Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten

[blueblade]

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

There's only two numbers we know for sure:

There is never enough Dakka, and there are always more Guardsmen.

That's fantastic. Early contender for next thread title?

[The Glyphstone]

But what if you start using Guardsmen as projectile weapons, i.e. Dakka?

[Trixie]

Speaking of Tau:

Spoiler

[Squark]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

But what if you start using Guardsmen as projectile weapons, i.e. Dakka?

That's kind of unstoppable force meets unmovable object, no?

Real question is how you're getting those guardsmen all into one place. You'd run into space constraints before you got enough guardsmen for enuff dakka. You'd need too much material to make your guardsman launcher.

EDIT: @Ninja wizard Pony: Oooh... Now that's a Cain novel I want to see.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Speaking of Tau:

Spoiler

NERDGASMS.

[GolemsVoice]

The problem is also that the Dakka each individual Guardsman provides is very limited. So while you have a theoretically infinite amount of Dakka, it would still not be ENOUGH. Because it could be infinte Dakka that's also stronger.

Real question is how you're getting those guardsmen all into one place. You'd run into space constraints before you got enough guardsmen for enuff dakka. You'd need too much material to make your guardsman launcher.

If there's one thing Guardsmen can do, it's standing in one place, tightly packed.

[Hazzardevil]

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

The problem is also that the Dakka each individual Guardsman provides is very limited. So while you have a theoretically infinite amount of Dakka, it would still not be ENOUGH. Because it could be infinte Dakka that's also stronger.

Guardsmen can be more Dakka Efficent than most armies though, you could fit more Guardsmen in an area than most races, the only ones I can think of that beats them off the top of my head in a space taken to Dakka contributed ratio is Eldar, Dark Eldar and Necrons.

Because Guardsmen can field Multilasers and Multi-meltas, which are some of the best dakka contributing weapons in 40K I can think of.

[DaedalusMkV]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Speaking of Tau:

Spoiler

Whut. Brain not... I don't even...


Do want. Do want now. I'll buy anything even vaguely Tau-related, but Cain too? Teaming up with the Tau again? And dat title? I be intrigued.

[Acanous]

CAIN! CAIN! CAIN!
Of course, the Chaos marines interpreted this as one of their own battle cries, and were quite surprised when the fanbase stormed Chapters and Indigo.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Speaking of Tau:

Spoiler

I had to Google that just to make sure it's legit. And it is, apparently. It would be...the second time Cain's had to deal with Tau? The synopsis on Amazon states that, spoilered just to be sure

Spoiler

he's coming in to fight the Tau and then Tyranids show up, so it's team-up time y'all. Thematically, that's not far off from his first encounter with the Tau and the Genestealer cult on that one planet I can't remember the name of. I sure hope it's not a rehash of that.

[shadow_archmagi]

How precisely are Sanctioned Psykers designated?

In a game of Rogue Trader, I briefly contemplated (but ultimately rejected for unrelated reasons) taking a rank in Awakened Psyker, and I wondered if rather than trying to hide his talent, it might be safer to simply declare that of course he'd gone with the Black Ships when they called and been declared completely safe.

After all, if there's one thing the Imperium is famous for, it's having paper trails be more trouble than they're worth, so I'm assuming he could bluff his way past just about anybody.

On the other hand, it wouldn't hold up under direct investigation, and if anyone's likely to come under direct investigation by the Inquisition, it'd be a Rogue Trader.

[Wraith]

Psykers are captured/contained in the Black Ships and brought to Terra in a process overseen and organised by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica.

These guys picks out suitable candidates - based on power potential, personality and a couple of other more eldritch things - and submits them to the Schola Psykana where the Psyker is trained for whatever duties are deemed appropriate. To be "Sanctioned" means that you have completed your training and are released to assume your role in the service of the Imperium, as you have been judged safe - a term which is relative with regards to Psykers, of course - from Warp Taint or risk of implosion.

Basically, you would have been picked out of a line by the Master of the Adeptus or one of his 700 close advisors, and sent to boot camp. Had you not been noticed - for whatever reason, though usually resilience to the influence of Chaos and 'stability' of personality/power rank highly - you would have been sent to the Choir in order to feed the Emperor.

