Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

[TechnoScrabble]

So my brother doesn't want his Imperial Guard figures I got him any more and gave them back to me, so I'm thinking of making a specialized infantry/air assault regiment. Troopers in gas masks who rope down from Valkyries to clear out toxic or infested areas.

Is this a thing int he WH40k universe? Hazmat Guard?

[Tychris1]

Originally Posted by TechnoScrabble

So my brother doesn't want his Imperial Guard figures I got him any more and gave them back to me, so I'm thinking of making a specialized infantry/air assault regiment. Troopers in gas masks who rope down from Valkyries to clear out toxic or infested areas.

Is this a thing int he WH40k universe? Hazmat Guard?

Death Korps of Kreig regiment with some added fluff.

[Borgh]

The Elysians specialize in droptroops and some of their Forgeworld models have gas masks.
I'm also fairly sure the gasmask is part of a standard kit but I don't have my infantryman's primer here.

[GolemsVoice]

It is, but if they're specialized guardsmen, you could say they have better gasmasks. I'm pretty sure the normal mask isn't the best there is.

[shadow_archmagi]

What precisely is a Hab, and a Hab Collective? The 40k wiki is strangely silent on the subject of Habs.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

What precisely is a Hab, and a Hab Collective? The 40k wiki is strangely silent on the subject of Habs.

IIRC in the Cain novels "Hab" is used as a Imperiumspeak for "House" (The same way Flashlights are "Luminators"), usually in the context of low-income housing, an apartment building becomes a "Hab Block"

[GolemsVoice]

I believe it's short for "Habitat". It's indeed often used in sci-fi for (usually) cheap, mass-produced low-quality housing.

[shadow_archmagi]

They're often used as scale descriptors- 20 Profit Factor is a "Hab Collective" and macrocannons fire shells the size of "Hab Blocks"

How big is that

[GolemsVoice]

I'd say as big as an apartment block in real life.

Spoiler

Like that, maybe? Bigger? It's freaking huge, no matter what.

[shadow_archmagi]

So what is a Hab Collective? Is that a company that owns Habs, or a sort of union of Hab-dwellers? Because 20 PF seems high for a bunch of people living in cheap, massed produced housing.

Unless Habs are incredibly large and include like, millions of people, in which case yeah I could see their collective buying power being pretty potent.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

So what is a Hab Collective? Is that a company that owns Habs, or a sort of union of Hab-dwellers? Because 20 PF seems high for a bunch of people living in cheap, massed produced housing.

Unless Habs are incredibly large and include like, millions of people, in which case yeah I could see their collective buying power being pretty potent.

Habs that are built within spires, such as Necromunda, can be huge. They're like small towns unto themselves.

So, a Hab Collective is the latter - halfway between a Neighbourhood Watch and a 'town hall' where local government meets to conduct business. I suppose the real-worl equivalent would be something kinda similar to an informal Mayor's Office.

[GolemsVoice]

Well, 20 isn't THAT high. I'd say a hab collective is a bunch of hab blocks, so it might be the hivecity equivalent to a modern city district. It's not millions, but it's thousands at least, which is some money, even if they are all poor. Note, habs aren't "soul-crushingly poor", but in a world where the divide between rich and poor is very wide, unless you're rich, fancy living will jsut be out of your reach.

So think of it as a district of lower to lower-middle class houses?

[shadow_archmagi]

For those that are interested, a chronicle of the first session of our rogue trader game:

Spoiler

Lord Captain Kuzym (Pronounced Koo Zeem) Gavrilovich, newly annointed with his warrant and having partially resupplied the Penitent Rising (a Dictator-Class Cruiser) after the events of a Dark Voyage, docks at Port Wander. He is informed that the Maw has been temporarily blocked by vicious, potent warp storms. The command crew board the station and spread out:

Vorden Steel, Explorator, uses his MIU to commune with the machine spirits of Port Wander, and senses that Port Wander's ramshackle nature (I don't know if this is official fluff but our GM described it as a sort of Imperial Space Hulk, where the station has bloated far beyond its original design as new bits have been welded on over the age) has left it with dozens of machine spirits that're bickering and arguing amongst one another. He heads to the lower decks to investigate the source of the machine's pain and runs into a swarm of mutant abominations, who eviscerate the junior techpriests accompanying him as they flee in terror.

