such as already existant translations for D&D terms ("Averiguar intenciones" or "Dote" instead of "Sense motive" or "Feat"), is indispensable as well.

That's all.

I believe -- though I can't swear to it -- that Wolfe was softening his criticism with a little humor, which you appear to be taking as literal statements of truth (that is, that he thinks boots are feminine and that the gender of the word is feminine because they are essentially girly). In my (possibly mistaken) opinion, he doesn't think that all, but is just trying to be friendly and disarmingly humorous when he attempts to deliver bad news.

So, I think that your criticism of his criticism may be based on a misunderstanding of what appears to be his actual intent.

Captain Alien · 11-05-2011, 07:51 AM

His correction had good intentions, but it was somewhat inaccurate and I found it not very educational. That's all.

Zherog · 11-05-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Good question: would the order members speak in "tu" or "usted" form to each other? how about to others outside the order? it would need you to make an editorial decision unsupported by the comic, and once made can't be changed easily or it'd ruin consistency.

I think it depends on the character, and in some situations the circumstances too.

I see V always using usted form, as it's more formal and V is all about formality (since it sounds more long-winded). I see the other using tu form when speaking to each other. I see Roy and maybe Hailey using usted form when speaking to people who deserve such: Hinjo and Shojo for example (at least at first).

That's my opinion, at least. Keep in mind that my knowledge of the Spanish language is limited to having taken 2 years in High School - and that was 20 years ago. Nowadays, I can say very little in Spanish: "Hi," "My name is...," "How are you?," "Where's the bathroom?," and "beer." And I can count for certain to 29, but then have to stop and think about 30, 40, etc. So my opinions should probably be taken with a few grains of salt...

Wolfe · 11-05-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Humourless

You know, gender is a grammatical phenomenon which has nothing to do with being manly or girly.

Yeah, I know. As Bulldog said, I was trying to add a bit of humour into the discussion to preclude it being seen as hostile (which was not my intention). However, the main point stands: you can't know enigma's gender by pulling down its pants. You either know it, or you have to look it up; you can't deduce it or infer it. The OP clearly lacks the familiarity with the language to know the gender mode of many common nouns, which would introduce many errors or cause him to look up endless nouns. Correcting these errors is a lot more work in Spanish than English, due to concordance. "Las botas rojas poderosas" or "los zapatos rojos poderosos"... one error, four fixes. ("verdes" made its saving thow for gender neutrality, though).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Alien

The stuff Denamort pointed out, such as already existant translations for D&D terms ("Averiguar intenciones" or "Dote" instead of "Sense motive" or "Feat"), is indispensable as well.

Yes. I don't have the Spanish version of the D&D books, but whoever wants to do the translations should. I'm weary of regionalisms there too. Like "dote" for feat, sounds off to me (though I make no objection). I don't have a better one, but I suspect it may be a peculiarity of the Argentine translation (Denamort: out of curiosity, if you have the time, can you check whether your book was printed and/or translated in Argentina?)

In this vein, one thing I didn't mention earlier is about monster names. The OP proposed "duendes" for elves, and "trasgos" for goblins. But trasgo is a regionalism of north Spain (I had never heard the word). I have always seen goblins translated as "duendes" (which the OP uses for elves). This is mostly due to the many different elves which exist. It seems odd that Harry Potter's house-elf and Galadriel are both called elves. the house-elf in Spanish is a "duende", but mostly because it really looks like a goblin. For Tolkien-style elves, you know, pretty, smart, fair skinned and so on, some Tolkien translations use the word "elfo", which I hate, but again, don't have a better one. Since "orc" is "orco", and given "elfo", we just should call dwarves "dwarfos" and call it a day. Not to get started with other fantasy elements, which could get really hard to translate as well.

... speaking of which, Denamort, again: do you happen to have the monster manual too? What does it say for elves, dwarves, goblins and so on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zherog

[Re: "tu" vs. "usted"]I think it depends on the character, and in some situations the circumstances too.

I see V always using usted form, as it's more formal and V is all about formality (since it sounds more long-winded). I see the other using tu form when speaking to each other. I see Roy and maybe Hailey using usted form when speaking to people who deserve such: Hinjo and Shojo for example (at least at first).

I agree with your assessment, but my main point is that it's something new and external to the comic (that is, one step beyond translating it), which will need an editorial judgement call for every new interaction between two characters, and there will be some pitfalls. And once again, given concordance and consistency issues, one error or mind-changing means a lot of fixes.

Denamort · 11-05-2011, 05:05 PM

Wolfe:

All my D&D books are printed in Spain. I believe this edition is the same for Spain and all of Latin America, so I'm confident the same terminology is used everywhere.