It is, perhaps, a surprisingly personal journey given how most other Imperial institutions recruit facelessly, en masse. All Imperial Psykers (excepting a few that end up in Inquisitorial retinues....) are hand picked for their talent and potential.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

How precisely are Sanctioned Psykers designated?

Typically by displaying this icon,

Spoiler

very prominently on their person. Typically the mark (or some form of it) is branded onto them, sometimes on the forehead, but psykers slated for the Inquisition might have the brand on the sole of their foot or somewhere not-obvious. It's a symbol of graduation from the Scholastica Psykana, or validity that this psyker is both powerful and has undergone training and is safe. Very powerful ones typically carry a staff, the most powerful psykers are most obviously spotted by the fact that they've overcome the emaciating effects of using the Warp for extended periods.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Typically by displaying this icon,

Spoiler

very prominently on their person. Typically the mark (or some form of it) is branded onto them, sometimes on the forehead, but psykers slated for the Inquisition might have the brand on the sole of their foot or somewhere not-obvious. It's a symbol of graduation from the Scholastica Psykana, or validity that this psyker is both powerful and has undergone training and is safe. Very powerful ones typically carry a staff, the most powerful psykers are most obviously spotted by the fact that they've overcome the emaciating effects of using the Warp for extended periods.

Just a brand? That seems like it'd be easy enough to mimic. Why don't more Psykers just get a tattoo?

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

Just a brand? That seems like it'd be easy enough to mimic. Why don't more Psykers just get a tattoo?

Probably because you'd have to
A) Be a psyker who escaped the Black Ships in the first place, which means being either very weak or very lucky.
B) Survive to adulthood without losing control of your powers and blowing your own head off or being eaten by a demon, bereft of the training the Scholastica Psykana provides.
C) Be willing to forge your credentials of Scholastica approval in the risk (small, but existent) risk of horrible, awful and fatal punishment if caught.
D) Find an employer unlikely to check those credentials.

[DaedalusMkV]

Yeah, most Sanctionites are serving with the Imperial Guard, the Inquisition or directly in the chain of command of the Psykana. Independent Sanctionites are extremely rare, and would gather a lot of attention. Our hypothetical Rogue Trader-supporting Sanction-faker is in a rare position of actually having an employer that might reasonably make use of an independent Sanctionite, and powerful enough to discourage investigation. For your average unsanctioned witch, it'd be a lot harder to find employment, much less avoid inquiry from Inquisitorial agents about a Sanctioned Psyker just mooching around the underhive somewhere not doing anything productive for the Imperium.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

Just a brand? That seems like it'd be easy enough to mimic. Why don't more Psykers just get a tattoo?

First, you need to know what the brand looks like, and, more importantly, the people around you need to know what the brand actually means so they don't throw stones at you.

Second, you don't really get to be an 'Independent' Psychic. That's not a thing. An Independent Psyker is clearly a runaway, a shirker of duties, and not to be trusted. You should throw rocks at them.

1. Black Ships come to your planet.
2. You get dropped off at the Astra Telepathica, and some guy you don't even know says you're either useless and you get fed to the Emperor, you're barely usable, and you taken in front of the Emperor, blinded, and used as an Astropath, or, you're one of the extremely lucky ones and you're slated to have 'potential' and you get to go to school and have a real life.

3. While at school, you essentially get made into a slave. Either to the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and rarely, the Arbites. Maybe, just maybe, you get bought by a Family (say, of Rogue Traders), or, perhaps you're already from a Family and your family is influential and/or rich enough to acquire you back when you graduate. But, you'd best be serving a real purpose, or the ATS can just ship you back to the Guard.

Sometimes, being 'ported to the Inquisition gets you hard-wired into a Space Station and you get to be the klaxon for incoming Tyranids. It's not all glamour and fun.

However, for your players, it should backfire when they come someone who really was on the Blackships and had knives in their brain. Make it a Primaris Psyker to boot. Someone who has had his power so long, and stared down the Abyss so many times, that's he's used to it and can now start lifting weights and brawling again, so that when he shuts you down mentally, he beats the poop out of you.