Xanatos Gilbert, Astropath, and Rook, Navigator, accompany the Rogue Trader Gavrilovich to the promenade, where he gives a brief speech urging the voidborn to join his ship and see the void unwalked and serve the emperor, etc. Xanatos accompanies the new recruits back to the ship, where he uses his telepathic abilities to search for any crew who might be heretical or at least disloyal (of course, they're the same thing.) He finds an astonishingly large portion of them are, in fact, dangerously tainted, and executes the worst of them himself before herding the rest of the tainted ones off to the Arbites.

Meanwhile, Gavrilovich and Rook visit The Sweet Life, a small exclusive gathering of rogue traders. There they encounter Commodore Derringer, a fat, pompous sack of hot air with tremendously more money then them. They compare ships and trade barbed comments as Gavrilovich, a rear-admiral's son and a fighting man, reacts with disgust to the bloated aristocracy of a glorified merchant. A peculiarly tall man who identifies himself as Elijah enters the conversation on the side of Kuzym and extends his friendship to the young rogue, saying that anyone who can make enemies that quickly is a valuable friend to have.

Vorgen, still fleeing the mutants, stumbles into a twist bar, and gets into a gunfight with the locals. The fight rolls outside, and after Vorgen dispatches the mutant thugs he manages to grab their weapons and scurry inside before the abominations return to claim the fresh meat. The party arrives, hears his story, and then absconds to the upper decks, where they explain to the local Arbites that the lower-decks mutant population has gone far beyond acceptable levels of freakishness. The Arbites are uncooperative.

A messenger arrives with a note for Gavrilovich, which informs him that a convoy of fifteen ships is attempting to brave the warp storm to resupply a rebel world on the far side of the maw. The supplies would be free for the taking were someone to dispatch the smugglers, although the sender of the note does request a 10% finder's fee. The party sets off for the maw, intent on either arriving first, or braving the warp storms as well.

Upon arriving in The Battleground, the party picks up multiple engine signatures, and discovers that Commodore Derringer is on the trail of the same smugglers. He offers a wager- Whichever captain finds and kills the leader of the smuggler in personal combat shall win the other's ship. Gavrilovich agrees.

Vorgen detects suspicious engine signatures and announces that Derringer's cruiser, the Star Galleon, is planning to go to warp while his two frigates move in to attack. The Penitent Rising fires on them, crippling one. The frigates vox their astonishment and the commodore voxes his outrage, explaining that they were moving to *escort* the Penitent Rising, not ambush. More barbed comments are traded. Gavrilovich grab's Vorgen's laspistol and puts a round into his chest, letting his smoking torso fall offscreen (I'm not sure if 40k ships traditionally have video chat, but we do apparently) as he apologizes to the Commodore for the idiocy of his head enginseer. Vorgen gets up and stalks off, having suffered no real damage from the shot that did not penetrate his armor. (Credit where credit is due- I got the idea from another story on the forums where the captain periodically shoots his explorator as a way of expressing displeasure)

The Penitent Rising deploys an attack boat full of techpriests to assist with the repairs of the damaged frigate, and moves to warp. During the journey to the next safe haven, the other frigate is consumed by the warp storm. The Penitent Rising drops out of warp at the Witch World to see the Star Galleon already engaged with the fifteen convoy ships (thirteen now, plus two wrecks.)