List of Creature Names (From MM 1 and Player's Handbook):

Elf= Elfo
Dwarf= Enano
Halfling=Mediano
Goblin= Trasgo (Awful word, really. I encourage my friends to use the word Goblin)
Hobgoblin= Gran Trasgo (Literally, Great Goblin)
Kobold= Kobold

Also:

Wizard translates as "Mago". Sorcerer as "Hechicero". "Spellcaster" or "Mage" as "Lanzador de Hechizos". (Wich is really confusing, because "Hechicero" literally means "Spellcaster" and "Mago" means "Mage"). Figther as "Guerrero" (literally Warrior) and Warrior as "Combatiente" (literally, Fighter). The rest translate literally (Druid, "Druida", Cleric, "Clerigo", etc.).

Wolfe · 11-05-2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

Wolfe:
All my D&D books are printed in Spain.

Heh, it makes sense. Trasgo and dote are regionalisms, then, but peculiar to Spain rather than Argentina -- or does "dote" sound good to you? it sounds off to me. "Dote" means "dowry" around these parts... pretty far from a feat. Then again, part of the problem is "feat" itself. In non-D&D English, a feat is something you do, not something you get. Climbing Everest is a feat. Improved Mountain Climbing is, what, a talent? Could "talento" be used for D&D-"feat" in Spanish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

Wolfe:
List of Creature Names (From MM 1 and Player's Handbook):

Elf= Elfo
Dwarf= Enano
Halfling=Mediano
Goblin= Trasgo (Awful word, really. I encourage my friends to use the word Goblin)
Hobgoblin= Gran Trasgo (Literally, Great Goblin)
Kobold= Kobold

Yeah, my Tolkien with "elfo" is also a Spaniard translation. I really don't like that word, but don't have a better one. And I suggest "duende" (or just "goblin", as you say) for goblin. But this is the tip of the iceberg. In the comic there have been owlbears (osobúho?), slaads, imps, ghasts, and a bunch of other things that would need a lookup into the MM, and which are likely to produce a word no one likes or knows anyway... 8-(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

Figther as "Guerrero" (literally Warrior) and Warrior as "Combatiente" (literally, Fighter).

Heh. Nasty. And I bet "rogue" is "ladrón", which is actually thief. Rogue should be "truhán" or something.

I still think the idea overall (and especially led by a non-native speaker) is ill-advised. Of course, it's not my intention to stop anyone from doing anything they want, merely mentioning my reasoning. Just looking ahead at the next half-dozen or so strips there are endless pitfalls waiting: greatsword ("granespada"? there ain't such a word), Durkon's dial-a-prayer, "cast" ("lanzar hechizo"? ugh!), unholy blight, "when the goat turns red..." and so on. To say nothing of general errors in gender, concordance, verb tenses, and so forth. There's a reason it hasn't been done: it needs a professional translator with author cooperation and a global scope; otherwise the quality will be abysmal, and doomed to stall before hitting 50 strips.

EmperorSarda · 11-05-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfe

Dude, while I admire your enthusiasm, your Spanish is not good enough to make a quality translation of all strips. Sorry to rain on your parade. Just in those few you did:

I cannot get better if I give up now.

Quote:

"Malla". Mail (as in chain link) is "malla". "Camisa" works for shirt, but "Cota" is specifically armour.

So just Cota de Malla? Thank you.

Quote:

Beware of regionalisms. While I don't mind (viva el español tutti-frutti!) some others may mind or not recognise terms used only in South America (chévere!), Spain (me mola!), or Mexico (chido!). Also, chévere needs an acute accent.

For expressions like Sweet, or awesome, what words should I use?

Quote:

"Estos", not "estes". You make this error several times.

Your admiration marks are... ¡Backwards! Also, the initial ¡ and the letter i are different characters, even if this particular font doesn't seem to show it clearly. ¡i¡i¡i

"están ahora interconectados" works better.

Thank you for the suggestions.

Quote:

Good question: would the order members speak in "tu" or "usted" form to each other? how about to others outside the order? it would need you to make an editorial decision unsupported by the comic, and once made can't be changed easily or it'd ruin consistency.

I see Varsuvius as always speaking in Usted, Belkar always in Tu. And a mix depending on who they are talking to, to others. I will try and watch consistency.

Quote:

It's "perdedor", and it lacks the same insulting connotations as "loser". "Maleta" would be better, but it may be a regionalism too.

I could use Tonto instead.