The 'brand' is essentially a mark of honour. You were in the Blackships, you thwarted fate and were allowed to live. You went to school, you watched your friends die by watching them do exercises that their master told them to do 'just to see if they could'. You earned the Brand.
Someone who didn't earn it...Didn't earn that right...

Yeah.

[Borgh]

I'm reminded of the Thats a Paddlin image here.

One thing that has always bugged me a bit: It is stated in various points of the fluff (last edition, maybe this edition, the IG book IIRC) that the Imperium is too large to travel from one end to the other in a single lifetime. Yet even the furthest easternmost fringes (ultramar and beyond) have astropaths aplenty.
So black ships collecting from those areas must make a hell of a beeline towards terra or deliver fifty year old psykers. Similarly, if the Scolastia on terra wants to send a new batch of Astropaths replace the ones driven insane because it is Tuesday then in the end they will deliver old guys without much experience.

So either there are regional soulbinding centres, reachable with a few years of travel and capable of McGuffening the presence of the emperor across half the imperium or it doesn't make sense.

TLDR: the warp did it

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Borgh

So black ships collecting from those areas must make a hell of a beeline towards terra or deliver fifty year old psykers.

The Black Ships take everyone who registers as a psyker. Regardless of how old. If they've already somehow managed to control their powers, they can be immediately branded and sent on their way to whatever Hell awaits them, or they get fed to the Emperor. The Emperor cares not how old you are.

TLDR: the warp did it

Yep. Exactly. There are several mentions of the fact that time moves differently in the Warp. People can go for years in that place and not age a day. Of course, you can be in the Warp for a few days and age several months. It's a crap-shoot.

Point is, we're expected to take the fluff at it's word. Doesn't make sense? Doesn't matter. It's fiction. It works. Why? Because. That's why.

[Squark]

That being said, I could certainly see the outer edges of the imperium having several astropaths inbound by the time one actually arrives.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by Borgh

One thing that has always bugged me a bit: It is stated in various points of the fluff (last edition, maybe this edition, the IG book IIRC) that the Imperium is too large to travel from one end to the other in a single lifetime.

What bugs me is that for every time I hear "The Imperium is too large to cross. To go to Terra is a huge undertaking that not many people have the resources to do" I also hear "Travel time and distance are unrelated. Don't bother looking at the map, it's essentially worthless."

[LCP]

Originally Posted by Borgh

One thing that has always bugged me a bit: It is stated in various points of the fluff (last edition, maybe this edition, the IG book IIRC) that the Imperium is too large to travel from one end to the other in a single lifetime. Yet even the furthest easternmost fringes (ultramar and beyond) have astropaths aplenty.
So black ships collecting from those areas must make a hell of a beeline towards terra or deliver fifty year old psykers. Similarly, if the Scolastia on terra wants to send a new batch of Astropaths replace the ones driven insane because it is Tuesday then in the end they will deliver old guys without much experience.

So either there are regional soulbinding centres, reachable with a few years of travel and capable of McGuffening the presence of the emperor across half the imperium or it doesn't make sense.

Chuck 'em in a stasis coffin? You probably need to take measures to contain them anyway, if you're stuffing your ship with un-sanctioned psykers. Plus, if psykery's a one-in-however-many-billion mutation and you're sifting whole populations for psykers on a 50-year voyage, you probably don't want to take a risk that the 12 year old you pick up on Backwaterus Prime will die of a heart attack at the age of 42.

The crew (at least, the ones who can't afford juvenat treatments) will grow old and die on the duration of the tour, but the psykers stay frozen in their tubes. You'd also get the bonus side-effect that everyone the psyker knew is long dead by the time they get thawed out, so they have no surviving ties to their old life.

[GolemsVoice]

There IS however such a thing as a black market psyker, which usually means two things: you're a wretch who does the psychical equivalent to prostitution, used for cheap and not very complicated services, or you're a powerful name, recognized as one who has both the power and the cunning to do or even lead complex operations, in which case you can demand quite a sum.

EDIT:

What bugs me is that for every time I hear "The Imperium is too large to cross. To go to Terra is a huge undertaking that not many people have the resources to do" I also hear "Travel time and distance are unrelated. Don't bother looking at the map, it's essentially worthless."