Hoping to eliminate the tedious process of boarding and personally slaying the captain of every ship, Gavrilovich hails the remaining ships and demands to speak with their leader. Upon receiving a response, Vorgen is able to triangulate the location of the primary ship. Armed with this knowledge, the rogue trader invokes his right as the voice of the emperor, and demands to be allowed to board and inspect the ship for heretical materials. The ship agrees, and the party boards with a hundred ex-navy guardsmen. They put up no resistance, and the bridge is secured easily. In a blitz of psychic power, Xanatos rips the required information out of the smuggler captain:

On closer inspection, the ships were not moving to resupply a rebel world, but the shrine at Hermitage. They were, however, moving through the warp using witches rather than sanctioned navigators, hoping that by hiring psykers with a stronger warp connection, they might fare better. Gavrilovich deals out the Emperor's Justice: He commends the captain for attempting to resupply the shrine, but demands the death of the witches upon arrival. He also takes the liberty of executing the nearest witch immediately, to prevent it from communicating this verdict to its brethren. The party takes the captain aboard their own ship and voxes the Star Galleon, explaining that they've been played for fools.

Vorden, who was left onboard the Penitent Rising, reports that he's traced the source of the warp storms to the Witch World itself, and is conducting orbital bombardment to attempt to destroy the cult that's causing the disruption. Also, a fleet of Chaos ships emerges from the Warp. Gavrilovich organizes the transports into a defensive formation to buy them time to eliminate the planetary sorcerers. This occurs.

With the Warp once again available for use, the transports and Penitent Rising attempt to breach the Chaos fleet and bypass them for a safe escape. The Star Galleon, in a terrific display of bravado, manages to blast a huge hole in the enemy lines while taking tremendous structural damage. Kuzym realizes his duty, and has the Penitent deploy all attack craft in a desperate rescue mission, with fighters and bombers holding off enemy boarders while assault boats attempt to evacuate as many survivors from the Star Galleon as possible. After a brief skirmish with the few heretics onboard, they successfully rescue Commodore Derringer. During the skirmish, Vorden is able to download a part of the ship's data files and persuade the Star Galleon's enginseers to rig the ship's engine to overload. Our heroes dodge anti-craft fire as the explosion ripples through the void, and fly off into the sunset.

NEXT TIME, we'll see how the Commodore rewards us saving his life and preventing the capture of his ship! We'll find out what data was recovered! And most importantly, we'll do our damndest to see that the convoy makes it to their shrine!

[Tvtyrant]

I recently started getting into the Ork fluff for Warhammer 40k, and I have a question about their lifecycle.

An Ork releases their spores on some planet, and the spores create large underground fungi. These eventually create Squigs and Snotlings, with the Snotlings growing into Gretchen. The Snotlings herd the Squigs, and the Gretchen build a primitive settlement. Sometime after the Gretchen has created a settlement the underground fungus begins to create Orks, who take over the settlement and begin to live off of the existing system.

Two questions come to mind:
1. How long do the phases of this cycle usually take?
2. Do the Gretchen ever revolt against the freeloaders who rule over them? Some of them become Killa Kans and others make Grottanks, so I assume they could at least make a fight of it.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant

1. How long do the phases of this cycle usually take?

Never mentioned - not to my knowledge. But, Orks have been known to reinfest an area that's been given the 'all clear' in as little as a month.

Do the Gretchen ever revolt against the freeloaders who rule over them?

I believe they do. All the time. However, the revolts always end badly for the Grots.

[Brother Oni]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Never mentioned - not to my knowledge. But, Orks have been known to reinfest an area that's been given the 'all clear' in as little as a month.

Note that this is often dependent on local environment. Judging from the Cain series, the Valhallans, who live on an ice world, report that this cycle time is considerably longer (I keep on remembering a figure of 6 months, but I'll have to re-read for confirmation).

It would also depend if the 'all clear' signal also includes torching the entire underground fungus network. A sloppy job could mean that snotlings and squigs could pop up within days of the 'all clear'.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

I believe they do. All the time. However, the revolts always end badly for the Grots.

See also; the fluff from the Digganob expansion of the (long defunct) Gorkamorka game.

Gorkamorka is a Necromunda-style game, set on an Ork-infested world. One of the factions that you could play as? A party of Grots who were undertaking their own Communist Revolution against their capitalist Ork masters!