Quote:

Las botas. Las. Can't you see they are girlish boots? (heh, all boots are feminine, though, even Roy's).
...while enigma is masculine. Can't you see how manly an enigma is? ("serio"). This is what I mean....

Thank you for letting me know.

Quote:

"¿De veras?", no "deberas"! This is a pet peeve of mine, akin people misusing "they're" and "their" in English. Deberas is a malformed future tense of the verb "to owe" (deber). "de veras?" means "for real?" From the latin Veritas. Has been spelled with a V for two thousand years.

I did not know that, I will change it.

Quote:

...and a bunch of other details, but I think those are enough. Let me close with this one, though:

"estas espadas", not "estes"; "estaban en mi bazo" no "en in Bazo"; "¿Qué tan herido...", not "¿Cómo tan herida (Elan ain't a girl!)..."; "¿Qué tan importante..." (missing "tan").

Once again, sorry to rain on your parade, and I do admire your dedication, but I think this is ill-advised. Not to add that a lot (a hell of a lot) of game-related, fantasy-related, pop-culture-related, and humour-related stuff is nearly untranslatable.

You're not raining on my parade at all. There will be stuff that cannot be translated. I will make do and change it where appropriate. Advice and corrections is always appreciated.

And Denamort, do you know a site for D&D that has all the classes and other terms in Spanish? Cause I have been unable to find one.

Also as far as Durkon goes, I know the pronouns are implicit, but for Durkon I am going to keep them where available. I don't want him sounding like a farmer, so I will take off the shortening of the his words. Maybe the rr's like you suggested.

JoseB · 11-06-2011, 08:57 AM

Many years ago, I tried to get a Spanish translation of the comic going on. It didn't go anywhere, but well... It was worth a try. I think that the relevant threads disappeared in the Great Purge (TM) a while ago.

FWIW, I am a native Spanish speaker, born in Spain (although I haven't lived there for quite a few years).

Here goes my suggestion for Durkon's "accent", courtesy of Lissou: She simply wrote Durkon's dialogue in a perfectly normal way, without any trace of accent, but substituting all "o" and "O" for "ø" and "Ø" and all "a" and "A" for "å" and "Å" (like in that Astérix comic where Astérix ends up going to America and meets some vikings at the end -- The vikings talk like that).

In other words, if Durkon were to say "I have not seen anything like that in my whole life", you would write "I håve nøt seen ånything like thåt in my whøle life" (or, in Spanish, "Nø he vistø nådå semejånte en mi vidå").

I think that it is a good solution that very neatly sidesteps the problem of simulating Durkon's accent in Spanish, and immediately gives an impression of "Nordic speech".

BTW, you are going to find very soon a big problem with the "prophecy" that Eugene's ghost gives Roy ("When the goat turns red strikes true", strip #15). I found a way of writing that in Spanish in such a way that it makes sense and is suitably ambiguous, but it requires changes in the later strip where the prophecy becomes true.

(My version: "Cuando la víbora se vuelve roja acierta". The misinterpretation that Roy makes when they have fought the chimaera is that the "víbora" is the red dragon head, which is reptilian. The real meaning is that of "víbora" --which, literally, means "adder" as in the snake-- used as a synonym of "traitor", and then the real meaning of the prophecy is "cuando la víbora se vuelve" --"when the traitor turns against you"--, "roja acierta" --"the red woman strikes true").

If you need help, PM me. I will gladly help you with the translations.

All the best!

Denamort · 11-06-2011, 12:35 PM

Wolfe:
Nah, Rogue is "Picaro", they got that one right. The word "Dote" sounds off to me too. "Elfo", on the other hand, sounds perfectly natural.
The name of the monsters are not a problem, I have the books, and I can recall most by memory.

JoseB:
Great idea for Durkon's Speech. Although I wouldn't replace every O and A, but alternate, that would make it easy to read. Also, most accents, particulary Germanic have several ways of pronouncing vowels, wheres Spanish has just one. Durkon would pronounce some "a" right and some wrong. (As Belkar said, he can pronounce "stratosphere", but not "the")
Another option for "When the goat turns..." could be "Cuando la chiva se vuelve roja acierta". Here in Argentina (and most of Latin America) a goatee is called a "Chiva", so it works.

Denamort · 11-06-2011, 01:22 PM

Here's my try with Strip 7.

Strip 7

Spoiler

Someone suggested to color the names of the characters. I think we can, at least, color the names of the main cast, with strong colors. For example,

Roy
Haley
Elan
Durkon
Vaarsuvius
Belkar

Wolfe · 11-06-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoseB

"Nø he vistø nådå semejånte en mi vidå" [...] "Cuando la víbora se vuelve roja acierta".