Maybe this essentially means that it is to large to cross with any kind of mundane means, as few people actually have their own ship, and must rely on others for transport. Which means they have to take the detours that their host wishes to make, in case of, say, a trading vessel, those could be quite large ones.
Also, the ships in which most people travel are probably not top-of-the line like the Black Ships. Does the quality of the warp reactor affect the speed in the Warp, and can such a thing even be influenced?

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

What bugs me is that for every time I hear "The Imperium is too large to cross. To go to Terra is a huge undertaking that not many people have the resources to do" I also hear "Travel time and distance are unrelated. Don't bother looking at the map, it's essentially worthless."

Probably because both are true.

Resources being 'means and opportunity'. You need to understand that the vast majority of the Imperium never leaves their home planet. They don't have permission to do so. They are literally not allowed to leave their factory-slave job, and even if they could, what else would they be able to do on their two-Thrones-a-day job? Maybe if they were working for 50 years (hah! People in the Imperium don't live that long), and they get thrown out of the factory, they might be able to afford a trip to Terra. Maybe.

Which brings us to the next point; How do people even get there? How do you even get off your planet? Who is going to take you to Terra? Nobody 'just goes' to Terra. It's kind of a huge deal and is going to cost you a lot of money. Going to Terra involves cutting through huge swathes of red tape and TSA-checks turned up to 11, and no random passer-by starship is going to be up for that, and, if they are, it's highly unlikely that they've got time to pick up strangers.

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

Does the quality of the warp reactor affect the speed in the Warp, and can such a thing even be influenced?

Yes, and yes. Warp Storms will significantly increase travel time. A reckless Navigator can significantly decrease travel time.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

Does the quality of the warp reactor affect the speed in the Warp, and can such a thing even be influenced?

Yes. There are several alternate engine types in Rogue Trader that reduce duration of warp travel, and the quality of your navigator (and anything that aids the navigator, such as improved star charts, travelling a known warp route, etc) can also strongly influence travel times.

EDIT: Crossposting from the Warhammer RPG thread:

I'm planning to include an awakening Necron force in the RT game I run. Most of what I know about Necrons comes from the Dawn of War games and the wiki. What are some descriptions of buried Necron forces in other media, that might go into more detail about the process of a tomb world awakening, and how many Necrons are generally in one, what kind of a threat this is, etc.

[GolemsVoice]

Which brings us to the next point; How do people even get there? How do you even get off your planet? Who is going to take you to Terra? Nobody 'just goes' to Terra. It's kind of a huge deal and is going to cost you a lot of money. Going to Terra involves cutting through huge swathes of red tape and TSA-checks turned up to 11, and no random passer-by starship is going to be up for that, and, if they are, it's highly unlikely that they've got time to pick up strangers.

It is however not uncommon for entire families to go on a pilgrimage, in the hope that one of their descendants might one day tread the holy soil of Terra.

[shadow_archmagi]

Originally Posted by GolemsVoice

It is however not uncommon for entire families to go on a pilgrimage, in the hope that one of their descendants might one day tread the holy soil of Terra.

And, again, the implication is always that it is the journey that takes forever, not the red tape. I suppose it's possible that they're spending years waiting for Charter Captains to inch them closer to Terra, system by system, sometimes waiting for generations between ships...

[Tome]

Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi

EDIT: Crossposting from the Warhammer RPG thread:

I'm planning to include an awakening Necron force in the RT game I run. Most of what I know about Necrons comes from the Dawn of War games and the wiki. What are some descriptions of buried Necron forces in other media, that might go into more detail about the process of a tomb world awakening, and how many Necrons are generally in one, what kind of a threat this is, etc.

The Necron fluff has had massive retcons since the DoW games. I'd advise looking up some more recent stuff to get an idea of what they're like now.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Tome

The Necron fluff has had massive retcons since the DoW games. I'd advise looking up some more recent stuff to get an idea of what they're like now.

You might even say they...





got Retcronned.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

You could use the time-honored tactic of "there are so many Tomb Worlds, this one is a unique case because of system malfunctions/a crazy Lord/enemy attack/Eldar sabotage" and then put whatever description you fancy.