Whadda we want!?!" "TAGS!" "Whenda we wann'em!?" "NAH!!!"

.....I miss GW's sense of humour. There's little echoes of it in some books, like Codex: Orks and Ciaphas Cain, but it's a shame to see it go.

[Tvtyrant]

1. So a few days to a few months? They must run out of space extremely quickly Although the time it takes to start production of Orks doesn't really say how quickly they are produced, or how much space is devoted to each one.

2. I now want to play a Gretchen rebel army.

[GolemsVoice]

If they run out of space, they either go somewhere else, or they kill each other. More than usual.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Tvtyrant

1. So a few days to a few months?

Who said days? The least I know of is about a month, and that's in a particularly good climate for growing mushrooms (and as mentioned, on an ice world it can take up to six months). In Angel of Fire an Ork's blood is described as smelling like rotten vegetables.

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

If they run out of space, they either go somewhere else, or they kill each other. More than Just like usual.

Fixed.
It's natural for Orks to run out of space and/or resources. That's exactly the reason they fight each other.

[Hazzardevil]

Originally Posted by Wraith

$
.....I miss GW's sense of humour. There's little echoes of it in some books, like Codex: Orks and Ciaphas Cain, but it's a shame to see it go.

I've been told that Games Workshop stuff goes in circles, a decade of serious, a decade of black comedy/awesome. I don't know which the last decade was, but black humour may be making a return now.

[bluntpencil]

Originally Posted by Hazzardevil

I've been told that Games Workshop stuff goes in circles, a decade of serious, a decade of black comedy/awesome. I don't know which the last decade was, but black humour may be making a return now.

They've not been around for enough decades to make such a statement...

[Platinius]

It would be no surprise to see all types of fresh Orcs and all their relatives nigh immediately after a sloppy purge, after all they mature underground and must be killed and burned while still in their "wombs" to be effectively exterminated from a region. If a mostly finished ork's surface fungi would be destroyed he might still emerge (even if less big and awesome).

[Tychris1]

So, does anyone know of any particular books/resources I can readabout Lucius the Eternal outside of the codex? Looking for inspiration for my slaaneshi army that will be lead by him.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Tychris1

So, does anyone know of any particular books/resources I can readabout Lucius the Eternal outside of the codex? Looking for inspiration for my slaaneshi army that will be lead by him.

In 40K, no.

In 30K, he appears at least once in all 3 of the first Horus Heresy novels, and then again he plays a fairly important role in Fulgrim and again in the short story Reflection Crack'd, and presumably again in Angel Exterminatus.

[Squark]

Soo.... Just noticed Steam is having a sale on THQ stuff... In particular, the Dawn of War franchise is 75% off. Does anyone have any reccomendations as far as Dawn of War I vs. Dawn of War II goes?

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Squark

Does anyone have any reccomendations as far as Dawn of War I vs. Dawn of War II goes?

Dawn of War I is a normal RTS. Build buildings. Pump out units. Select All. Attack. Only get it if you like RTSes. Because it's just like all the others.

Dawn of War II is a 'squad-based RTS/RPG', you have 4 units (or 11 men) each with their own separate skills and/or wargear when you get it you definitely need some sort of strategy to win and having the right wargear on your squads is essential (although it is obvious and hard to screw up). Dawn of War II isn't really like any other game that I can think of except for Company of Heroes - which is made by the same people, so that probably helps.

Original Campaign; Very repetitive as you go over the same maps again and again. Although you don't have to do that if you don't want to and you can just breeze through it bypassing optional stuff. Has a weird difficulty curve. Easy, Normal and Hard are all Easy. And 'Primarch' is basically impossible and very, very time-intensive.
Chaos Rising; Much, much better than the OC, but, it is continuity intensive to the OC. Has come under criticism and praise in that it's linear. You don't repeat maps and you don't screw around. However, you level up slower and you can't 'wargear farm'.