Wow. Very elegant solutions both. I approve. I also like "víbora" (snake/traitor) better than "chiva" (goat), as "chiva" does not, for me, imply a goatee beard as well (that'd be "barba de chivo"). I'd also suggest "al volverse la víbora" instead of "cuando la víbora se vuelve"... but whatever you guys want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

Nah, Rogue is "Picaro", they got that one right. The word "Dote" sounds off to me too. "Elfo", on the other hand, sounds perfectly natural.

Yeah, "Pícaro" works fine. Your endorsing of "elfo" and my lack of a better option means it's just me, then, so I guess I'll just get used to it. About "dote", then what do you think of "talento"? JoseB, what did you use for "feat", and have a preference for "dote" or "talento" (or another)? Also, did you use that horrible "trasgo" word for goblin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

Here's my try with Strip 7.
Strip 7
Panel 1: Durkon: Elan se encuentra mal... y ya no tengo más CHA (I don't think I ever heard anybody said "Curar Heridas Algo" or CHA, mostly because it will get confusing with "Charisma". An other option is just "Curar Heridas")

"CSW" in the strip is not "Cure Something Wounds", it's "Cure Serious Wounds", which he expended with Belkar. Should then be "CHS", or spelled out "curar heridas serias".

Quote:

Roy: Hacé lo que puedas, Durkon.

As per your suggestion to use "neutral" Spanish, it should be "Haz" (o "Haga" if "usted"); all kinds of "vos" inflections should be right out, I think...

...except perhaps archaic (heh, sorry JoseB) "vosotros hubiéreis" style which may be in character for Vaarsuvius.

Quote:

Panel 2: Durkon: Gran Thor, tu humilded sirviente te pide ayuda en su hora de necesidad.

"humilde", not "humilded".

Quote:

Durkon: Bueno, quiero curarte, así que... "C-U-R"
Panel 7: Voz: Ha seleccionado, "Castigar Paganos". Si esto es correcto, cante "uno". Si no, cante "dos"[...]

Here's the problem: "Castigar" doesn't start with C-U-R. Neither does "Candentes", and "tumor" has nothing to do with "Dos". I also find the use of "mierda" somewhat objectionable, though it's sort of necessary to make the colon tumor joke work ("crap" is so mild a swear word in comparison, Durkon is not the swearing type, and "mierda" is not that common a swear word in Spanish at all). Worse would be if he said "Coño!" and ended up with uterine cancer... 8-)

EDIT: To keep the spelling joke, we'd need to drop the literal translation of the effects. Since he wants to "heal" (H-E-A), we could say "bueno, quiero aliviarte... A-L-I", then "ha seleccionado Aliento Horrible", then the second option "Alianza demónica" (or something else with "ali"), then in response to "dos", "destrucción" ("dos" and "des" are not too far, like "two" and "tu-"), choose the type of destruction, then Durkon swears "Rayos!" "Ha escogido Destrucción por Rayos!"

...problem solved, but if we go this route we are now rewriting jokes, which is, like the "usted" thing, a bit beyond translation, and the implications make me uneasy. Oh well.

---End EDIT---

In any case, I said my piece earlier about the general problems, so I will cease to be a voice of doom, and even help here and there until this effort runs its course. Some of the questions raised are bound to be interesting, and my misgivings are likely just about managing expectations.

Denamort · 11-06-2011, 03:46 PM

I though he meant "somenthing" wounds, otherwise, why not use low-level Cure's many times. I believe Serious Wounds is "Heridas Graves", in spanish.

I agree, Vibora works better, I suggested "chiva" because is closer to the original.

I'd keep the word "Dote", sinse that's the "official" translation. Anybody who owns a D&D book in spanish would recognize it immediately.

I prefer "Haz" rather than "Haga", Roy and Durkon are close friends, "Tu" seems better.

I know "Castigar", "Candentes" and "Tumor" have nothing to do with "C-U-R" or "DOS", but I couldn't find any word with "Cur" that worked. There are few common words starting with those letters, so I went for the literal translation. Here, in Latin America "Mierda" is a common word, tough I agree it's not as mild as crap. "Coño" on the other hand, is only used in Spain, and people in Latin America don't even know what it means.

(Old Post Edited)

Wolfe · 11-06-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

I prefer "Haz" rather than "Haga", Roy and Durkon are close friends, "Tu" seems better.

I agree with that, but then edits need to be done to the OP's translations at the top, as he used "usted" earlier when Roy talked to Durkon. This is what I mean about consistency pitfalls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

I know "Castigar", "Candentes" and "Tumor" have nothing to do with "C-U-R" or "DOS", but I couldn't find any word with "Cur" that worked.

You ninja'd my edit. Please see above for an idea that could work, but introduces another layer of complexity.

Denamort · 11-06-2011, 04:16 PM

Great suggestion, I already change my original post. I used "Alimañas Voraces" instead of "Alianza Demoníaca", it would be weird for Thor to do a pact with demons or somenthing like that.

Whenever you translate something you are re-writing it, there's no way to avoid that. The best transaltion is one that can stay as close to the literall translation as posible without loosing the meaning of the text.

Fenchurch · 11-06-2011, 04:33 PM

Great thread, I just registered to put my two copper pieces.
First of all, translating the whole comic seems a great challenge, the puns will be especially hard. What I can't understand is how no one has pointed out what in my opinion is the hardest challenge: Vaarsavius' gender. It's hard to talk about oneself in spanish without implying gender (altough V's verbosity might help) but it's almost impossible to reference someone else avoiding to declare gender. Even the word elfo means male elf and elfa is female elf.

About the word trasgo, I personally love it, it appears on many celtic legends. I would translate goblin as trasgo rather than duende because the former is usually used with evil implications. Usually duende is a jolly leprechaun or one of Santa's elves, while trasgo range from slightly mischievous humanoids to flesh-eating beasts. Once I saw it as a translation of wight, but I think that's straining the term.
I personally like Galician folklore, but I understand that word might be unknown to American readers. Actually, my first thought about Durkon was to give him Galician accent, but JoseB's ideas seems much better.

Ranger... My translation here would be montaraz, it's the word used in the spanish translation of The Lord of the Rings. I love that translation, they found an equivalent for most of the names: For example Samwise Gamgee becomes Samsagaz Gamyi (the 'wise' irony on his name is translated literally, while his family name is transcribed fonetically to prevent non-english speakers to read an unpronounceable name). And Trancos (Strider) is un montaraz, but it might be better to stick to the manual.

La Orden del Palo would be a fine translation of the comic's name, but I would propose del Palitroque. This might be a localism, I want to ask if that word is common outside Aragón. Here we call stick figures dibujos con palitroques but maybe other people has other names.

About the goat that turns red, I like the víbora idea, but being a feminine word it would reference Sabine rather than Nale. In case it's important to remark Nale's tagonism I would phrase the prophecy as "Cuando el cabrón se torne grana acertará"... Grana might be an uncommon word for red, but it has neutral gender and can reference Haley too. But there's a problem with cabrón, in case someone doesn't know it means both male goat and bastard...

And it brings the problem of coarse language. I personally don't see a problem with it, but it might be quite controversial. In the very first strip Haley says "What the hell?", which I would translate as "¿Qué cojones?". It might sound harder, but I guess both expressions are used with the same frequency in their languages. I would even draw an equivalence between hell/heck and cojones/córcholis. And I would never agree with Durkon shouting ¡Caca! out loud in the seventh strip.

So, I'll write my idea about that strip, somebody shold check for localisms. Actually I just found curtir is related to sex in Argentina, so the whole thing might be a bad idea (In Spain curtir means to cure the skin to make leather, so when applied to someone who is alive means to beat or batter) Maybe it would be better for Durkon to ask for sanación (S-A-N).
About chanting, salmodiar or entonar could be used to better imply the religious feeling, but they might be too uncommon.

Spoiler

Turns out I've been ninja'd about that strip and I like the other option better.

Wolfe · 11-06-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

I used "Alimañas Voraces" instead of "Alianza Demoníaca", it would be weird for Thor to do a pact with demons or somenthing like that.

True that. Alimañas is better.

Also, apropos of nothing, just a quick caution about selection bias:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denamort

Here, in Latin America "Mierda" is a common word, tough I agree it's not as mild as crap. "Coño" on the other hand, is only used in Spain, and people in Latin America don't even know what it means.

I'm glad the "rayos" avoided the "mierda" swearing, and I never seriously intended "coño" as an actual option, but it is a common swear word in parts of Latin America, specifically the Caribbean, and as far south as Panama and Colombia. Whereas "mierda" is a common noun for excreta, but not used as a swearword in Mexico and other places... So just a reminder to us all to keep our own selection biases in check.

Between a Spaniard (JoseB), an Argentine (you), and a Mexican (me), we should be able to come up with things that are readable and useful everywhere, but we're still a bit short of being Panhispanic. Let's keep that in mind. Y que viva el español tutti-frutti!