Retribution; Stand-alone. Do not need the others. The level-up system is far more simpler, the mission rewards actually force you to make proper decisions and all around is a better game than all the others, mechanics wise. And since it's a stand-alone, there's no reason you shouldn't get it. However, the campaign isn't particularly long, and the game has suffered massive criticism for the fact that while yes, it does have a campaign and unique characters and skills for six races, the story/campaign/missions are all the same.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Dawn of War I is a normal RTS. Build buildings. Pump out units. Select All. Attack. Only get it if you like RTSes. Because it's just like all the others.

To be fair, it does have the whole command-points listening-posts system (which it admittedly shares with CoH) but yeah. The upgrades for individual squads are nice.


Chaos Rising; Much, much better than the OC, but, it is continuity intensive to the OC. Has come under criticism and praise in that it's linear. You don't repeat maps and you don't screw around. However, you level up slower and you can't 'wargear farm'.

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Retribution; Stand-alone. Do not need the others. The level-up system is far more simpler, the mission rewards actually force you to make proper decisions and all around is a better game than all the others, mechanics wise. And since it's a stand-alone, there's no reason you shouldn't get it. However, the campaign isn't particularly long, and the game has suffered massive criticism for the fact that while yes, it does have a campaign and unique characters and skills for six races, the story/campaign/missions are all the same.

Yeah, the duplicate campaigns are lame. It's worth noting that Retribution's multiplayer is much closer to DoW 1's, minus the base-building aspects.

DoW2's campaign, however, I'd say is best compared to something more like Diablo- You have a handful of heroes with unique abilities, and you use these to blitz through hordes of enemies until you find a boss, picking up unique items and earning XP along the way.



Personally, I own retribution and all of the DoW1 expansions, and thoroughly enjoyed both.

[GolemsVoice]

I'd recommend them all, they're good games in their various genres. DoW is more or less a classical RTS, build a base, give the enemy what-for. Although it favours taking and holding command posts on the map over gathering ressources. I'd recommend it, though I like Company of Heroes better with the same system.

DoW II is almost nothing like the first part, but I'd say it's better. As other said, you've got four heroes with their squads and later a few more units and run around the map. More special abilities, boss fights, items to find and points to sink into abilities (you can make a squad shooty or melee-fighty, as you wish).

With 75% off, I'd say even if you don't totally like it, you can't really make big mistakes. They're good, solid games all around.

[Eldan]

To expand a bit:
In DoW 1, you have, originally, the Space Marines, Eldar, Orks and Chaos. Each has a few specializations. (Eldar can build invisible bases and teleport their buildings, orcs need to build up Waagh to build some things...). Instead of money, like in other RTSs, you have Requisition points, which you get from taking and holding certain points on a map, and energy, which you get from building generators. Campaign is Space Marines only.
Winter Assault adds the Imperial guard to the mix. Their thing is that their units can be moved inside buildings for better defence, and that they have tunnels connecting their buildings. Campaign is Imperial Guard.
Dark Crusade adds Necrons and Tau. Necrons are speical in that they don't need requisition points. Instead, their buildings build very slowly, and taking points speeds up all build times. Their units also regenerate, which makes them really annoying. I forgot what was special about the Tau. There's one campaign for each race, but they are all pretty similar, in that they are all thrown on an overworld map filled with standard missions to take territories.
Soulstorm I haven't played, but it's apparently quite bad. It adds air support for all races, Dark Eldar and Sisters.


DoW II is quite different. You don't command an army, you command space marines. Four squads of them, each with 1-5 men. You start with a commander, devastators, tactical marines and scouts, later you get a dreadnaught as well. Troops can be specialized with different weapons, terminator armour, jump packs, teleporters and things like that. It's quite fun, since your ten people walk around the map, killing hundreds of orcs and thousands of nids per mission, but it gets repetitive soon, since you need to defend three planets, and preventing nid and ork infestation means that you will have to do the same base defence missions half a dozen times. Bosses are also stupidly tough blocks of HP that will easily several orbital bombardments while being fired at with three plasma cannons.